What programs have YOU discovered?

EmeraldHope said:
anart said:
Why would you be sorry when all there is is lessons? :)

Anart ,I am not trying to hide behind a shield, or identify with it. I am just being very honest. It has been my experience, in the past, that unless I am very honest , I cannot address an issue properly.

I guess it boils down to this, I feel like on the one hand, I should just sit back again and not inject anything, because I am not done working on myself yet. How long will I be sitting? Then on the other hand, I know I need to relate here because I believe so much in everything that is being done and I want to help and also contine to grow , so I can in turn help more, but if I do not jump in and start somethwere, I am back to square one. I also am not being defensive per se, I just feel misunderstood in the context of what I was trying to accomplish.

I am sorry I used the word because it was only a small part of the point I was trying to make overall, and the back and forth with you that has resulted from using it is very frusturating to me. And yes, I do know there is a lesson in that.

Emeraldhope,

I can understand where you're coming from. Don't feel like you weren't helpful, I did read the links you posted and found them insightful and useful for my situation. Nobody here wants to discourage you from posting.

Like Anart said, we're all in this position to one degree or another. I remember when I first posting here I felt a lot of the same frustrations that you've expressed here and I know I pondered just leaving or giving up the notion of trying to interact here, but in the end I realized that there was some value in the methods used here to examine programs and other mental garbage.

And just interacting here has made me really appreciate what the mods, and others who are further along in the Work than me, had to offer. I could tell there was a certain subtlety about their posts that indicated that they were seeing things that I didn't and simply couldn't given the level I was at.

After interacting on here pretty steadily for about a year and making an honest effort to Work on myself and take the advise of others on this network, I'm starting to see things in posts here and in the events of daily life that I didn't before. It's not full-blown enlightenment or anything like that, but it's enough to make me realize that the Work does pay off in interesting ways.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't give up. You're learning, I'm learning, we're all learning here and to quote Anart - "it could be no other way." ;D
 
I suffer from the rescuer syndrome as well. I have found this to be one of the older programs which started running in early childhood. A strong imbalance in the family setup I grew up in led to the creation of the program from what I can tell. The result was that I grew up having no conception of my personal emotional needs. I looked to fulfill the needs of others in relationships all the while telling myself that I was so strong and so able that I could help others - so Anart's statement of saving others being the height of narcissism holds true for me . Also, it seems to me now that it was a misguided way of trying to fill the gaping hole inside of me. Most of the close relationships I have had over the years have followed this dynamic. It feels kind of surreal now that I think about it - on the one hand I thought I wanted to have relationships with people who were emotionally strong and independent; but most of the relationships that I actually had were with people who were emotionally needy. Gurdjieff's comment about the preferences of the essence and personality being antagonistic to each other may be applicable in this situation.
Associated with this rescuer program was the "secret" resentment that I harbored towards the people whom I tried to rescue. My thinking is that this was a way of experiencing the resentment of the neglected inner child projected outwards towards the others who were seen to be feeding on the energy. Resentment also arose when others would talk about their problems and apparently ask for help but would steadfastly refuse to take suggestions that could help address their issues. Laura wrote a post once which talked about listening to others as a form of validating their concerns. Nowadays I try to apply that technique of simply listening. I have had some good results with it. Where appropriate I still suggest ways that I think could help with the situation but I do not get as emotionally drained from these interactions as earlier.
I have found the "Narcissistic Family" very helpful in understanding aspects of this issue. The "female vampire, male victim" dynamic of "Unholy Hungers" was also useful in my experience.
 
EmeraldHope said:
I am sorry I used the word because it was only a small part of the point I was trying to make overall, and the back and forth with you that has resulted from using it is very frusturating to me. And yes, I do know there is a lesson in that.

Hi EmeraldHope,
It may not only be the usage of a particular word that is the crux of the issue here. It may have prompted the beginning of an exchange but it maybe the overall flavor of the interaction that is worth focusing on for learning purpose.
Your statement about sitting back and not injecting anything since you have not finished working on yourself does seem like an emotional reaction to Anart's post. No one questioned your intention of helping others. We try to help each other here and interaction is essential. There would be no forum if everybody waited to finish Work on themselves before starting to interact. During interaction, we are often helped in ways that we cannot anticipate. You could perhaps look at the exchange with Anart as such a learning opportunity.
Do you generally feel frustrated when some interaction or exchange does not go as you expect it to - or when others do not agree with your point of view?
 
obyvatel said:
EmeraldHope said:
I am sorry I used the word because it was only a small part of the point I was trying to make overall, and the back and forth with you that has resulted from using it is very frusturating to me. And yes, I do know there is a lesson in that.

