Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

Hi Persej, I was trying to simulate the constriction with my sinuses and I guess that what you say about dropping the jaw a bit would be correct in that case. (When comparing the constriction with the sinuses and the constriction in the glottis it seems that the jaw slightly drops). It's almost imperceptible, but I can feel that.

When the constriction is done with the glottis, I feel it almost in the back of my throat, as if it is somewhere in the middle. Don't know if that makes sense to you.

Maybe this image helps:

409406bcc6e44013bb8f27c7483b5488.jpg


If you can feel the constriction with the glottis when breathing out, maybe you can try to recreate the same constriction feeling when breathing in. Sometimes it takes some practice, but you'll feel it different than breathing in with your sinuses.

Hope that helps a bit at least! :)
 
Persej said:
I'm fixing the Serbian translation of the EE video and I think I just realized that I was always doing the pipe breathing in a wrong way. :D

Well, better ever than never. :D

The problem was in this:

Laura: Now, if you really have gotten some focus on that feeling of constricting the glottis and you can hold that constriction during the entire time you are breathing in and out then you are Pipe Breathing!

But when I was breathing in I was doing a constriction in my sinuses! And not in my glottis! And to do a constriction in your glottis your jaw have to go a little down, right? But my jaw was always in the locked position because I was constricting my sinuses and only constricting my glottis during the breathing out.

I would like to have a little clarification on this, if you can understand what I'm trying to say. :)

Yes. I can achieve better constriction in glottis if my jaw is just a little down and not in a locked position. Once you will learn this , then its not too much important, but even then its much better and more natural for me to do it with a close mouth, through the nose and jaw little down without locking it.
 
Persej said:
I'm fixing the Serbian translation of the EE video and I think I just realized that I was always doing the pipe breathing in a wrong way. :D

Well, better ever than never. :D

The problem was in this:

Laura: Now, if you really have gotten some focus on that feeling of constricting the glottis and you can hold that constriction during the entire time you are breathing in and out then you are Pipe Breathing!

But when I was breathing in I was doing a constriction in my sinuses! And not in my glottis! And to do a constriction in your glottis your jaw have to go a little down, right? But my jaw was always in the locked position because I was constricting my sinuses and only constricting my glottis during the breathing out.

I would like to have a little clarification on this, if you can understand what I'm trying to say. :)

The position of the jaw is not that important - I can do constricted breathing with the jaw up or down. However with the jaw down it seems easier at first to get the constriction down into the larynx. But once you get the hang of it, you can have the jaw in any position.

Another thing that helps to focus the constriction down to the larynx is to open the mouth about halfway and saying "ahhhh". Also it's easier on the exhale than on the inhale. Start with exhaling until you can feel the constriction at the right leven and then try to keep it exactly at the same level. This might help until you get the hang of it.

Not sure if that is of any help, but I have noticed this mistake a few times before - in fact I did the same thing at the start too.
 
Another indication that you are pipe-breathing correctly, is that you feel a small amount of cool air in the back of your throad during inhlation.
 
If you can feel the constriction with the glottis when breathing out, maybe you can try to recreate the same constriction feeling when breathing in. Sometimes it takes some practice, but you'll feel it different than breathing in with your sinuses.

Hope that helps a bit at least! :)

Yes, I think we understand each other, Yas. :)

The feeling is different, but also the sound is different.

nicklebleu said:
The position of the jaw is not that important - I can do constricted breathing with the jaw up or down. However with the jaw down it seems easier at first to get the constriction down into the larynx. But once you get the hang of it, you can have the jaw in any position.

Yes, you are right. I can do the glottis constriction with the jaw up. It was just a little easier in the beginning to differentiate where to make a constriction.

Another thing that helps to focus the constriction down to the larynx is to open the mouth about halfway and saying "ahhhh". Also it's easier on the exhale than on the inhale. Start with exhaling until you can feel the constriction at the right leven and then try to keep it exactly at the same level. This might help until you get the hang of it.

