Crash of German Wings Flight over French Alps

[rs]

I don't know why but the first thing that I thought of when I read about this was that it was a CFIT incident. "Controlled Flight Into Terrain".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_flight_into_terrain

Now the "High Strangeness" aspect is why would this have occurred? Why no pilot messages? They were in a controlled descent, so whatever was going on could not have completely occupied the crew's attention, like for example a stall and uncontrolled descent would.

 

[angelburst29]

This French site is reporting and collecting data of the plane crash, with over a dozen short video clips and photo's, etc.

http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-provence/2015/03/24/un-a320-s-ecrase-dans-la-zone-de-barcelonnette

Two Opera singers confirmed among victims of Airbus crash in French Alps.

 

[Minas Tirith]

The plane DID not explode in mid-air, because

1. Tt was seen by several witnesses in whole form, even when flying very low:

"I think I saw it before it crashes", told Europe 1 Jean-Paul, a resident of Meolans Revel. "I saw a plane flying a little lower than usual, that's what caught my attention." "He was still at 4,000 meters above sea level, therefore, for me, there was nothing to worry about," he says.

At the same time, Jean-Marie, a resident of Prads-Haute-Bléone not far from the drama, said he saw the plane flew very low altitude. "I then saw a white plane with the tail of the fuselage orange," said the farmer Parisien. "Sometimes we see private aircraft, but this big, it's rare. For me, the plane was flying very low, less than 800 meters from the ground, for sure, "he said to the newspaper.

Taken from Tristran's post.

2. It didn't loose contact until 6000ft - even though everything was silent on the end of the cockpit.

Wouldn't that speak against the meteor theory? I mean, a plane wouldn't be able to descent so controlled after being hit by one?

Strangely enough the debris field looks like something has exploded there - BEFORE it impacted. So if the plane exploded it must have done so between 6.000 feet and ground level.

Sorry for bringing more questions than answers ...

M.T.

 

[mkrnhr]

A meteor doesn't have to impact the plane to have an effect. If the meteor discharges electrically and happens to be close enough to the plane, it could also disable the electric and electronic systems aboard.

 

[Paragon]

A meteor doesn't have to impact the plane to have an effect. If the meteor discharges electrically and happens to be close enough to the plane, it could also disable the electric and electronic systems aboard.

Especially with the Airbus 320 type aircraft whereby if all electronic systems are 'fried' from say an EMP burst, there is only the Manual Wheel Trim for pitch control and rudder for lateral control. Engine controls are electrically connected, no actual manual connection to them. There is also the RAT which is a small air turbine that can drop down and give emergency elec power, but if a meteor has discharged nearby, it could also have damaged that too.

From my understanding, this would be a pretty difficult way of controlling an airplane. I think that there is a member of the mods team who is actually an airline pilot, who may be able to give a professional opinion rather than my 'armchair' analysis!

EDIT- My apologies, Ellipse already touched on this point earlier on the thread

The EMP hypothesis seem to be a good one. I checked if A320 have mechanical backup flight and from what I understand the answer is not so simple. It seem that there's no real cables to backup but HYD (Hydraulic power) system. If you have completely lost all power the HYD does not work but... in a case like the one we are discussing, the power should come from the engines themselves, acting like a dynamo. It's OK but without motors power, I don't know if it's very useful...

Quote
---Trash Hauler---
I don't know about the FADECs used on the engines for the Airbus fleet however I have some experience with FADECs on C130J.

They are guaranteed to be self sufficient above 12% Ng, powered by the permenant magnet generator on the engine. The power levers and fire handles are hardwired to the FADECs so engine control is maintained in the event of total electrical failure.

On a maintenance run we shut off all generators and then the both batteries. The flight deck was dark, all computers powered down but the engines were still operating and full control in the flight range was available from the power levers. The final part of our little test was shutting down with the fire handle. Again it worked as advertised.

I suspect the same type of system on the Airbus fleet.

---As I See It---
Mr Trash Hauler, you are correct in your assumption with regard to the A320 (have done some reading on this, believe me), but the fact remains there is no mechanical back up and it would seem the same with the C130. Lets assume worst case the DDG failed as well, then gliding would follow.
As it happens an inop DDG is a no go, kind of makes sense now!

It is not only As I See It, but it would also seem As It Is

---alatriste---
Mechanical backup ( THS and rudder) is ONLY usable if HYD power is available.
It permits the pilot to control the aircraft during a complete loss of ELECTRICAL POWER. (all computers are gone)

Just think the reason why AIRBUS named the HYD system as Green, Blue and Yellow instead of the classic Left, Center and Right. Green, Blue and Yellow in this precise order cause if you loose all Hyd systems you are DEAD, and then AIRBUS just tell you:

" God Bless You"

source: _http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-170325.html

Now, about EMP effects on plane, I found a discussion saying that planes are "immunised", if not, lightning would always fried the electronic. I don't know if EMP coming from a fireball explosion is the equivalent. Certainly more powerful. Perhaps at a certain level, everything and everybody is "fried". More investigations needed.