Hi EmeraldHope,
It may not only be the usage of a particular word that is the crux of the issue here. It may have prompted the beginning of an exchange but it maybe the overall flavor of the interaction that is worth focusing on for learning purpose.
Your statement about sitting back and not injecting anything since you have not finished working on yourself does seem like an emotional reaction to Anart's post. No one questioned your intention of helping others. We try to help each other here and interaction is essential. There would be no forum if everybody waited to finish Work on themselves before starting to interact. During interaction, we are often helped in ways that we cannot anticipate. You could perhaps look at the exchange with Anart as such a learning opportunity.
Do you generally feel frustrated when some interaction or exchange does not go as you expect it to - or when others do not agree with your point of view?


I do not get frusturated very easily most of the time anymore. Most exchanges in real life never go the way I expect, nor do people agree with me on a consistnt basis, so that isn't it.

I do not think I was being emotional in my response. I do not plan on not injecting, or withdrawing. That statement came from re-reading Anart's posts to me, about not being able to help until we have cleared everything out, and me reasoning through it. I think I may be going about this the wrong way, and I'm taking another look at things to try to adjust that. I feel like I have been reading a foreign language for several years but this is the first time I am trying to speak it with people who are already fluent, if that makes any sense.

I am out of my comfort zone, and it is making me uncomfortable.

I gave it a few hours and came back to it, and I do understand what Anart was saying. I did not extrapolate the intimacy part in my head as far as Anart did when I first posted, and it was important. I also was so focused on trying to take Laura's advice to comment in the form of a question that I perhaps was not putting the effort needed into make sure the questions were exact enough and percisely relevent. I could have done better.

I also am very aware of a dynamic I feel with Anart. On one level, I identify with her, as we both in the past have dated a psychopath, and I know she is a very sensitive caring person. Her straightforwardness and the way she frames things reminds me of me in the corporate environment. However there is something about every interaction with her that is pushing some type of button in me, and I do not know exactly what it is yet. I know it has nothing to do with her per se. It is in me, and I think if I can find that and resolve it , it will help. Everytime I interact with Anart I feel frusturated, that is true. But again, it is something in me, not her that is the issue. I truly think Anart is very knowlegeable and I do admire her and I have learned alot from her already.
 
EmeraldHope said:
I do not think I was being emotional in my response. I do not plan on not injecting, or withdrawing. That statement came from re-reading Anart's posts to me, about not being able to help until we have cleared everything out, and me reasoning through it. I think I may be going about this the wrong way, and I'm taking another look at things to try to adjust that. I feel like I have been reading a foreign language for several years but this is the first time I am trying to speak it with people who are already fluent, if that makes any sense.
I am out of my comfort zone, and it is making me uncomfortable.
We can help each other and ourselves in different ways depending on our level of being. Trying to determine the needs of another person is not easy. It gets easier when we start seeing more of ourselves and are able to objectively evaluate our own state. And such a state comes from experiencing and applying the ideas we learn about in books and articles in our own lives. It is possible to intellectually associate information that we read about with some relevant topic - but the feel of such purely associative interaction is different from one that comes from a deeper understanding of the the core material. As I understand it, one usually evolves in this process of interaction through a trial and error method, with the network providing objective feedback which helps in learning. As long as we are open and concede that the network collectively knows and sees more than what we could do individually, we will be on the learning path - osit. It does take time and effort and some uncomfortable experiences on the path towards becoming comfortable with the form of interaction which is practiced in the forum. This is the Work after all and for a long time, being uncomfortable is perhaps an unavoidable state.
fwiw
 
