Amanda Knox - guilty or innocent?

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I'm curious, it's been nearly 2 years since this original posting... now that the appeals trial is nearly over, what are your thoughts now? A lot of the original DNA evidence was excluded... there have been other facts that have come out, like two unknown foot prints, etc...
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I'll give my humble opinion about this.

I've read the Monster of Florence book and the Knox affair stinks to high heaven

The Monster of Florence: A True Story is a 2008 true crime book by American thriller writer Douglas Preston and Italian journalist Mario Spezi. It relates to a series of murders that occurred between 1968 and 1985 and involved couples who were killed while having sex in their cars in deserted lanes around the city of Florence in the Italian province of Tuscany
Preston, an author of fiction and non-fiction books, moved to Florence with his family and became interested in the Monster of Florence case because the murders had taken place in the surrounding countryside. Mario Spezi, co-author of the book, is a journalist who specialized in the Monster of Florence case for many years. Preston and Spezi became friends and then collaborated on articles and books about the case. Both became figures in the case when the Italian prosecutors came to suspect them and accuse them of crimes including obstruction of justice and potentially being accomplices to murder. Preston published an article about the case in American magazine The Atlantic in 2006.
So it was a really interesting book because you can see that the two main protagonists had no idea what they were up against. The whole story is mixed with false testimonies,police wiretapping, accusation of satanic cult and so on...while the true culprit(s) is still at large.

What I find interesting is that Giuliano Mignini the same prosecutor in the case cited above is involved in the Knox affair and if you read the Monster of Florence you would see how this guy is almost crazy and usually forge the evidence to fit his theories.

Just an example from
_http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/masonic-theory-that-put-knox-in-the-dock-981759.html

You can easily find a lot of articles about this whole affair...
Mr Mignini saw the scene so clearly in his mind that he was able to describe it to the judge in detail: Meredith on her knees before the wardrobe, Rudy holding her immobile, Raffaele grasping one arm, Amanda in front of her, pricking her throat teasingly with the knife – until the blade in her hand struck home. “To prove it,” he told the judge triumphantly, “the only thing missing was a video camera in the room.”

Given such a weighty consensus, the outside world would be forgiven for sorrowfully shaking its head at the terrible things young people get up to these days. One would take for granted that Mr Mignini must have excellent sources – witness testimony, forensic findings, even confessions – for his shocking description.

The last place you would look for such sources, however, is in a conspiracy theorist’s blog. Yet that is where the theory of the sacrificial rite finds its fullest expression. In a blog posted last August, Gabriella Carlizzi, a prolific Roman blogger, claimed that Meredith’s murder had been ordered by the dark masters of an esoteric Masonic sect, the Order of the Red Rose, to which she thinks both Meredith and Amanda may have belonged.

“This is just my personal opinion,” she begins modestly, “and it may have no value to the investigators, but my research in America and England has reinforced my idea that this case must be interpreted from an esoteric point of view.”

Meredith and Amanda went to two universities, Leeds and Seattle, which “have become recruitment bases for Masonic orders, both deviant and non-deviant, and of Esoteric Schools,” she claims. These Schools brainwash their initiates into believing that it is right to offer “even the sacrifice of their own lives in a secret ritual, sacrifices often made voluntarily”.
Exactly the same pattern and people involved in the Monster of Florence case and they've been proven to make up stories to convict people !!!


The latest on Knox
AMERICAN Amanda Knox's future hangs in the balance on the eve of a verdict in her appeal against murder and sexual assault convictions for the brutal killing of her British housemate in Italy.

Prosecutors have asked for her 26-year sentence to be increased to life because they say that she, her then boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito and local drug dealer Rudy Guede killed Meredith Kercher in November 2007 "for nothing".

Knox says she is innocent and was at Sollecito's house on the night of the murder in the university town of Perugia where Knox and Kercher were studying.

