Experiment with the spirit board -lies coming through it & how to recognize them

[Al Today]

Well, if one has never fiddled with a board, they may not grok the seriousness of that deal. Kinda like telling a child that FIRE is hot. The child sticks their finger in and screams, OWIEE, that's hot. I'm not defending anyone here. I'm just saying that if one does the research, one could find board stories that could scare the BeeGeeBus out of them. Should make them think anyway? Ya think? Or they think themselves strong enough for combat (foolishness). Or there is an agenda here? Or you can be as children and admit a mistake and learn from this. Or you can be mad at me for using the word children. Or there is an agenda here.

See what I just said? This is an example of what can be running around the playground here. Just be honest, just for yourselves and get this over with... Let's get back to School.!.!.! Playtime is over.

Sorry for jumping in...

 

[Alana]

I think this present sharing is useful and part of the knowledge to be increased for everyone, as 'Knowledge protects'.


It seems to me that Ljubica, Zo and Saša (if I am not wrong about author's names) are explaining, or are trying to explain in a positive way on what they did in a negative way, if I can say it like that for simplifying the point. That honors them, because they do not hide, I believe, what they did.

However all must be clarified in the best manner, and I know this is quite difficult 'to deal' with all our egos, more or less important they are.

Yes, and this amnesia that all seem to exhibit about what exactly happened, is not helping at all. Ljubica and Saša, it would help us a lot, but also your memory, if you start thinking and writing instead of in "we" in "I" for this istance, eg. "This is what I remember, this is what I said at the time", etc. This way we will be able to help you protect yourselves.

Also, don't you find it alarming that people who have known you report here that they don't recognize you now?

Edit for clarity.

 

[François]

Your sayings are helpful, justified, well expressed and argued. That is clear, well done and normal.


But let me add from my little newbie position, and perhaps I could be judged as naive, but ...

personaly, I keep in mind that 'All is lesson',

and when we are on the way of learning, mistakes are done because we are not living in perfection,
I think this is part of the lesson...

The position to be alone (they are 3) in the middle of all the others underlining, showing the error, is not an easy one,
and I prefer believing the 3 are wishing to share, discuss honestly on the error done.
But I could be naive, and wait and see...

 

[seek10]

Yes, and this amnesia that all seem to exhibit about what exactly happened, is not helping at all. Ljubica and Saša, it would help us a lot, but also your memory, if you start thinking and writing instead of in "we" in "I" for this istance, eg. "This is what I remember, this is what I said at the time", etc. This way we will be able to help you protect yourselves.

Also, don't you find it alarming that people who have known you report here that they don't recognize you now?

Edit for clarity.

I am some what surprised to the answers , which says 'we are discussing' and 'we will do it' etc. Looks to us you are spinning the facts, probably scared or feeling distress in reaching to the memory blocks Or none at all. May be you want to read it and hopefully you can make a decision. I am sorry this will be a long text quote, hopefully helps.

The 'First Initiation' written by Mme Jeanne de Salzmann:

You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! ...

You live exclusively according to "I like" or "I don't like," you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you-theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your "appreciation of yourself" blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further.

This test divides men into two kinds: the "wheat" and the "chaff." No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures - talent, education, culture, genius-are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see - I see myself - by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your "I like" and "I don't like." Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying "sincerely" to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others - lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions - lies. Your teaching - lies. Your theories, your art- lies. Your social life, your family life - lies. And what you think of yourself - lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day.

You will see that you are different from what you think you are.
But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day.

You will see that you are different from what you think you are.

You will see that you are two.

One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.

http://www.gurdjieff.org/salzmann3.htm

 

[andi]

personaly, I keep in mind that 'All is lesson',

and when we are on the way of learning, mistakes are done because we are not living in perfection,
I think this is part of the lesson...

If I may add to what you are saying, I'd say that a lesson learned is a lesson learned. For example, you know it is not good to swim in a lake full of crocodiles, so lesson is learned and doing otherwise is not lesson but foolishness. That's the way I see it.

 

[François]

Certainly you are right...
...perhaps then it exists the possibilty to learn again the lesson,
or if not desired, this is assuming the risk to be less 'protected', to be 'in danger',
and to be a 'danger' for others who have reason to protect themselves, and wish do not live closed to the 'danger'...

