Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program
- Thread starter Laura
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patty2292
Jedi Master
CeLegacy said:
Sorry for not elaborating, i meant the full EE program, which includes the meditation portion at the end. Also, if you want to practise meditation on its own, it was discussed in the recent C's session
Session 29 August 2015
Eboard10 said:
You will find in the transcripts the Q: stands for question. A: is the answer, which is the Cs as has been stated above. (A) is for Ark, Laura's husband.
I think that reading The Wave series is really important. It give context to what was happening during the Cs experiment to Laura, how not all the questions she asked were really the questions she was asking a she had mental questions that she was asking instead and how the Cs answered. It's really quite the adventure; and Laura makes it not only easy to read, but entertaining at times, too.
To understand what is going on with the vagus nerve, did you listen to all of the 1st part of the video with Laura explaining things? Also, there is this thread:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,14410.0.html
that deals with a lot of questions and other things that have been discussed about EE.
It seems that I'm back in business, so to speak. :)
Since the last session where the main topic was meditation, I tried to be more vigilant in controlling my thoughts. During the meditation and during the day.
I also have read the "Myth of Sanity" by Martha Stout, and I finally got idea about what this "remembering yourself" is all about. I think that Martha described the process much better that Gurdjieff, at least for me.
So I started to fight more consciously against my dissociations, which I developed through my life, and very soon I got some interesting results.
The energy started to flow more intensely during the meditation and now i think I'm back to what I call phase 1.
I started to keep a journal of my experiences and it seems that there is some rule about this process. Every five or six days I experience a strong surge of energy. I don't zone out, I do not focus my thoughts anymore than the other days, but for some reason this happens only after five or six days.
My guess, after reading the Gurdjieff's work, is that some sort of elements are being created during the day, and that after I reach some sort of threshold of amount of them, which requires a couple of days, I am able to produce during my meditation some other elements.
Last night I could feel in my chest area a definite feeling that the energy is coming a couple of seconds before it came. It was a very nice feeling. And then the energy came and it was flowing through my body. It lasted maybe a minute and then it was gone. After that, and during the regular days I can feel the warmth in my body, like I activated a personal sauna, which is nice but it is not an intensive feeling. Just warmth and relaxed state. Most of the flow of energy I feel on my palms and soles.
So now I'm hoping that I will eventually come back to the phase 2.
In phase 2 the energy is even more intense, it last shorter, and it is connected with my breathing. Like when you have a fire and when you add oxygen it intensifies. So in that phase when I breathe in it increases, and when I breathe out it decreases a little. On the other hand, in phase 1 once the energy starts flowing it is not connected with my breathing. It has the constant intensity.
So overall, I think that controlling our daily dissociations is equally important as fighting against it during the meditation. It seems to me that the amount of certain elements, or hydrogens as Gurdjieff calls them, that we created during the "self-remembering" pays of in our meditations.
Since the last session where the main topic was meditation, I tried to be more vigilant in controlling my thoughts. During the meditation and during the day.
I also have read the "Myth of Sanity" by Martha Stout, and I finally got idea about what this "remembering yourself" is all about. I think that Martha described the process much better that Gurdjieff, at least for me.
So I started to fight more consciously against my dissociations, which I developed through my life, and very soon I got some interesting results.
The energy started to flow more intensely during the meditation and now i think I'm back to what I call phase 1.
I started to keep a journal of my experiences and it seems that there is some rule about this process. Every five or six days I experience a strong surge of energy. I don't zone out, I do not focus my thoughts anymore than the other days, but for some reason this happens only after five or six days.
My guess, after reading the Gurdjieff's work, is that some sort of elements are being created during the day, and that after I reach some sort of threshold of amount of them, which requires a couple of days, I am able to produce during my meditation some other elements.
Last night I could feel in my chest area a definite feeling that the energy is coming a couple of seconds before it came. It was a very nice feeling. And then the energy came and it was flowing through my body. It lasted maybe a minute and then it was gone. After that, and during the regular days I can feel the warmth in my body, like I activated a personal sauna, which is nice but it is not an intensive feeling. Just warmth and relaxed state. Most of the flow of energy I feel on my palms and soles.
So now I'm hoping that I will eventually come back to the phase 2.
