What programs have YOU discovered?

[Twisted]

Insecurities: Lacking in self-esteem and self-worth, don't really know where I belong, and often wonder WHO exactly I am. This might have something to do with my being a Pisces, and thus seem to have different "personalities" when I am with different people. When I'm alone I don't really know who I am.

Laziness: I want to do so much, maybe too much at one time, and don't know where to start, so I just don't. Or I do start with something, but then soon want to do something else and never finish what I originally started. In the end I have several unfinished projects, and no will to do anything about it.

Negativity: A program that has been triggered after years of positivity and hopes, just to be let down in the end. So now I always think the worst thing about everything so I am prepared, and can have the ability to be positively surprised if things end up better than expected. This negativity now also seem to spill over in small everyday happenings.

There's surely more, but this is what I have so far.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Insecurities: Lacking in self-esteem and self-worth, don't really know where I belong, and often wonder WHO exactly I am. This might have something to do with my being a Pisces, and thus seem to have different "personalities" when I am with different people. When I'm alone I don't really know who I am.

I wouldn't get too caught up in identifying with zodiac signs. I'm a Pisces also, BTW. Actually, those are just your different "I"s coming out. Have you by chance read "In Search of the Miraculous"?

 

[tykes]

Insecurities: Lacking in self-esteem and self-worth, don't really know where I belong, and often wonder WHO exactly I am. This might have something to do with my being a Pisces, and thus seem to have different "personalities" when I am with different people. When I'm alone I don't really know who I am.

Laziness: I want to do so much, maybe too much at one time, and don't know where to start, so I just don't. Or I do start with something, but then soon want to do something else and never finish what I originally started. In the end I have several unfinished projects, and no will to do anything about it.

Negativity: A program that has been triggered after years of positivity and hopes, just to be let down in the end. So now I always think the worst thing about everything so I am prepared, and can have the ability to be positively surprised if things end up better than expected. This negativity now also seem to spill over in small everyday happenings.

There's surely more, but this is what I have so far.

Whoa...i have each and every of that programs among others like a terrible fear of ridicule, a feeling of guilt for being feckless and anxiety to balance my life right away, sometimes even desperation. Also i have notice since i started to practice EE program, in certain circumstances of stress i have a nervous reaction, my body start to tremble and i can´t help it.

 

[Twisted]

Insecurities: Lacking in self-esteem and self-worth, don't really know where I belong, and often wonder WHO exactly I am. This might have something to do with my being a Pisces, and thus seem to have different "personalities" when I am with different people. When I'm alone I don't really know who I am.

I wouldn't get too caught up in identifying with zodiac signs. I'm a Pisces also, BTW. Actually, those are just your different "I"s coming out. Have you by chance read "In Search of the Miraculous"?

I know I shouldn't, and it's not like I let it run my life, but I don't know.. I've always been interested in the zodiac signs and how they seem to fit so well. I have not read the book book you mentioned. I'll look it up :)

 

[John G]

Insecurities: Lacking in self-esteem and self-worth, don't really know where I belong, and often wonder WHO exactly I am. This might have something to do with my being a Pisces, and thus seem to have different "personalities" when I am with different people. When I'm alone I don't really know who I am.

I wouldn't get too caught up in identifying with zodiac signs. I'm a Pisces also, BTW. Actually, those are just your different "I"s coming out. Have you by chance read "In Search of the Miraculous"?

I know I shouldn't, and it's not like I let it run my life, but I don't know.. I've always been interested in the zodiac signs and how they seem to fit so well. I have not read the book book you mentioned. I'll look it up :)

In Jungian terms, Pisces is a Feeling Perceiver. Since your full Jungian personality comes from three of these "sign" personalities, there's a 25% chance that you will identify with your sign just from probabilities. The one word I use for Feeling Perceiver is Harmonizer. It's like we can fit everywhere but not quite in the same way as the "natives". We have quite well developed little Is on call. I'm nowhere near a quantum physicist but I can play one really well on the Internet. I'm nowhere near a personality theorist but I even write papers in that field (the editor once asked me who the real me was).

I don't drink at all except for a rare wine at special events but I used to stay at a bar for hours with my father slowly nursing the White Zinfandel and 7ups the bartender suggested for me. I lasted 18 years at IBM even though my first manager told me the squeaky wheel gets the grease, suggesting I didn't squeak enough, wasn't political enough. My 11 year old son has to tune my guitar for me, yet music forums are littered with me. I love this place with all my heart yet I can't quite fit here either like a "native". The whole idea of "fitting" has something wrong with it, but it's sitting there in the lower centers nevertheless.