 

[Alana]

I am also reminded of the story about the path to temple of secrets, from the Wave:

The Temple of Secrets is located on a high mountain, and everywhere thorns are covering the path leading to the Temple. The inconceivable, mysterious height of the mountain is the reason why many people doubt the existence of the Temple of Secrets. Some think of it as a Fairy Tale, some consider it an old Myth and others believe it to be the Truth.

“At the entrance of the narrow path stands Ignorance, with her sisters Stupidity and Laziness, and they tell awful tales to the travelers and of horrible adventures the travelers will encounter if they set foot on this path. That is how lazy Human Beings and fearful Human Beings can easily be persuaded to turn back.

“There are a few Human Beings on which ignorance attempts her deceptions in vain. They climb up the first part of the thorny steep path, and when they are about half way up the mountain, they reach a plateau on which they find the Temple of Self-Love. Next to this Temple stands Self-Conceit, Pride and Know it-All and they offer the traveler a cup, out of which he drinks his own Self in great gulps and thereby becomes intoxicated with himself, with his own “I”.

“These travelers then become so intoxicated with themselves that they imagine that their Temple, the Temple of Self-Love is the Temple of Secrets and there is nothing, but nothing, above them. The inscription on this temple, the Temple of Self-Love, reads as follows: The Sanctuary of the Wisdom of the World.

“Desires, passions and wantonness are the servants of these priests. However, those whose heart searches for the truth will not find any satisfaction with this and they will keep on searching.

“A few thousand steps from this Temple you will find a very secluded little hut, inhabited by a hermit, with the following inscription above the door: The Residence of Humility.

“The man who lives here guides the strangers to the residence of humility, which in turn leads them to Self-Recognition. This Divine Beauty becomes the traveler’s companion, and with her, he conquers the inaccessible mountain. Whosoever tries to reach the Temple of Secrets without this Divine Beauty can very easily be misled by his Self-Love, and as a result, will follow the wrong path. His greed for knowledge will lead him to the Temple of Curiosity. The inhabitants of this Temple are: fraud, seduction and deception, the founders of most of the secret societies, and those Human Beings who, in search for the Truth and for the Temple of Secrets will, if they join these Secret Societies, be robbed of the ability to see with their Soul. They are then led to the top of the mountain, where they fall into the abyss or into the labyrinth or maze, in which they will walk in circles for eternity without finding the Truth.

“Humility alone is the best guide. This alone will lead the seeker to the Master of Teachers of all secrets. This Master Teacher is the pure will.

“This pure will becomes the friend of the highest of knowledge and they enter into a bond of eternal union.

“The knowledge of the effects of the Eternal Light of godliness in all created beings is True Magic in Theory.

“The conception of this Light, or the transition from the intellect to the will, is True Magic in Practice.” (von Eckartshausen, 1788/1989)

 

[truth seeker]

The decision was a spontaneous one. Zo choose the color, I cut the letter, signs and numbers from printed paper, Ljubica made the drawings and the background. It wasn't like someone said "Ok, let's make the board now. You do this, you do that, ...", we just started spontaneously and did it all together.

Sorry, it doesn't make any sense. Before choosing a color a decision had to be made of making a board, and prior to this another one of needing a board. And frankly, the way both of you take part in this discussion gives me a very strong impression of a negative loop going on over there and lack of sincere will on your part to understand what all the 'affair' is really about.

No, it does not make sense, and this whole exchange is diving deeper into absurdity by the minute. Since the answers provided to a very simple question seem to me to fall into one of two categories: 1) deliberate obfuscation and deflection or 2) pudding brain logic, let me try to explain just WHY it is so absurd.

The question was NOT "Was the decision mutual?" The question was who first brought it up. Example: I want to buy a water filter. I ask my roommates if they agree that it's a good idea. They agree. The final decision is mutual. I brought it up. The fact that it was mutual does NOT mean I didn't have the idea in the first place?

What is so hard with this question?? Obviously SOMEONE had to first say, "Hey, why don't we try it out" or "Let's make a board" or "Let's have a session on Friday". To imply that you all simultaneously had the same idea and vocalized it at the exact same time is absurd. Sure, you may have all been thinking it, but SOMEONE had to be the first to say something and thus put the whole thing in motion. And if all three of you honestly can't remember who started it, that is not cool, and NOT vigilance.