obyvatel said:
EmeraldHope said:
I do not think I was being emotional in my response. I do not plan on not injecting, or withdrawing. That statement came from re-reading Anart's posts to me, about not being able to help until we have cleared everything out, and me reasoning through it. I think I may be going about this the wrong way, and I'm taking another look at things to try to adjust that. I feel like I have been reading a foreign language for several years but this is the first time I am trying to speak it with people who are already fluent, if that makes any sense.
I am out of my comfort zone, and it is making me uncomfortable.
We can help each other and ourselves in different ways depending on our level of being. Trying to determine the needs of another person is not easy. It gets easier when we start seeing more of ourselves and are able to objectively evaluate our own state. And such a state comes from experiencing and applying the ideas we learn about in books and articles in our own lives. It is possible to intellectually associate information that we read about with some relevant topic - but the feel of such purely associative interaction is different from one that comes from a deeper understanding of the the core material. As I understand it, one usually evolves in this process of interaction through a trial and error method, with the network providing objective feedback which helps in learning. As long as we are open and concede that the network collectively knows and sees more than what we could do individually, we will be on the learning path - osit. It does take time and effort and some uncomfortable experiences on the path towards becoming comfortable with the form of interaction which is practiced in the forum. This is the Work after all and for a long time, being uncomfortable is perhaps an unavoidable state.
fwiw

Just to clarify, and I may be misunderstanding you, or, I may have not been clear. I have not just been reading for 10 years and intellectualizing. I have done some deep down dirty work to get rid of a lot of repressed emotions, programs, fears, trauma, etc. I have been disintegrated and in the fetal position a few times in this process. I had to do all of that before I could even get here, to interact with you all. I do trust Laura and the network.
 
EmeraldHope said:
I do not get frusturated very easily most of the time anymore. Most exchanges in real life never go the way I expect, nor do people agree with me on a consistnt basis, so that isn't it.

And that could be a clue? That maybe you second-guess or read into things elements that are not there and react to that? And if you are "reading into" then that means projecting. And projecting means projecting what you would be thinking while writing something like thus-and-so.

There ARE times when there are "hidden meanings" or "things between the lines" posted here by moderators or even myself, but generally, we strive to avoid it and to speak as plainly and directly as possible with no hidden meanings or suggestions.

EmeraldHope said:
I do not think I was being emotional in my response. I do not plan on not injecting, or withdrawing. That statement came from re-reading Anart's posts to me, about not being able to help until we have cleared everything out, and me reasoning through it. I think I may be going about this the wrong way, and I'm taking another look at things to try to adjust that. I feel like I have been reading a foreign language for several years but this is the first time I am trying to speak it with people who are already fluent, if that makes any sense.

Exactly. Just what I described above. You are so used to people having hidden motivations, hidden meanings behind their words, that the ordinary way of interacting takes hold and you project that, read into what is being said, things that simply are not there. In real life, it's a moving target trying to figure out what people are really saying, what they really mean, so it can really be disorienting to encounter people who actually take time and care to be as sincere as possible.

EmeraldHope said:
I am out of my comfort zone, and it is making me uncomfortable.

Well, isn't that a good thing? As Gurdjieff said:

ISOTM said:
"You must realize that each man has a definite repertoire of roles which he plays in ordinary circumstances," said G. in this connection. "He has a role for every kind of circumstance in which he ordinarily finds himself in life; but put him into even only slightly different circumstances and he is unable to find a suitable role and for, a short time he becomes himself.

"The study of the roles a man plays represents a very necessary part of self-knowledge.

"Each man's repertoire is very limited. And if a man simply says 'I' and 'Ivan Ivanich,' he will not see the whole of himself because 'Ivan Ivanich' also is not one; a man has at least five or six of them. One or two for his family, one or two at his office (one for his subordinates and another for his superiors), one for friends in a restaurant, and perhaps one who is interested in exalted ideas and likes intellectual conversation. And at different times the man is fully identified with one of them and is unable to separate himself from it.

"To see the roles, to know one's repertoire, particularly to know its limitedness, is to know a great deal.

"But the point is that, outside his repertoire, a man feels very uncomfortable should something push him if only temporarily out of his rut, and he tries his hardest to return to any one of his usual roles. Directly he falls back into the rut everything at once goes smoothly again and the feeling of awkwardness and tension disappears.

"This is how it is in life; but in the work, in order to observe oneself, one must become reconciled to this awkwardness and tension and to the feeling of discomfort and helplessness.

Only by experiencing this discomfort can a man really observe himself. And it is clear why this is so. When a man is not playing any of his usual roles, when he cannot find a suitable role in his repertoire, he feels that he is undressed. He is cold and ashamed and wants to run away from everybody.

