Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

Kay Kim

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thank you Nico,

I was doing just rides the energy from EE exercise, but now I will pay more attention to energy movement and space around and beyond them.
 

Temperance

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Persej said:
agirl said:
I also did pipe breathing the same way as Persej and that was wrong. Yes,better ever than never.Thanks for advices .

I'm glad that my discovery also helped somebody else. :)
Helped me too! I was constricting my sinuses as well, but didn't realize it until I read this. I was also constricting the throat as well, though, but because I was getting less air due to the sinus constriction, I didn't feel the cool air in the back of my throat as was mentioned. It made a huge difference when I relaxed my sinuses! Getting much more air with less work on my part, so overall the whole thing becomes more relaxing. Thank you Alana, Yas, and Persej!
 

cs21

Padawan Learner
Nienna said:
nicklebleu said:
Rudy said:
Hi lainey, was searching the topic of EE for the exact sensations as you describe so well. Just want to thank you for your clarifying post. I do intensely tingle up, especially the mouth and the fingers but also the spine during beatha. I now even more enjoy doing the EE on Mondays and Thursdays. Thank you

The tingling you describe is most likely due to hyperventilation, so you might need to slow down your breathing a bit. While a mild form of hyperventilation might help the process, what you describe is too much and may have some adverse effects.

Exactly! Your breathing should be gentle, even on the fast portion of the breatha - breathe gently in through the nose and out through the mouth with no pause in between for the breatha. None of it should be forceful except for the Warrior's Breath. :)

I had the same issue, and my hands were paralysed a bit, so, I should experiment a gentle breathing during breatha... Thank you so much for your advice !
 

Kay Kim

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
When I started EE about two years ago, I had to adjust correct ways to do few times. And I felt that the EE was too long time to finish, although I kept up to do every days.

But nowadays I feels, all the EE is too short, seems I just started few minutes ago but already finished. And the EE, singing, morning, and evening reading are very important part of my life now. And I like to continuously until my life is in this density.

But it seems so many things happening around the world right now, and who knows what's going to happen in near future, there might be no electricity or some other circumstances.

So, I have made small wooden beads to the strings that count to do EE correct way.

Three-Stage Breathing,
12- 12- 6 = 30 times.

Warrior Breathing,
12- 12- 12= 36 times.

Beatha/Round Breathing,
(30 slow, 30 medium, 30 fast)- (30 S, 30 M, 30 F)- (30 S, 30 M, 30 F)= 270 times.

Prayer Of The Soul Meditation,
6 times.

Then I memorized The Garden Of The Universe, Prayer Of The Soul, and Morning/Evening Reading to the crystals.

And some times when my son comes to my house to do something, then, if it happens to be 8 pm, I just tell him that I am going to rest, then lie down and Singing in my mind loudly. I know it work as singing by voice, because from my experience, some thought by mind is effecting in real life too.
 

Oxajil

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Kay Kim said:
But it seems so many things happening around the world right now, and who knows what's going to happen in near future, there might be no electricity or some other circumstances.

So, I have made small wooden beads to the strings that count to do EE correct way.

That's very clever Kay Kim!

Kay Kim said:
And some times when my son comes to my house to do something, then, if it happens to be 8 pm, I just tell him that I am going to rest, then lie down and Singing in my mind loudly. I know it work as singing by voice, because from my experience, some thought by mind is effecting in real life too.

Yeah, I think in situations such as the one you mentioned, singing in your mind is a good solution. :)
 

whitecoast

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I've been keeping up with pipe breathing and the singing, prayer, and readings quite religiously for the past few months. Over the last two weeks I've made it a goal of mine to meditate for an hour a day. I sit or lay down and recite the prayer of the soul in my head for the duration, while also doing a bit of self-reiki. Within the first five or six days I've been feeling an intense amount of focus, as well as "space" around emotions to process them more objectively. Doing so has also make the effects of dissociation through movies or daydreaming much more glaringly obvious in my everyday feeling and thinking. An example would be, instead of zoning out while watching something with a roommate I feel like I actually am spending more mental energy trying to stay "on top of" the deluge of impressions, which naturally made me wish to do so far less. Overall my experience with it has been 100% positive and I am wishing to continue this for a month or longer as well.

On the eighth day of this, while out with friends at a group meditation meetup (we sit silent for an hour at an open house-type gathering) I left my phone behind by accident, and a prompt return/search for it turned up nothing. I spoke to the host and he said he would ask people if they've seen it. We went for dinner after, and I did keep calm in demeanor and musculature, but for obvious reasons there was a distraught edge of emotion under all that. When I felt certain muscles stiffen, maybe my neck or shoulders in frustration, I would consciously ask my body relax so I could just process the event emotionally instead of somatically. That relaxed me, but produced a lot of sadness. When we returned to look again, the host said the phone was found. This was a major relief for me, but I felt like the ordeal did take a lot of emotional energy out of me.