It was no problem for me to do a constriction during the exhale. And in fact, it is no problem to do it now during the inhale. The only problem was that I was not aware how to do it. :/

Not sure if that is of any help, but I have noticed this mistake a few times before - in fact I did the same thing at the start too.

Perhaps some extra explanation in the EE FAQ could be of help to some people.

Alana said:
Another indication that you are pipe-breathing correctly, is that you feel a small amount of cool air in the back of your throad during inhlation.

It was warm in my room last night so couldn't feel the cool air, but I noticed that my throat became dry (I forgot to refill my water tank).
 
In the introduction to three stage breathing and belly breathing, Laura suggests one should be able to move the lower belly about 4 inches but that the normal is only 2 inches and that one should practice with a big book.
Around minut 8:15-8:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRbyexZU_Qg a master of the Chinese practice of Tai Chi, Wang Zhanjun, demonstrates putting a weight on the the lower stomach and throwing it off, a practice called Dantian Tandou (to shake the lower abdomen), and he sure does.
 
thorbiorn said:
In the introduction to three stage breathing and belly breathing, Laura suggests one should be able to move the lower belly about 4 inches but that the normal is only 2 inches and that one should practice with a big book.
Around minut 8:15-8:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRbyexZU_Qg a master of the Chinese practice of Tai Chi, Wang Zhanjun, demonstrates putting a weight on the the lower stomach and throwing it off, a practice called Dantian Tandou (to shake the lower abdomen), and he sure does.

In some martial arts it is called "Tanden" and it is related to Oriental medicine. It is the "sea of chi" which determines the vitality of all the exercises or katas. The breathing technique is vital, as is coordinating your body with it.

It is the most important thing to my Japanese Sensei and I think that for him it has been a little bit frustrating to explain this for Western aficionados. Slowly but surely, the latter are catching up with the practice though. For me, it is the main reason why I like practicing EE with Martial Arts.

Here is more information for those interested:

_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hara_(tanden)

In the martial arts, Hara is sometimes considered as equivalent to, the lower of the three dantian (tanden in Japanese). Various styles of martial arts describe this as being just below or directly behind the umbilicus.[21] In Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) the by-name Dantian is given alternatively to three acupuncture points: the "Gate of Origin" (Ren 4), and the "Sea of Qi" (Ren 6),[22] and, by some, also to the "Stone Gate" (Ren 5).[23] All three points are situated on the midline (centre of the linea alba) of the lower abdomen (i.e. below the navel). They constitute part of the Ren Mai, usually translated as Conception Vessel (CV), which is one of the Qi Jing Ba Mai, the Eight Extraordinary Vessels or eminent energy pathways of the body.

Dantian is often translated as "elixir field", indicating that the needling points called "Sea of Qi", "Gate of Origin" and "Stone Gate" are not really sitting on the Ren Mai like dots on a line. Rather they represent a place from which the "Sea of Qi" etc. can be reached and influenced - either via the energy flow along the Ren Mai (Conception Vessel) or by penetrating deeper into the abdomen (the level to be determined by the length of the needle and the depth of its insertion, in the case of palpation, by the depth of penetration and Qi projection, in the case of breathing or movement exercises by the use of muscle tonus and combination, direction of connective tissue engagement etc.). Hence, as the point names indicate, the lower Dantian, which ever point it is associated with, ought to be seen as a three dimensional area of varying size inside the abdomen, not as a point on the abdomen. In that sense it is identical with the "small hara" or the "small abdomen", terms used in some Chinese classical texts and commentaries that discuss the origin and location of the Qi Jing Ba Mai (Eight Extraordinary Vessels,) to which the Ren Mai belongs and is connected.[24] Modern commentators believe that the terms refer to "the kidney reflex area below the umbilicus".[25]

The Hara or lower Dantian, as conceptualised by the Chinese and Japanese Martial Arts, is important for their practice, because it is seen, as the term "Sea of Qi" indicates, as the reservoir of vital or source energy (Yuan Qi). It is, in other words, the vital centre of the body as well as the centre of gravity. For many martial arts, the extension of energy or force from this centre is a common concept.[26] Many martial art styles, amongst them Aikido, emphasise the importance of "moving from the hara",[27] i.e. moving from the centre of one's very being - body and mind. There are a large number of breathing exercises in traditional Japanese and Chinese martial arts where attention is always kept on the Dantian or Hara to strengthen the "Sea of Qi".