"But the question arises: What does he want? A quiet life or to work on himself? If he wants a quiet life, he must certainly first of all never move out of his repertoire. In his usual roles he feels comfortable and at peace. But if he wants to work on himself, he must destroy his peace. To have them both together is in no way possible.

"A man must make a choice. But when choosing the result is very often deceit, that is to say, a man tries to deceive himself. In words he chooses work but in reality he does not want to lose his peace. The result is that he sits between two stools. This is the most uncomfortable position of all. He does no work at all and he gets no comfort whatever.

"But it is very difficult for a man to decide to throw everything to the devil and begin real work. And why is it difficult? Principally because his life is too easy and even if he considers it bad he is already accustomed to it. It is better for it to be bad, yet known. But here there is something new and unknown. He does not even know whether any result can be got from it or not. And besides, the most difficult thing here is that it is necessary to obey someone, to submit to someone.

"If a man could invent difficulties and sacrifices for himself, he would sometimes go very far. But the point here is that this is not possible. It is necessary to obey another or to follow the direction of general work, the control of which can belong only to one person. Such submission is the most difficult thing that there can be for a man who thinks that he is capable of deciding anything or of doing anything.

"Of course, when he gets rid of these fantasies and sees what he really is, the difficulty disappears. This, however, can only take place in the course of work. But to begin to work and particularly to continue to work is very difficult and it is difficult because life runs too smoothly."

EmeraldHope said:
I gave it a few hours and came back to it, and I do understand what Anart was saying. I did not extrapolate the intimacy part in my head as far as Anart did when I first posted, and it was important. I also was so focused on trying to take Laura's advice to comment in the form of a question that I perhaps was not putting the effort needed into make sure the questions were exact enough and percisely relevent. I could have done better.

You were struggling to stay in your comfort zone where you have identified with the role of teacher.

EmeraldHope said:
I also am very aware of a dynamic I feel with Anart. On one level, I identify with her, as we both in the past have dated a psychopath, and I know she is a very sensitive caring person. Her straightforwardness and the way she frames things reminds me of me in the corporate environment. However there is something about every interaction with her that is pushing some type of button in me, and I do not know exactly what it is yet. I know it has nothing to do with her per se. It is in me, and I think if I can find that and resolve it , it will help. Everytime I interact with Anart I feel frusturated, that is true. But again, it is something in me, not her that is the issue. I truly think Anart is very knowlegeable and I do admire her and I have learned alot from her already.

It seems that you are not often accustomed to interacting with someone who is teacher to you, rather you seem to be accustomed to being the teacher in your circle.

Taking on the mantle of teacher is a heavy responsibility - many are called, but few choose to answer. And certainly there are different levels of teachers. There are those who teach kindergarten and those who teach in university and a whole bunch of levels in between. For each teaching level, one must move up a level which means returning to being a student.

My husband taught in a high-school after doing his Masters degree but he knew, right away, that this was not for him. Stopping at that level and ONLY being able to teach at that level, was not satisfying. He wanted to know more, to do more. And so, after one term, he went back to university and became the youngest person in the history of his institute to make his Ph.D. He still will teach even the youngest and greenest students, but his great love is using his tools to find answers for other teachers of teachers.

In a certain sense, that is what we do here: teach teachers of teachers. It wasn't planned that way, it just turned out that way.

Welcome to the school.
 
EmeraldHope said:
I am out of my comfort zone, and it is making me uncomfortable.

...

It is in me, and I think if I can find that and resolve it , it will help.

Maybe that is the bit to pay special attention to. The approach we take here requires that one challenges one's own understandings, in order to uncover our 'predator's mind' (a 'false personality' which fools us constantly and 'protects' us from objective reality so that we can sleep and it can feed). The process of discovering and overcoming our false personality is necessarily painful and difficult, as it fights to maintain control.

So, if you are feeling uncomfortable perhaps take a closer look to trace back to the source within your 'machine', in order to cast a light on it - is that part of you 'feeling the heat' from coming under scrutiny and having its security challenged? This is what is variously referred to as 'Buffers, Programs & The Predator's Mind'.
 
Nomad said:
So, if you are feeling uncomfortable perhaps take a closer look to trace back to the source within your 'machine', in order to cast a light on it - is that part of you 'feeling the heat' from coming under scrutiny and having its security challenged? This is what is variously referred to as 'Buffers, Programs & The Predator's Mind'.