The day after, I did notice there was a dip in my concentration ability once again. It would take longer for me to recognize when I've slipped away from the immediate task into imagination, or into a deeper dissociative state where I kind of zone/numb out for two to five seconds periodically and I have to ask people in whose company I am to repeat themselves. :-[ What that episode taught me was that this 1 hour a day meditation seems to help stockpile something in me that can help me stay on-task and self-remembering, but major emotional upsets or program activation (such as losing expensive things from carelessness) seems to burn through this very quickly, and the easy tasks become moderate tasks once again (at least temporarily).

Has anyone had a similar experience? How does one program our brain circuits so that these experiences don't drain my awareness as much? Does the emotion need to be vectored elsewhere in the psyche? Is it the emotional energy itself that leads to this drain? I found one of Laura's responses in the thread Can you self-observe 100% of the time? to be useful. Gurdjieff himself clearly encountered similar difficulties:

[quote author=Gurdjieff]As soon as the accumulation of energy which enabled me to be in an active state was exhausted, at once associations of both thoughts and feelings began to flow in the direction of objects diametrically opposite to the ideals of my consciousness.

When I found myself in a state of complete dissatisfaction with food and sex, the leading factor of these associations of mine appeared to be primarily vindictiveness and, in a state of full satisfaction, they proceeded on a theme of the forthcoming pleasure of a meal and sex or of the gratification of self-love, vanity, pride, jealousy and other passions.[/quote]

Laura mentioned a lot of detail that this self-remembering is necessary but insufficient for esoteric growth, and that one needs these emotional "shocks" to practice and train our awareness and objectivity. For Gurdjieff in part this came from the tyrannical political forces and conflicts he was forced to search and teach under. If nature does not provide these, they need to be induced artificially with the presence of a self-aware group to cover one another's blind spots. Is it enough to simply experience these emotional surges while trying your best to be serene and objective? What else can be done?

Thank you for reading.
 

Alada

The Living Force
whitecoast said:
Laura mentioned a lot of detail that this self-remembering is necessary but insufficient for esoteric growth, and that one needs these emotional "shocks" to practice and train our awareness and objectivity.

Which raises some interesting questions as to where and how one finds and makes use of such "shocks". What is useful and what is not.

The example of mediation perhaps enables for a short while for there to be a "space" or state of awareness that is separate, distinct, different from the personality/programs/habits that we live in most of the time. Okay, maybe that’s something. But what of shocks then? If we focus only on trying to regain and prolong such a state, where and how do we find the necessary shocks?

Going back through Laura’s post we see that shocks are necessary, so the aim I think would be in trying to understand that aspect far better and also then the ways which which we can find and use such shocks.

Maybe I find that I can meditate for a time, achieve a certain inner peace, okay, but then what if I still can get triggered by the simplest of things when I slip back into personality? And what if it happens again and again. Is the meditation not working then? If not then do I need to do more of it in order to resolve the problem, and/or, find other ways to work on the problem?

What can produce more for work, the inner peace of hour’s meditation or the friction that arises from losing a phone, facing a petty tyrant etc (people and situations out there in the world)? My take on Laura’s post that you linked is that it points more toward the more of latter, not the former.
 

whitecoast

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thanks for your reply Alada.

If we focus only on trying to regain and prolong such a state, where and how do we find the necessary shocks?
Obviously that is a self-defeating mission from the point of view of developing an I and a Will, since it switches the focus from facing adversity to maintaining easygoing external conditions (self-calming, as Gurdjieff called it).

All the same though I am happy with at least being able to develop a baseline of self-remembering in calm conditions. I suppose the next step is to introduce more taxing and stressful conditions under which to self-remember. Most of the time my meditation occurs at night, when a lot of the default mode networks ("ego chatter") in my mind have exhausted themselves during the day to some degree. I could probably improve the value of my meditation by doing it in the morning, when I get to face the full strength of my habitual thoughts. I wonder if eschewing pipe breathing and reiki (at least during meditation) could be helpful as well, since both make thoughts less racy and so make non-identification with them (and focus on the seed of meditation) easier than ideal for training. Of course more (and larger) shocks than that are needed to progress further along, but I'm trying to think in terms of baby steps. :)

What can produce more for work, the inner peace of hour’s meditation or the friction that arises from losing a phone, facing a petty tyrant etc (people and situations out there in the world)? My take on Laura’s post that you linked is that it points more toward the more of latter, not the former.

For sure, the majority of the shocks and growth occur in dealing with the conditions of life. I just hope I can remember myself enough to make use of the friction. Of course it can be wasted, but hopefully building parts of the brain that focus will help prepare for those incidents.
 