A verdict in Knox's appeal, which began in November 2010, is expected on Monday.
_http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/verdict-looms-in-amanda-knox-sex-murder-appeal/story-e6frf7lf-1226156247383
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

LadyRodgers said:
Knox and Sollecito FREED!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_ITALY_KNOX?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

PERUGIA, Italy (AP) -- An Italian appeals court threw out Amanda Knox's murder conviction Monday and ordered the young American freed after nearly four years in prison for the death of her British roommate.

Knox collapsed in tears after the verdict overturning her 2009 conviction was read out. Her co-defendant, Italian Raffaele Sollecito, also was cleared of killing 21-year-old Meredith Kercher in 2007.

The Kercher family looked on grimly and a bit dazed as the verdict was read out by the judge after 11 hours of deliberations by the eight-member jury. Outside the courthouse, some of the hundreds of observers shouted "Shame, shame!"

Yet inside the frescoed courtroom, Knox's parents, who have regularly traveled from their home in Seattle to Perugia to visit the 24-year-old over the past four years, hugged their lawyers and cried with joy.

"We've been waiting for this for four years," said one of Sollecito's lawyers, Giulia Bongiorno.

The judge upheld Knox's conviction on a charge of slander for accusing bar owner Diya "Patrick" Lumumba of carrying out the killing. He set the sentence at three years, meaning for time served. Knox has been in prison since Nov. 6, 2007.

Prosecutors can appeal the acquittal to Italy's highest court. There was no word late Monday if they planned to do so.

In Seattle, about a dozen Knox supporters were overjoyed that she has been cleared of the murder conviction.

"She's free!" and "We did it!" they shouted at a hotel where they watched the court proceedings on TV.

Earlier Monday, Knox tearfully told the court she did not kill her roommate. Knox frequently paused for breath and fought back tears as she spoke in Italian to the eight members of the jury in a packed courtroom, but managed to maintain her composure during the 10-minute address.

"I've lost a friend in the worst, most brutal, most inexplicable way possible," she said of the 2007 murder of Kercher, who shared an apartment with Knox when they were both students in Perugia. "I'm paying with my life for things that I didn't do."

Knox and Sollecito, Knox's former boyfriend from Italy, were convicted in 2009 of sexually assaulting and murdering Kercher, who was stabbed to death in her bedroom. Knox was sentenced to 26 years in prison, Sollecito to 25. They both deny wrongdoing.

"I never hurt anyone, never in my life," Sollecito said Monday in his own speech to the jury.

Hundreds of eager observers gathered outside the courthouse ahead of the highly anticipated announcement, joining television vans that have been camped out for more than a week. One hundred reporters were being allowed into the subterranean courtroom.

Observers lined the street leading to the courthouse, taking pictures as the two vans carrying Knox and Sollecito from the prison to the court passed by.

Kercher's mother, sister and a brother traveled to Perugia for the verdict. They had expressed worry over the possibility of an acquittal but told reporters as deliberations were under way that they hoped the jury would do the right thing and not be influenced by the media's focus on the case.

"As long as they decide today based purely on the information available to them and they don't look into the media hype, I think justice will be found," the victim's sister, Stephanie Kercher, told reporters. She said the family was satisfied with the original verdicts.

She lamented that Meredith had been "most forgotten" in the media circus surrounding the case, with news photos more frequently showing Knox and Sollecito than "Mez" - the victim's nickname. "It's very difficult to keep her memory alive in all of this," she said.

The family, however, said it could understand the Knox family's media campaign.

"They fully believe in her innocence. You can't blame them for that," said Lyle Kercher, the victim's brother. "But it's obviously hard for us."

As the verdict was broadcast live, hundreds of reporters and camera crews filled the underground, frescoed courtroom before Knox's address, while police outside cordoned off the entrance to the tribunal.

The trial has captivated audiences worldwide: Knox and Sollecito had been convicted of murdering Meredith in what the lower court said had begun as a drug-fueled sexual assault.

Knox insisted Monday that she had nothing to do with the murder and that Kercher was a friend who was always nice to her. Gesticulating, at times clasping her hands together, the American said she has always wanted justice for Kercher.

