BHelmet
The Living Force
LOL. Like a tennis match. Can we see the slo-mo “instant replay” to determine if the ball was in or out?
Judge thou not. It makes things a whole lot simpler.
Enforcement of VAX escalating
- Thread starter CelticWarrior
- Start date
Judge thou not. It makes things a whole lot simpler.
Don Cesar
The Living Force
Hello genero81, another of the C's that I also like in the same vein I think, is ... Stop thinking 3D ! But I'm having a little trouble understanding it fully for the moment ...
United Gnosis
Jedi Council Member
Well, I do my best to do that, going back many pages, looking up the flow of the conversation around the posts I replied to, looking up the sequence of posts of each participant, re-evaluating the intellectual and emotional flow that led to each of my responses, and so on. I do think it is worthwhile, although I should not press the issue. Others will do similarly if they care to.
In the usual sense of 'judge', as in, coming to a conclusion and identifying with it, I agree. I'm not so sure about a transitory 'judgment', tho, something more akin to an assessment, that hits closer to home as the kind of work we do here, and I believe is a key factor in self-remembering.
Good reaction.
I guess it can be well-intended when people try to be harsh to force them to act in a certain way for their own benefit. But to me, reacting like this can also appear like emotional blackmail. For a lot of people, it can actually cause a lot of unnecessary pain.
We can remain angry at the state of the world. But in the end, it's just all very sad. But who knows, the tide may turn someday. Just keep doing what you can and what is right. That's all you can do. This way you can deal with it and live well. Where there are also plenty of enjoyable moments in it.
Wandering Star
The Living Force
I simplify it to: "Stop thinking only about saving your miserable skin."Hello genero81, another of the C's that I also like in the same vein I think, is ... Stop thinking 3D ! But I'm having a little trouble understanding it fully for the moment ...
Although it sure is something much more complex.
Well, the conversation has moved on considerably since I last posted, but I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't suggesting that people should take the vaccine and that people shouldn't resist if that's what they feel they need to do.
I was questioning the fervent refusal to take the vaccine even to the point of death, but AI's post made things a little clearer-
Some people may want to take this route, and others may want to fly under the radar and outwardly comply while inwardly resisting, doing so doesn't mean that they have given up and given in, osit.
I was questioning the fervent refusal to take the vaccine even to the point of death, but AI's post made things a little clearer-
Some people may want to take this route, and others may want to fly under the radar and outwardly comply while inwardly resisting, doing so doesn't mean that they have given up and given in, osit.
siftingmaterials
Jedi
This is the sort of thing that interests me. Yes, there is confrontational energy in this thread. There is hyperbole and also dogged insistence. I'm feeling all of those things. This is also my first time sharing with a group in this forum, so I'll disclose something.
I got both jabs. Maderna. The second one completely fucked me up. For three days, I was as vulnerable and incapacitated as a person aught to get. Anything beyond would have effectively resembled full-body paralysis. I'm aware that covid was quite similar to my symptoms, though I experienced those symptoms for roughly 30% as long as someone with covid would have. I suppose I also wasn't contagious because I didn't have the virus replicating or mutating inside of me, I had this odd little protein that was built to simulate and stimulate.
From what I can tell, I'm right on the edge with my immunization. My reading points to 6-8 months of solid efficacy against the virus (the original strain) before a steep decline.
The wildest take I've seen in this thread has to do with this concept of the green card, if I'm getting that right. It's this idea that if I get the shot once, I've essentially signed away my agency. I'm very resistant to that view. It's certainly not reflective of my experience. I had a network of people who cared and supported me through the process just as much as they hold space for me to pontificate about the overreach of the state and the unfortunate politicization of the pandemic and polarization of opinion.
I actually see very little difference between vaxxers and anti-vaxxers. When I'm in an anti-vax space, I'm ridiculed and dehumanized for my choice to get the jab. When I'm in a vax-positive space, I'm handled with a 10-foot pole and treated as though I'm not a serious person. The only useful conversations I've had are the ones that lead with a disclosure of fear because that's what I'm obsessed with and consumed by when it comes to this stuff. I'm afraid that the pandemic has catelized an irreconcilably addictive polarization of "light" that foregrounds a major cultural contradiction about what it means to stand your ground. The really troubling thing is that I see people on both sides using arguments that dehumanize the other. I have never heard of that behaviour solving any problems. Not ever. I'm afraid of the consequences. I try to complexify the discussion when I have the opportunity because I think skepticism and doubt evenly distributed across the thought horizon of the mind restores the scope of our inner witness. I would have us all pause and witness the severity of this polarization so that we could compare the risks of tending toward a trauma-informed approach rather against the risks of doubling down on our biases, which, by their nature, don't really require re-enforcement or sharpening. They're biases, after all. They'll do what biases do.
I feel closer to Joe's energy on this issue just in terms of his approach. I want to be confrontational. It feels necessary. That's my presumption and it's based on a fear. The behaviour feeds my bias. I'm trying not to judge myself when I say that. It just is what it is. It's harder work for me to walk a healer's path on this one but that's my aspiration.
A lot of true progression through human history flows on the blood of martyrs. And this will unfortunately continue.
That said, if you have the willpower for this. Play the game smart. Gentle as doves and wise as serpents comes to mind. I think that's lacking in some. And maybe I can play this game smarter, too.
United Gnosis
Jedi Council Member
I have nothing to say, and will likely step back a while, but I really appreciate what you shared, vulnerable but genuine. Thanks for those thoughts.
