Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program
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gotogo
Jedi Master
Pete02 said:
When I heard about "zone out", I immediately 'connect' with the following part of ISOTM (especially BOLD parts):
[quote author=Ouspensky - In Search of the Miraculous p149]
The fourth state of consciousness is called the objective state of consciousness In this state a man can see things as they are. Flashes of this state of consciousness also occur in man. In the religions of all nations there are indications of the possibility of a state of consciousness of this kind which is called 'enlightenment' and various other names but which cannot be described in words. But the only right way to objective consciousness is through the development of self-consciousness. If an ordinary man is artificially brought into a state of objective consciousness and afterwards brought back to his usual state he will remember nothing and he will think that for a time he had lost consciousness. But in the state of self-consciousness a man can have Hashes of objective consciousness and remember them.
[/quote]
I did also experience "zone out" a couple times around Ba-Ha to meditation area. But I think it is not necessary. If this connection is valid, what is lacking is not energy but Self-Remembering.
The following part is from other chapter:
[quote author=Ouspensky - In Search of the Miraculous p202]
If we could connect the centers of our ordinary consciousness with the higher thinking center deliberately and at will, it would be of no use to us whatever in our present general state. In most cases where accidental contact with the higher thinking center takes place a man becomes unconscious. The mind refuses to take in the flood of thoughts, emotions, images, and ideas which suddenly burst into it. And instead of a vivid thought, or a vivid emotion, there results, on the contrary, a complete blank, a state of unconsciousness. The memory retains only the first moment when the flood rushed in on the mind and the last moment when the flood was receding and consciousness returned. But even these moments are so full of unusual shades and colors that there is nothing with which to compare them among the ordinary sensations of life. This is usually all that remains from so-called 'mystical' and 'ecstatic' experiences, which represent a temporary connection with a higher center. Only very seldom does it happen that a mind which has been better prepared succeeds in grasping and remembering something of what was felt and understood at the moment of ecstasy. But even in these cases the thinking, the moving, and the emotional centers remember and transmit everything in their own way, translate absolutely new and never previously experienced sensations into the language of usual everyday sensations, transmit in worldly three-dimensional forms things which pass completely beyond the limits of worldly measurements; in this way, of course, they entirely distort every trace of what remains in the memory of these unusual experiences. Our ordinary centers, in transmitting the impressions of the higher centers, may be compared to a blind man speaking of colors, or to a deaf man speaking of music.
[/quote]
Also the fallowing part can be important to be reminded:
[quote author=Ouspensky - In Search of the Miraculous p201]
The existence of these higher centers in us is a greater riddle than the hidden treasure which men who believe in the existence of the mysterious and the miraculous have sought since the remotest times.
All mystical and occult systems recognize the existence of higher forces and capacities in man although, in many cases, they admit the existence of these forces
and capacities only in the form of possibilities, and speak of the necessity for developing the hidden forces in man. This present teaching differs from many others by the fact that it affirms that the higher centers exist in man and are fully developed.
It is the lower centers that are undeveloped. And it is precisely this lack of development, or the incomplete functioning, of the lower centers that prevents us from making use of the work of the higher centers.
[/quote]
Mrs.Tigersoap
The Living Force
Thank you Anart for your answer. It is indeed comforting to know I'm not the only one.. :)
I didn't (and still don't) understand how one can concentrate on the meaning of the prayer if one zones out, unless of course, the concentrating is just a way to get you to zone out at some point.. (don't know if that makes any sense?)
Anyway, thanks Anart!
I didn't (and still don't) understand how one can concentrate on the meaning of the prayer if one zones out, unless of course, the concentrating is just a way to get you to zone out at some point.. (don't know if that makes any sense?)
Anyway, thanks Anart!
pete02
The Living Force
GotoGo said:
I agree GotoGo, I don't believe it to be necessary either. I have just finished another 'E-E' session and no 'zoning' at all this time. I think I'm going to try and make it part of my morning routine for a while and see if I have any different results. It is just more convenient to do at night because I have more time and I end up being so relaxed that I find I get much better rest. However I haven't had any emotional releases yet. A week ago I felt as if I was about to but then I lost the feeling so maybe switching up the routine will help.
