Dental Health

[Cleo]

Hello all, last week I started to experience pretty strong tooth pain-developed an infection from where my lower left wisdom tooth started to break through the skin only partially. There was some bleeding yesterday but not for too long. The swelling has gone down quite a bit and there is little pain today (notice the pain is usually the worse at night). Have been trying several different methods-clove oil, salt water rinse, homeopathic medicine and a tooth/gum gel from a health food store.

Went to the dentist today and my appointment to have it extracted by an oral surgeon is in a couple days. In the meantime, they've prescribed the antibiotic Amoxicillin to be taken 2 times a day and the antibiotic rinse Chlorhexidine 2-3 times a day. Not thrilled about taking either, a bit worried actually. Think the last time I took antibiotics was about 10 years ago when I had a root canal.

I've been doing a bit of research on probiotics in this thread and online from my phone and from what I understand, the recommended probiotic is lactobacillus rhamnosus in liquid form? Also, about how many hours after taking an antibiotic would you recommend taking the probiotic? What I read online is 2 hours in between. Think I'll try and pick up the probiotic this evening from the health food store.

 

[lilyalic]

Hello all, last week I started to experience pretty strong tooth pain-developed an infection from where my lower left wisdom tooth started to break through the skin only partially. There was some bleeding yesterday but not for too long. The swelling has gone down quite a bit and there is little pain today (notice the pain is usually the worse at night). Have been trying several different methods-clove oil, salt water rinse, homeopathic medicine and a tooth/gum gel from a health food store.

Went to the dentist today and my appointment to have it extracted by an oral surgeon is in a couple days. In the meantime, they've prescribed the antibiotic Amoxicillin to be taken 2 times a day and the antibiotic rinse Chlorhexidine 2-3 times a day. Not thrilled about taking either, a bit worried actually. Think the last time I took antibiotics was about 10 years ago when I had a root canal.

I've been doing a bit of research on probiotics in this thread and online from my phone and from what I understand, the recommended probiotic is lactobacillus rhamnosus in liquid form? Also, about how many hours after taking an antibiotic would you recommend taking the probiotic? What I read online is 2 hours in between. Think I'll try and pick up the probiotic this evening from the health food store.

Hi Cleo, sorry to hear of the pain you're experiencing!

Don't worry too much about the antibiotics, sometimes they're needed. (definitely worth taking if you're in pain!) I felt the same as you when I was prescribed antibiotics

I'd suggest just taking the probiotics close to bed time, but 2 hours after taking the anti's seems like a good idea too. When I was on Amoxcillin 3x daily, I was taking about a tablet of Lacto Rhamnosus (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Culturelle-Probiotic-Lactobacillus-GG-Capsules/dp/B00014JJDO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1446010923&sr=8-2&keywords=culturelle) everyday. They're cheap and the GG kind.

Good luck!

 

[Cleo]

Hi Lilyalic,

Thanks, I'll be looking into the probiotic you linked to, see if the health food store has them. Meant to have located a probiotic by now so I could take them not long after the antibiotic. Anyway, looks like I'll be taking them after surgery which should also be fine I think.

The dentist the other day asked if I'd like a sedative pill or nitrous oxide aka laughing gas during surgery. Would rather not take another pill so opted for the nitrous oxide. From what I understand, there's not much in the way of adverse side affects with this type of sedation.

 

[Alada]

The dentist the other day asked if I'd like a sedative pill or nitrous oxide aka laughing gas during surgery. Would rather not take another pill so opted for the nitrous oxide. From what I understand, there's not much in the way of adverse side affects with this type of sedation.

One thing I found that helped at the dentist with any major work being done, was to focus on gentle belly breathing (as in the Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program). Not overdoing it, but a gentle focused breath, just enough to help calm things down. It helps take attention away from only being able to focus on what's going on with the procedure itself, plus helps you relax and be as calm as is possible given the circumstances, through what can be pretty stressful for the body. From there you can keep talking yourself through as you breath.

Hope it goes well!

