Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

[Seamus]

You should understand, there's no lack of lame and boring people who have nothing to say other than picking on others for their opinions, and if you're cozy being one of those - it's your choice, but you should ask yourself at the end of the day: do you really matter?

mbww, did you actually realize that one of the hosts is speaking to you? Beau is an Admin and if any host gives you heads up about your behavior, you should think twice and take the lesson or leave the party.

Seriously. Maybe you should check out the comments over at Zerohedge, from what I can tell you might fit in better over there.

 

[flashgordonv]

The number of cases in New Zealand currently stands at 67, of which only 3 have required hospitalization, (and zero deaths). The other 64 are at home doing self isolation. Two cases are under investigation as there does not seem to be a link to overseas travel so may be a result of infection through community contact. If they confirm that, they will likely ramp up the alert level to 3 for the regions these people live in.

Supermarkets have now brought in purchase restrictions whereby people can only purchase 2 items of particular in demand (read panic purchased) products. Other than that, things are pretty quiet and the only hysteria visible tends to be on overseas news channels available here like Al Jazeera and the BBC.

Social media locally is very politicised, with opponents to the current government wholesale bagging their CV efforts and proponents staunchly defending them. Very predictable.

The surprising thing on social media is the number of people, who are so aware of media misreporting, or who are staunch anti-vaxxers, or aware of 9/11 issues etc, who have bought the whole narrative lock stock and barrel. And these people are virulent in their attacks on anybody sharing an alternative message. Really illuminating stuff.

 

[angelburst29]

Falsely translated? I think there is a fair possibility that it is no coincidence that Defender Europe is happening at this point.

I just heard it by total accident on a livestream of healing nature. It striked me as a very high number indeed. I really hope they are mis-informed but I thought it would be good to post it. And then I saw @Konstantin posted the same info. Better to be safe than sorry. And to know whats what. I guess we will see soon. If there are that many they have a purpose. And with this ID2020 crap thats not good.

Found this on merkur.de

Strange. If it would have been just one source reporting much higher numbers of US-Soldiers in germany and Italy I would have been more inclined to think it is just a mistake. But those higher numbers come from several different sources one would expect to be fairly reliable in that regard. So indeed, are there much more Soldiers coming than officially stated?

I do not trust NATO's Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg! This article is 2 days old and states, "Some of our exercises have been modified or canceled ... but our forces remain ready,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told a video news conference.

A few Posts back, I reported that Switzerland had mobilized 8000 of it's Military to protect it's Borders. Switzerland is a neutral Country.
In many news reports, Countries are doing the same - calling out their Military to protect Borders or have thousands on stand-by. Esper, Pompeo, Stoltenberg and Pentagon Top Brass were all in Afghanistan about 2 weeks ago, for several days. I sense, the Big get-together had little to do with the drama play they were putting on with the Taliban and moving a few military soldiers out in a draw-down. They didn't need Pentagon Top Brass involved (on location) with that situation. Something more was going on?

NATO scales down exercises due to coronavirus
BRUSSELS - NATO is scaling down military exercises in Europe to curb the spread of the coronavirus, but alliance missions are continuing, including the drawdown of the U.S.-led force in Afghanistan following a peace agreement last month.

“Some of our exercises have been modified or canceled ... but our forces remain ready,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told a video news conference.

The U.S. Army has already announced a halt to movement of military personnel from the United States to Europe and said it plans to scale down its Defender Europe 20 exercises, billed as NATO’s biggest war games in Europe since the Cold War.

Stoltenberg encouraged NATO countries to maintain their military spending despite the economic shock of the virus outbreak, because of the role the military can play in helping to fight it.

“We see that in many allied countries, the armed forces are providing support,” Stoltenberg said, citing logistics, border security, military hospitals and other medical support.

Stoltenberg said there had been no reports of infections of the disease among members of NATO’s military mission in Afghanistan and that troops would continue to come home as agreed under a U.S. peace deal with the Taliban last month.

The head of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan said on Thursday that there was a temporary pause in new troops moving into the country, however.

U.S. General Scott Miller said that additionally, 1,500 service members, civilians and contractors who arrived within the past week would be staying in screening facilities as a precaution.

Germany said on Tuesday its troops going in and out of Afghanistan from Germany would be quarantined for 14 days to avoid the virus spreading into military operations.

NATO’s train-and-advise mission in Afghanistan will draw down to around 12,000 personnel from 16,000 over the next 135 days, Stoltenberg said, although he said this would depend on the Taliban continuing to reduce violence.