Martial arts and the Eastern medical tradition

[...]

While martial arts teaching benefits from a deeper insight into the knowledge gathered in the traditions of Chinese and Japanese medicine, an ever stronger case is made for students and practitioners of the healing therapies based on those traditions to engage in practices such as Qigong, TaiJi or Aikido to enhance Qi cultivation, perception and projection. Certainly from a classical Eastern point of view, knowledge and regular practice of those disciplines would have been (and is) seen as an essential part of self-development aimed at strengthening the practitioner's own health as well as their understanding of the nature and flow of Qi. Without such personal and refined experience, it is considered difficult to foster and improve the skill of palpation at a level that allows the practitioner to determine the quality of Qi in his or her patient and influence it accordingly.[32] Likewise the recommendation for patients is (and has been) to engage in Qi enhancing exercise to regain and maintain health.

It all sounds too abstract, but the practice of breathing exercises puts things into perspective :)
 
Gaby said:
thorbiorn said:
In the introduction to three stage breathing and belly breathing, Laura suggests one should be able to move the lower belly about 4 inches but that the normal is only 2 inches and that one should practice with a big book.
Around minut 8:15-8:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRbyexZU_Qg a master of the Chinese practice of Tai Chi, Wang Zhanjun, demonstrates putting a weight on the the lower stomach and throwing it off, a practice called Dantian Tandou (to shake the lower abdomen), and he sure does.

In some martial arts it is called "Tanden" and it is related to Oriental medicine. It is the "sea of chi" which determines the vitality of all the exercises or katas. The breathing technique is vital, as is coordinating your body with it.

It is the most important thing to my Japanese Sensei and I think that for him it has been a little bit frustrating to explain this for Western aficionados. Slowly but surely, the latter are catching up with the practice though. For me, it is the main reason why I like practicing EE with Martial Arts.

Here is more information for those interested:

_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hara_(tanden)

In the martial arts, Hara is sometimes considered as equivalent to, the lower of the three dantian (tanden in Japanese). Various styles of martial arts describe this as being just below or directly behind the umbilicus.[21] In Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) the by-name Dantian is given alternatively to three acupuncture points: the "Gate of Origin" (Ren 4), and the "Sea of Qi" (Ren 6),[22] and, by some, also to the "Stone Gate" (Ren 5).[23] All three points are situated on the midline (centre of the linea alba) of the lower abdomen (i.e. below the navel). They constitute part of the Ren Mai, usually translated as Conception Vessel (CV), which is one of the Qi Jing Ba Mai, the Eight Extraordinary Vessels or eminent energy pathways of the body.

Dantian is often translated as "elixir field", indicating that the needling points called "Sea of Qi", "Gate of Origin" and "Stone Gate" are not really sitting on the Ren Mai like dots on a line. Rather they represent a place from which the "Sea of Qi" etc. can be reached and influenced - either via the energy flow along the Ren Mai (Conception Vessel) or by penetrating deeper into the abdomen (the level to be determined by the length of the needle and the depth of its insertion, in the case of palpation, by the depth of penetration and Qi projection, in the case of breathing or movement exercises by the use of muscle tonus and combination, direction of connective tissue engagement etc.). Hence, as the point names indicate, the lower Dantian, which ever point it is associated with, ought to be seen as a three dimensional area of varying size inside the abdomen, not as a point on the abdomen. In that sense it is identical with the "small hara" or the "small abdomen", terms used in some Chinese classical texts and commentaries that discuss the origin and location of the Qi Jing Ba Mai (Eight Extraordinary Vessels,) to which the Ren Mai belongs and is connected.[24] Modern commentators believe that the terms refer to "the kidney reflex area below the umbilicus".[25]