Good call, Nomad. But prolly ought to start at the beginning of the thread:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6419.0
 
Hi EmeraldHope,

I am currently reading the book Essays on Life on Planet Earth by the Editors of SOTT. I hope you find it helpful if I may quote one paragraph the chapter "The Work" at page 134:-

While each individual's path will differ, it seems that there are several concepts that hold true for everyone. The first is that we must be brutally honest in our self-examination. There is no easy "upgrade" that will allow us to instantly change our internal configuration. A great deal of internal work is necessary. Given that we are running a multitude of different programs, the second key concept is that we cannot do this work on our own. It is certainly possible to identify some of our own programs and become conscious enough of them to limit their influence upon us - but ultimately we need external input. Naturally, the source of this input must be chosen carefully. As we commented previously, there are many different schools once can choose. It is therefore important to search for one where there is a natural exchange if information amongst individuals who are colinear - that is, people who are collectively working towards a similar goal. When we help each other, we must keep in mind that everyone runs their own programs.

Most of everyone here are working towards that similar goal. Having said that, some may have different agendas. But from my experience so far, the administrators and moderators are very good at screening and weeding those out. And of course you can use your own discernment considering your own programmings. The Predator's Mind are most cunning and elusive! From my experience, whenever it is caught, there is an immediate knot in my throat and down towards my chest and gut screaming out, trying to defend itself! It is definitely a battle within!!

Keep Doing the Work!
 
EmeraldHope said:
Just to clarify, and I may be misunderstanding you, or, I may have not been clear. I have not just been reading for 10 years and intellectualizing. I have done some deep down dirty work to get rid of a lot of repressed emotions, programs, fears, trauma, etc. I have been disintegrated and in the fetal position a few times in this process. I had to do all of that before I could even get here, to interact with you all. I do trust Laura and the network.
The point that I was trying to make was primarily regarding the interaction that takes place in the forum where we try to help each other. You did state in another thread that you have worked on yourself alone. The learning dynamics in a group is different. We tend to project our own biases on others in the beginning - so determining what the other is really asking for is a difficult task. More experiential understanding about the self and others helps in developing a more objective outlook - but this takes time and effort. We do make mistakes on the way and tune our reading instrument with feedback. The feedback received from the network is often uncomfortable for the false personality which assumes that it knows when it does not. Hope this clarifies what I unsuccessfully tried to communicate in my previous post.
 
Quote from Laura:
Exactly. Just what I described above. You are so used to people having hidden motivations, hidden meanings behind their words, that the ordinary way of interacting takes hold and you project that, read into what is being said, things that simply are not there. In real life, it's a moving target trying to figure out what people are really saying, what they really mean, so it can really be disorienting to encounter people who actually take time and care to be as sincere as possible.

You are 100% correct. That is exactly what I am doing. I would have never seen this myself. I really thought I was being as objective as possible, lol. I have never in my life communicated with people who were congruent.

Quote from Laura:
You were struggling to stay in your comfort zone where you have identified with the role of teacher.
I can see that now that you point it out, but would have never come to that conclusion myself. I had to chew on that for a while.

Quote from Laura:
It seems that you are not often accustomed to interacting with someone who is teacher to you, rather you seem to be accustomed to being the teacher in your circle.

That ,too, is 100% correct. I have no reference point for it. As I told you I am entirely self educated for the most part. I also naturally taught my friends when I was younger. Due to how I was raised I was far ahead of the other kids in many areas. As an example , I learned how to drive on the spot by the seat of my pants when I was 11 or 12, because my mom cut her wrists and was bleeding very bad and I had to get her to the hospital. She did not have the money for the ambulance . That turned in to running to the grocery store and to the store for her cigarettes. Crazy ,huh? But when my older frineds were learning to drive at 15- 16, I had been driving for 3 years or so at 14.
I will do my best to be aware of this, and not let it get in the way.



Quote from Nomad:
So, if you are feeling uncomfortable perhaps take a closer look to trace back to the source within your 'machine', in order to cast a light on it - is that part of you 'feeling the heat' from coming under scrutiny and having its security challenged? This is what is variously referred to as 'Buffers, Programs & The Predator's Mind'.

