Cryogenic Chamber Therapy / Cold Adaptation

[mada85]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

I did a shower today and I started with warm water and continuously turned the heat down while I was under the shower.
in the end I showered with complete cold water (but not very long :P)
it wasn't that bad at all when you adapt to the coldness in steps.

but I'm not that sure if this approach is as beneficial as just a cold shower without heating the water at the beginning ?
could it be that a key to the sucess of this THERMOGENESIS thing could be the shock from the sudden coldness (wich isn't that strong when you adapt to it slowly like I did)?

I've been starting the day by washing my face, head and hands in cold water from the tap with just a little hot added to lessen the impact slightly. I have to take a mental deep breath before I start but over the past few days I've started to notice that cool/cold water is more beneficial for my body and that my body actually craves lower temperatures. When I get in the shower I first make the water temperature cool, i.e. a little below skin temperature, and then reduce in steps. But . . . after a couple of minutes of this I can never seem to get it cold enough! Which surprises me as I used to hate the cold and could never even think of a cold shower without flinching.

I was a bit nervous to take a cold bath, but I did yesterday and was surprised that I didn't shiver much. It's been about three weeks of cold showers and I think the showers are actually a little bit tougher since your body never fully adjusts to the cold. I also think it's worth it to take the time to do the steps gradually since your body does adjust.

I'm planning on trying a cold bath after a few weeks of cold showers, staying a bit longer under the cold shower each day. Although I have noticed that there comes a point when my body says it's had enough of the cold shower.

I've noticed too that there seems to be a psychological component to sensitivity to the cold. My bedroom is quite cool verging on being cold and I've tried sitting naked to see what happens. If I sit and pay attention to my body I'll feel the cold much more than if I read a book and forget about the temperature. Bring my attention back to my body and thoughts of how cold it is and I'll start shivering. So it appears to me that it's possible to prime one's mind with thoughts of the cold, which then influences where one places one's attention, which then leads to heightened awareness of the cold, which leads to the expected reaction to the cold, i.e. shivering. That's not to say of course that a person could lie in an iced bath for hours and be perfectly OK if they were distracted from the temperature!

Thanks for the tips Endymion and SeekinTruth. I had a look at Ferr Phos and although it does mention "Whenever there are ailments arising from disturbed circulation", when reading the whole paragraph Ferr Phos seems to be more geared towards feverish conditions, at least according to that particular site. I suppose it won't hurt to try it though.

This is from the 1965 edition of the Biochemic Handbook:

Ferr. Phos. is the pre-eminent Biochemic First-Aid. It is the oxygen carrier. It enters into the composition of haemoglobin, the red colouring matter of the blood. It takes up oxygen from the air inhaled by the lungs and carries it in the blood–stream to all parts of the body thus helping the vital force that sustains life. It gives strength and toughness to the circular walls of the blood vessels, especially the arteries. Freely circulating, oxygen-rich blood is essential to health and life and for this reason, Ferr. Phos. should always be considered, as a supplementary remedy, no matter what other treatment may be indicated by the symptoms.

 

[Laura]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Our peeps will be giving updates on their experiences soon. It's a 3 hour drive to the center and two have gone twice, for 4 sessions, and two more went on the second day for two sessions each.

Now, just to let ya'll know, we are rather serious about this experiment because we have members of the household with various autoimmune conditions that have been controlled to a great extent by the paleo diet - in fact, it was because of these issues that we began to explore the health topic and change our diet - but it became obvious that something additional was needed.

For example, two of my children here have early symptoms of lupus and their paternal aunt died from lupus. (She had her first stroke at the age of 29, and went downhill rapidly from there.) A third has IBD (Atriedes, who wrote about it on the "Life Without Bread" thread) and nearly lost his colon over the Christmas holidays 2010/11. While he has made amazing recovery and progress in the year since, on a super strict paleo diet, there are still issues. I have rheumatoid arthritis, and have almost completely eliminated the pain with diet, but again, there is obviously just "control" going on at this point and what we need is reversal. Then, Ailen suffers from vasculitis, Psyche from allergies and other symptoms, and Andromeda from the arthritis onset at a young age.

Now, it is interesting to talk about people with such autoimmune things going on simply being genetically designed to live on paleo, in the cold, and all of these conditions came on us because of damage by eating gluten and dairy - and that is probably the case - so, for us, trying this therapy is a very serious thing: we want to see if there is a possibility to move to the next stage of control: reversal. If we have damaged ourselves, triggered these conditions by eating the wrong diet, can it be fixed? I mean, like really fixed? Obviously, being fixed doesn't mean you can go back to eating the poisons that damaged your system, but it is clear that there is some mechanical damage that the body needs to attend to, so how to trigger it to do that in a major way?