"She had her bedroom next to mine, she was killed in our own apartment. If I had been there that night, I would be dead," Knox said. "But I was not there."

"I did not kill. I did not rape. I did not steal. I wasn't there," Knox said.

After the morning court session, Knox was relaxing in the prison chapel, playing guitar and singing as she awaited the verdict, according to an Italian lawmaker who visited her in prison Monday.

"These are obviously the most difficult hours," Rocco Girlanda, who has spearheaded a campaign in Italy in support of Knox, told The Associated Press. "The time never seems to pass."

Also convicted in separate proceedings was Rudy Hermann Guede, a small-time drug dealer and drifter who spent most of his life in Italy after arriving here from his native Ivory Coast. Guede was convicted in a separate fast-track procedure and saw his sentence cut to 16 years in his final appeal.

Lawyers for Knox and Sollecito believe Guede was the sole killer, but the prosecution and a lawyer for the Kercher family say that bruises and a lack of defensive wounds on Kercher's body prove that there was more than one aggressor holding her into submission.

Knox said she had nothing more than a passing acquaintance with Guede, who played basketball at a court near the house, and didn't even know his name. Sollecito, who addressed the court before Knox, told jurors that he did not know Guede at all.

Sollecito was anxious as he addressed the court, shifting as he spoke and stopping to sip water. He said prior to the Nov. 1, 2007 murder was a happy time for him, he was close to defending his thesis to graduate from university and had just met Knox.

The weekend Kercher was murdered was the first the pair planned to spend together "in tenderness and cuddles," he said.

At the end of his 17-minute address, Sollecito took off a white rubber bracelet emblazoned with "Free Amanda and Raffaele" that he said he has been wearing for four years.

"I have never taken it off. Many emotions are concentrated in this bracelet," he said. "Now I want to pay homage to the court. The moment to take it off has arrived."
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Well that outcome seemed expected from what the media was portraying, but so much of this case doesn't make sense.

  • What about the two new footprints? I can't find enough information on them but couldn't they have been from Knox / Sollecito before the murder? Was Sollecito ever in the apartment prior to the murder?
  • Knox also said she took a shower in the apartment after finding her flatmate dead. What? This would seem very troubling.
  • The broken window seems fishy, obviously broken from outside but the glass was ontop of the clothing in the trashed room. Either the room was always trashed (no kept up well) or it was done after the murder.
  • The knife evidence seems completely inconclusive, doesn't match and Knox obviously could have used the knife for cooking at Sollecito's apartment.
  • The Mignini character and interrogation techniques make me think the prosecution is seriously flawed. Then again why did she point to her employer as the murderer, that makes no sense at all unless she is a) a pyschopath or b) just produced a name to stop the interrogation.
  • Poor police investigation (?) and not enough DNA to re-test the evidence at the appeal? Hmm, this makes sense as to why the evidence was inadmissable.

I'm sure there is more that doesn't make sense, including the original thread here discussing Knox's character and her responses to the court. However, I just don't see how you could convict her based on the evidence provided, there are some things that do not make sense, that is for sure, but nothing really conclusive IMO. Especially the murder weapon not being conclusive, the marks don't match and the DNA evidence is unreliable.
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

This case remembers me of an incident some friends of mine had in their teens. There were three of them and they drinked a lot. Suddenly the most drunk decided he had to kill the most sober one. The other friend, slightly on alcool but still enough watchful to see that the drunk guy actually got a blade and was running - badly but steady - after to sober one, and managed at some point to stop a direct hit with his own arms.. the target being a bush where the sober one quickly passed while running, too fast for the other two drunk guys to notice.

The drunk guy didn't remember it at all the next day, and other friends there spent a whole morning listening to his babbles till he finally went to bed.

