Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

[doublea1535]

The last few times I've been having apocalyptic dreams every time I do the EE program before going to bed at night - dreams involving an impending disaster. The one I had last night, the city i was in (in the dream) was in total chaos, people were running around, there were some type of security officers shooting random people (guess I was also running away from them inside some hotel type of building). When i came out to the street and looked up at the sky, I could see a glowing orb high up which I immediately sensed meant danger and imminent death. The sky was dimmed - as if looking through sun glasses, or in a partial solar eclipse, but still bright enough to see the clouds and the glowing orb.

Quite disturbing actually, but interesting this is happening more often now, than before. I'm not sure if this is just a manifestation of my unconscious fears or actually some sort of message.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

I can tell you that I have often had apocalyptic dreams, although I haven't noticed a correlation between EE and them. I will find myself in a bombed out shell of a planet walking around in the rubble, with dark red skies overhead, or simply very dim lighting, similar to what you describe. I figured it was a reflection of my inner state of being, chaotic and barren. In them, I am not really doing anything. Just wandering around, talking to people sometimes. They are never scary for me, although I wouldn't call them pleasant either. I never sense any sort of immediate threat to my life or anything. I do have dreams in which I fear for my life, which always involve people wanting to kill me. But these dreams take place in a normal setting. I will be walking to my car and get mugged, or something like that. Chased by people that I can't get away from. These last ones I am pretty sure stem from residual trauma as a child.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I found this in John Bennett's book, "Talks on Beelzebub's Tales". It's the chapter on "Djartklom", which is the process where the three forces separate and then strive to re-blend (disintegration and reintegration). It's connected with day/night and remorse of conscience. (He makes an interesting distinction between "artificial" Djartklom, epitomized by G's techniques at the Prieure, and natural, which is what G started doing after his accident.) This part is from the last two pages of the chapter:

Finally, there is the picture Gurdjieff has given of djartklom in relation to night and day. People do experience what this is about but usually fail to recognize it for what it is. During a meditation, it can happen, as many people report, that there comes about some kind of absence. These moments of not being there can be divided into four kinds. Firstly, there is just getting lost in associations and this is quite ordinary. Secondly, there is falling asleep. Then there is the sharp break, the sharp discontinuity, but one comes back as if waking out of sleep yet knowing it was not just ordinary sleep. Lastly, there is the genuine hiatus where one disappears and returns to exactly the same point not knowing if a minute or a second has elapsed. This is when our attention is exceptionally good. In the East it is known as Samadhi or trance. The Buddhistic scriptures speak of a timeless and spaceless experience coming after the four dhyanas and what happens is that literally one goes out of time and space into another dimension, that I have called eternity. That is why it is impossible to tell how long the experience has lasted. And when one goes out of space and time one does not necessarily remain where on is. One can come to and find oneself somewhere else or in yesterday and one has the strange feeling that somehow one has got to get to today. Then one returns into oneself.

One can come out of samadhi at the same place and time, at another place and time, or from sleep.

The thing to realize about samadhi is that it is not induced by oneself. It is a kind of djartklom associated with "day" and "night." We should remember that in Beelzebub's Tales it is hinted that the darkness is superior. In the early part of 1925, Gurdjieff was still very much influenced by the experience he had in July of the previous year when he really did die and returned to life. He tried to say something about these experiences in the chapters on "The relative understanding of Time," "The Arch-absurd;" and "The Arch-preposterous." It is not through our efforts that such things come to us.

In the deep state of samadhi there is not even blankness: there is disappearance. One has gone into the spiritual world called in Sufism the alam-i imkan and left behind the world of states of consciousness, the alam-i arvah. Then we are directly under the power of God and we become malleable. During such a time, the spiritual power is able to do something with us.

 

[nicklebleu]

Thanks AI ... very interesting take on "zoning out" - if indeed it is the fourth variety and not just one to three!
Now how to tell the difference ... I wouldn't have a clue.

 

[Ares]

AI that's very interesting - thank you!