We've discussed the protein reduction factor that Gedgaudas suggests as the means to go into "repair" mode, but it seems that in order to do this naturally, one needs to deal with the leptin factor. And if the leptin mechanism is damaged, how to challenge the body to fix the mechanism that fixes the rest of the body? For some it may be easier because there is less damage to the systems, but for a good handful of us here, the damage was severe and early.

So, that's the deal here. We are hoping that this cryo therapy is going to do a bit more than just give us a cold rush and stop a bit of pain.

 

[Voyageur]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Laura, it might also be useful, not sure, to ask Psyche about Hyperbaric medicine. A friend of mine was a professional deep sea diver and a professional operator of these chambers and he said that selected physicians now operate these chambers and there worth is vastly underrated as they are used to treat decompression sickness primarily but have many oxygenating properties useful for health. He said they are so good at somethings that he just can't understand why they are not standard equipment in hospitals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbaric_medicine

 

[Gaby]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Laura, it might also be useful, not sure, to ask Psyche about Hyperbaric medicine. A friend of mine was a professional deep sea diver and a professional operator of these chambers and he said that selected physicians now operate these chambers and there worth is vastly underrated as they are used to treat decompression sickness primarily but have many oxygenating properties useful for health. He said they are so good at somethings that he just can't understand why they are not standard equipment in hospitals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbaric_medicine

I was familiarized with it in Italy where it was a standard therapy for wound healing. It worked pretty well, especially in people with chronic disease and a very crappy diet. But what we are finding interesting about the thermoadaptation is that it seems to activate gene pathways that are healing/repairing and that are only sensible to cold temperatures and to a physiological state that is achieved with a paleo diet.

It might be the case that we will need to do thermoadaptation on a long-term basis as explained by Dr. Kruse. His protocol was to do first the face, then neck/torso, then cold showers and then the bath tub thing. As we all experiment and report back, we will know better. So far it looks very interesting and beneficial.

 

[Chu]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

So, Atreides and I have done 4 sessions so far. Two of Laura's daughters have done 2. Athena will post about them, and I'll give an update about Atreides and I as we go. As Laura explained, we're taking this experiment seriously, so we've been keeping track of as many details as we can. We even took pictures.

About Atreides first (he's tired, but he might add whatever I forgot):

Background: Like most of you know, he has suffered from bowel problems since he was very young. IBS, skin problems (sebaceous cysts and boils), and then last year that serious infection in the colon that almost killed him. This year, he had another smaller infection. Doctors don't seem to know a thing. One wanted to perform an urgent surgery and highlighted the risk of him ending up in a very bad situation not being able to control his bowels anymore. So we refused the surgery. The other claimed it was a fistula, but it is not very clear on the MRI. Our conclusion, for now, and seeing ALL the symptoms, not just the "supposed" fistula, is that it is more likely that lots of toxins are trying to get out (he lost 60kgs) since last year being on a strict paleo-diet, and possibly the skin glands needing an extra boost, so as to help with the detox and not accumulate toxins in the surface. So, we want to get to the bottom of it, and cryo/cold sounds promising.

The sessions:

1: Adaptation session: 3 mins at an average of -90 degrees Celsius (there are two numbers in the chamber's thermometer, and you take the average. One is the temperature of the liquid nitrogen, the other the temperature in the air. All numbers below are those averages, but the nitrogen goes down to -180). His body temperature went down by about 20 degrees.

2: a whole one: 3 mins, at -120.
3 and 4: a whole one, 3 mins, at -150. During the last one, he did some pipe breathing and really relaxed, and his body temperature when down by 26 degrees. So that does something!

In the morning on the first session, he had some pain in the areas where those little "cysts" are located. By the second session, all the pain was totally gone, and he hasn't had any yet.

Another interesting thing is that, when he came out, he had some red areas about those "cysts". Some half-moon shaped, some like a strip. the physiotheapist at the center says that any area that gets red is where there is the least vascularization in the body, so that might show us something is being "boosted", and most importantly, help.

The first session usually energizes him, and the second one makes him more tired. But he's been sleeping very well (unusual for him).

Ailén:

Background: In the past, I had a period of strong anxiety/stress, at the same time I started taking the pill. I put on about 12kgs in one month, and didn't lose them all until we started the diet. Apart from bone ache (which I thought could be fybromyalgia), a vasculitis started. It was in the smallest blood vessels close to the skin, creating pain, swelling, and what they call "marble skin" (red and white spots). I had a biopsy done, and lots of tests. All the doctors said was that I had high cholesterol, and possibly an allergy to estrogens, but it was too late to see what had really triggered the reaction. Now, it has gotten much better with the diet, and I hardly have pain or swelling. But it's still there, and it gets worse if I eat something inflammatory or if I'm stressed out. The second issue was a pancreatitis (after the "paleobug" in 2010). We think it could be linked to a virus called coxsackie. I had another episode this year. And last time I got a cold, the same symptoms again. So, working on that one too, but it is clear that it is "active".