NATO is taking preventative measures across all its operations, including regularly taking the temperatures of its personnel, officials have said.

Italy to use army to enforce coronavirus lockdown in worst-hit region
Malaysia to deploy army amid movement curbs to contain coronavirus
Albania deploys troops to enforce 40-hour coronavirus curfew
UK puts military on standby, queen addresses anxious nation

 

[thorbiorn]

I’d also like to know what’s behind a few of us getting these intense hot flashes, panic/anxiety and insomnia issues of late.

What about changes in the DNA?

 

[Seamus]

Still catching up with this thread
What is your take on this article:

A Medical Worker Describes Terrifying Lung Failure From COVID-19 — Even in His Young Patients

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube.”

www.propublica.org

From the article:

Since last week, he’s [the doctor being interviewed] been running ventilators for the sickest COVID-19 patients. Many are relatively young, in their 40s and 50s, and have minimal, if any, preexisting conditions in their charts. He is overwhelmed, stunned by the manifestation of the infection, both its speed and intensity. The ICU where he works has essentially become a coronavirus unit. He estimates that his hospital has admitted dozens of confirmed or presumptive coronavirus patients. About a third have ended up on ventilators.

This doesn't sound like what we've been reading about from Italy, at least not what's been shared in this thread. Off the top of my head the statistics I can remember are that 99% of the moralities in Italy have at least 1 serious illness, almost 50% have 3 serious illnesses, the average age of death is 80.3 years old and only 2 people under 40 have died, one with cancer and one with diabetes. That's what I remember reading in the past few days.

So my thoughts are:

1. This could be a hoax article meant to stir up fear. The article says "We are withholding his name and employer, as he fears retaliation." so it could be real or it could be made up for clicks.
2. This could be a different strain of the virus, or a different virus with similar symptoms?
3. These patients may be developing ARDS because of previous vaccination as mentioned here: On the Origins of the 2019-nCoV Virus, Wuhan, China
   
   

   The very researchers conducting studies on SARS vaccines have cautioned repeatedly against human trials:
   
   “An early concern for application of a SARS-CoV vaccine was the experience with other coronavirus infections which induced enhanced disease and immunopathology in animals when challenged with infectious virus [31], a concern reinforced by the report that animals given an alum adjuvanted SARS vaccine and subsequently challenged with SARS-CoV exhibited an immunopathologic lung reaction reminiscent of that described for respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) in infants and in animal models given RSV vaccine and challenged naturally (infants) or artificially (animals) with RSV [32], [33]. We and others described a similar immunopathologic reaction in mice vaccinated with a SARS-CoV vaccine and subsequently challenged with SARS-CoV [18], [20], [21], [28]. It has been proposed that the nucleocapsid protein of SARS-CoV is the antigen to which the immunopathologic reaction is directed [18], [21]. Thus, concern for proceeding to humans with candidate SARS-CoV vaccines emerged from these various observations.” – Tseng et al.,
   
   The disease progression in of 2019-nCoV is consistent with those seen in animals and humans vaccinated against SARS and then challenged with re-infection. Thus, the hypothesis that 2019-nCoV is an experimental vaccine type must be seriously considered.

   
   
   
4. The virus could be worse than we think.

Just my two cents.

 

[Seamus]

In case anyone is interested in Chinese herbal remedies that may be effective against COVID-19 and similar viruses, here is some information about how we think about managing these types of illnesses and what might be effective.

While doing a bit more research I came across a literature review from the Chinese Journal of Integrative Medicine accepted in February 2020 titled "Can Chinese Medicine Be Used for Prevention of Corona Virus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)? A Review of Historical Classics, Research Evidence and Current Prevention Programs". It has much more information than my original post and discusses a very similar strategy but concludes that "At present, the National Health Commission of China has not issued a CM prevention program for COVID-19".

You can find the paper here: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s11655-020-3192-6.pdf and I will attach a pdf to this post.

 

[Michael B-C]

Just a thought. This is such an important thread and valuable for so many reasons to so many of us - but its really demanding to keep up (I notice increasing posts for members who maybe are working full time or have other demands and they're finding they have to go back 10-20 pages at a go to catch up - and by the time they get there there's another7!)

Would it be an idea to say split it into three variants on the same theme?

e.g.
Geopolitical/Media
C's transcripts and insights
Personal experience, concerns,

I know that's far from ideal but there is so much going on here that I find, even giving it all the spare hours I can, I'm struggling... beginng to feel like we're all running a marathon and we've only just got over the start line!

We don't need to stress each other!