Sometimes I think of an 'Operators and Things' effect at play here. No need of Masonry smoke and mirrors at all, even if there's a whole forum (Poteri Occulti) dedicated to the actions of this 'Red Rose invisible Sect', and the whole affair looking more and more like a 'Strategy of Tension' variation, without bombs and killings these times, especially considering that it's from 2002 that these hyper media-trials have invaded TV sets and magazine here in Italy, and they won't back down a minute - I can list a dozen of them without knowing the details because it's actually nauseating for any rational mind being bombarded with bits of non-forensic, chaotic and contradicting details all the time :nuts:

Now it's curious that the so far depicted emotionless girl and her cold boyfriend have been cleared by all the accusation, while the public shouts 'killers!' and 'assassins!' to them on the streets. And there have been similar psychological traits being indicted in those recent TV-led murder cases, and even the guilty ones had always the benefit of the doubt in the end, always thanks to occult and psyop-like stories spreading around.

It's very hard to have an opinion on these murders, just because any TV-murder case automatically muddy the waters of any forensic evidence being presented, not to mention all those big names/big lawyers up to Hillary Clinton having put their finger on it.
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I followed this case for some time now, and although I didn't research it extensively I initially concluded that justice had been done in 2009 when Amanda Knox was convicted. I must admit that I was influenced by the Sott headlines labeling her a 'female psychopath' here and here. I mean, if the Sott staff see a psychopath, they must be right, right?

Well, right now I'm not so sure anymore, and I'm beginning to suspect that she's innocent and a victim of a zealous and story fabricating prosecutor.

Also, while in prison she was teaching yoga and English to fellow prisoners. Would a psychopath do that?

Here's a video of Amanda speaking to the press shortly after arriving in the US: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7383489n&tag=storyMediaBox;postSpecialReport

She says in that video "I'm really overwhelmed right now" and she visibly is. I can imagine how overwhelmed she must have been when she found out her flatmate was murdered. And then being put through a 50 hour interrogation without a lawyer present, I can also imagine her breaking down and talk nonsensical within a couple of hours, thus giving the prosecutor a lot of cannon-fodder to fabricate an intricate and appealing story about a sex crime.
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Mechanic said:
Also, while in prison she was teaching yoga and English to fellow prisoners. Would a psychopath do that?
For the record, I believe a psychopath would. Especially one who was in her situation. If you haven't yet, you may want to read The Mask of Sanity.
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

truth seeker said:
Mechanic said:
Also, while in prison she was teaching yoga and English to fellow prisoners. Would a psychopath do that?
For the record, I believe a psychopath would. Especially one who was in her situation. If you haven't yet, you may want to read The Mask of Sanity.
Thanks, it's still on my reading list somewhere. I'll move it to the top :-)
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Well, this is just my personal take on it and certainly not proof of anything, but I still think she was there and took part in it. I think she's a liar and a manipulator and wouldn't trust her for the time of day. Perhaps it was an accident along the lines that dantem has described, but even so, I'd still bet my last strip of bacon that she's been lying about her involvement from day one. Just my two cents and worth about as much.
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

anart said:
Well, this is just my personal take on it and certainly not proof of anything, but I still think she was there and took part in it. I think she's a liar and a manipulator and wouldn't trust her for the time of day. Perhaps it was an accident along the lines that dantem has described, but even so, I'd still bet my last strip of bacon that she's been lying about her involvement from day one. Just my two cents and worth about as much.

Fwiw I agree with anart. And here is my 2 cents worth.

I must admit that as I was following the case for a while and I thought - especially after the police came out and said that the DNA was inconclusive and that the police messed up the crime-scene that there was a possibility that her involvement may have been a minor one. But I still think she was there and lied about it.

I think the police in this case were completely incompetent idiots. :nuts:

Some of the things that made me think she was more on the guilty side was the glaring press-involvement and also that her family probably 'bought' her appeal. I mean... they had a plane on stand by to take her out of Italy while the Kercher girl's family could barely get tickets? See here. She did admit she was involved then pointed the finger at some bar tender, then decided to change her story altogether to I wasn't there at all. When people change their story that much, it starts to smell fishy.

