Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

[Learner]

I didn't update here for a very long time. My practice had been quite unregular, though I managed to do POTS every night (maybe once or twice I forgot). Helping to keep better up with it and because I wanted to give something back to Laura & the Fellowship, I finally ordered the EE DVD before Christmas. It was delayed due to the holiday season and lots of snow and ice here in Europe at that time. According to my room mate it seems to have arrived now at my place (I am not there for two weeks), and I am very much looking forward to get home to find it there myself. :)

However, while doing POTS last December, I also experienced something like flashes of light, similar as described here. Once it was kind of emerging on the edge of my eyesight and seemed quite intense; I got pretty shocked and then it almost immediately waned off. I think, that it can also be due to not really having implemented the dietery changes yet.
A couple of times I felt like I have reached somewhat of a deep connection with DCM, and my body was kind of "vibrating". On other times, I can remember one incident especially, I felt deeply loved (of what I can think of that describes this feeling best). I asked DCM to forgive me, that I had rejected its love on another time (there had been an incident last February, when I had done POTS before sleep and I woke up from a feeling as like something tried to "get trough" to me with something that felt like love for me - I thought, it was DCM wanting to comfort me in sad times, but I thought I didn't deserve it and therefore rejected it).

 

[Learner]

I remember, that sometimes, but not so often (at least not consciously), I also felt a kind of pressure on my forehead while doing POTS. Sometimes it felt a bit uncomfortable - maybe I was just trying to hard to concentrate.

Lately, I've really been trying really, really hard to keep my mind from wandering about while doing the breathing and POTS. It's really showcasing what little control I have over my brain. When a thought comes up, or in, I gently push it away without nagging myself about it being there in the first place. But then there's the underlying thought telling me what to do. And then there's the breathing, counting and POTS on top of that thought.

At yesterday's breathing and POTS I imagined a river with very large leaves swimming on top of it. If a distracting thought was coming up, I "grabbed" it, put it on the leave, and sent it down the river. After that I could concentrate better. However, this is still an experiment in progress. I don't know, if this will work in every case - but yesterday it did (and I have much problems with wandering thoughts) and so I will continue to practice this.

Just throwing this in, however. :)

 

[l_autre_d]

Maybe keep record of your (blood) results and see what comes up next time. If you haven't done so, maybe you could try to get a copy from your doctor, so that you can compare the numbers for the next test.
And true tests can vary, but when you are feeling better, that's the best result imo. :)

I agree. I was diagnosed with cancer some years back (completely gone now) and always request a copy when there is lab work to see if the numbers are trending up or down and by how much.


Ljubica, sorry to hear about your grandfather, best wishes to you and your family.

 

[Learner]

Ljubica, sorry to hear about your grandfather, best wishes to you and your family.

My condolences to you as well, Ljubica. Wishing you strenght

 

[Aiming]

My condolences to you, Ljubica. I also wish you strength!

At yesterday's breathing and POTS I imagined a river with very large leaves swimming on top of it. If a distracting thought was coming up, I "grabbed" it, put it on the leave, and sent it down the river. After that I could concentrate better. However, this is still an experiment in progress. I don't know, if this will work in every case - but yesterday it did (and I have much problems with wandering thoughts) and so I will continue to practice this.

Hi Learner,

whatever works is good, imo. What I do (am also dealing with wandering thoughts) is to not struggle against them, but to struggle for the focus. Understanding this distinction is what has been making it easier for me. Have not yet used any images though, maybe I'll try that too some time.

 

[Learner]

What I do (am also dealing with wandering thoughts) is to not struggle against them, but to struggle for the focus. Understanding this distinction is what has been making it easier for me.

Thank you for sharing, Puzzle. Does 'focus' for you mean the action of breathing itself, the counting, and the words of the POTS? Or is it also something else? Regarding wandering thoughts, I also found it mostly in vain, to struggle against them. Such fights were usually lost by me. To focus on breathing and especially the count sometimes did help, regarding POTS I just kept doing, although there were distracting thoughts. On one or the other point they went away (but not always) and I started to get into deeper connection to DCM (this I can specifically remember from my EE practice in the course of last December). The image thing I introduced for the first time yesterday. Maybe it will also work on other times (I hope so)...