 

[luke wilson]

I had 2 wisdom teeth extracted by an oral surgeon when I was 17. The procedure went ok, though afterwards I was given pretty strong painkillers. During the actual procedure itself, I kept myself distracted by looking at the dental torch hanging overhead, plus (and this was unusual) the dental students stood around the dental chair watching the procedure, taking notes, staring into my mouth as the surgeon pointed at different bits and bobs. I had given my consent for the surgeon to use this as a lesson to his students.

I was under local anaesthesia at the time which was fine as I didn't feel any pain but I think nowadays they can give you stuff to pretty much knock you out during the actual procedure...

 

[lainey]

The dentist the other day asked if I'd like a sedative pill or nitrous oxide aka laughing gas during surgery. Would rather not take another pill so opted for the nitrous oxide. From what I understand, there's not much in the way of adverse side affects with this type of sedation.

One thing I found that helped at the dentist with any major work being done, was to focus on gentle belly breathing (as in the Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program). Not overdoing it, but a gentle focused breath, just enough to help calm things down. It helps take attention away from only being able to focus on what's going on with the procedure itself, plus helps you relax and be as calm as is possible given the circumstances, through what can be pretty stressful for the body. From there you can keep talking yourself through as you breath.

Hope it goes well!

I can vouch for that method. I was doing it today! I've just had the first of my amalgams swapped out and some new fillings to top it off. (6 in total)
I had a pretty painful and cold scale and polish too so focusing on deep relaxed breathing really helped make it bearable.
Luckily for me as a full time student I get everything except the actual fillings for free so now was the perfect time to catch up on all those years of neglect.
So my advice to anyone going through this is to close your eyes and breathe as deeply and slowly as you can and recite POTS in your mind. It really helped me.

 

[Cleo]

Think it could be really helpful to recite POTS and do the gentle breathing while in surgery. Thanks for the heads up!

I was also told by the dentist btw, that I have an abscess under a root canal done on a lower right tooth about 10 years ago. Possibly a low grade infection, pretty sure I haven't experienced any pain from that tooth since the root canal. Most likely I will also have the tooth extracted-don't know how much I can afford redoing a root canal at this point.

I've also been thinking about this off and on the last several days since having this tooth pain. I've read about the emotional releases sometimes experienced after practicing EE which can sometimes manifest as body aches/pains...I wonder whether practicing the pipe breathing may have contributed somewhat to this rupture in pain? I bring this up because for several days straight before the pain, I was practicing the pipe breathing a lot more than usual. I actually felt like I was finally getting down the constriction part. Seems I was motivated by the last C's session to start practicing again (there was the discussion about making small changes, changing habits).

Also, I noticed the day before the pain hit, I found myself in a sort of down/off mood for a few hours while driving after visiting out of town-it stood out as it seemed more difficult than usual to get out of. Was also the day I noticed a slight ache in that area of the mouth. This is in contrast to the lighter mood I felt a few days prior when practicing EE.

 

[Gaby]

Apologies if it was mentioned before, but I learned today from someone who has never had a cavity in his whole life that he has never used toothpaste, just a "miswak". I thought it was pretty interesting, so here is more info:

Traditional miswak sticks. Softened bristles on either end can be used to clean the teeth.

_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miswak

The miswak (miswaak, siwak, sewak, Arabic: سواك‎‎ or مسواك) is a teeth cleaning twig made from the Salvadora persica tree (known as arak in Arabic). A traditional and natural alternative to the modern toothbrush, it has a long, well-documented history and is reputed for its medicinal benefits.[1] It is reputed to have been used over 7000 years ago.[2] The miswak's properties have been described thus: "Apart from their antibacterial activity which may help control the formation and activity of dental plaque, they can be used effectively as a natural toothbrush for teeth cleaning. Such sticks are effective, inexpensive, common, available, and contain many medical properties".[3] It also features prominently in Islamic hygienical jurisprudence.

The miswak is predominant in Muslim-inhabited areas. It is commonly used in the Arabian peninsula, the Horn of Africa, North Africa, parts of the Sahel, the Indian subcontinent, Central Asia and Southeast Asia. In Malaysia, miswak is known as Kayu Sugi (Malay for 'chewing stick').

[...]