Phill4

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I wanna share my opinion on this topic and from what I know and experienced, First i wanna say that meditation in general can be a very therapeutically tool , in this I am saying that it can help in many ways in general, but not everyone is the same or has the same needs.

I see the meditation tool in context of the work as usual intertwined but in practical terms it totally depends on the practitioner and the person's awareness.

If a person dwells on a state of mindfulness, I.e. silence the mind, the person may attain just that a form of what the person can only associate with silence from his/her point of view.
if that person is full of "noise" in or out, it certainly have an effect of calmness only by breathing.

Note on noise: Noise, is the opposite of silence in the popular use of the word, there is never full silence and too much noise is a relative concept But for the sake of familiarity, we can take noise as the element in and out of the person that contribute to a state of restlessness or more esoterically speaking to the wrong use of the centers, imbalances or drainage, programs etc etc etc.
From that point of view the silence can be created by temporarily removing the mayor influences artificially physically (creating or having the space to) and then mentally, by (focusing the attention to the best of the person's ability in breathing which in turn stimulates the vagus nerve. or a seed in the imagination)

the fine line is almost imperceptible for that person in this case, the reason is the lack of awareness of the many states of consciousness in which we ALL people operate at ALL times, the centers, the bodies etc.


In certain experiences with meditation it Indirectly and accidentally helped me gain some awareness of my body and in very seldom occasions with my emotional states. calmness and relaxation people ten to confuse with silence of the mind, there are two different things by definition and insistently by purpose.


the problem is that all the things we do, and in this matter of discussion, meditation, have multiple effects in the multiple areas we operate from and these ares in their vast majority we are barely aware of, therefore when people experience seemingly unrelated effect of release or awareness as a result of meditation with the seed of relaxation they are accidentally experiencing multiple effects of the psyche being touched upon,worked on etc. the problem there , and hence why meditating all the time for meditating in the context of the work requires a very specific purpose and perhaps even supervision and guidance, is that we need to understands these connections and centers (for example, why we sometimes loop around a thought or a body gesture) both are in general in the personality, which is the way we are structured and configured ( A loop around a person at work that is bothersome to us from our perspective indicate the discomfort has a deeper origin and reasons to be) we cannot get to the reason why when we shut the messages(by means of removing influences of noise in meditation with seed of relaxation) coming from our emotional states which have an origin and also represent a form of a blockage and lack of understanding of the hypothetical person being hated as well as the hater.

Laura explains this point of how the EE meditation program works and its purpose, in the introductory section of the DVD, she speaks about the vagus nerve and the many areas that is stimulates and what, in connection with the always present stress factors in the environment, keeping in mind the idea that we store memories and thoughts and chemicals all thought-out the body, and that those things trigger another number of reactions , emotions, thoughts, etc etc etc, the way i picture the landscape of the mind is extremely huge
But the vagus never alone can access indirectly many areas, which as I said not necessarily the person needs to be aware of the be activated.
That is where the Work and meditation become hand on hand, IMO only when there is a specific purpose.
The other thing Laura said which i think is good to recap on is that these stress factors are not natural and therefore our psychic stress in many instances is also not natural, a stress at work from handling chemicals or whatever can be expressed as a totally different thought later in the day , the stress in that case enter the person and the person's memory as well as the way he/she is configured filter the information and connects the stress by means of association to a thought , person, place etc.

we are ignorant of the many levels in which we operate and also the way these systems are connected and intertwined, that is the knowledge we need to get in the work how our machine works and its functions.

in gaining awareness through self work and making use of meditation in awareness of what is being observed (particularly with seed meditation) is complementary if done in the necessary and required amounts.



On the other hand, a person enduring a number of problems can definitely benefit from meditation by induction of states of relaxation and regulation of emotions , in that manner the person can have the necessary emotional state to process certain ideas than when under the influence of constant stress or other emotion, which in the person's psyche is configured in a self draining way, in other words, if the person has a blockage and meditation aids the regulation of emotions and improves clarity it can be advisable.
In this case, the question can be what is the emotion in what G. describes as "an attempt at self observation", and try and keep on observing and looking for clues to better understand the origin of the emotion and all that comes with that, which IMO centers in the personality

Doing meditation though everyday can become a habit (because the whole system takes the whole state of meditation as a relaxation protocol) The problem as Alada mentioned I think is that it can leave us unable to use our own personality to work though things directly and in that case removes the possibility of acting from the personality (which is based on all the underlying blockages emotions and fears ) and working on them in awareness, therefore providing understanding the struggles of others and knowledge of the way our centers are configured in ourselves.