I wonder though, how easy it is to get into this timeless state called samadhi while doing the EE program, and how many people will misinterpret their zoning out as such. Also if "there is not even blankness: there is disappearance", what is the difference between this state and 4D awareness? Is it something totally beyond 3-6 densities to 7D?

ignis.intimus, thank you for your comments on my apocalyptic dreams - hope its just my issues and not what will be happen for everyone :)

 

[Lucius]

Hello

Today my mp3 player is broken again.. (I have bought two - to us it for meditation) no accident just "stop" working ;]
Now I have problem with meditation but I have all "remember" just want to heart Laura Voice it Call me down it is so strength but it Help me I fell
pulse of energy when she tell "baa haaa" "oh divic cosmic mid" etc:)
I will buy new at next Pay check =) in about one week;)

 

[jordifs]

Thanks AI for your post. Very interesting remark.

I recognise the fourth type as it is what I perceived the first time it happened to me. I was on Zazen (before EE) and the third day I did perceived 5 minutes passed, when 55 minutes were gone. I was shocked. On EE it eventually happens also, but I belief that for me the "no seed" meditation works better than listening an audio track. Analysing why may it be, I understood that any external input is perceived by the body and triggers distraction even on the brain. So it is much more difficult to focus and zone out on a noisy ambient, than on a silent one.

 

[Juba]

The last few times I've been having apocalyptic dreams every time I do the EE program before going to bed at night - dreams involving an impending disaster. The one I had last night, the city i was in (in the dream) was in total chaos, people were running around, there were some type of security officers shooting random people (guess I was also running away from them inside some hotel type of building). When i came out to the street and looked up at the sky, I could see a glowing orb high up which I immediately sensed meant danger and imminent death. The sky was dimmed - as if looking through sun glasses, or in a partial solar eclipse, but still bright enough to see the clouds and the glowing orb.

Quite disturbing actually, but interesting this is happening more often now, than before. I'm not sure if this is just a manifestation of my unconscious fears or actually some sort of message.

Perhaps disturbing dreams are connected with sleeping in Supine position (when you sleep on your back), I had couple of really disturbing dreams when doing whole EE program in Supine position and when continued to sleep in the same position this could be supported by extra blood in certain brain areas like in R complex (or Reptilian brain - Basal Ganglia and Thalamus), but as well this could be some kind of powerful mind detox induced by EE.

Usually bad dreams are connected with; Sleep Paralysis, Migraines, Sleeping apnea....

 

[Gawan]

Thanks AI for your post. Very interesting remark.

I recognise the fourth type as it is what I perceived the first time it happened to me. I was on Zazen (before EE) and the third day I did perceived 5 minutes passed, when 55 minutes were gone. I was shocked. On EE it eventually happens also, but I belief that for me the "no seed" meditation works better than listening an audio track. Analysing why may it be, I understood that any external input is perceived by the body and triggers distraction even on the brain. So it is much more difficult to focus and zone out on a noisy ambient, than on a silent one.

IMO the prayer of the soul is not just only -a- seed, but has been worked out over the years. In comparison to some other suggesting seed meditations. And zoning out, is imo not the goal while doing the -seed- meditation, but more or less a byproduct of it.

Or do you mean, using the prayer saying it only to yourself, instead of listening to the audio?

My two cents. :)

 

[Approaching Infinity]

AI that's very interesting - thank you!

I wonder though, how easy it is to get into this timeless state called samadhi while doing the EE program,

I'd say easier for some than others. For me it's very 'difficult' (not that I try to force it, though).

and how many people will misinterpret their zoning out as such.

My point was that samadhi as Bennett describes it seems to be the same thing as zoning out. I think the danger would be for people to misinterpret the other phenomena as 'zoning' (i.e., associations, sleep, sleep-zoning), so the fact that he makes the differentiations is a good thing. Put in those terms, most of my zoning out has been of the third variety, rarely of the fourth. And even then, it's possible that one day I'll experience the fourth and realize I'd never really experienced it before, that I was confusing one with the other.

Also if "there is not even blankness: there is disappearance", what is the difference between this state and 4D awareness? Is it something totally beyond 3-6 densities to 7D?

