Amanda Knox - guilty or innocent?

[cubbex]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Look at her eyes, you got a scary feeling from her.

Well, I don't, I got scarier feelings from the look of the prosecutor. But in both cases it doesn't count for anything, because you can't tell if someone is quilty of murder or a psycho just by the looks.

Who's talking about the prosecutor? I'm talking about Knox. Bias on your thought maybe?

Well, I don't, I got scarier feelings from the look of the prosecutor. But in both cases it doesn't count for anything, because you can't tell if someone is quilty of murder or a psycho just by the looks.

Of course you can't, I didn't say that :P it was just a comment.

This case remembers me a lot from that case I like a lot about the "Bells" from London, the little girl who killed the two kids reacted in the same way like her, crying after hearing the verdict.

Well, the crying could mean anything. Notice that Sollecito wasn't crying after the verdict. Does that mean she's a killer and he's innocent? Or the other way around?

Read the book "Cries Unheard: Why children kill. The case of Mary Bell". My point was that being female the two reacted in the same way, the dramatization just when they can't get of out of the problem, their last card, do you know the psychopath type that makes his/her way acting like the victim of all the mess the created? So not, that doesn't mean Sollecito is innocent where did you take that?

Do we get points spotting who's innocent and who's not?

But this gets obvious:

Sollecito said he was at his home but could not remember if Knox was also there."I fail to understand why I would have participated in this murder with no motive," Sollecito told the court.

In other words "why I did it if it wasn't good for business?"

Claiming that you have no motive for a murder you're on trial for is actually a pretty strong defense.

Look, English is not my language so I can understand wrong. What I did understood from his sentence was that now he asks himself why he did it without a motive, but your comment makes me wonder if I misunderstand him and he tried to ask everyone why he would do it, thanks.

Her lawyer, Luciano Ghirga, put a comforting arm around her as she wept.

Oh yeah that's totally an admission of guilt.

[/quote]

No look, my point is not about if she's innocent or not, my point is to spot her behavior and the behavior of those around her, as I said, if you read the book I said, or about Mary Bell's case that little reference shows the empathy of the lawyer towards his client. Simple as that.

"Now it's up to you," Knox told the court on Thursday in an emotional statement in which she said she was "afraid of having the mask of a murderer forced upon me".

I mean duh, you are a murderer lol, the way she talk about masks remembers me when Jung talks about the mask we wear on society, like if some humans really wear a mask.

Well, I don't think it's an unusual statement for someone that's innocent. A quilty person could say exactly the same though, so again, it proves nothing.
[/quote]

Assuming she's innocent, we can find a lot of reasons to say she's innocent and that she's not innocent. Had you an experience with someone who is manipulator?. Where's the need on choosing the words "It's up to you"?, of course it's up to them, in a person with regular level of empathy, the person would be crying because of what she did not because of what's happening to her. I don't try to "prove" nothing, if you want proves ask someone who is professional, I'm sharing my observations about her and about everyone including you about this case. Also I'm reading about it and watching the video, so this is not my conclusion

Reading the article about the legal system from Italy, indeed, remembers me the same with Mary. Lot of people came to defend the girl Knoxy because of her emotional dramas.

Well, it could also be a possibility that people came to defend her because they believed her to be innocent, emotional drama put aside.

You talk about proves and then about beliefs, isn't that an oxymoron? The emotional drama is used as a tool to create empathy from others, I'm talking in that sense, not about evidence, facts, etc. And it's obvious people defend them because they believe they are innocent, or, if they have "proven" the contrary.

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Why mu quotes are not working?

 

[anart]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

It's interesting that this case evokes such emotional responses in this thread. No one, to my knowledge, participating in this thread actually knows this woman, and all the information that anyone here has is from the media - which necessarily means that all the information anyone has here is incomplete (if not wholly fabricated). Yet, those of you who defend her do so emotionally and with such certainty that it sounds like a discussion on facebook, not a discussion on the Cass forum.

A story about an American treated terribly by the Italians would be much more popular on American TV than a story about a pathological woman who participated in a murder and got what she deserved, then got released.