The sessions:
1. 2:30 mins at -120
2. 3 mins mins at -150.

During the second session, I felt my legs burn after min 2. They were literally HOT. In the evening, I could still feel a slight burning irritation. And indeed, I had gotten frost bite. Very mild. I put some DMSO on, and by the morning it was better.

The other thing that worried me a bit was that, while Atreides' legs were at 13 degrees when he got out (a drop of 21 degrees), mine where at -3 and -1 (a drop of 31-33 degrees!). One of the papers quoted in this thread said that the minimum temperature recorded had been 5.2. So I was pretty scared.

So, the next day, I really hesitated about doing it again. But the physiotherapist said that it happens to many people who have sensitive skin or bad circulation in the outer capillaries (my case), both the slight burning and the low temperature. He gave me a pair of stockings to wear, explaining that that protects the surface of the skin, without preventing the cold from reaching the deeper layers.

3. 2:50 mins at -140
4. 3 mins at -150

I had no problem at all. I actually got a small skin burn right at the spot where my skin was bear. That's all. And the temperature in my legs was much higher (8 degrees).

All throughout those 2 days, I've been feeling something happen. When I first got out of the chamber, my legs where super red, in irregular areas all over. But by the 4th session, those areas were much smaller. And I have been feeling the blood pump again all over, in different places at a time.

So, it remains to be seen, but we think so far, the results are not bad. I'll try to post the pictures later, and we'll keep you updated!

 

[Chu]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Some extra notes, from our discussions with the physiotherapist at the center:

About the frequency of sessions:
He says that it all depends on the original condition. For some people, less than 10 sessions do it, and some need like 30. So, it's up to each person to see where they are at by the end of the sessions. The way to tell should be: a) that the body temperature goes down by at least 20 degrees after each session. b) That the person is pain free (for rheumatism, arthritis, etc.), c) symptom-free (for psoriasis, skin problems, circulatory problems). Sometimes, you can go 2-4 weeks without any pain and symptoms, but if they come back, you might want to keep doing more sessions until the effects are much more long-lasting.

About cancer: He says that he wouldn't recommend it at all, because since it is basically boosting all the circulatory system, in all the organs and vessels, there is a risk of rapid metastasis, and not enough research about it. However, he pointed out that in Germany, cryo is used in patients with cancer, but more as a painkiller for people who have reached an advanced stage.

About the organs: He says it hasn't been found out whether cryo can actually heal an organ, but at the very least, it should irrigate all the detox/digestive organs much better, allowing fro a better detoxification and resetting them to work better. We'll have to conduct our own experiment on this one. He did mention that it has been used to cure Crohn's disease, and IBS-type illnesses, because blood starts irrigating much better in those areas where the tissues are weak (leaking), allowing for their regeneration. That, combined with the papers we've been reading, give us some hope for Atreides.

About skin problems: There was a guy at the center, who has been going for several sessions, and it IS curing his psoriasis. This could also contribute to Atreides' skin getting better. We have been using clay and activated charcoal, and it helps with the draining part, but hopefully cryo can do something at a deeper level...

About arthritis/bone problems: He cured a severe cervical problem after 3 x 10 sessions, and cryo healed his partner's knee, right before she was supposed to go for surgery for a ligament problem. Athena's back got much better, but I'll let her write about it.

About the diet: They don't seem to know anything about it at this center (no surprise there!), so all the notes above are to be taken with that into consideration.

Reminder: Do NOT put anything on your skin before you go in! No cream, oil, nothing.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Very interesting. Thanks for the update, Ailen. :)

 

[Gimpy]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Sounds pretty intense. I'm looking forward to reading more.

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

thanks Ailen,

I didn't know that Atreides has lost 60 kg the last time his weight loss was mentioned (I think on the LWB thread) it were about 30 kg,
I guess now he has cracked the pot of wait loss during the diet :)

I'm wondering if those symptoms you guys have will be permanently gone after sever sessions there or if you need to adapt to colder temperaturs for a long time to have a longstanding effect in gerneral.

I guess the adaption to colder temperatures could really make a difference especially with the paleo diet for us all.
If it is true that human beings evolved mostly during Ice Ages and while eating a high animal fat diet then with a possible Ice Age ahead this combination of adaption could turn out to be very importand in the not to distant future.

maybe something in us is already feeling that something cold is coming and is asking us to adapt.

Edit:spelling

 

[3DStudent]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Thanks for sharing Ailén. The frostbite part is kind of scary, those were my first thoughts when I heard this was done with liquid nitrogen. I'm kind of leary of even bathing in ice, with regards to hypothermia. Though I must admit that I'm not caught up on this thread and Kruse's methods.

