So I've read through the whole thread now and I wish to share my current perspective on the matter. Perhaps there can be something of value for Lys and Starshine here as their living situation sounds at least a bit similar to mine (rural). Admittedly I'm living under quite different circumstances than I would assume most peeps on the forum here, tending towards quite a minimalist/"hippie" approach to how we conduct our day-to-day.
So I will start with laying out a simple overview of my living situation to set the backdrop for the environment my kids are growing up in. We live up in a valley, accessible only by 4x4 vehicles or tractors, about 1.5 km from the village we're connected to (population of village between 250-300). We have a loosely defined "community" around us, currently consisting of 6 separate households, total number of kids between all of us is 12, ages ranging from 1 to 8. We live separate lives but when bigger projects or 'transporting endeavors' (materials, animals etc.) are afoot we help each other out. Most of us also receive volunteers so summers especially see a lot of social activity, as we periodically get together for work and socializing. Most of us live within a 1 km radius of each other so we frequently visit each other and the kids play together. We don't necessarily see eye to eye on all aspects of how to raise our kids but two things everyone agrees on are: no vaccines and no school.
Our household is the only one in our community that is not connected to the power grid, as such we have solar panels and a battery to store the energy. We use the electricity for charging power tools, charging phones and computers and keeping lights on. We don't have a fridge or any other bigger appliances. We also don't have running water and fetch water for drinking from a well on our property. Water for washing ourselves and clothes is rainwater that we collect. In winter we heat with a wood burning stove.
As for the original thought behind the thread ("thoughts on having children"), I can definitely get behind both sides of the arguments presented thus far. The way I've lived my life thus far has been what most people would call impulsive or spontaneous. This has led me to make quite a few mistakes along the way, but consequently it has provided me with my biggest lessons also. It's a natural inclination that I have and as long as I'm not endangering someone else, I don't see it as an issue, as it has on multiple occasions forced me to grow and learn at a quick rate. This tendency to spontaneity certainly played a part in the conception of our first-born. As a rule of thumb, I don't regret (to the full extent of the meaning of the word) anything that I've done in my life, as I have always seen everything (even before being exposed to the C's) as learning experiences. That being said though, I should have contemplated the ramifications of the changes a child will bring. Being the spontaneous soul that I am, I've come to adopt a 'thinking on my feet' attitude and always thinking in terms of solutions instead of problems. I rarely dwell on the past and as issues present themselves, I immediately start looking for solutions.
With that in mind, I quickly realized the need for me to grow up as we were expecting our first child, and took many steps in that direction, those steps eventually led us to choose the lifestyle we now are living; keeping the kids outside the reach of the clutches of society, teaching them what we perceive to be the basics of living, aiming towards more self-sufficiency, respecting and experiencing nature and the natural world etc.
Returning again to the
why anyone would want kids, outside the obvious biological and bloodline-perpetuating factors, I have to admit I can't give a good answer. As some have mentioned, millions of kids are being born around the world so there's no lack and no danger of humanity not continuing because of there not being enough. As for many of the arguments containing all the
"what if" scenarios, I can't really get behind any of them. What if the kid is a special needs kid? What if the kid suffers from some conditions or allergies? What if they will grow up to be a psychopath? What if, what if, what if...? This can be put on the tab of my spontaneous personality but these "what if"s are nothing I generally give credence to. There are a thousand potential what if's happening every day and every moment of our lives. What if the plane I'm to take crashes? What if I'm in a car accident? What if I get food poisoning? I'm completely aware that most people don't engage with the world in the same way I do and like to have a general plan of action for every possible contingency. I'm not saying to live in a bubble of wishful thinking where "everything will be just fine", but this tendency to "
what if'ing" ones way through life is something I see drains a lot of energy from people and hinders them from living life to the fullest.
With that in mind, has there
ever been a good time to have children throughout history? Haven't we been food for the moon and under 4DSTS control for as long as recorded history and beyond? Might be that we will reach a culmination point in our lifetime but should that mean that we should just stop trying? I can get behind the argument that this precious time should be used to work on oneself as much as possible, but that work could very well involve having children for some of us.
in my own experience you face the programs you were exposed to as a child, you can see yourself acting as your mother with your own child, I think this is most horrible, because then you start to discover your own programs that your parents made of you, well, not only yours, but also your partner's programs about parenting, and in turn if you are still very close to your biological family they will try to teach you how to raise your child. I think this is a difficult part, about observing yourself and do posible to modifying and cutting those programs. But I think you find that out when you're already inside the experience, in my case, I don't think I would have ever realized that if it wasn't for my daughter, at least, not that quick.