In phase 2 the energy is even more intense, it last shorter, and it is connected with my breathing. Like when you have a fire and when you add oxygen it intensifies. So in that phase when I breathe in it increases, and when I breathe out it decreases a little. On the other hand, in phase 1 once the energy starts flowing it is not connected with my breathing. It has the constant intensity.
So overall, I think that controlling our daily dissociations is equally important as fighting against it during the meditation. It seems to me that the amount of certain elements, or hydrogens as Gurdjieff calls them, that we created during the "self-remembering" pays of in our meditations.
I'd like to finally share some of my experiences with EE - I'm doing the pipe breathing and warrior breath almost every morning now for about two and a half years, after 10-15 minutes of stretching and basic Pilates exercises. I also went through the prayer of the soul on my mind while slowly breathing basically every night in this time. Before, I did the program only occasionally. Recently, I started doing the bio-energetic breathing, followed by the meditation part, and plan to do it at least once per week.
I also started experimenting with a combination of pipe breathing and the new meditation exercise Laura/the C's suggested: during pipe breathing in the morning I repeat the POTS in my mind in such a way that every line goes with an in-breath or an out-breath, which means that there is space between the lines. While doing this, I completely calm my mind and concentrate on the body - it's interesting to notice if and when thoughts slip in. Sometimes I can hold this calmness for a long time, sometimes it seems impossible to fight the thoughts/visualisations coming up. I don't know if that was how Laura meant it? But it seems to do me really good - I feel that I'm making progress with my ability to control my thoughts and escape the trap of "living in my head". Sometimes, I even got quite deep sensations, a feeling that the (imaginary) sound waves of the recited POTS deeply "reverberate" within me, touching every cell in my whole body and opening up my solar plexus. In these states, I felt a deep "push"/desire to DO something, to share, almost like a telegram from the universe in the form of feelings, kind of like a mixture of deep joy and deep sadness, like an energy that can only be released by DOING/sharing. I feel this kind of energy can give me the needed push and lead to joy (when I achieve something based on this) but it can also lead to depression, when I'm under the impression that I "failed" or when another little I takes over and I misjudge the meaning of this energy and block it.
Speaking of body awareness - I think this was/is a very important issue for me, since I'm clearly a "head guy". What helped me a lot here, I think, is something obyvatel recommended somewhere and that Ouspensky also talks about (I think) in a different context: during pipe breathing, I concentrate on a specific part of my body for 2 consecutive breaths, and then gently change the perception to the next body part, moving in a circle. I start with my head (including neck, teeth etc.), then move to my left shoulder, back, arm, fingertips, then my left pelvis/leg/foot, then the right pelvis/leg/foot, then my right shoulder, back, arm, fingertips and back to the head. I think doing this exercise for years now helped me tremendously in learning to be able to "leave my head" and to live more in my body when I choose to do so. This body awareness in turn helped me to better control my reactions to external stimuli, I think.
Other benefits of the program I noticed are a better overall concentration, a more "in-touchness" with my feelings and interestingly a better physical fitness - I can walk stairs or hike on mountains much more easily, and both my wife and I (we do the program together) noticed that when we are hiking with other people, even those who quit smoking (sic) and are practicing endurance sports are oftentimes exhausted faster than we are. Of course there may be other reasons involved, but we both have the impression it has a lot to do with the breathing. I'm also fairly convinced that it strengthens the immune system and has helped to prevent me from getting the cold/flu a couple of times.
I also noticed that it's okay if I leave a day out from time to time, but when I skip the program for two consecutive days, I really feel that something's missing, that I have a harder time to concentrate, that I'm less in control of myself...
Now that all sounds great, but it is important to mention that for me, this was a very slow process. Frankly, sometimes I thought I couldn't feel the benefit of the program at all. But for me it really had a cumulative effect, as it is supposed to have I guess, and it is only by looking back that I realize what a huge impact the program had on me, and that at some point, the benefits seemed to grow exponentially.
As for the bio-energetic breathing, I kind of shied away from it and only now started it again, I think something in me avoided it and was afraid of it. And this is kind of fitting, since I still have difficulties with crying - it got better and I'm able to cry a little when I see/read/listen to something touching or sad, but I feel there's still a big lake of unshed tears inside me, and probably I'm afraid of opening the floodgates. So until now, I decided to not beat myself up for it, and that the time just isn't right yet, but I think now may be the time to re-start with this part of the program and see what comes out of it. I feel a block there and I guess it will take some time to work it out.