Nomad, I have quite a bit posted in that thread. But, to be on the safe side I re-read it. I am wondering if this is coming from my post here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6419.msg177921#msg177921

In re-reading the thread, one thing that stuck out to me is that, from Laura's initial post:

In any event, when the infant splits, the brain seeks to protect an idealized segment of the individual's psyche or internal world from the aggression of the stress. The separation will be maintained at the expense of the psyche. There is no integrating that "dissociated part" with the rest of the self-images the child forms throughout life. Whenever something triggers that particular part of the brain, some stress that is similar, something perceived as a threat to survival, that program will run and all the learning and cognitive skills of the individual be damned.

I am really concerned about that., as it says there is not way to integrate it. Ironically enough, this is what got triggered the very first day I really attempted to interact in here. Anart asked the inital question to lead to it getting triggered. So I do not know. I will have to explore that more.



To everyone else who has commented, thank you very much. It is nice to be in a supportive environment.
 
I wish for some feedback. The immediate context is the exchange I had with EmeraldHope in this thread. In my initial post addressed to her, I wanted to mention that reading her posts in different threads, I had felt for some time that there was a flavour of teacher trying to help others. But I could not write this simple sentence - instead I chose to be oblique. Today after reading Laura's response to EmeraldHope, I felt sort of a relief on one hand. Then I wrote another post trying to justify my previous oblique post. But after some more time went by and I kept this thought at the back of my mind throughout the day, I felt dishonest. This struggle with directly stating what I feel is not new for me - it has happened many times in the context of interactions in this forum. Usually, in these cases, I do not post. When someone else eventually reports the same dynamic that I felt like writing about, there is a sense of relief.
Looking into this struggle inside of me, I see the question what if I am wrong in my assessment and it hurts another person unnecessarily? I rationalize further that there are those much further ahead in the Work than I am who have a great track record of seeing such dynamics and they would write about it when the time is right. I have a boat load of programs running inside me of which I am gradually becoming aware and so am not sure of that I see these situations clearly without projection. So silence seems to be prudent. But it also leaves a taste of not being fully honest with the network as far as my participation is concerned.
I remember G saying in ISOTM that complete sincerity is needed with the teacher in the Work. G also said that it is vitally important to practice external consideration in the Work when dealing with others in the school. I am beginning to think that politely stating what I feel while accepting the possibility of being wrong in my assessment may be the general way to proceed. I would appreciate feedback. Thanks in advance.
 
obyvatel said:
I wish for some feedback. The immediate context is the exchange I had with EmeraldHope in this thread. In my initial post addressed to her, I wanted to mention that reading her posts in different threads, I had felt for some time that there was a flavour of teacher trying to help others. But I could not write this simple sentence - instead I chose to be oblique. Today after reading Laura's response to EmeraldHope, I felt sort of a relief on one hand. Then I wrote another post trying to justify my previous oblique post. But after some more time went by and I kept this thought at the back of my mind throughout the day, I felt dishonest. This struggle with directly stating what I feel is not new for me - it has happened many times in the context of interactions in this forum. Usually, in these cases, I do not post. When someone else eventually reports the same dynamic that I felt like writing about, there is a sense of relief.
Looking into this struggle inside of me, I see the question what if I am wrong in my assessment and it hurts another person unnecessarily? I rationalize further that there are those much further ahead in the Work than I am who have a great track record of seeing such dynamics and they would write about it when the time is right. I have a boat load of programs running inside me of which I am gradually becoming aware and so am not sure of that I see these situations clearly without projection. So silence seems to be prudent. But it also leaves a taste of not being fully honest with the network as far as my participation is concerned.
I remember G saying in ISOTM that complete sincerity is needed with the teacher in the Work. G also said that it is vitally important to practice external consideration in the Work when dealing with others in the school. I am beginning to think that politely stating what I feel while accepting the possibility of being wrong in my assessment may be the general way to proceed. I would appreciate feedback. Thanks in advance.

obyvatel,

For what it is worth, if you would have just said that I would have understood you, and could have at least looked at it from that angle. From the example of this thread, I can only say that if there is something that one does not see in oneself, if someone is being vague in pointing out something, I do not think one is going to guess what they mean. I re-read this interaction several times trying to get it.

I understood Laura on her 2nd teacher point right off the bat, the first one of "struggling to maintain it", I had to to really think on all day to grok it. But I got it.

In my mind, that wasn't what I was trying to do at all. Like I said, I thought I was being objective. :scared:
 
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