Miswak: A periodontist's perspective
_https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3545237/

Parveen Dahiya, Reet Kamal,1 R.P. Luthra,2 Rahul Mishra, and Gaurav Saini3

Abstract

Meticulous plaque control on a daily routine basis is the single most important step to achieve good oral health. Herbal chewing sticks, commonly known as Miswak, are among the ancient and traditional oral hygiene aids popular in India, Pakistan, most of the Arabian countries, and several African countries. But nowadays, because of low cost, free availability, unique chemical composition, and spiritual beliefs, miswak is being used worldwide. A large number of studies have proved that miswak is as effective as, or even superior to the present day′s most common oral hygiene aid, i.e., toothbrush. The aim of this review article is to discuss various pharmacological and therapeutic aspects of miswak and also to compare the effectiveness of miswak with modern toothbrushes in terms of oral hygiene practice.

More info at _https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3545237/

 

[seek10]

Apologies if it was mentioned before, but I learned today from someone who has never had a cavity in his whole life that he has never used toothpaste, just a "miswak". I thought it was pretty interesting, so here is more info:

This reminds me of how we cleaned our teeth before commercial tooth pastes became affordable.

- dried Neem tree sticks tribals sells. We remove little hard bark on one end.crush the softer insides with teeth to the point of soft brush and use that one to clean the teeth

_http://www.humanheed.com/articles/health-information/natural-toothbrush-neem-twigs-brushing-gleam-teeth-strong-gums/

- using crushed coal as a tooth powder or even crushed salt

Well, we never realized that those are the healthiest one's when compared to commercial tooth pastes( with flouride) at that time.

 

[PopHistorian]

I've also had this kind of infection, with pain radiating into the jaw. Twice I've had it, including just a couple of months ago. I fixed it both times by swishing colloidal silver (American Biotech Labs ASAP Solution) for fifteen minutes at a time, a few times per day, and after two or three days the pain calmed down and went away.

 

[maiko]

Hi there,

I hope I came to right place as I am looking for some alternatives to work against a periodontitis that my dentist so happily diagnosed.

Periodontitis, also known as gum disease and pyorrhea, is a set of inflammatory diseases affecting the tissues surrounding the teeth. Periodontitis involves progressive loss of the alveolar bone around the teeth, and if left untreated, can lead to the loosening and subsequent loss of teeth.

Periodontitis is caused by microorganisms that adhere to and grow on the tooth's surfaces, along with an over-aggressive immune response against these microorganisms.

Somehow she thought that I am not a smoker and started telling me that all smokers suffer from a higher risk of periodontitis, and as I am not a smoker it must be genetically caused in my case.

I did not correct her in her assumption. I am a regular if normally not a strong smoker and I wanted other solutions offered than the suggestion to stop smoking. She told me to stop by regularly (nice try) and to stick to sa trict dental hygiene routine (which I already do as a former victim of braces).

Now, what I was wondering, does anyone out there has experiences as what might help? I am not too thrilled by the perspective of maybe losing healthy teeth due to a loss of attachment. It reminds of regular nightmares I used to have about loosing teeth.

I thought that one solution might be to reintegrate oil pulling with coconut oil as for its anti-bacterial effect.

Any thoughts? Thank you.

 

[Adaryn]

Hi maiko,

I also have periodontitis and I have found that coconut oil pulling does indeed help, along with red light therapy (I'm using a handheld device that I apply to my jaw/mouth) and rinsing my mouth with colloidal silver and 1-2 drops of iodine after brushing my teeth. It seems to slow down the progression of periodontitis and help with extreme teeth sensitivity as well. Clove essential oil might help too - as it has powerful antibacterial properties.

 

[Oxajil]

Hi maiko,

In addition to Adaryn's advice, (though I don't have periodontitis) my experience with this mouthwash has been pretty good so far. (It may not work for everyone, reading some of the reviews) It's pretty strong especially the first time using it, but seems to work well. But if you decide to do oil pulling, a mouthwash isn't needed I think. I've done oil pulling in the past, that really makes a difference too. I also think coconut oil should work. I used this product when I did oil pulling in the past, it was a bit pricey, but did go for a long time.