G described it as contact with higher centers. In other words, our 'soul' goes to a place and has experiences that can't be translated back into our limited 3D 'consciousness'. Perhaps it is the same or similar as 4D, but the fact that we're unaware of it in our waking state means we haven't developed the circuitry to be able to handle it, IMO.

 

[jordifs]

Thanks AI for your post. Very interesting remark.

I recognise the fourth type as it is what I perceived the first time it happened to me. I was on Zazen (before EE) and the third day I did perceived 5 minutes passed, when 55 minutes were gone. I was shocked. On EE it eventually happens also, but I belief that for me the "no seed" meditation works better than listening an audio track. Analysing why may it be, I understood that any external input is perceived by the body and triggers distraction even on the brain. So it is much more difficult to focus and zone out on a noisy ambient, than on a silent one.

IMO the prayer of the soul is not just only -a- seed, but has been worked out over the years. In comparison to some other suggesting seed meditations. And zoning out, is imo not the goal while doing the -seed- meditation, but more or less a byproduct of it.

Or do you mean, using the prayer saying it only to yourself, instead of listening to the audio?

My two cents. :)

Legolas,

I do agree with your opinion. To pray is one concept, the 'seed' meditation is a different concept. I do not confuse them. But on the 'no seed' which is equivalent to 'no think', or keep the mind empty/blank. This technique help me a lot during my initiation (previous to EE).

I agree that zone out is not a goal. Nevertheless it is a nice byproduct, this experience (a milestone I may say).

On POTS, I breath in and out as suggested (for each sentence/phrase). So in essence I cannot verbalise. During POTS I see that a lot thoughts cross my mind, on previous parts do not happen, but on POST usually disturb me. I do not want to think, just listen. I belief that as part of the prayer, it is my task to think on each sentence, internally for my mind. Use my mind to recite each sentence, as I listen it. This helps me to eliminate unwanted thoughts. Nevertheless few times I succeded at 100% of the time. When I did, I feel so energised that sometimes I cannot sleep. Last time on bed during 3 hours until I fall sleep.

I need to revisit FAQ to compare my experiences to already reported.

 

[Gawan]

On POTS, I breath in and out as suggested (for each sentence/phrase). So in essence I cannot verbalise. During POTS I see that a lot thoughts cross my mind, on previous parts do not happen, but on POST usually disturb me. I do not want to think, just listen. I belief that as part of the prayer, it is my task to think on each sentence, internally for my mind. Use my mind to recite each sentence, as I listen it. This helps me to eliminate unwanted thoughts. Nevertheless few times I succeded at 100% of the time. When I did, I feel so energised that sometimes I cannot sleep. Last time on bed during 3 hours until I fall sleep.

Thanks for clarifying.

Laura explained some time ago, that meditating is like building a muscle (the brain) it is very difficult at the beginning to stay focused on the words, but with a lot of training it is getting better. Maybe try to wipe symbolically these thoughts away, or use a diary if it is getting not better, to write these thoughts down and to get them out. The crux is somehow, not to pay too much attention in resisting the thoughts, because it creates energy and the thoughts getting stronger too, so try to relax. :)

Data, are you doing just the POTS every night before sleeping? I found that first concentrating on the counting and then concentrating on the words mentally WHILE going into the meditative state via the breathing, can help with mastering the control of the mind. Doing it repeatedly, patiently, starting over when you find that your mind has drifted, but not being upset by it, is cumulative. It's like exercising a mental muscle. It gets stronger and more well-developed each time you use it.

 

[Aiming]

Laura explained some time ago, that meditating is like building a muscle (the brain) it is very difficult at the beginning to stay focused on the words, but with a lot of training it is getting better. Maybe try to wipe symbolically these thoughts away, or use a diary if it is getting not better, to write these thoughts down and to get them out. The crux is somehow, not to pay too much attention in resisting the thoughts, because it creates energy and the thoughts getting stronger too, so try to relax. :)

Data, are you doing just the POTS every night before sleeping? I found that first concentrating on the counting and then concentrating on the words mentally WHILE going into the meditative state via the breathing, can help with mastering the control of the mind. Doing it repeatedly, patiently, starting over when you find that your mind has drifted, but not being upset by it, is cumulative. It's like exercising a mental muscle. It gets stronger and more well-developed each time you use it.