 

[Beau]

In Jungian terms, Pisces is a Feeling Perceiver. Since your full Jungian personality comes from three of these "sign" personalities, there's a 25% chance that you will identify with your sign just from probabilities. The one word I use for Feeling Perceiver is Harmonizer. It's like we can fit everywhere but not quite in the same way as the "natives". We have quite well developed little Is on call. I'm nowhere near a quantum physicist but I can play one really well on the Internet. I'm nowhere near a personality theorist but I even write papers in that field (the editor once asked me who the real me was).

I don't drink at all except for a rare wine at special events but I used to stay at a bar for hours with my father slowly nursing the White Zinfandel and 7ups the bartender suggested for me. I lasted 18 years at IBM even though my first manager told me the squeaky wheel gets the grease, suggesting I didn't squeak enough, wasn't political enough. My 11 year old son has to tune my guitar for me, yet music forums are littered with me. I love this place with all my heart yet I can't quite fit here either like a "native". The whole idea of "fitting" has something wrong with it, but it's sitting there in the lower centers nevertheless.

That doesn't sound like a Pisces thing. Sounds more like a "Bluelamp's specific personality" issue.

 

[Olivier]

Hello all,

There is a program of mine that seems quite “tricky”. I guess this thread is the right place to discuss it :
It is a kind of occasional attraction / repulsion towards failure. I identified it from professional environment, especially after a four year experience with a toxic boss, who was depending on me for his successes, but was constantly blaming me (for instance if I asked for a day off to take care of my children’s health, he would say something like “you always take days off when it is imperative that you be here because I’m on vacation”).
I came very quickly to distrust him, because he would use anything you tell him against you behind your back, but voicing my dissatisfaction was not an option because I was not confident in the upper hierarchy either (or is it a make nice/fear of retaliation program at work ?).

So my attitude became a stop and go drive towards failure : for a while I would not care for any project deadlines, nor would I deal with urgent issues, in the (semi-conscious / wishful) hope that failure would make my unease evident. However, just before the deadline, or just before failure would occur, I would panic, work like crazy to get things back on track, as the super-powerful emergency “failure is not an option” program would kick into action.

Thinking of it in retrospect, I already had this program in school, where I had an surprising number of “close calls”, with a trajectory for failure ending each time with a last minute reversal (this is true from high school to my engineer’s degree). I don’t remember having this program before I was 11 or 12.

Emotionally, I have had a mixed feeling each time, with incredible relief from the close call, and at the same time some deep feeling of sadness. I think that this sadness has something to do with the fact that those endeavour I’ve been tempted to fail have always been endeavours I’ve not freely chosen from the start, but they were imposed on me by either my parents (school) or the corporation (professional) without my deep agreement, but my “make nice” program would not let me voice my discontentment.

I must also add that when looking back honestly at these situations, I have also learned a lot from doing some of those things without my deep agreement (for instance, my science background is something I value, but learning scientific rigor was a real inner fight for I had no inclination towards it, being an imaginative and dreamy child). So I’m still unsure if this is not simply a laziness program (but somehow this doesn’t seem to fit emotionally. This occasional drive towards failure is more than a lack of will to succeed, this has more to do with trying to “default” from a surface agreement).
I could also be that the first cases (in school) were just a laziness program that was fought by my parents for my later benefit (learning scientific method for instance), but that it became a refuge behaviour when facing a toxic environment, thus building a new twisted program from an old simple one.

Regards.

 

[Rich]

Hello all,

There is a program of mine that seems quite “tricky”. I guess this thread is the right place to discuss it :
It is a kind of occasional attraction / repulsion towards failure. I identified it from professional environment, especially after a four year experience with a toxic boss, who was depending on me for his successes, but was constantly blaming me (for instance if I asked for a day off to take care of my children’s health, he would say something like “you always take days off when it is imperative that you be here because I’m on vacation”).
I came very quickly to distrust him, because he would use anything you tell him against you behind your back, but voicing my dissatisfaction was not an option because I was not confident in the upper hierarchy either (or is it a make nice/fear of retaliation program at work ?).

