Crash of German Wings Flight over French Alps

[luc]

Condolences and prayers to the passengers crew and the effected familys.

Yes, it's really terrible, imagine driving to the airport to pick up your loved one(s), and then hearing the news... Condolences to all those who lost someone.

 

[Tristan]

Given the weather conditions were optimal at the time of the incident and do not believe the plane had technical failures, there is the possibility of meteor apart from explanations already mentioned

I've gathered some testimonials reported by local sources and many talk about an explosion....

---Using Google translator to translate into English--

In early afternoon, the prosecutor of Marseilles Brice Robin spoke. He recounted what he had seen from the helicopter that flew over the crash zone. "The plane exploded. The bodies are heavily damaged. There are some pieces of exploded cabin. It's very impressive." on the evaluation of the drama, the magistrate floated a little hope: "A priori, there are no survivors, but according to the latest information, there may be a body that moves."

Lieutenant Colonel Jean-Paul Bloy, commanding the Southern Air Forces Group, said the bodies of the victims were "relatively scattered over an area of one hectare," "very rough" and "difficult to access." It may be time to evacuate the body. "

http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-provence/2015/03/24/un-a320-s-ecrase-dans-la-zone-de-barcelonnette

"Some of their clients, however, felt that something was wrong at 10am this morning. "I was working on a noisy machine but my employee who warned me of a thump, testifies Hermitte Joel, a carpenter in the Haut-Vernet. We then saw two columns of black smoke, but we thought it 'was a shed that had burned down. "

http://www.laprovence.com/actu/faits-divers-en-direct/3327362/crash-a320-temoignage-exclusif-un-bruit-sourd.html

A farmer from a village near the crash zone said he heard a "thud reactor" when the Airbus A320 crashed this morning in the Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, with 144 passengers on board and 6 crew, reports Europe 1.

"I heard a noise from my porch in the morning between 10 and 11 hours." "I went out but at the time, we do not demand too much because when you are in the mountains, often there are dynamites that are launched or avalanches are triggered with rock falls," she adds.

"I think I saw it before it crashes", told Europe 1 Jean-Paul, a resident of Meolans Revel. "I saw a plane flying a little lower than usual, that's what caught my attention." "He was still at 4,000 meters above sea level, therefore, for me, there was nothing to worry about," he says.

At the same time, Jean-Marie, a resident of Prads-Haute-Bléone not far from the drama, said he saw the plane flew very low altitude. "I then saw a white plane with the tail of the fuselage orange," said the farmer Parisien. "Sometimes we see private aircraft, but this big, it's rare. For me, the plane was flying very low, less than 800 meters from the ground, for sure, "he said to the newspaper.

He added, "at noon, I began to see a column of smoke rising into the air from the window of the house."

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2015/03/24/97001-20150324FILWWW00298-crash-a320-des-temoins-racontent.php

 

[Joe]

9 min descent from 38,000ft to below 10,000ft at a relatively high speed, not a vertical drop, radar lost at 6500ft probably due to it being in the mountains, but most importantly, no engine noise during descent and no communication from pilots. That suggests EMP from space rock explosion. Very sorry for all passengers. Ordinary German families with kids coming back from holidays. Why doesn't this kind of thing happen to people who might be more deserving?

 

[stellar]

Certainly this was no emergency landing, looking at the images it seems like the plane completely disintegrated. Images e.g. here: _http://www.airlive.net/2015/03/breaking-crash-of-a320-in-south-of.html

I too found that very odd. If it went to pieces on impact the debris would have been more localised, I think, but the dispersal of parts over two adjoining ridges makes me think it blew apart while still quite high. EMP has crossed my mind.
So sad for the families.

 

[Ellipse]

9 min descent from 38,000ft to below 10,000ft at a relatively high speed, not a vertical drop, radar lost at 6500ft probably due to it being in the mountains, but most importantly, no engine noise during descent and no communication from pilots. That suggests EMP from space rock explosion. Very sorry for all passengers. Ordinary German families with kids coming back from holidays. Why doesn't this kind of thing happen to people who might be more deserving?

The EMP hypothesis seem to be a good one. I checked if A320 have mechanical backup flight and from what I understand the answer is not so simple. It seem that there's no real cables to backup but HYD (Hydraulic power) system. If you have completely lost all power the HYD does not work but... in a case like the one we are discussing, the power should come from the engines themselves, acting like a dynamo. It's OK but without motors power, I don't know if it's very useful...

---Trash Hauler---
I don't know about the FADECs used on the engines for the Airbus fleet however I have some experience with FADECs on C130J.

They are guaranteed to be self sufficient above 12% Ng, powered by the permenant magnet generator on the engine. The power levers and fire handles are hardwired to the FADECs so engine control is maintained in the event of total electrical failure.

On a maintenance run we shut off all generators and then the both batteries. The flight deck was dark, all computers powered down but the engines were still operating and full control in the flight range was available from the power levers. The final part of our little test was shutting down with the fire handle. Again it worked as advertised.

I suspect the same type of system on the Airbus fleet.