I'm also currently training that mental muscle. I've generally begun to do EE more consciously, i.e. for a long time I've been doing it in some sort of passive way, just doing it and waiting for changes. But I've seen that this isn't enough. It needs my conscious input and awareness and effort. Training the mental muscle is one of them, but also to actually be fully present when doing EE. Because I used to simply let my mind wander and be elsewhere, and I think that's to do also with my automatical/sleeping propensity to shy away from painful emotions; the fear of what might come up during EE.

By the way, I haven't yet mentioned it: there was a time at the end of last year where due to Laura's advice I skipped the Beatha portion for a couple of months, and then I proceeded with only doing the Beatha portion when I felt it was okay for me. In the meantime I've come back to doing the full program twice a week, and the PB, Warrior's and POTS every night. I've also noticed a sense of inner urgency: there's a part in me that urges me to just try and do the full program every day, in order to speed the process up a bit. But I suspect this is again to do with what I recently brought up:

I'd be glad for feedback.

I have the answer to that now, fwiw. Given that I'm currently dealing with (to me) particularly unpleasant emotions, I think that it was related that I would suddenly remember what truth seeker had written back then about permitting DCM to help. In short, it was about me wanting to get it over with as fast as possible, i.e. hoping that thereby the processing of these emotions would be occurring faster and easier. As well as not so painful. Interesting how easily I can lie to myself.

Trying to hurry your conscious labours and intentional sufferings, as Gurdjieff said. I had been doing the same thing as well lately, until I remembered those two phrases again and thought about the deeper meaning behind them. Good thing you caught it! :)

Thanks for your comment, Daniel, it's much appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't have the context in which G said that and what else he said about it, so all I can come up with currently is that it's not a good idea to be hurrying one's process, which however is simply common sense.
On the other hand, it's like I've recently been simply opening my eyes more than before, like I've been shifting my focus from solely figuring out myself to the grand scheme as well; if thus a sense of urgency and wanting to accellerate the process come up, that's pretty understandable, isn't it?

Recently during the POTS I entered a certain state of feeling which I remember from my childhood. In my childhood there were regular times when this feeling would set in (it seems impossible to explain it) and it would increase and culminate in my whole body being within a vibrating force, which would get stronger and stronger. Usually, as a child, I was afraid of this and could make it stop. But another memory indicates that this vibrating state led to something else: I was kind of floating in my room and making the movements of somebody swimming in the water, in order to move around.
So this feeling came up again, but without the vibration and I had the impression that it was something for me to look into, but I simply couldn't come up with anything. I only remembered that once during EE, quite a while ago, I had this same feeling and it did culminate in me being within that vibrating force. Don't know what to make of it.

On another note, I have recently during EE felt my heart area to be having a hole, which was painful to feel. A hole and pressure there. I'm so looking forward to the day my emotional center finally opens up! Just wondering if I'm not doing enough, and if not, what it is that I need to be doing that it does finally open up.
For example, I still cannot feel the horror of the situation (neither mine nor world), I can only see it with my mind. Also, I'm still having problems feeling fully my own emotions. What am I missing? Why is this taking so long? What can I do to truly start feeling?

edit: Sorry folks, these last three questions were a vent. Only since starting EE over a year ago did I start to notice changes in my overall state. This is just my old issue of impatience. I have the answers myself: reign yourself in and keep working.

 

[Windmill knight]

Recently during the POTS I entered a certain state of feeling which I remember from my childhood. In my childhood there were regular times when this feeling would set in (it seems impossible to explain it) and it would increase and culminate in my whole body being within a vibrating force, which would get stronger and stronger. Usually, as a child, I was afraid of this and could make it stop. But another memory indicates that this vibrating state led to something else: I was kind of floating in my room and making the movements of somebody swimming in the water, in order to move around.
So this feeling came up again, but without the vibration and I had the impression that it was something for me to look into, but I simply couldn't come up with anything. I only remembered that once during EE, quite a while ago, I had this same feeling and it did culminate in me being within that vibrating force. Don't know what to make of it.