So my attitude became a stop and go drive towards failure : for a while I would not care for any project deadlines, nor would I deal with urgent issues, in the (semi-conscious / wishful) hope that failure would make my unease evident. However, just before the deadline, or just before failure would occur, I would panic, work like crazy to get things back on track, as the super-powerful emergency “failure is not an option” program would kick into action.

Thinking of it in retrospect, I already had this program in school, where I had an surprising number of “close calls”, with a trajectory for failure ending each time with a last minute reversal (this is true from high school to my engineer’s degree). I don’t remember having this program before I was 11 or 12.

Emotionally, I have had a mixed feeling each time, with incredible relief from the close call, and at the same time some deep feeling of sadness. I think that this sadness has something to do with the fact that those endeavour I’ve been tempted to fail have always been endeavours I’ve not freely chosen from the start, but they were imposed on me by either my parents (school) or the corporation (professional) without my deep agreement, but my “make nice” program would not let me voice my discontentment.

I must also add that when looking back honestly at these situations, I have also learned a lot from doing some of those things without my deep agreement (for instance, my science background is something I value, but learning scientific rigor was a real inner fight for I had no inclination towards it, being an imaginative and dreamy child). So I’m still unsure if this is not simply a laziness program (but somehow this doesn’t seem to fit emotionally. This occasional drive towards failure is more than a lack of will to succeed, this has more to do with trying to “default” from a surface agreement).
I could also be that the first cases (in school) were just a laziness program that was fought by my parents for my later benefit (learning scientific method for instance), but that it became a refuge behaviour when facing a toxic environment, thus building a new twisted program from an old simple one.

Regards.

Hi Olivier, What you describe is very similar to programs that I've battled with. The introduction post you received regarding the "Big Five" psychology books mentions Trapped in The Mirror by Elan Golomb. There are a couple of case studies in that book that I found very useful in understanding a similar attraction to self-destructive behaviour. Your self-analysis is pretty accurate and, if you haven't yet had the chance, I'd thoroughly recommend the reading for some thought-provoking factors that may provide further explanation.

 

[John G]

In Jungian terms, Pisces is a Feeling Perceiver. Since your full Jungian personality comes from three of these "sign" personalities, there's a 25% chance that you will identify with your sign just from probabilities. The one word I use for Feeling Perceiver is Harmonizer. It's like we can fit everywhere but not quite in the same way as the "natives". We have quite well developed little Is on call. I'm nowhere near a quantum physicist but I can play one really well on the Internet. I'm nowhere near a personality theorist but I even write papers in that field (the editor once asked me who the real me was).

I don't drink at all except for a rare wine at special events but I used to stay at a bar for hours with my father slowly nursing the White Zinfandel and 7ups the bartender suggested for me. I lasted 18 years at IBM even though my first manager told me the squeaky wheel gets the grease, suggesting I didn't squeak enough, wasn't political enough. My 11 year old son has to tune my guitar for me, yet music forums are littered with me. I love this place with all my heart yet I can't quite fit here either like a "native". The whole idea of "fitting" has something wrong with it, but it's sitting there in the lower centers nevertheless.

That doesn't sound like a Pisces thing. Sounds more like a "Bluelamp's specific personality" issue.

Well I did go into more an INFP than a generic XXFP of Pisces. I consider Pisces to be an FP mainly for its water and mutable descriptors. Most all personality model descriptions in my opinion are off a little to the left or a little to the right of center. That's why it's difficult even empirically to compare different personality models. Coincidently, I am an INFP Pisces.

edit: I also should add that Astrology considers the water and earth symbols to be introverted, which interestingly is what the Enneagram does too even though actual human beings can be introvert/extravert independent of the other traits. Thus my INFP-heavy description isn't overly bad for the IXFP Pisces.

 

[Beau]

Well, not to belabor the point, but what I was trying to say was that the examples you gave didn't seem to me to be related to a Pisces mentality, more that they were quirks of your personality that weren't really examples of what a specific zodiac sign might exemplify. The Jungian personality indicators are also a corn of mine. I see them as tidy little boxes with which society attempts to place people in. We all can be introverted at times and if we feel comfortable we can become extroverted. Take your example of being highly active in music forums. Same as with being intuitive or perceptive. Anyone can be like that at one point or another, but it doesn't mean that it becomes some sort of classification for them. OSIT.