Someone had also said something about maybe Laura's voice having an effect on the whole 'zoning' thing and that could be so. I definitely think Laura's voice has a lot to do with my results. Sometimes I play the E-E recording on my stereo and other times I have headphones on. When the headphones are on and Laura's voice is all I hear, it makes a big difference to me. Its kinda hard to describe but her voice 'moves' me more when she is all I hear instead of it just being a voice in the room. Especially when she recites the prayer of the soul.
On an off note, does anyone else find it funny when she says "As you see you can't say Beatha and breath in at the same time so I'm going to say it for you"? I don't know why but I get this uncontrollable urge to laugh everytime I hear it
Biomiast
Jedi Master
Mrs.Tigersoap said:
I'm also having a hard time in meditative part about concentrating on the meaning and zoning out. When I listen to audio program, I relax and zone out quite easily. When I do it on my own, I focus on the meanings, and I don't zone out either. My thought was that, others have the ability to do them at the same time by dividing their attention or some other mechanism that I can't do right now, so your post makes sense to me.
Just my two cents, fwiw.
I feel like I should share my experiences so far with the program as well, better late that never.
I've been doing it for a couple of sessions and the first thing I noticed was a strong vibration,
almost like an electric current for a lack of a better term in my chest, arms and legs during the round breathing part.
It was so strong I really struggled to lay still. My face I felt was doing some strange faces during the breathing as well.
At the end of the meditation part, when Laura says "Devine cosmic mind bless you all" I had an intense emotional reaction
as I was overwhelmed by sadness and sorrow and started to cry. I havent cried in years and it took
a while to get back to my "normal" state. But when I did I felt relaxed, energized and more positive.
I did not experience any bright light or purple "circles" expanding and contracting as I have been before with other meditations.
I only had one zoning out, it was yesterday as I was only doing the meditation part before sleep, I was sleepy
so I could have just dozed off, I don't know. However this is just my first impressions, I'll report back other "symptoms".
I will continue doing this for sure!
Again thanks to Laura and the team for the program and everyone for sharing their experiences.
I've been doing it for a couple of sessions and the first thing I noticed was a strong vibration,
almost like an electric current for a lack of a better term in my chest, arms and legs during the round breathing part.
It was so strong I really struggled to lay still. My face I felt was doing some strange faces during the breathing as well.
At the end of the meditation part, when Laura says "Devine cosmic mind bless you all" I had an intense emotional reaction
as I was overwhelmed by sadness and sorrow and started to cry. I havent cried in years and it took
a while to get back to my "normal" state. But when I did I felt relaxed, energized and more positive.
I did not experience any bright light or purple "circles" expanding and contracting as I have been before with other meditations.
I only had one zoning out, it was yesterday as I was only doing the meditation part before sleep, I was sleepy
so I could have just dozed off, I don't know. However this is just my first impressions, I'll report back other "symptoms".
I will continue doing this for sure!
Again thanks to Laura and the team for the program and everyone for sharing their experiences.
Pete02 said:
Well my reasonings were that if a person is 'zoning out' or is having difficulty self-remembering as GotoGo brought up
than in essence this may be caused because there arent enough energy reserves to allow the person to self-remember, to stay fully conscious or aware during the process. I would think that making an attempt or getting in contact with your higher centres would take a certain amount of energy and effort to do so. So in order to sustain this effort and create a permanent link or connection, a certain amount of conserving of energy is needed ...GotoGo said:
anart said:
When we did our Thursday Breathing Party though, I had this crazy "waking dream" of some guy wearing a backpack of some sort and walking along. I turned back to my left and saw him walking, and he smiled. The weird thing is that this person is no one that I actually know in real life, but I knew him. Or rather, I was sure I had seen him before. But it wasn't during another breathing session. Maybe in a dream or something...
I also had another "waking dream" of some kind of huge stone pathway (no roof, but walls on either side) that curved around and led to some kind of altar-that-wasn't-an-altar. It was sort of Chaco Canyon-ish.
I can say that when I do the meditation at night before going to sleep, it does seem really hard to stay awake. It's like doing the meditation immediately puts me into sleep mode. When I first started, that wasn't the case - I just had various emotions coming up, crying spells, etc. Same thing for doing the whole shebang during the day on Mondays/Thursdays - but it seems I now have these dream-like things.