In the case of meditation without seed, if done in honesty, and with enough practice a person listens what is there to listen,, there is no underlying or covert purpose of relaxation, it then can become a transitory state depending on what is there to listen, and in a sense and from my own experiences seems the more useful tool that requires certain practice and continuity and perhaph many not even require a lotus position
 

Piscarian

The Force is Strong With This One
Eiriu Eolas purchase.

I recently tried to buy a copy of Eiriu Eolas from the related website by snail mail, but my order was returned with the envelope stamped " Return To Sender - Vacant - Unable To Forward". The address I used was,

FOTCM, Inc.
P.O. Box 292
Almond, NC 28702
USA .

Is this still a valid address or should I send my order to a different location? Any help is help, thanks.
 

Beau

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Piscarian said:
Eiriu Eolas purchase.

I recently tried to buy a copy of Eiriu Eolas from the related website by snail mail, but my order was returned with the envelope stamped " Return To Sender - Vacant - Unable To Forward". The address I used was,

FOTCM, Inc.
P.O. Box 292
Almond, NC 28702
USA .

Is this still a valid address or should I send my order to a different location? Any help is help, thanks.

That is not the correct address, sorry about that. We'll update the page with the correct one. You can send your check/money order to :

FOTCM
295 Scratch Branch Rd.
Otto NC 28763
USA
 

Beorn

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Felipe4 said:
I wanna share my opinion on this topic and from what I know and experienced, First i wanna say that meditation in general can be a very therapeutically tool , in this I am saying that it can help in many ways in general, but not everyone is the same or has the same needs.

Thanks for your insights Felipe4. For me it always seems to be a work in progress and each day has its own challenges. Some days it's hard to focus at all and others the meditation seems to happen naturally.

Felipe4 said:
In the case of meditation without seed, if done in honesty, and with enough practice a person listens what is there to listen,, there is no underlying or covert purpose of relaxation, it then can become a transitory state depending on what is there to listen, and in a sense and from my own experiences seems the more useful tool that requires certain practice and continuity and perhaph many not even require a lotus position

The lotus position is probably not something that comes naturally to most people and I think takes a bit of adjustment for the body to get used to it. At Yoga practice I use a blanket so that I can sit with my hips a little higher then my knees, as with the position of the sage that Mouravieff talks about. It can be a good way to focus but I can't say I've found the proper balance yet.
 

Phill4

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi Beorn, the lotus position requires flexibility in the knees, the way i try to do it when i practice this type of meditation (which is much less often) is that the knees and legs are in contact with the ground, when they are not the lumbar muscles need to make extra work to make up for it. It creates a state of tension where part of the attention is focused on having these muscles struggle and be firm.
Also that the feet are facing down and heels are facing up, because having them sideways create a leverage effect. I think the trick is to initially setting the sacrum bone straight first and then fix the body around it.
 

Dakota

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Even I have practice different techniques of meditation for 25 years I have never practice meditation on every day basis and that was always something that I missed in my life. For a last couple of weeks I have achieved to practice EE regularly and I'm feeling much better.

For my sleep problem I usually use melatonin that helps a lot, but since I meditate regularly I don't have a need for it.

Recently I have found great article on Sott.net: Demystifying meditation and tapping into the subconscious that explains what happens when we practice meditation and what happens when we cannot sleep. I don't about others but for me that is great info because I'm fighting with this problem all my life:

Once you get beyond beta, the first layer of the subconscious is the alpha brain state. In alpha, your breathing naturally slows down, the voice in your head quiets, and the more you continue to relax, the more you begin sliding down the ladder of consciousness into the theta and delta states. It takes relaxing, getting comfortable, and discontinuing thought to change your brain and body's physiology—and you do this every night as you fall asleep.

This type of circuitous, negative thinking manufactures corresponding chemicals in the brain that signal the body to feel emotionally. Once we feel those emotions like frustration, judgement, fear, or anger, we tend to think more thoughts equal to those self-limiting emotions. When this happens over and over, our body becomes addicted to these emotional states, and thus becomes addicted to the hormones of stress—further miring us in negative feedback loops. As a result, instead of sinking deeper into consciousness, our brain waves climb the ladder to higher levels of beta brain wave activity. In fact, this is where we enter the realm of high beta brain waves and now the analytical mind is now overly active.

These two times of the day are when the door to the subconscious mind naturally opens up. When we go to bed at night, the nighttime neurotransmitter melatonin makes our brain waves go from beta to alpha, from alpha to theta, and from theta to delta. When we wake up in the morning, serotonin—the daytime neurotransmitter—creates the same process in reverse; our brain waves go from delta to theta, from theta to alpha, and from alpha to beta.

As we close our eyes and begin the meditation process, it makes sense that we are changing our brain chemistry from serotonin to melatonin, and thus our brain waves follow suit. As we sit still and relax our body, we stop thinking because our brain is naturally processing less sensory information.
 
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