 

[Gawan]

What I do (am also dealing with wandering thoughts) is to not struggle against them, but to struggle for the focus. Understanding this distinction is what has been making it easier for me.

Thank you for sharing, Puzzle. Does 'focus' for you mean the action of breathing itself, the counting, and the words of the POTS? Or is it also something else? Regarding wandering thoughts, I also found it mostly in vain, to struggle against them. Such fights were usually lost by me. To focus on breathing and especially the count sometimes did help, regarding POTS I just kept doing, although there were distracting thoughts. On one or the other point they went away (but not always) and I started to get into deeper connection to DCM (this I can specifically remember from my EE practice in the course of last December). The image thing I introduced for the first time yesterday. Maybe it will also work on other times (I hope so)...

Sometimes it depends imo, when doing the prayer-meditation itself, if it is too late I'm having trouble concentrating and thoughts wander pretty easily.

Eventually vary the time, when doing the prayer, a little bit too.

FWIW

My condolences to you, Ljubica. I also wish you strength!

From me too, all the best.

And I like your picture, through optical "errors" of the eyes it looks like if the person is praying, because the eyes connecting invisible lines to hands.

 

[Juba]

Thank you EE family.

 

[Aiming]

What I do (am also dealing with wandering thoughts) is to not struggle against them, but to struggle for the focus. Understanding this distinction is what has been making it easier for me.

Does 'focus' for you mean the action of breathing itself, the counting, and the words of the POTS? Or is it also something else?

Focus to me means to be wholly aware of my body and what I'm doing (breathing), as well as focused on the words when doing the POTS. I've found that I don't have to concentrate on the counting so much, because that's become pretty habitual already.
It's as in striving to be present in the moment, and for me, the key thing to accomplish that is to really be within my body, if that makes sense.

 

[Seamus]

What I do (am also dealing with wandering thoughts) is to not struggle against them, but to struggle for the focus. Understanding this distinction is what has been making it easier for me.

Does 'focus' for you mean the action of breathing itself, the counting, and the words of the POTS? Or is it also something else?

Focus to me means to be wholly aware of my body and what I'm doing (breathing), as well as focused on the words when doing the POTS. I've found that I don't have to concentrate on the counting so much, because that's become pretty habitual already.
It's as in striving to be present in the moment, and for me, the key thing to accomplish that is to really be within my body, if that makes sense.

I agree with this. FWIW, I've found that struggling against thoughts/feelings/tension in your body, etc. is not only not only unproductive, it is a part of the state of mind I am working to let go of. We are working to release repressed emotions, are we not? Struggling against your thoughts and emotions seems like struggling to control and repress them, OSIT. Many meditation instructors might suggest that you simply label the thoughts as "thinking" and try to return to the object of focus, in this case your breath and the POTS. Thoughts may come up, feelings may come up, images, lights, who knows. When you realize that you've been carried away by them, just try to return to awareness of your breathing and the POTS. It is a good opportunity to practice being kind to yourself and non judgmental. The instruction is built into the prayer:

Clear my eyes that I may see,
Clear my ears, that I may hear,
And cleanse my heart,
that I may know and love the holiness of true existence.

The thoughts and feelings that arise unbidden while you are relaxed are part of your true existence. IMO the struggle in daily life is not to judge, control, and deny thoughts and emotions that you have been trained to believe are "bad", this is what we do unconsciously all of the time. The struggle is to become aware of how you control, repress and deny your true self so that you can let your true feelings emerge, all the while struggling not to react to the thoughts and emotions that arise by mechanically lashing out at others or at yourself. Sometimes it seems like a flood of thoughts and emotions arising so that you can barely concentrate on the words or your breathing, but this is ok, just let them come up and let them go. I keep reminding myself that I'm not working to have a clear mind with only thoughts of love and kindness, I'm working to experience my true existence, my true feelings, my true thoughts, whatever they may be. This is scary and goes against a lifetime of programming.