Obviously ignore the above. Hadn't given due thought to the implications for extra work involved for others especially mods. My apologies.

We all accept hard work here - I just find myself wanting to read and support everyone's posts as this time is so important that we align more and really support each other - and so much written here deserves time for digestion and contemplation. But hey ho - sands of time are running and the Wave is rolling! Just better keep up or fall behind! No chance!

 

[Jasophoria]

I skipped reading a few pages, so sorry if this is already up.

Although i think its already here somewhere because it is a bit old.

 

[Seamus]

These patients may be developing ARDS because of previous vaccination as mentioned here: On the Origins of the 2019-nCoV Virus, Wuhan, China

Here's more information in that vein from the same source: SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine Recommended Readings

My understanding is that animal studies suggest that certain types of vaccines can trigger a massive inflammatory overreaction in the subjects when they are exposed to the live virus. So its possible that the types of cases that are described in the article @Deckard posted may be caused by prior vaccination.

SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine Recommended Readings
Immunization with inactivated Middle East Respiratory Syndrome coronavirus vaccine leads to lung immunopathology on challenge with live virus. “Lung mononuclear infiltrates occurred in all groups after virus challenge but with increased infiltrates that contained eosinophils and increases in the eosinophil promoting IL-5 and IL-13 cytokines only in the vaccine groups. Inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine appears to carry a hypersensitive-type lung pathology risk from MERS-CoV infection that is similar to that found with inactivated SARS-CoV vaccines from SARS-CoV infection.” Immunization with inactivated Middle East Respiratory Syndrome coronavirus vaccine leads to lung immunopathology on challenge with live virus. - PubMed - NCBI

Vaccine efficacy in senescent mice challenged with recombinant SARS-CoV bearing epidemic and zoonotic spike variants.“VRP-N vaccines not only failed to protect from homologous or heterologous challenge, but resulted in enhanced immunopathology with eosinophilic infiltrates within the lungs of SARS-CoV-challenged mice. VRP-N-induced pathology presented at day 4, peaked around day 7, and persisted through day 14, and was likely mediated by cellular immune responses.” Vaccine efficacy in senescent mice challenged with recombinant SARS-CoV bearing epidemic and zoonotic spike variants. - PubMed - NCBI

Immunization with Modified Vaccinia Virus Ankara-Based Recombinant Vaccine against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Is Associated with Enhanced Hepatitis in Ferrets “Immunized ferrets developed a more rapid and vigorous neutralizing antibody response than control animals after challenge with SARS-CoV; however, they also exhibited strong inflammatory responses in liver tissue.”
Immunization with Modified Vaccinia Virus Ankara-Based Recombinant Vaccine against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Is Associated with Enhanced Hepatitis in Ferrets

Animal Models for SARS and MERS coronaviruses. “The concern that is extrapolated from the FIPV vaccine experience to human SARS-CoV vaccines is whether vaccine recipients will develop more severe disease if they are exposed to or infected with SARS-CoV after neutralizing antibody titers decline. The second concern is whether recipients of a SARSCoV vaccine would be at risk of developing pulmonary immunopathology following infection with an unrelated human coronavirus e.g. 229E, OC43, HKU1 or NL63 that usually causes mild, self limited disease. Although findings from preclinical evaluation have revealed these concerns, studies in animal models may not be able to provide data to confirm or allay these concerns.” Animal models for SARS and MERS coronaviruses
Caution Urged on SARS Vaccines | Science

Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate “…a study on his team’s efforts to engineer a virus with the surface protein of the SHC014 coronavirus, found in horseshoe bats in China, and the backbone of one that causes human-like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in mice. The hybrid virus could infect human airway cells and caused disease in mice…”
Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate

Certainly additional advances have been made in attempts to make Spike-protein related vaccines safer. Feel free to post additional recommended reading.

RECOMMDED RELATED:
CLEAR EVIDENCE it is NOT a Bioweapon. So What’s All This About ACE2 and nCoV-2019 (COVID-2019)?
2019-nCov Vaccine Recommended Readings
Why over the next two weeks the world will learn how bad the 2019 nCoV Coronavirus Pandemic will be

 

[Sol Logos]

How do we distinguish disease from distress? For example I've heard it's common that when a life partner dies, the remaining partner becomes sick and often dies shortly afterwards. If it's not simple to distinguish, how much can we separate the fear, panic and terror spreading from the spread of disease associated with this virus? What extent of terror and the belief disseminated with it will compromise our individual immune systems? I've noticed there's less and less critical sources of information about all this. I wonder if the disease is more a spiritual one than a physical one we are witnessing?