I tried a shower with just cold water last night for a brief few minutes. I had to really psych myself up and consciously suffer. I'm not one who does well in the cold.

 

[SethianSeth]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Thanks for the updates from all those who are trying both Kruse's home CT and the Cryo-chambers. I've been reading through his blog, and the implications here are totally fascinating. After I read a bit more to make sure I understand the science better (he isn't very easy to read with all his abbreviations and grammatical errors), I am pretty sure I am going to join in the home CT experiment.

One thing I am particularly unclear on is whether the cold therapy must continue in order for us to stay "cold adapted." If we become cold adapted and find this to be optimal like Kruse suggests, do we have to continue to expose ourselves to the cold every day to maintain this state? Granted, on this forum we are looking at this from a few additional angles including the possibility that this therapy could be prep-work for the real deal ice age conditions we may encounter very soon. But, as for now, is there a possibility that maintaining a cold adapted state while living through a normal summer in NYC (for example) might be dangerous or sending mixed messages? Or is this not really a concern as long as we avoid carbs in this state?

So much to think on with this thread! I am particularly excited by the link here to the aquatic ape hypothesis.

 

[shijing]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Thanks anart, Laura, Ailen, and Psyche for your updates about how the experimentation is going so far -- it sounds like several people at the Chateau have had quite a time with physical suffering of different kinds, and no wonder you guys sometimes feel low putting up with all of that on top of the other stresses you've been going through in the past year (and before). I'm glad there is a cryo-chamber close enough that you are able to try this out, and I hope that you eventually see some of the permanent benefits that you are hoping for after continuing the treatments!

We think it could be linked to a virus called coxsackie.

Are you suspecting coxsackie B? I've had experience with coxsackie A -- three episodes of hand-foot-mouth disease in my adult life (which is somewhat rare -- it usually manifests in children). I know it's something that is supposed to remain dormant in your system indefinitely, and can become active during periods of stress, like you described.

If it is true that human beings evolved mostly during Ice Ages and while eating a high animal fat diet then with a possible Ice Age ahead this combination of adaption could turn out to be very importand in the not to distant future.

It is pretty interesting that a common theme in the health protocols that are being explored is basically recreating the conditions that would have existed during an Ice Age. It seems as though the warm period that we have been in since the end of the Pleistocene really provided an opportunity to weaken people in general through the introduction of agriculture and so forth.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

One thing I am particularly unclear on is whether the cold therapy must continue in order for us to stay "cold adapted." If we become cold adapted and find this to be optimal like Kruse suggests, do we have to continue to expose ourselves to the cold every day to maintain this state? Granted, on this forum we are looking at this from a few additional angles including the possibility that this therapy could be prep-work for the real deal ice age conditions we may encounter very soon. But, as for now, is there a possibility that maintaining a cold adapted state while living through a normal summer in NYC (for example) might be dangerous or sending mixed messages? Or is this not really a concern as long as we avoid carbs in this state?

The theory is that we have a brain circuit that is very healing and that is sensible to temperature and that "overrules" the season/circadian rhythm so to speak. At this stage, we are only experimenting, but if it is true, it might mean that the cold weather AND the paleo diet might be the key for much needed DNA changes. I guess we'll find out, keep experimenting and researching.

The other thought that cross my mind is that this brain circuit might be more important because perhaps there was a time when the Earth didn't had a tilted axis which as far as I understand, it is the thing that allows for weather seasons. Or it might just be the case that nature has provided us for a mechanism to function optimally on ice age conditions. Just thinking at loud.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

About Atreides' IBS problems. Is he taking slippery elm? And does he take it away from meals? Because it's supposed to really help with gut healing, but I read somewhere in the last several weeks that it also absorbs stomach acid. So it could potentially cause problems if taken with meals in that if it reduces the amount of HCl, digestion would not be optimal. Just thought I'd ask about this.

 

[Voyageur]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

[quote author=Psyche]
I was familiarized with it in Italy where it was a standard therapy for wound healing. It worked pretty well, especially in people with chronic disease and a very crappy diet. But what we are finding interesting about the thermoadaptation is that it seems to activate gene pathways that are healing/repairing and that are only sensible to cold temperatures and to a physiological state that is achieved with a paleo diet.

It might be the case that we will need to do thermoadaptation on a long-term basis as explained by Dr. Kruse. His protocol was to do first the face, then neck/torso, then cold showers and then the bath tub thing. As we all experiment and report back, we will know better. So far it looks very interesting and beneficial.
[/quote]

Thanks Psyche for the differentiations on the two different systems and more importantly further on thermoadaption healing/repairing properties - really interesting. Thanks too Ailén for these initial trial observation from those noted. Took note of this as well:

About cancer: He says that he wouldn't recommend it at all, because since it is basically boosting all the circulatory system, in all the organs and vessels, there is a risk of rapid metastasis, and not enough research about it.