I don't have the true story of what happened here. What I do have is what this woman has said during this trial as reported by the media that indicates that - at the very least - she is devoid of empathy and a liar - and at the worst, that she is a murderer or at least actively took part in events that led to the death of another human being. I don't think I'll ever know for sure what she is, but I can state with certainty that her behavior has been pathological if one goes by what she has said and done during this trial - her own words, as reported. Whether she is pathological or not can't be determined one way or another from this vantage, but her behavior certainly has been. Is that behavior due to circumstances? Perhaps, but the behavior is what it is.

 

[cubbex]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

It's interesting that this case evokes such emotional responses in this thread. No one, to my knowledge, participating in this thread actually knows this woman, and all the information that anyone here has is from the media - which necessarily means that all the information anyone has here is incomplete (if not wholly fabricated). Yet, those of you who defend her do so emotionally and with such certainty that it sounds like a discussion on facebook, not a discussion on the Cass forum.

A story about an American treated terribly by the Italians would be much more popular on American TV than a story about a pathological woman who participated in a murder and got what she deserved, then got released.

I don't have the true story of what happened here. What I do have is what this woman has said during this trial as reported by the media that indicates that - at the very least - she is devoid of empathy and a liar - and at the worst, that she is a murderer or at least actively took part in events that led to the death of another human being. I don't think I'll ever know for sure what she is, but I can state with certainty that her behavior has been pathological if one goes by what she has said and done during this trial - her own words, as reported. Whether she is pathological or not can't be determined one way or another from this vantage, but her behavior certainly has been. Is that behavior due to circumstances? Perhaps, but the behavior is what it is.

I agree, completely agree. I mean Mechanic wrote that my comment does not prove nothing when I didn't tried to prove something. And also all I have is what a see and read from her, reading her behavior so to speak.

 

[Josi]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I don't have the true story of what happened here. What I do have is what this woman has said during this trial as reported by the media that indicates that - at the very least - she is devoid of empathy and a liar - and at the worst, that she is a murderer or at least actively took part in events that led to the death of another human being. I don't think I'll ever know for sure what she is, but I can state with certainty that her behavior has been pathological if one goes by what she has said and done during this trial - her own words, as reported. Whether she is pathological or not can't be determined one way or another from this vantage, but her behavior certainly has been. Is that behavior due to circumstances? Perhaps, but the behavior is what it is.

Well, two of the examples of her so called inappropriate behaviors:

1 - kissing her boyfriend the day after.

(Looked liked like small comforting kisses - not passionate making-out kissing.)

2 - shopping for underwear/clothes two days after murder.

(She had no clothes at that point, and needed to buy them, because her apartment was locked off.)

Just a couple of examples that stood out to me.

fwiw

 

[cubbex]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Indeed, look at 23:18 of the video, she's describing that she was scared with difficulty, expressed on her hands. The guy reading something from her says she was shocked because of the murder, I don't see it when she's kissing and shopping, I see her happy. Most of the people that say she was getting comfort from his boyfriend could be projecting the way they would be reacting, maybe...

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My mistake, I think she's having problems on the description because she's talking in english.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Hi Prometeo, I'm going to not address your reaction/reply to my previous post because, as Anart said, it sounds like a discussion on facebook right now, not a discussion on the Cass forum.

Anart, what you say is spot on, though I still think she's innocent and a victim of a zealous prosecutor. I don't know why I am emotionally driven to keep posting on a story like this, but I'll refrain from doing so to try and figure that out.

 

[Redrock12]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

One final post from me on this topic. The website _www.nojusticeinperugia.org gives extremely detailed information by highly qualified and impartial-initially anyway-forensic and investigate professionals,both American and Italian, which led to Amanda's appeal and subsequent acquittal.
Admittedly, this site was set up by Amanda's supporters, but the American investigators all initially believed Amanda was guilty until they started looking at the evidence, and were appalled at how it was carried out.
I might be wrong, but looking at what they uncovered and how the media falsely portrayed Amanda as "Foxy Noxy the she-devil" I can only conclude that labelling her as psychopathic is way off the mark.
But that's my take, fwiw.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Thanks RedRock12, that's a very interesting site. Though the url you posted doesn't work for me, Google Chrome suggested _www.injusticeinperugia.org, I think that's the url you meant.

 

[daveOS]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

A story about an American treated terribly by the Italians would be much more popular on American TV than a story about a pathological woman who participated in a murder and got what she deserved, then got released.