---As I See It---
Mr Trash Hauler, you are correct in your assumption with regard to the A320 (have done some reading on this, believe me), but the fact remains there is no mechanical back up and it would seem the same with the C130. Lets assume worst case the DDG failed as well, then gliding would follow.
As it happens an inop DDG is a no go, kind of makes sense now!

It is not only As I See It, but it would also seem As It Is

---alatriste---
Mechanical backup ( THS and rudder) is ONLY usable if HYD power is available.
It permits the pilot to control the aircraft during a complete loss of ELECTRICAL POWER. (all computers are gone)

Just think the reason why AIRBUS named the HYD system as Green, Blue and Yellow instead of the classic Left, Center and Right. Green, Blue and Yellow in this precise order cause if you loose all Hyd systems you are DEAD, and then AIRBUS just tell you:

" God Bless You"

source: _http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-170325.html

Now, about EMP effects on plane, I found a discussion saying that planes are "immunised", if not, lightning would always fried the electronic. I don't know if EMP coming from a fireball explosion is the equivalent. Certainly more powerful. Perhaps at a certain level, everything and everybody is "fried". More investigations needed.

 

[stellar]

Come to think of it the plane would have been fully fuelled so soon after take off. Wouldn't there be signs of burning?

 

[aragorn]

I find it a bit odd, that the early tweets about the disaster said that there was a distress call by the pilot. And now this fact(?) has been corrected all over the internet - there was no distress call.

AirLive.net:
BREAKING Authorities confirm last words from #germanwings #4U9525 A320 distress call were "emergency, emergency"

RT:
RECAP: #4U9525 issued distress signal at 09.47GMT, 52 mins after taking off from Barcelona

CBS This Morning:
#Germanwings Airbus A320 plane was almost 25 yrs old, has excellent safety record. Distress signal sent 10:47am local time.

Guillaume[user]:
@airlivenet this is not a regular emergency message ... "Mayday" or "pan pan" but never "emergency emergency"

MineForNothing:
Germanwings flight apparently crashed (10:20 GMT) 33 minutes after its distress call (9:47 GMT)

Some questions come to mind:

Did an EMP-explosion take out the electronic equipment on board, including communications? Is that the reason - if there was a distress call - it took 33min for it to crash, because they were "taken out" by this explosion, but still in one piece? However, if there was a distress call, how could they make it if the EMP-explosion took out communications? Or did something else happen first, that made them send a distress signal? If a plane crashes at high speed into a mountain, does it disintegrate into such tiny pieces, or is there some other reason for the almost-pulverization of the plane?

 

[Joe]

I think the "confusion" around whether or not there was a distress call is evidence of a cover up, and there was no distress call:

"Riddle over why pilots didn't send SOS despite falling 32,000ft in eight minutes"

Early reports said the pilots issued a Mayday signal and requested an emergency descent after reaching 38,000ft
But sources later denied air traffic controllers received any such call, saying it was them that declared emergency

ATC probably issued an emergency call to the plane during those 9 minutes when it plummeted 32,000ft. with not a peep from the plane. No wonder.

A distress call is important for the eventual official narrative that it was some form of mechanical failure. Same story with AF447 over the pacific.

The last thing they will ever admit is that an meteorite explosion was responsible, for obvious reasons.

Good images here

_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3009151/headlines-news-Germanwings-plane-crash-french-alps-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette-Barcelona-Dusseldorf-francois-hollande-Lufthansa-4U9525.html

they show smoking debris and blackened ground likely from jet fuel fire. And yes, very small pieces, the odd largish piece also. I suppose it's plausible that if a plane with a decent amount of fuel on board crashed nose first (more or less) at a steep angle into a mountain at 700kmph(400mph) it would explode into a fireball on impact scattering small parts of the plane across a wide enough area.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

First data:

Flight GWI9525, an Airbus A320 operated by the Germanwings airline travelling between Barcelona and Dusseldorf, has crashed in southern France.

Travelling from Barcelona, the flight crashed near the Alpine town of Barcelonnette.

142 passengers and 8 crew on board, all feared dead.

French civil aviation authority says the crew had sent a distress signal at 10.47am local time (9.47am GMT) – 46 minutes after take-off

The crash site has been found by investigators

The cause of the crash remains unclear

I'm not really being serious here, but given the possible 'high strangeness' nature of flight disappearances, the fact that the plane left Barcelona and crashed near Barcelonette, made me think of the "marker" reference in the last session, about people being taken and then put back at a "marker" site.

There is always the overhead space rock angle too.

When I spotted that the flight crashed near the town of Barcelonnette, this was my first thought, that someething more is going on there, than just one engine failure.

Also CNN video report was quite obvious in exposing the failure of Lufthansa, it sounded like a crash was a set up to make Germany looks more unsecure, specialy with folowing the Frankfurt mess the other day, that also feel strange, how they wanted to emphesize for few minutes how germanwings is actualy lufthansa brand, and in between the lines teliing that Germany is not that "perfect" in ability to secure their citizens as most of the world thinks ...