Thats my current understanding anyway. Struggle to relax... easier said than done :P.

 

[Aiming]

It is a good opportunity to practice being kind to yourself and non judgmental.

Thanks for mentioning this. I haven't yet considered this aspect, but it really rings true.

The thoughts and feelings that arise unbidden while you are relaxed are part of your true existence. IMO the struggle in daily life is not to judge, control, and deny thoughts and emotions that you have been trained to believe are "bad", this is what we do unconsciously all of the time. The struggle is to become aware of how you control, repress and deny your true self so that you can let your true feelings emerge, all the while struggling not to react to the thoughts and emotions that arise by mechanically lashing out at others or at yourself.

What comes to mind here is that what's coming up during wandering of thoughts is most of all mechanical stuff. I think letting the true feelings emerge is something that comes after quite some cleansing, but I could be way off.

Sometimes it seems like a flood of thoughts and emotions arising so that you can barely concentrate on the words or your breathing, but this is ok, just let them come up and let them go. I keep reminding myself that I'm not working to have a clear mind with only thoughts of love and kindness, I'm working to experience my true existence, my true feelings, my true thoughts, whatever they may be. This is scary and goes against a lifetime of programming.

Thanks for this, that's a good reminder: i.e. it's not about only wanting to have thoughts of love and kindness, but about seeing the machine as it is. This aspect has been a theme for me personally in recent weeks: I've been making progress in grokking that the machine will always be the machine it is, with all its mechanicalness and also ugliness - what counts is not to let this rule you, but recognizing it and then oneself deciding what one wants to materialize / live. The machine is what it is, but it's that higher 'something' in you that you can build and work to let it work through you more and more. -- Really interesting how much of what I know theoretically needs yet to be understood, that is integrated / made one's own by involving the other centers in the progress.

 

[Seamus]

The thoughts and feelings that arise unbidden while you are relaxed are part of your true existence. IMO the struggle in daily life is not to judge, control, and deny thoughts and emotions that you have been trained to believe are "bad", this is what we do unconsciously all of the time. The struggle is to become aware of how you control, repress and deny your true self so that you can let your true feelings emerge, all the while struggling not to react to the thoughts and emotions that arise by mechanically lashing out at others or at yourself.

What comes to mind here is that what's coming up during wandering of thoughts is most of all mechanical stuff. I think letting the true feelings emerge is something that comes after quite some cleansing, but I could be way off.

Hmmm, I think that makes sense. I could be putting the cart before the horse here by trying to let my "true feelings" arise so that I can see them before I really see and understand the programming that works so hard to cover them up. Maybe the mechanical wandering thoughts that arise while you meditate are the same mechanical thoughts that arise all the time to cover over your true emotions/thoughts/feelings. Thanks for pointing this out.

Sometimes it seems like a flood of thoughts and emotions arising so that you can barely concentrate on the words or your breathing, but this is ok, just let them come up and let them go. I keep reminding myself that I'm not working to have a clear mind with only thoughts of love and kindness, I'm working to experience my true existence, my true feelings, my true thoughts, whatever they may be. This is scary and goes against a lifetime of programming.

Thanks for this, that's a good reminder: i.e. it's not about only wanting to have thoughts of love and kindness, but about seeing the machine as it is. This aspect has been a theme for me personally in recent weeks: I've been making progress in grokking that the machine will always be the machine it is, with all its mechanicalness and also ugliness - what counts is not to let this rule you, but recognizing it and then oneself deciding what one wants to materialize / live. The machine is what it is, but it's that higher 'something' in you that you can build and work to let it work through you more and more. -- Really interesting how much of what I know theoretically needs yet to be understood, that is integrated / made one's own by involving the other centers in the progress.

I am really struggling to just see the machine as it is, without immediately judging it and pushing it away. I think "I" don't want to really do the work that needs to be done, "I" just want it to be over. Seamas wants to feel his "true feelings" NOW! I think that most of the time my mind is judging, controlling, repressing and denying in an endless loop, but I guess that is my reality right now, so I'm trying to see it as it is. Its painful and difficult.