 

[adam7117]

Watch the whole thing starting at 53:20! Trump did send a definitive message for everyone with eyes to see and ears to hear right there... He exposed Pompeo and his cronies brilliantly there. Every time Pompeo tried to weasel himself out facing the questions of the reporters Trump pushed him back on stage to answer the questions. Just brilliant.

Thanks for posting a link to the whole thing - very interesting! Nice work.

The context is very important here and the discussion was about China deliberately withholding emergent disease information from the rest of the world. This wasted precious time.

My reading here is that Trump is agreeing with Pompeo and says, "They should have let us know." I also get the distinct impression that while the relationship between the two is tense, it is not antagonistic - they work as a team. Trump even pokes fun at Pompeo and refers to the Deep State Department!

It is also interesting that when Trump speaks of his deep respect for China, Pompeo's face turns as if he was chewing on a Wuhan bat. Clearly, he does not share Trump's sentiments on this topic.

 

[dantem]

When in the last session the C's said that
This are photos from Slovak Parliament, and President accepting resignation of former PM. View attachment 34428

How ironic that this should be applauded actually! In Italy the parliament has been vacated, it's empty!! The President, the Prime Minister along with the Health plus Civil Protection Offices run and coordinate all the Regioni/Compartments of Italy. A dictatorship of the few? Aaand, voilà, from tomorrow and on, a whole bunch of new restrictions! The PM went live on 22:45 to explain it all... Wartime-like for sure.

 

[Beau]

You should understand, there's no lack of lame and boring people who have nothing to say other than picking on others for their opinions, and if you're cozy being one of those - it's your choice, but you should ask yourself at the end of the day: do you really matter?

I wasn't picking on you (sensitive much?), just giving you feedback on your behavior here. That is one of the purposes of this forum. Just posting opinions that are nothing but noise is the opposite of what this place is here for. Maybe you'd like to read up on a few threads that discuss opinions and the forum purpose?

Forum Guidelines
Opinions

 

[anka]

My friend shared a video from SGT Report where they discussed a document from 2010 prepared by The Rockefeller Foundation & Global Business Network, part of which includes a projection into the future. Similarities are striking so I thought it's worth sharing here.
Bolded text by me.

Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development
The Rockefeller Foundation & Global Business Network
[page 18]

Scenario Narratives

LOCK STEP
A world of tighter top-down government control and more authoritarian leadership,
with limited innovation and growing citizen pushback

In 2012, the pandemic that the world had been anticipating for years finally hit. Unlike 2009’s H1N1, this new influenza strain — originating from wild geese — was extremely virulent and deadly. Even the most pandemic-prepared nations were quickly overwhelmed when the virus streaked around the world, infecting nearly 20 percent of the global population and killing 8 million in just seven months, the majority of them healthy young adults. The pandemic also had a deadly effect on economies: international mobility of both people and goods screeched to a halt, debilitating industries like tourism and breaking global supply chains. Even locally, normally bustling shops and office buildings sat empty for months, devoid of both employees and customers.

The pandemic blanketed the planet — though disproportionate numbers died in Africa, Southeast Asia, and Central America, where the virus spread like wildfire in the absence of official containment protocols. But even in developed countries, containment was a challenge. The United States’s initial policy of “strongly discouraging” citizens from flying proved deadly in its leniency, accelerating the
spread of the virus not just within the U.S. but across borders. However, a few countries did fare better — China in particular. The Chinese government’s quick imposition and enforcement of mandatory quarantine for all citizens, as well as its instant and near-hermetic sealing off of all borders, saved millions of lives, stopping the spread of the virus far earlier than in other countries and enabling a swifter post-pandemic recovery.

China’s government was not the only one that took extreme measures to protect its citizens from risk and exposure. During the pandemic, national leaders around the world flexed their authority and imposed airtight rules and restrictions, from the mandatory wearing of face masks to body-temperature checks at the entries to communal spaces like train stations and supermarkets. Even after the pandemic faded, this more authoritarian control and oversight of citizens and their activities stuck and even intensified. In order to protect themselves from the spread of increasingly global problems — from pandemics and transnational terrorism to environmental crises and rising poverty — leaders around the world took a firmer grip on power.