Also a week ago few explosions over Zagreb, around noon, were heard, but they reported it as a break of sound barrier, but they didn't report from what and why?

strange indeed .... :(

 

[Ca.]

People from village nearby says that he didn't see plane but heard some loud booms, so that can be some stone fragment from space. Can be that or crash boom sound.

Like sessions have indicated that these space rocks tend drags smaller boulder's with them. Given the more powerful earth gravitational forces and the LD was some what close. It would not be inconceivable to imagine smaller practicals, (say the size of a refrigerator) made of iron ore (and or a plasma discharge), doing the damage this flight may have experienced upon entry.

Like small Tunguska event. No prize here, it just continues to have more frequency now i suppose.


Also the recent event March 15, 2015 from the International Meteor Organization.
http://www.imo.net/node/1609
Fireball With Sonic Booms Over Germany and Switzerland

The IMO has received over 45 reports of a bright fireball meteor over Germany and Switzerland that occurred on March 15th, around 19:48 Universal Time. Witnesses from Germany, Switzerland, France and Austria reported the event to the International Meteor Organization. Robin from Tuttlingen reported: "The fireball was so bright that it illuminated the sky and landscape around me to twilight brightness levels."

Seven witness near Zurich reported a rumbling boom sound shortly after the fireball appeared. A witness outside of Zurich described the boom by saying, "About two minutes after the fireball there was a considerably strong sonic boom

From JPL Twitter page
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/asteroidwatch/
20 Mar
Asteroid Watch ✔ @AsteroidWatch

2 small asteroids will safely pass Earth today: 2015 FF passes at 4.15 lunar distance & 2015 EG7 at 2.7 LD. 1 LD=238,857 mi/384,403 km

Sounds like earth is going through a debris field.

 

[Paragon]

Pretty shocked to see yet another crash of an airliner recently. Seem to be happening more often for some reason!

I'm a bit of an aviation enthusiast and I check on a site called pprune from time to time, as it has professional pilots discuss everything related to things going up in the air.

Well I was reading some of the talk about this awful crash and there was some speculation about a military aircraft declaring an emergency at around the same time as the A320 started it's descent.

EDIT- This is from one of the discussions on the pprune site

Ok, lets just clear this up...

MM7168 (NOT the Airbus) squawks 7700 at 09:35 GMT, which is 10:35am Central European Time (Promise!) just to the East in Northern Italy.

The Airbus, started the rapid descent at 09:31 GMT, or 10:31 CET.

We're confident that there's zero connection?

As soon as I saw this I thought it could be related to an overhead meteorite event.

Also there is speculation that it could be something to do with a decompression accident, leading to hypoxia and loss of consciousness, as at FL380 there is not much time for useful consciousness at all, around 10-20 seconds. But there are holes in that theory because one of the first things you do apparently, is immediately don the oxygen mask before anything else, so unless there was a fault in that system, then they would have been able to communicate and control the plane etc.

Strange

 

[sitting]

The last thing they will ever admit is that an meteorite explosion was responsible, for obvious reasons.

Another possibility is that we just haven't seen ALL the varieties of high strangeness presently descending on planet earth. And that something previously unknown may be at work here.

C's did say often we ain't seen nuttin' yet.

 

[ROEL]

This event begs a question to the Cs next time there is a session.

 

[nicklebleu]

Yes, weird case - another airline that crashes while on cruise altitude, which is very unusual.

As to the distress call - the plane switched it's transponder to 7700 (which is the international transponder signal for an emergency) a few minutes before the crash, as many flight following websites have noted.

And if the pilots were strugglling to keep the aircraft afloat they might not have had any time to contact ATC. What is strange though is that there was not deviation of course, which given the circumstances is weird. Normally a pilot having a major problem wouldn't keep heading towards the mountains, he would turn the aircraft around and head for lower ground, possibly the ocean or another airport to try to ditch the plane.

Another thing to consider might be sudden cabin depressurization which would warrant en emergency descent, but the descent then would have been faster and not all the way down to below 10'000 feet - once you are around 10'000 feet you are safe from an oxygen perspective.

So high strangeness indeed.

 

[Minas Tirith]

Indeed strange.

An unexplained descent lasting eight minutes began about 45 minutes into the flight. The plane dropped from its cruising altitude of 38,000ft to 6,000ft. Contact was lost at 10.53am, when the plane was at 6,000ft. The French aviation regulator has said no distress call was issued, despite earlier reports to the contrary. In the last 10 minutes of the flight there was total radio silence.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/24/germanwings-airbus-a320-crashes-in-french-alps-live-updates

Does that mean the contact was there (obviously, since it got only lost at 6.000 feet), but there was complete silence? Wouldn't that indicate that everyone was unconscious? But why then could the plane drop so controlled? Autopilot? Eight minutes is a long time ...
EDIT: Just saw, EMF, yeah, that makes sense ...


Reminds me of the little ghost on the Economist 2015 cover which is holding a travel brochure
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,15568.msg560289.html#msg560289
Not safe to travel to foreign shores anymore ...

EDIT: Geez, the ghost is depicted in front of German chancellor Angela Merkel with Hollande in the background

M.T.