As the C's told Laura about choosing a "fast-track" approach to her life, I believe for some (not all) of us, kids will provide that additional push needed on a soul level to have the best possibility of advancing. What my first-born brought me was a transformation of my whole approach to life in a very short time-span. I went from "alcoholic street musician wasting his life in a tourist trap" to "prospective homesteader" in a time-span of less than 2 years. And as for the quote above, there's no clearer mirror to gaze into to discover your own sh*t than raising a kid. I do believe we can also discover our own programs even without having children and it's definitely not a requirement, but I do think that for certain stubborn individuals (me) it can be an invaluable catalyst that motivates and inspires one to Work in earnest.
In the process of the first pregnancy, both by girlfriend and I naturally discussed the topic of the birth itself and how we would go about it. We started researching birth and that of course led us to research vaccines which naturally opened the rabbit-hole of the whole medical industry. Needless to say we learned a lot and ultimately decided on having the birth at home, unassisted. For a more comprehensive understanding of the ins and outs of that experience, you probably should read the "birth-report" my girlfriend wrote on it, but as for my part, I can say it's quite an experience.
After having read
The Myth of Sanity I've come to truly appreciate and think differently about our childhood (and adult) traumas. I find it horrible that what we consider a "normal" birth experience is so far removed from the sacred event I believe it could and should be. Imagine emerging from the warmth and safety of the womb only to be greeted by strangers in a sterile unnatural environment, many times being taken into the arms of a doctor, in worst cases even denied access to the mother for prolonged periods of time. Even more so now with the covid-psychosis raging rampant, I've read horror stories of mothers testing positive, not allowed to even spend those crucial first moments (both for baby
and mother) bonding with the baby.
Of course I'm not condemning the whole thing, as there definitely are cases where the hospital ends up being a life-saving institution when everything doesn't go well. I'm also not advocating anybody to attempt a free-birth without thoroughly preparing and researching the whole thing. The birth of our second child proceeded in the same way, in the house where we now live; in a location not accessible by an ambulance if things would've gone awry. I can understand some could see this as careless, but in my perspective we rightly exercise our free will to bring our child into the world under the best possible conditions, and we had faith in our capabilities to handle the situation. And the prolonged labor process notwithstanding, everything went by without any complications.
To kind of continue on what people nowadays perceive as "normal" in regards to the child rearing process, as one researches the topic of both birth and infancy, I think it becomes apparent that we have a very skewed perception of what it's 'supposed' to be like. People force their toddlers to sleep in a separate bed and even in a separate room from even before the age of 1. If we give credence to the idea that early infancy shapes our most fundamental beliefs about life itself, we can see how a child that is in worst cases left to cry itself to sleep (as I know many "modern" parents opt to do) will develop some quite disturbing beliefs about what life is all about. The child cries out for the universe to provide it with some comfort and nurture, but the universe (the parents) opt for a kind of "tough love" approach, and I can only imagine the kind of core beliefs this plants in the infants mind.
About how to raise kids in general, I don't claim to know what the actual best approach is. This is something I'm learning every day, and by discussing with the other parents here, and by trial and error, the approach keeps evolving and changing along with by beliefs about it. I think every child is different and there's no universal blueprint on how to do it, but a thing that has gotten stuck in my mind is; that everything we do to the child is in preparation for it to become an independent and autonomous entity, being able to take care of itself. Ideally I would be able to drop my kid at the age of 18 anywhere in the world and have faith that he or she could find their way and take care of themselves. All this while attempting to instill an understanding of STO into them.
A bit on our approach as it is right now; our house is small and we don't have separate rooms, downstairs is our kitchen/living room area and upstairs is the bedroom. We sleep all in the same bed (actually all of the families living in our 'community' do this) and when the kids eventually (hopefully ;)) will express a wish to sleep in their own bed, we will create a solution. Probably somebody would want to make some kind of argument for "attachment" or the like, but I don't really see it like that. We want our kids to always feel that they are safe with us and are accepted for who they are. During the day (especially in summer time) our kids are very independent and can play outside for hours on end, alone or with the neighbors' kids.
When it comes to 'education', we plan to let the children provide the initiative in regards to
what they want to learn, and then we will provide material and resources to explore those interests. Our oldest (5 this year) speaks 4 languages and is showing interest for more, helps with gardening when the task is simple enough, asks questions about why people in the city are wearing masks, to which we don't censor anything, and try to present the information in a way a 4 year old can digest it.
I can certainly get behind the more "negative" comments in this thread as well, and I'm definitely not seeing any bright foreseeable future for the world, at least not before things get worse first. The thing is though, that I am in this situation and nothing will change that, so I will continue to try my best to provide a safe environment for them, and for that, at least our geographical location is close to ideal. Would I change the past knowing what I know now? Perhaps, but I'm not equipped to do so, so any regretting and complaining is counterproductive. I can only work with what I have at the moment and try to make the best of it.
My two cents for the time being.