Thanks so much for this program.
I also started experimenting with a combination of pipe breathing and the new meditation exercise Laura/the C's suggested: during pipe breathing in the morning I repeat the POTS in my mind in such a way that every line goes with an in-breath or an out-breath, which means that there is space between the lines. While doing this, I completely calm my mind and concentrate on the body - it's interesting to notice if and when thoughts slip in. Sometimes I can hold this calmness for a long time, sometimes it seems impossible to fight the thoughts/visualisations coming up. I don't know if that was how Laura meant it? But it seems to do me really good - I feel that I'm making progress with my ability to control my thoughts and escape the trap of "living in my head". Sometimes, I even got quite deep sensations, a feeling that the (imaginary) sound waves of the recited POTS deeply "reverberate" within me, touching every cell in my whole body and opening up my solar plexus. In these states, I felt a deep "push"/desire to DO something, to share, almost like a telegram from the universe in the form of feelings, kind of like a mixture of deep joy and deep sadness, like an energy that can only be released by DOING/sharing. I feel this kind of energy can give me the needed push and lead to joy (when I achieve something based on this) but it can also lead to depression, when I'm under the impression that I "failed" or when another little I takes over and I misjudge the meaning of this energy and block it.
Speaking of body awareness - I think this was/is a very important issue for me, since I'm clearly a "head guy". What helped me a lot here, I think, is something obyvatel recommended somewhere and that Ouspensky also talks about (I think) in a different context: during pipe breathing, I concentrate on a specific part of my body for 2 consecutive breaths, and then gently change the perception to the next body part, moving in a circle. I start with my head (including neck, teeth etc.), then move to my left shoulder, back, arm, fingertips, then my left pelvis/leg/foot, then the right pelvis/leg/foot, then my right shoulder, back, arm, fingertips and back to the head. I think doing this exercise for years now helped me tremendously in learning to be able to "leave my head" and to live more in my body when I choose to do so. This body awareness in turn helped me to better control my reactions to external stimuli, I think.
Other benefits of the program I noticed are a better overall concentration, a more "in-touchness" with my feelings and interestingly a better physical fitness - I can walk stairs or hike on mountains much more easily, and both my wife and I (we do the program together) noticed that when we are hiking with other people, even those who quit smoking (sic) and are practicing endurance sports are oftentimes exhausted faster than we are. Of course there may be other reasons involved, but we both have the impression it has a lot to do with the breathing. I'm also fairly convinced that it strengthens the immune system and has helped to prevent me from getting the cold/flu a couple of times.
I also noticed that it's okay if I leave a day out from time to time, but when I skip the program for two consecutive days, I really feel that something's missing, that I have a harder time to concentrate, that I'm less in control of myself...
Now that all sounds great, but it is important to mention that for me, this was a very slow process. Frankly, sometimes I thought I couldn't feel the benefit of the program at all. But for me it really had a cumulative effect, as it is supposed to have I guess, and it is only by looking back that I realize what a huge impact the program had on me, and that at some point, the benefits seemed to grow exponentially.
As for the bio-energetic breathing, I kind of shied away from it and only now started it again, I think something in me avoided it and was afraid of it. And this is kind of fitting, since I still have difficulties with crying - it got better and I'm able to cry a little when I see/read/listen to something touching or sad, but I feel there's still a big lake of unshed tears inside me, and probably I'm afraid of opening the floodgates. So until now, I decided to not beat myself up for it, and that the time just isn't right yet, but I think now may be the time to re-start with this part of the program and see what comes out of it. I feel a block there and I guess it will take some time to work it out.
Thanks so much for this program.
Hi, Persej,
Thank you for sharing your experience and mention the book Myth of Sanity. I got the book yesterday and will read it as soon as I finish the book High Strangeness.
I am also trying to fight more consciously against dissociations like you, so maybe this book will help me too.
Hello luc,
Your experience is really interesting, good that make you completely calm your mind and helping concentrate on your body!!!
Thank you. I like to read other member's experiences, it seems, make me activate to stay with together to step forward.
Thank you for sharing your experience and mention the book Myth of Sanity. I got the book yesterday and will read it as soon as I finish the book High Strangeness.