The other thing, and I know this is completely subjective but it was that she was well... pretty. She seems like the perfect psychopath. Good looking and manipulative.

What's funny is I think that the guy who ended up staying in jail (the drug dealer?) was actually not involved in the murder. Just a gut feeling.

I will also say that a lot of the elements of this case, mainly the media frenzy reminded me of the Casey Anthony trial. I also think she was guilty and both 'ladies' changed their stories during the trial. Casey Anthony... definitely not as pretty as Knox though :P
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I have been keeping an eye on this case from the very beginning...
I do believe that Amanda was hiding "something" but not anything really related with the Murder. I believe that she and Sollecito are innocent. For one thing, Sollecito had only known Amanda for a week! Why would he defend and lie for her? Why would he jeopardise his life and his families for someone that he just met?
As far as psychopathic behavior?
I think that Amanda's behavior in the beginning was questionable for an Italian woman but not nesseccarily for an American girl. Amanda was young, naive, a bit spoiled, never suffered or faced any hardship or circumstances such as this. Psychopathic, hmmmm I just don't see that and I think that it would be really hard to judge from the media alone. i think that she was in shock and didn't know how to behave. Honestly I think that she was just being young and stupid and was clinging on to what she had at the time, Sollecito.
The Italian Media cruxified her to no end, primarily because she was free willed and open minded about many aspects in her life. You know that whole thinking for herself bit. It obviously wasn't approved by the Italians...
And to me her behavior in the Appeals court was much different than the first time around. I believe that she was so afraid and scared that this outcome would be like the trial... the way that she trembled and cried when waiting for the appeals dicision after deliberations says it all to me.
and the bottom line is that they never had the evidence to prove her and Sollecito were even in Merediths room...
the police made mistakes in the beginning and then when the found out about Guede, they just continued... instead admiting their mistake... my confusion is why they haven't looked into the evidence that they did find... like the multiple sets of footprints.
I really feel for Meredith's family, it seems to me that the prosecution is not telling them the truth and just making matters worse, all because of pride!
I think that this is a great article that speaks alot of truth about the whole ordeal.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/05/ED8G1LDAMB.DTL&tsp=1
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

This writer is sure Amanda is psycho:

The author of "Angel Face," Barbie Latza Nadeau, shares her insight on the infamous murder conviction of American student Amanda Knox, and why the American media fell for the angelic face while missing out on the actual evidence of the case. Nadeau is the author of the new book "Angel Face," and reports for Newsweek Magazine.

[Video]

An article here
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

LadyRodgers said:
I believe that she was so afraid and scared that this outcome would be like the trial... the way that she trembled and cried when waiting for the appeals dicision after deliberations says it all to me.

Maybe.. but than again if she was really a psychopath than acting like that would be no problem for her. Some call it crocodile tears.
 
Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I don't know if Knox is a psychopath but you really have to read about the Monster of Florence case to really understand the context of what happened next.
I don't know but while everyone is focusing on Knox it shifts the attention to other areas which should be under light as well imho.

Something is really rotten in Florence.

If you're interested you should read this article as well for example

_http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/04/19/prosecutor-threatens-italian-journalists-over-amanda-knox-case/
Google, under pressure from Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, pulled the plug on Perugia Shock on May 10. Already threatened by Perugia police, creator Frank Sfarzo says Mignini has accused him of “defamation through the press,” a crime in Italy. Sfarzo wrote the only Amanda Knox case blog written in English by an Italian journalist in Perugia. He has a large, international audience.

“Mignini sued me for defamation,” Szarfo told the West Seattle Herald by phone today from Perugia. “The lawsuit went to the court in Florence, and the judge in Florence made a decree of seizure of the blog. Google did it and did not tell me why, but that it was a judge order. I learned by email.”

“Mignini sued me,” he continued to the Seattle newspaper. “The real reason I don’t know. I wrote some sentences that he found (personally) insulting.”...
 

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