BHelmet
The Living Force
Interesting. There are martyrs and then there are martyrs. Trying to survive outside of the official green pass society, if it truly manifests, In a black market Economy, is one thing. Volunteering for the guillotine is quite another. I am not interested in the latter but more the former.
Would I get a jab to qualify for government Pasteurized cheez product or cockroach spam? Mmmmm. No. LOL! That would be the bigger martyrdom!
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
@siftingmaterials, thank you very much for sharing. Can I ask you a personal question, what led you to the decision to get the jabs? For the avoidance of doubt I'm not one to judge - I believe everyone is entitled to a choice.
Very silly question but I don't want to make any assumption. I wanted to check what sources of information you're using to reach the above conclusion? Is it anyone we would know?
Very good point. I suspect many people who took the "jab" are just like you.
This sounds intriguing - mind expanding on it or explaining it in a different way?
I think this is a natural and mechanical function - for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. People who perceive threat will react back against that which they perceive as causing the threat.
I think it depends - it usually causes things to slow down as the 2 opposing forces clash with each other.
True. We don't want to be overcome by our "machine". Not sure if you're familiar with any of the recommended books in the forum - if not, one or two could take your fancy for sure especially if you're into "esoteric" type stuff but with a practical application.
Explain
Very silly question but I don't want to make any assumption. I wanted to check what sources of information you're using to reach the above conclusion? Is it anyone we would know?
Very good point. I suspect many people who took the "jab" are just like you.
This sounds intriguing - mind expanding on it or explaining it in a different way?
I think this is a natural and mechanical function - for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. People who perceive threat will react back against that which they perceive as causing the threat.
I think it depends - it usually causes things to slow down as the 2 opposing forces clash with each other.
True. We don't want to be overcome by our "machine". Not sure if you're familiar with any of the recommended books in the forum - if not, one or two could take your fancy for sure especially if you're into "esoteric" type stuff but with a practical application.
Explain
Do you mean to "heal" the conflict in this discussion?
siftingmaterials, you are among a majority of covid injection skeptics here but perhaps apart a few exceptions, you are not deshumanised or anything.
A major problem is emotional thinking. Fear is a salient contributor and that's why one gains a lot by learning to think without the influence of such raw emotions. After all, this whole situation results from the PTB scaring people to death in the first place.
I heard somewhere an expression like goes like "hate the sin but do not hate the sinner". That's not absolute of course, but the idea is that when people are victims of their circumstances, you cannot blame them for being a certain way at a certain point in their life. For instance, I was frustrated and angry at people who, during a full lockdown, filed a permission from the police, in order to wait for hours to get injected. It looks stupid from the outside, but within the framework of their world (what they know and what they believe), it makes sense. We already live in different worlds. What will happend when some of them realise that they have been manipulated and lied to, who knows. Maybe some will experience suffering, guilt or shame, and it is up to those who were lucky to know beforehand to be there for them with compassion and clarity of thought, not as angry harpies or something. It is not just about us as singular individuals but also about others who may need assistance at some point.
A major problem is emotional thinking. Fear is a salient contributor and that's why one gains a lot by learning to think without the influence of such raw emotions. After all, this whole situation results from the PTB scaring people to death in the first place.
I heard somewhere an expression like goes like "hate the sin but do not hate the sinner". That's not absolute of course, but the idea is that when people are victims of their circumstances, you cannot blame them for being a certain way at a certain point in their life. For instance, I was frustrated and angry at people who, during a full lockdown, filed a permission from the police, in order to wait for hours to get injected. It looks stupid from the outside, but within the framework of their world (what they know and what they believe), it makes sense. We already live in different worlds. What will happend when some of them realise that they have been manipulated and lied to, who knows. Maybe some will experience suffering, guilt or shame, and it is up to those who were lucky to know beforehand to be there for them with compassion and clarity of thought, not as angry harpies or something. It is not just about us as singular individuals but also about others who may need assistance at some point.
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
Jesus... Maybe something in the air caused this discussion to explode here on the forum
www.rt.com
Don't do anything crazy people.
Man kills family, self ‘for fear of arrest over fake Covid pass’
A suicide note left by a man in Germany who killed his wife and three kids before taking own life, claims he feared he’d be arrested and his children taken away over a falsified Covid-19 vaccination certificate, investigators say.
Don't do anything crazy people.
I didn't see anyone suggesting that. What was being suggested was whether or not the idea of taking yourself out of the game (death or prison) is a wise response to the situation if it ever came to the point where it was that or getting the vax. It was in response to that extremist position that people made the comments. And note that the same extremist position was being taken by those same members against those who have already taken the vaccine. So the point all along here was to turn down the volume on the extremist position.
Making a decision based on fear is never a good idea, especially when you have needlessly worked yourself into the fear. We also sought to bring some balance to the claim that some have made that getting the vaccine is a fate worse than death, when that is CLEARLY not the case because there is literally no evidence for it.
Dunno about self-importance, but there has definitely been some who have exhibited extremist, fear-based thinking and sought to pull others into that same headspace, and others who sought to bring balance.
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And one we try our best to avoid, to the greatest extent possible. This forum would not be pursuing its self-appointed mission of using networking to bring objectivity to any given topic if it permitted members to give unchallenged free expression to their subjective 'parade of horribles', or parade of anything. And that of course includes me.
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