I notice teeth sensitivity goes up when my carb intake is high, the way I take it down is lower my carb intake and drink water with vitamin C. I remember reading that it helps strengthening your gums. When my dental hygienist 'poked' my gums to check whether they're healthy/strong, she mentioned that they're very good (my gums didn't bleed when she 'poked' them), and I think it's because of the vitamin C. Bone broth can also help.

Just found this, could be interesting:

Periodontitis Is Associated with a Low Concentration of Vitamin C in Plasma

In conclusion, P. gingivalis infection is associated with low concentrations of vitamin C in plasma, which may increase colonization of P. gingivalis or disturb the healing of the infected periodontium. [...]

Even though low vitamin C intake does not cause periodontitis, it is known that additional vitamin C is required during infectious diseases and tissue regeneration (17, 37). Avitaminosis-C is associated primarily with defective collagen synthesis, causing tissue dysfunction such as impaired wound healing and ruptured capillaries because of insufficient support of the capillary walls by the connective tissues (9). Regeneration of collagen to maintain the integrity of the tooth attachment elements is especially important for periodontal health. Since vitamin C is involved in the synthesis of intercellular substances such as collagen fibers found in various forms of connective tissues and the matrix of bone and teeth (15), and since vitamin C has immunomodulating functions influencing the susceptibility of a host to infectious diseases (4, 10), it is rational to hypothesize that a low vitamin C concentration in serum is a risk factor for periodontal diseases (30). [...]

Since the major function of ascorbic acid is its involvement in the synthesis of collagen fibers (20), a very low vitamin C status may prevent the regeneration of periodontal tissues. However, the attachment ligaments or alveolar bone lost due to the inflammation response will not be revived.

 

[maiko]

Thank you both so much. I will definetely give it try. I guess there is no way around changing my routine in the morning. But dental health is so important.
I will also have a look into the vitamin c and as winter comes I am already planing my days on bone broth. Since going paleo six years ago and drastically reducing my carb intake three years ago I never had any problems with teeth sensitivity or bleeding gums. That's why I was a bit shocked to notice my gums retracting in parts.

I will let you know about the outcome.

 

[Keyhole]

Thank you both so much. I will definetely give it try. I guess there is no way around changing my routine in the morning. But dental health is so important.
I will also have a look into the vitamin c and as winter comes I am already planing my days on bone broth. Since going paleo six years ago and drastically reducing my carb intake three years ago I never had any problems with teeth sensitivity or bleeding gums. That's why I was a bit shocked to notice my gums retracting in parts.

I will let you know about the outcome.

Hi maiko, as mentioned already, vitamin C is a useful tool for periodontitis.

CoQ10 is also implicated, and cases have displayed significantly decreased levels of this nutrient. As a crucial intermediate in energy production and as a potent antioxidant, it can help to heal the gum lining.

Role of coenzyme Q10 as an antioxidant and bioenergizer in periodontal diseases

The specific activity of succinic dehydrogenase–coenzyme Q10 reductase in gingival tissues from patients with periodontal disease against normal periodontal tissues has been evaluated using biopsies, which showed a deficiency of CoQ10 in patients with periodontal disease. On exogenous CoQ10 administration, an increase in the specific activity of this mitochondrial enzyme was found in deficient patients.[15–18] The periodontal score was also decreased concluding that CoQ10 should be considered as an adjunct for the treatment of periodontitis in current dental practice.[19]

Not only succinate dehydrogenase CoQ10 reductase, but also succinate cytochrome c reductase and NADH cytochrome c reductase showed decreased specific activity in periodontitis patients.[20] On exogenous administration of CoQ10 showed improved specific activity of these enzymes with significant reduction of motile rods and spirochetes.[21] The preliminary data indicated that CoQ10 may reduce gingival inflammation without affecting GCF total antioxidant levels,[22] whereas one more study showed significant reduction in TBRAS in GCF in patients treated with scaling and root planning with CoQ10.[23]

200-300mg daily is where I would start personally.

Also, dysbiosis of the mouth is a common factor in periodontitis from what I understand. Looking to investigate GI dysbiosis (whether it be stomach infection, SIBO, or colonic dysbiosis/infection) should help to give you some perspective on the initial cause of the gum disease.