The Hara or lower Dantian, as conceptualised by the Chinese and Japanese Martial Arts, is important for their practice, because it is seen, as the term "Sea of Qi" indicates, as the reservoir of vital or source energy (Yuan Qi). It is, in other words, the vital centre of the body as well as the centre of gravity. For many martial arts, the extension of energy or force from this centre is a common concept.[26] Many martial art styles, amongst them Aikido, emphasise the importance of "moving from the hara",[27] i.e. moving from the centre of one's very being - body and mind. There are a large number of breathing exercises in traditional Japanese and Chinese martial arts where attention is always kept on the Dantian or Hara to strengthen the "Sea of Qi".

Martial arts and the Eastern medical tradition

[...]

While martial arts teaching benefits from a deeper insight into the knowledge gathered in the traditions of Chinese and Japanese medicine, an ever stronger case is made for students and practitioners of the healing therapies based on those traditions to engage in practices such as Qigong, TaiJi or Aikido to enhance Qi cultivation, perception and projection. Certainly from a classical Eastern point of view, knowledge and regular practice of those disciplines would have been (and is) seen as an essential part of self-development aimed at strengthening the practitioner's own health as well as their understanding of the nature and flow of Qi. Without such personal and refined experience, it is considered difficult to foster and improve the skill of palpation at a level that allows the practitioner to determine the quality of Qi in his or her patient and influence it accordingly.[32] Likewise the recommendation for patients is (and has been) to engage in Qi enhancing exercise to regain and maintain health.

It all sounds too abstract, but the practice of breathing exercises puts things into perspective :)
Thank you Gaby for the references to Qi, I looked it up and came across this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD2vuNS9ykg where the speaker, a Jacky Chan explains Reiki and Qigong, gives the Kanjis for both words, and explains what they have en common, "ki" and "qi". For a short video the explanation is fine, though he skips that Reiki also is enhanced with practice, or that both may benefit from breathing exercises.
 
Merci pour tous ces échanges si intéressants...

Thank you for all these interesting exchanges ...
 
I also did pipe breathing the same way as Persej and that was wrong. Yes,better ever than never.Thanks for advices .
 
I had new experience during last night Prayer of the Soul meditation, normally after POTS, I do sleep peacefully.
But last night, I couldn't sleep, because the end of the meditation, my body started to vibrate more strongly, it seems like my whole cells activates faster and faster.
And then, around my Solar Plexus area energy became different than my body, it was cool energy or something else but pleasant.
I stayed like that for long time. I don't know how long that was.
 
Hey Kay Kim,

I find on my body the same experience, cool liquid energy surrounding the belly/plexus. For me it has activated when I was Pipe Breathing after a salt loading in the morning, I felt the wave of flushing toxines becoming volatil as I was pipe breathing, after I stopped, pain bloating in the intestines begin again. Which made think of the importance of working the Hara and practicing Pipe Breathing.
I found that placing my mental in a peace state or in the underlying space BEFORE meditating made the release much simpler.
 
Nico said:
I found that placing my mental in a peace state or in the underlying space BEFORE meditating made the release much simpler.

Hello Nico,
Could you explain to me what is underlying space? Or how you place your mental mind to underlying space. Thanks!
 
For example when I am in pain about anything, I notice the pain AND the space that is around, in or on, or underlying the seemingly disturbful sensation. Usually it automatically put the pain in perspective and ease the process .
I believe every process as its own way of working and the only thing we can do is to accompagning it the more closely/consciously/awake we can. We have truly no power over any processes, until we pass through it a certain time, and in fact, I don't even know if after that, we have a power over it, we are simply seeing it.

There is no good way to do it, just experiment, simply notice the movement AND the space around and stay beyond them both.

Hope it helps :)
 
agirl said:
I also did pipe breathing the same way as Persej and that was wrong. Yes,better ever than never.Thanks for advices .

I'm glad that my discovery also helped somebody else. :)
 
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