 

[Seamus]

This quote might be relevant. It strikes a chord with me at least.

Lack of love for self, including lack of full acceptance of myself as I am at the moment leads to the rejection of self, which leads to increase of entropy due to the denying of being.

In my experience it is easy to get hung up on this idea of "I don't love myself, I don't accept myself. I need to love and accept myself more".

There is nothing wrong with loving and accepting ourselves, we all should do it, in fact, it is a major part of the Work on the self and requires daily practice and attention. But to sort out what are real needs are can be as complicated as the often very contradictory thinking that we have built up. How do we sort out what is real amongst the conflicting needs of the posited 987 different "Is"?

If you have narcissistic traits for example, then accepting yourself requires that you accept that you have these traits. You also then have to be able to accept this about yourself without falling into self-pity, anger and then the reaction to that - narcissistic self love.

Lack of acceptance of self is often rooted in narcissism and a narcissistic upbringing, but it almost always has a flip side of too much love of/concern for self. So which to focus on? Lack of self love/acceptance or narcissistic self love. Both?

Focusing on both complicates the matter because it is difficult to know which to apply in each circumstance. If we focus on the idea that we don't love/accept ourselves there is a danger that the narcissistic self love side will be encouraged and the selfish habits that go with it.. because this is a flaw in the character. A better approach might be to focus on the idea that we indulge our narcissism too much - because both the exaggerated self love and the self rejection are a function of narcissism.

"I love myself too much, I consider myself too much, I think only about me in most situations". Challenge ourselves with that idea and we not only cut off the narcissistic self love but also the self rejection because BOTH are a result of focus on the self in an unhealthy way.

Maybe an analogy is a drug addict. He/She wants to quit and considers their situation: "I am addicted to drugs and at the same time I hate myself for being an addict." Will I: solve my self hate problem by giving to myself more? But won't this just run the risk that I will give to myself in the form of drugs? Instead, it might be a better bet to admit that I use drugs because I actually have an overly indulgent attitude towards myself, both in terms of my self love and my self rejection because they are both over-indulgent focus on the self.

 

[Aiming]

Maybe the mechanical wandering thoughts that arise while you meditate are the same mechanical thoughts that arise all the time to cover over your true emotions/thoughts/feelings.

I think that's spot on.

I am really struggling to just see the machine as it is, without immediately judging it and pushing it away. I think "I" don't want to really do the work that needs to be done, "I" just want it to be over. Seamas wants to feel his "true feelings" NOW! I think that most of the time my mind is judging, controlling, repressing and denying in an endless loop, but I guess that is my reality right now, so I'm trying to see it as it is. Its painful and difficult.

Thank you so much for talking about this (the bolded part)! That's exactly what I voiced here a few days ago, and I then started to feel really dull for still being concerned with grokking only the basic things. However, I've made some progress there, because shortly after feeling dull, I realized that it's totally futile to be engaging in this program of putting down the self, and I told myself that even if I'm a slow learner, what counts is that I'm learning.

As for seeing the machine as it is, that surely is quite a call in and of itself. Where I currently am is alternating between seeing it as it is (or at least, as much as I can currently see), followed by programs of judging, controlling, repressing. But even if this seeing is still being followed by those programs, at least I do come out at the other end, realizing it was simply programs, and then to 'gather together' again and follow the unidentified course again.

edit: Thanks for that quote, quite some food for thought. Where did you take it from?

 

[Learner]

Legolas, Puzzle and Seamas, thanks for your detailed sharings about 'focus' as well as the ongoing discussion how you process your thoughts, trying to get through to your true feelings, etc., via EE (and other means). It helps a lot! I am going to apply some of it on my session this night to see, how it will work. Will keep this thread updated abput it. However, this all is work in progress, that can't be done in only one night... unfortunately (or fortunately, as the flavor of learning will be missed otherwise - which is fun [but mostly only in the hindsight, I think :P]).

Many things are still theoretical knowledge for me either, it will take time before it can hit through (I think). :) But I will keep going.