I am also trying to fight more consciously against dissociations like you, so maybe this book will help me too.
Hello luc,
Your experience is really interesting, good that make you completely calm your mind and helping concentrate on your body!!!
Thank you. I like to read other member's experiences, it seems, make me activate to stay with together to step forward.
Kay Kim said:
I hope it will Kay Kim. :)
It's interesting how much improvement I got when I started to fight more vigorously against my dissociations. I was making some progress before, but after I read that book I knew that I have to really push it and not just stay where I was. And a first couple of days it was really hard. Because it is really a form of addiction. But nobody is publicly talking much about it. Except for Gurdjieff and Martha.
And once you realize that it is an addiction and that it is hurting you, you know what you have to do if you want to improve your life.
You can also read a little about centers from Gurdjieff or Mouravieff or Uspensky.
There is also a funny move about this subject that I also recommend: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0389860/
I don't like most of Sandler's movies, but this one is really good.
So if you are doing EE meditation I highly recommend to you to also start in parallel to fight against dissociations. You don't have to fight against all of them right now, but pick one and just fight it.
And if you don't do EE I recommend to start doing that because it seems that these two things work really well if done together.
I will report when something new happens. Last night was my normal night - a lot of warmth in the body but no special energies. It's like I can activate a furnace inside me, but only at certain days I have some special fuel that can burn strongly. At other days it is just a small fire.
Hello Luc, thanks for sharing your experience. I also find that when I bring my awareness into my body while doing POTS I can concentrate much better and longer. It has a grounding effect and helps prevent my thoughts floating off.luc said:
I also find that I meditate better when I'm on the sofa or floor (I have a bunk bed). Not sure if that has to do with grounding as well. Do you have a favourite place for meditation?
Hello Persej, I have been doing EE exercise about 5 months now and I have made some progress too. I thought I was doing perfect EE program, until today. I found that I was incorrectly breathing through nose. When I read Nienna's explanation about in-breathe,
Nienna Reply #3262, page 218...
When you breathe in through the nose, your glottis needs to have that same constriction as when you breath out.......
And Heimdallr Reply #3268...
Yes, the constricted glottis is what stimulates the vagus nerve. It's important to do that both with the in-breath and the out-breath.
And illustrated with diagram picture from, Oxajil Reply #3271.
So now on I will constrict glottis for stimulates the vagus nerve, both in-breath and out-breath. Thank you all
Nienna Reply #3262, page 218...
When you breathe in through the nose, your glottis needs to have that same constriction as when you breath out.......
And Heimdallr Reply #3268...
Yes, the constricted glottis is what stimulates the vagus nerve. It's important to do that both with the in-breath and the out-breath.
And illustrated with diagram picture from, Oxajil Reply #3271.
So now on I will constrict glottis for stimulates the vagus nerve, both in-breath and out-breath. Thank you all
Wow!!! This is really powerful, I just did round breathing that making both in and out breath constrict to stimulates vagus nerve.
Then I noticed that it stimulates whole body vibration more powerfully than any other time before. Seems like some kind of electricity flow in the whole body cells, every cells come to live and vibrating. It makes body heat up too. And violet light color energy is rolling on my mind's eyes.
I was so busy immersed in constricting in and out breath, there was no time for wondering mind.
Did I finally found all the perfect instructions for EE? Or more to learn. Anyway have to keep reading.
Then I noticed that it stimulates whole body vibration more powerfully than any other time before. Seems like some kind of electricity flow in the whole body cells, every cells come to live and vibrating. It makes body heat up too. And violet light color energy is rolling on my mind's eyes.
I was so busy immersed in constricting in and out breath, there was no time for wondering mind.
Did I finally found all the perfect instructions for EE? Or more to learn. Anyway have to keep reading.
It looks like you are making good progress Kay Kim. If you haven't already you could read the articles on the Eiriu Eolas website and the EE guide if you would like some more reading material.Kay Kim said:
http://eiriu-eolas.org/category/articles/
I've attached the guide. I hope this helps.
Kay Kim said:
The round breathing/Ba-Ha/Beatha is NOT with a constricted glottis. Please don't do it that way. It's just regular, gentle belly breathing. Some people get a rush (among other things) when doing the round breathing forcefully (never heard of anyone doing it with the constricted glottis) and that's not what we are striving for.