 

[John G]

Well, not to belabor the point, but what I was trying to say was that the examples you gave didn't seem to me to be related to a Pisces mentality, more that they were quirks of your personality that weren't really examples of what a specific zodiac sign might exemplify. The Jungian personality indicators are also a corn of mine. I see them as tidy little boxes with which society attempts to place people in. We all can be introverted at times and if we feel comfortable we can become extroverted. Take your example of being highly active in music forums. Same as with being intuitive or perceptive. Anyone can be like that at one point or another, but it doesn't mean that it becomes some sort of classification for them. OSIT.

I tend to think of those quirks as negative extremes for water and mutable. Extremes don't always show up in descriptions though it's actually what you want to look at if you are building a model. In addition to born with bias, you can certainly mature in traits you are biased towards or against. I'm heavily biased towards F (feeling) but since I'm a male electrical engineer/programmer, there's a sense in which my F is underdeveloped and my T (thinking) is developed.

 

[Olivier]

Hi Olivier, What you describe is very similar to programs that I've battled with. The introduction post you received regarding the "Big Five" psychology books mentions Trapped in The Mirror by Elan Golomb. There are a couple of case studies in that book that I found very useful in understanding a similar attraction to self-destructive behaviour. Your self-analysis is pretty accurate and, if you haven't yet had the chance, I'd thoroughly recommend the reading for some thought-provoking factors that may provide further explanation.

Thanks a lot for pointing this out. I'll get a copy asap and try to improve my understanding of this heavy program of mine.

 

[Bar Kochba]

after losing regular internet access months ago, i spent alot of time reading. i educated myself on gurdjieff`s 4th way. I wish i would have done this sooner. After much self observation i realized how much i lie. Its mechanical. And i consider myself an honest person! I see my chief faults as being at times too passive and shy, anti social. And of course, selfish. The difference 2 months of intense (for me) work makes is that i can now spot these faults/programs while they occur rather than after the fact. Gurdjieff says we shouldnt try to change anything major in the beginning for fear of worse programs replacing the old. But he does suggest not giving voice to negative emotions and concentrating on honesty as a start. All i know is the person who posted here last year is not the person i am today. I cant believe how blind i was. And still am but at least now i can see the way to ridding myself of the blindness. I can never go back to sleep now in the same way that i can never be 36 again.

 

[Risen]

Something I have realized for some time but , in the last few days has really hit home is the being nice program.
A friend once told me that she insists that her children always thank people for their gifts even if they don't like them. I was also taught to do this and I do not agree with this. A true gift does not require anything from the giver, including gratitude.
I have a tendency to thank people for their "gift" of advice even though many times it is very bad advice and not given to me out of any desire to help me but with a desire for the giver to "be helpful" and so feed their false sense of being a "good person" or their sense of being wise. The truth is, I (or anyone else) rarely need advice ( in general) nor can anyone give it because they do not and cannot see the whole of my problem and am not asking for it. What I do need is a mirror, someone can often show me an error in thinking by showing a different perspective.
Many so called gifts are actually a gift to the giver and by accepting the gift and especially by thanking the giver, I am being insincere. Why should I thank someone, even for the thought, if the thought was selfish?
To be more precise I will give an example.
I do not like to eat in restaurants. Every person who knows me is aware of this fact. A few people I know consistently give me a "gift" of taking me out to eat, because THEY like to go out to eat, therefore using my birthday or other occasion as an excuse to give themselves a gift at my expense(psychological). And then they think, look how much money I have spent on this dinner, she should be grateful. I would have been happy and touched by a small token gift of something that was beneficial to me, like a new toothbrush or a bag of almonds, something that shows the giver is actually aware of me as an individual. Then there are the gifts which are outright insults, where the "giver" is using a gift to insult a person like giving makeup to a person who prefers to be natural or a padded bra, etc.
The being nice program, another way of lying which is oh so accepted and encouraged. And, of course, while I am in this program, I also expect other people to be nice to me, lol
I think I am beginning to understand and appreciate this forum in a way I had not until I started to participate more in the posting.

NOTE- while I was typing this post, I accidentally typed truthbrush instead of toothbrush. HAHA, that is what I would like to receive for my birthday, a new truthbrush, a gift that can only be given to me by myself, with a little help from my friends.

 

[Laura]

This is a topic that deserves daily input from many of you as you discover and observe programs.