 

[Nachtweide]

German Wings crash in France: residents observed three fighter jets

http://www.epochtimes.de/Germanwings-Absturz-in-Frankreich-Anwohner-beobachteten-drei-Kampfjets-a1228831.html

I have some questions :
The aircraft were almost 70 German , crashed in France. Warning to Germany and France because of the proximity to Russia?
Fighter jets. It was therefore fired ?
Descent in the sense of an approach to land in the mountains?
Sudden loss of height ? The last plane crash had the same characteristics. I can not find the session , declared in the C the cause.

Liebe Grüße

 

[Nachtweide]

Why were the message about the plane crash already 3 days ago before?

https://www.google.de/search?q=Offenbar+keine+%C3%9Cberlebende+Die+welt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=ND0SVe3xIoXdPbGegdAJ

http://alles-schallundrauch.blogspot.de/2015/03/frankreich-schiesst-deutsche-maschine-ab.html#!/x83ik

 

[Jeremy F Kreuz]

German Wings crash in France: residents observed three fighter jets

Apperently it is a region where a lot of jet training is going on - so the presence as such is not indicating anything malign.

Die Welt, german newspaper writes that the black box is damaged - are these things not made to survive a nuclear bomb? Or is there info on it that cannot be disclosed?

Stimmenrekorder beschädigt – Germanwingsflüge abgesagt - http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article138724152/Stimmenrekorder-beschaedigt-Germanwingsfluege-abgesagt.html

 

[naorma]

Die Welt, german newspaper writes that the black box is damaged - are these things not made to survive a nuclear bomb? Or is there info on it that cannot be disclosed?

Stimmenrekorder beschädigt – Germanwingsflüge abgesagt - http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article138724152/Stimmenrekorder-beschaedigt-Germanwingsfluege-abgesagt.html

Heard on the radio right now that parts of the voice recorder could be used . . .

The most interesting thing is that besides that "emergency, emergency" - call nothing more was said. As far as I understood from a yesterdays interview there was a possibility to handle that airbus "mechanically" - that means without computerprogramming. And it was also told that within 7-8 minutes pwell trained pilots should be able to take over the machine "by hand".

I tried to find that statement again but was not able, sorry.

 

[sToRmR1dR]

06:58 GMT:The head of the French Interior Ministry has also added that the investigators are keeping an open mind into what might have caused the crash. However, a possible terrorist attack is not being considered a likely reason.
Live updates:
http://rt.com/news/243533-plane-crash-german-wings/

Before the accident,I had this heavy night,my body was shaking,I could not sleep and felt nausea...endure such nights since I was kid.

 

[Inquorate]

If the plane broke into thousands of pieces when It hit the mountain where is the impact crater?

 

[beetlemaniac]

The aircraft were almost 70 German , crashed in France. Warning to Germany and France because of the proximity to Russia?
Fighter jets. It was therefore fired ?

That's also the first thing that came to my mind. But on second thoughts, it's not exactly the best way to send a message to these countries since it's not exactly obvious that it's directed at them. This is from the layman's point of view, but who knows? It's astonishing the number of downed / crashed flights -- I'm losing track of them.

 

[Konstantin]

Live from the crash site on RT

_http://rt.com/on-air/Airbus-A320-apls-operation/

Another plane , this time in Russia made an emergency landing
_http://rt.com/news/243869-passenger-plane-emergency-landing/

 

[Esote]

The aircraft were almost 70 German , crashed in France. Warning to Germany and France because of the proximity to Russia?
Fighter jets. It was therefore fired ?

That's also the first thing that came to my mind. But on second thoughts, it's not exactly the best way to send a message to these countries since it's not exactly obvious that it's directed at them. This is from the layman's point of view, but who knows? It's astonishing the number of downed / crashed flights -- I'm losing track of them.

There are only French fighter jets flying over France, unless some permission might be granted under special conditions.
And they are quite a few flying in the crash area, where I'm living actually...

 

[casper]

Another plane , this time in Russia made an emergency landing
_http://rt.com/news/243869-passenger-plane-emergency-landing/

What is happening in the sky, planes and helicopters are falling due to technical failures, outdated equipment, human error or something else?

Quote:
New Drama: Boeing 737 with 78 passengers made an emergency landing in Russia
Aircraft is approved landing in Pulkovo, and none of the passengers and crew members was injured. Preliminary information suggests that there was an engine failure


Just a day after the fall of Germanwings Airbus in France, a Boeing 737 with 78 passengers requested permission for an emergency landing at the airport St Petersburg in Russia. It is an aircraft used by the United Nations, according to the German Focus.

Preliminary information suggests that the Boeing defect on the engine which is then extinguished.

Aircraft is approved landing in Pulkovo, and none of the passengers and crew members was injured.