So, not sure if that counts for zoning out or not, but somethin's happenin'!!
gotogo
Jedi Master
DanielS said:
Regarding 'energy', the following part from ISOTM may give some hints:
[quote author=Ouspensky - In Search of the Miraculousp 186]
We come to the conclusion that we must 'remember ourselves.' But we can 'remember ourselves' only if we have in us the energy for 'self-remembering.' We can study something, understand or feel something, only if we have the energy for understanding, feeling, or studying.
What then is a man to do when he begins to realize that he has not enough energy to attain the aims he has set before himself?
The answer to this is that every normal man has quite enough energy to begin work on himself. It is only necessary to learn how to save the greater part of the energy we possess for useful work instead of wasting it unproductively.
[/quote]
I think the 'quality' of energy or 'inner substance' is more important aspect in "an attempt or getting in contact with your higher centres" as "food diagram" in the Forth Way shows (see ISOTM C9). Also important to remember that the 'quality' of energy or 'inner substance' is the results of 'daily' efforts and will be accumulated. In that sense, how one spends time each normal moment in daily life is important and may impact significantly while one is doing Eíriú-Eolas - Breathing Program.
My point on "zone out" was not about if it is good or bad but about the possibility to See through as G says "in the state of self-consciousness a man can have Hashes of objective consciousness and remember them".
Also (as a complementary input) I would like to point out the possible impacts of Wave approaching on Eíriú-Eolas - Breathing Program. I am wondering if the effect would be same if the same program were introduced 10 years ago.
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Kresnik said:So, not sure if that counts for zoning out or not, but somethin's happenin'!!
I totally agree - didn't mean to imply that something wasn't happening! Something is obviously happening, from the effects it's had on me thus far; I was just speaking to the zoning out aspect. I'm thinking this breathing program could (and will) help a LOT of people. I think it's something that should be spread around, not only to friends and family, but to anyone who might be interested. There is a link to it from the SoTT page now, which is a good start!
Kresnik said:
Absolutely agreed. And yesterday I had some new feeling. My forehead around the "third eye" area feels kind of "heavy". Not like a headache but more like some sort of constant pressure there the whole day. There is no pain like a headache for example but just a heaviness sort of. Wondering if anybody else is having similar experience.
gotogo
Jedi Master
Vulcan59 said:
I have the similar experience on this "more like some sort of constant pressure" from the bone of nose to the "third eye" area. Usually the pressure appears around the middle of Ba-Ha exercise. For me at the same time both my hands get some kind of "electrified feeling". Both phenomena are fairly consistent when I practice full mediation mp3.
Kresnik said:I can say that when I do the meditation at night before going to sleep, it does seem really hard to stay awake. It's like doing the meditation immediately puts me into sleep mode. When I first started, that wasn't the case - I just had various emotions coming up, crying spells, etc. Same thing for doing the whole shebang during the day on Mondays/Thursdays - but it seems I now have these dream-like things.
So, not sure if that counts for zoning out or not, but somethin's happenin'!!
Same here. For the first weeks, I didn't fall asleep. Several times I drifted off (not sure if it was zoning or just sleep!), to be awakened by Laura's voice, or during the music at the end. However, for the past couple days I've actually konked out. Two nights ago I feel into a deep sleep before Laura even started reciting the prayer! And last night, it was during or right after the first recitation. The strange this is, I've NEVER been able to fall asleep on my back, and it usually takes me at least 10 to 20 minutes of lying down to fall asleep. This led to some jokes based on what the C's said about the soul being taxed by being in a body: that the soul gets some Pavlonian conditioning and when it hears Laura's voice says, "Thank God, I'm outta here!"
I'm going to try to do it earlier in the day and see what the difference is.
Vulcan59 said:
I have had a similar experience for about three or four years now. I have tried formulating this in different words, and the one that makes the most 'sense' to me is this: It's like a magnetic 'ball' - when two N or two S poles of magnets are pressed together - that pulsates/rotates. During deep meditations - ESPECIALLY with prayer of the soul - and directing energy to it, it expands 'outside' of my head - there was once when it seemed to 'connect to my environment' and I had a similar experience to the psychadelic one, only 'holistic', if that makes sense. I opened my eyes and there was a 'living sheen' to everything - connected, whole - beautiful colors that don't exist in our normal visual spectrum - almost like every color had a 7 fold structure, and further subdivision. No other words. Does that make any sense??
Kris