At first, the notion of a more controlled world gained wide acceptance and approval. Citizens willingly gave up some of their sovereignty — and their privacy — to more paternalistic states in exchange for greater safety and stability. Citizens were more tolerant, and even eager, for top-down direction and oversight, and national leaders had more latitude to impose order in the ways they saw fit. In developed countries, this heightened oversight took many forms: biometric IDs for all citizens, for example, and tighter regulation of key industries whose stability was deemed vital to national interests. In many developed countries, enforced cooperation with a suite of new regulations and agreements slowly but steadily restored both order and, importantly, economic growth.

Across the developing world, however, the story was different — and much more variable. Top-down authority took different forms in different countries, hinging largely on the capacity, caliber, and intentions of their leaders. In countries with strong and thoughtful leaders, citizens’ overall economic status and quality of life increased. In India, for example, air quality drastically improved after 2016, when the government outlawed high-emitting vehicles.

In Ghana, the introduction of ambitious government programs to improve basic infrastructure and ensure the availability of clean water for all her people led to a sharp decline in water-borne diseases. But more authoritarian leadership worked less well — and in some cases tragically — in countries run by irresponsible elites who used their increased power to pursue their own interests at the expense of their citizens.

“IT IS POSSIBLE TO DISCIPLINE AND CONTROL SOME SOCIETIES FOR SOME TIME,
BUT NOT THE WHOLE WORLD ALL THE TIME.”
– GK Bhat, TARU Leading Edge, India

There were other downsides, as the rise of virulent nationalism created new hazards: spectators at the 2018 World Cup, for example, wore bulletproof vests that sported a patch of their national flag. Strong technology regulations stifled innovation, kept costs high, and curbed adoption. In the developing world, access to “approved” technologies increased but beyond that remained limited: the locus of technology innovation was largely in the developed world, leaving many developing countries on the receiving end of technologies that others consider “best” for them.

Some governments found this patronizing and refused to distribute computers and other technologies that they scoffed at as “second hand.” Meanwhile, developing countries with more resources and better capacity began to innovate internally to fill these gaps on their own.

Meanwhile, in the developed world, the presence of so many top-down rules and norms greatly inhibited entrepreneurial activity. Scientists and innovators were often told by governments what research lines to pursue and were guided mostly toward projects that would make money (e.g., market-driven product development) or were “sure bets” (e.g., fundamental research), leaving more risky or innovative research areas largely untapped. Well-off countries and monopolistic companies with big research and development budgets still made significant advances, but the IP behind their breakthroughs remained locked behind strict national or corporate protection.

Russia and India imposed stringent domestic standards for supervising and certifying encryption-related products and their suppliers — a category that in reality meant all IT innovations. The U.S. and EU struck back with retaliatory national standards, throwing a wrench in the development and diffusion of technology globally.

Especially in the developing world, acting in one’s national self-interest often meant seeking practical alliances that fit with those interests — whether it was gaining access to needed resources or banding together in order to achieve economic growth. In South America and Africa, regional and sub-regional alliances became more structured. Kenya doubled its trade with southern and eastern Africa, as new partnerships grew within the continent.

China’s investment in Africa expanded as the bargain of new jobs and infrastructure in exchange for access to key minerals or food exports proved agreeable to many governments. Cross-border ties proliferated in the form of official security aid. While the deployment of foreign security teams was welcomed in some of the most dire failed states, one-size-fits-all solutions yielded few positive results.

By 2025, people seemed to be growing weary of so much top-down control and letting leaders and authorities make choices for them.

Wherever national interests clashed with individual interests, there was conflict. Sporadic pushback became increasingly organized and coordinated, as disaffected youth and people who had seen their status and opportunities slip away — largely in developing countries — incited civil unrest. In 2026, protestors in Nigeria brought down the government, fed up with the entrenched cronyism and corruption. Even those who liked the greater stability and predictability of this world began to grow uncomfortable and constrained by so many tight rules and by the strictness of national boundaries. The feeling lingered that sooner or later, something would inevitably upset the neat order that the world’s governments had worked so hard to establish. •

The full document can be downloaded here.

For those interested, here's the SGT Report video:

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Thanks for posting a link to the whole thing - very interesting! Nice work.

The context is very important here and the discussion was about China deliberately withholding emergent disease information from the rest of the world. This wasted precious time.

My reading here is that Trump is agreeing with Pompeo and says, "They should have let us know." I also get the distinct impression that while the relationship between the two is tense, it is not antagonistic - they work as a team. Trump even pokes fun at Pompeo and refers to the Deep State Department!

And right before that Trump says, "Sure is." As in, he's agreeing with what Pompeo just said. (Or alternatively, contradicting Pompeo who just said, "This is not about retribution." I think that might be less likely, though.)