Do you mean you have the memory of literally floating in your room or just that it felt that way? Just curious here.

 

[Aiming]

Do you mean you have the memory of literally floating in your room or just that it felt that way? Just curious here.

Yes, it's a memory as far as I can tell. Could've been a dream state as well, but not just 'feeling that way', it was pretty real.

Again, it's networking that triggers further contemplation: I have made progress in accessing my emotions already. It's just that I want too much at a time. The five year old raising her head...

One thing that's real progress is that I'm feeling anger again. And that a trait of mine is coming to the surface again: stubbornness. I don't know when was the last time I could feel anger so clearly and experienced that stubbornness -- I think it was as a child. Seems I'm really coming back to life again and accessing my original personality traits, which got dumped in a year-long process of having been vicitmized. And just to make that clear: I'm endlessly grateful for EE, and those complaints were simply weakness, i.e. not being aware enough to recognize their origin/context.

 

[Sirius]

Hi everyone,

I did EE the last few days always at evening. And it had quite notable effects which are stronger than ever. The EE was practised the usual way and was itself not remarkable.

At the first time I thought that I shouldn't write about it since it is "subjective nonsense", or so I put it (which is probably just an excuse of the wrong personality not to look at and work on that "material"). I must admit that I'm not very good at networking. That's definitely one of my difficulties and thus barriers. But, how to do it otherwise? It's the only tool one is able to see things more objectively. Reading is not enough. Thinking and meditating are not enough, too. One 'I' likes reading, but avoids practical work. Another 'I' is master of the intellectual centre, but cannot handle emotions. Yet another 'I' is trained to do EE, but cannot stand up to situations in daily life, and so on. It's actually almost impossible to step forward alone. To escape this subjective jail corresponds to pulling oneself up by one's own bootstraps.
And it's the Work I have to think about all the time. It is as though there is a stream of thoughts in my mind that contains everything I read, I heard, I contemplated, like a refresh on things I've already learnt, but suppressed and forgot. I try to apply self-observation, however. And so it goes on...

One time I did EE I had something one could call "emotional breakdown" the following night. It was vomiting, not physically, but emotionally. "Obviously, I had eaten too much impressions, and furthermore, wrong and indigestible ones." I had to think and contemplate about almost everything, and especially about the 'why' and 'what else' and 'why not' in our world. I had similar thought patterns and internal fightings even before while reading G. and all the material about the Work which seem to be more correct than anything, but unreachable "at this level". So I "fought with myself" and contemplated and wept the entire night. I couldn't sleep one second. I fell asleep sometime at morning. And my final conclusion was that about the motivation behind anything. Why do people do anything? What's their motivation? And what is my motivation approaching the Work? Is it just fear? Fear of death, self-preservation? Maybe it is the fundamental STS fear of non-existence. Or something else? Further thoughts were that there is nothing one can possess in this world, neither material nor intellectual things. Everything will die and vanish. And one can do nothing against it! The material world possess man, not vice versa. There are so many illusions! And intellectual achievements? What is original and really unique? Probably nothing.
It's just the machine that can work properly or not properly all the time it is used, do good or damaging things. It cannot 'do' anything and it does not possess anything, but it can function in a certain way. That's what I thought at least. Perhaps the whole matter is about "alignment" towards creation or destruction. That's actually old stuff, I know, but it's always valid and applicable. The (my) problem is that everything is seemingly intermingled with emotions and the result is that the centres do not work properly, i.e. imbalance.

I did EE the last evening and slept very deeply afterwards. I slept even 14 hours, but was really rested as I woke up. I had some weird dreams, the nights before as well. They have to do with being treated unjustly and being "hunted" by psychopaths (a repetitive pattern), for example. But there are also dreams that are more positive. Obviously, it's trauma from earlier times.

Maybe I should temporarily schedule EE on a daily basis in order to master the very negative emotions which currently constitute in the majority.

EDIT: Replaced 'definitively' with 'definitely'.