Anart, I really appreciate the Mignini theory advocacy you've represented, but I think your above statement demonstrates how your sensibilities run contrary to Hollywood while Mignini's run in perfect sync. That Lifetime movie capitalizing on the scapegoating of Amanda was all about a 'pathological woman who participated in a murder and got what she deserved'. They didn't even need the acquitted part.

Amanda Knox's Dad Disses Lifetime Movie With Hayden Panettiere
_http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/amanda-knoxs-dad-disses-l_n_999852.html

The 48-Hours news piece on Amanda (linked earlier) does a good job distinguishing some of the unscrupulous manipulations behind the PTB exploitation of the murder of Meredith Kercher, but huge reality-checks have been kept out of the the MSM circus spotlight. Veteran law enforcement puts reputations on the line with the Injustice in Perugia website, aggregating the justice violations used to falsely imprison.
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/

Though I've never met the families involved, I know families interwoven with their school community and as the details of the case have grown more generally known, many are aghast discovering the gross miscarriage of justice it represents appears to be blatant demonstration of crony corruption and power-broker abuse. Something many are only just beginning to clue into with 'The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo', making Harrison Koehli's recent - Men Who Hate Women: The Franklin Scandal and the Truth About Our Leaders - that much more riveting and relevant, as its creepy to see how openly Mignini and supporting prosecution spewed 'she-devil' and 'witch' declarations.


(note: I apologize for my lack of more proactive engagement of this dialog, but this case appears to be more pivotal for me and many others in this world than I realized when first exploring conversation about it, and the arrest of consciousness it appears to me to be engineered to induce seems to be working more effectively than I realized it had the potential for. :()

 

[anart]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

A story about an American treated terribly by the Italians would be much more popular on American TV than a story about a pathological woman who participated in a murder and got what she deserved, then got released.

Anart, I really appreciate the Mignini theory advocacy you've represented, but I think your above statement demonstrates how your sensibilities run contrary to Hollywood while Mignini's run in perfect sync. That Lifetime movie capitalizing on the scapegoating of Amanda was all about a 'pathological woman who participated in a murder and got what she deserved'. They didn't even need the acquitted part.

Well, Hollywood will capitalize on anything they can and play any side against the middle to do so - no question. I think that you're completely convinced that Knox was 'scapegoated' and I am by no means convinced that is the case.

I agree that the prosecutor is highly suspect and can't be trusted - but I see no reason to believe what Knox has said and her behavior throughout the trial gives me no reason to think that she is not lying. I don't think we'll come to a resolution on that here.

 

[chachazoom]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I think a different perception process takes place when identifying psychopathy, and a LOT has to do with gut feeling as well as clues. She makes me very uncomfortable and if I had to call it, I call it

 

[Joe]

Amanda Knox - Psychopath?

This story has been going on for several years. Accused with her ex boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, of killing Meredith Kercher in 2007, Amanda Knox and Sollecito were convicted in 2009, then freed on appeal in 2011 and now (today) have had that appeal overturned and their 26 and 25 year sentences reinstated. Sollecito is Italian and has had his passport confiscated, Knox however is back in the USA and must wait to see if the US govt. will extradite her.

There are many videos of her being interviewed by US and British press. She comes across as pretty cold in pretty much all of them. Does she fit the profile of a psychopath?

Check this video for example, and notice the smirk at about minute 1.30 after the reporter reads out a list of names she has been called by the press.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...KQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Joe]

Re: Amanda Knox - psychopath?

Another video that lays out the case against Knox. Pretty damning I have to say.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...NU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Rich]

Re: Amanda Knox - Psychopath?

Check this video for example, and notice the smirk at about minute 1.30 after the reporter reads out a list of names she has been called by the press! Gives me the creeps.

Yeah, see what you mean. Her eyes brighten up and then she seems to quickly censor herself. Matches well with the next 'case against knox' video you posted at 8:56 where the presenter talks about the incongruency between her verbal and non verbal language.- She wants to giggle but realises she needs to appear sullen.

 

[Rich]

Re: Amanda Knox - psychopath?

Found the Diane Sawyer interview where she is asked a question says "no" but nods her head:

http://<iframe width="560" height="...u8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>