I agree that it doesn't make sense. What I'm also really having trouble with is that neither of you have even a slightly different account of what happened which is what tends to happen in situations between two or more people. It's as if you both see each other as the same person and have no differing opinions about anything. The constant use of the word 'we' confirms this in a manner that is positively frightening to me.

I also agree with those stating that the transcripts were published to feed the ego and posted under the guise of 'don't try this at home' in the hopes of flying under the radar.

So, as was asked a couple of times now, can you please post your individual accounts of what happened without speaking to the other beforehand to figure it out - this may be adding to the confusion.

Your sayings are helpful, justified, well expressed and argued. That is clear, well done and normal.


But let me add from my little newbie position, and perhaps I could be judged as naive, but ...

personaly, I keep in mind that 'All is lesson',

and when we are on the way of learning, mistakes are done because we are not living in perfection,
I think this is part of the lesson...

The position to be alone (they are 3) in the middle of all the others underlining, showing the error, is not an easy one,
and I prefer believing the 3 are wishing to share, discuss honestly on the error done.
But I could be naive, and wait and see...

While all may be lessons, there are some lessons that one cannot come back from irreparably unscathed particularly if we're dealing with entities.

 

[François]

truth seeker,

Could you please clarify for me, I don't understand why you quote my previous message. Thanks.

 

[truth seeker]

truth seeker,

Could you please clarify for me, I don't understand why you quote my previous message. Thanks.

In order to answer it. Unfortunately I mistakenly posted my answer inside the quotes and it was difficult to see. Fixed.

 

[Laurentien2]

My impression is that Ljubica, Zo and Saša are protecting someone or something under which spell they have fallen. Until they expose it, they will remain under it influence and after reading all of this tread, they appear to have lost most of their rational and critical thinking already. It is time to remember yourself, put the ego aside, and to bring light , knowledge so we can help you. Can you see where you were leaded to do. Haven't you read in the last few week the forum and the attack upon it. Couldn't you see where your decision to publish this could fuel more attack upon the FOTCM.

It is time to silence your ego and to remember your self and regain control of your self.

This is I think a good example of this saying; the road to hell is paved with good intentions

 

[EGVG]

Truth Seeker

While all may be lessons, there are some lessons that one cannot come back from irreparably unscathed particularly if we're dealing with entities.

I agree with your response, they seem to be maybe confused, maybe something strong finally got the room that it needed, you know what I'm saying?
It just makes no sense to me, that forum members would put themselves in that vulnerable position, especially knowing that when dealing with entities they hold no power or protection against them, and it's clear that you guys where spoon feed the same program and are still digesting it.
Now I would say, you guys have to be in some sort of forum quarantine, I think that would be a wise and vigilant decision, just a suggestion. I feel I can't trust you guys anymore, just being honest. By playing with fire, you could potentially burnt us all!!

 

[Possibility of Being]

Certainly you are right...
...perhaps then it exists the possibilty to learn again the lesson,
or if not desired, this is assuming the risk to be less 'protected', to be 'in danger',
and to be a 'danger' for others who have reason to protect themselves, and wish do not live closed to the 'danger'...

It's not only about being a danger to others, though it is an important part of the picture. But then, we have this:

Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God.
Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation.
Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out.
For those individuals, the worlds will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life.
They will become merely a dream in the 'past.'
People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.'

Something to think about again and again...

 

[Peam]

Yes, and this amnesia that all seem to exhibit about what exactly happened, is not helping at all. Ljubica and Saša, it would help us a lot, but also your memory, if you start thinking and writing instead of in "we" in "I" for this istance, eg. "This is what I remember, this is what I said at the time", etc. This way we will be able to help you protect yourselves.

Could this amnesia of who first suggested they try the board be partly, and even subconsciously, caused by Ljubica and Saša, being so close friends to each other, are reluctant to point the finger at who it was? To me, that would make sense of all the “we” statements being made as well.

It would be a natural thing to do, but not very helpful to this network and to find out what was going on and to receive help.

 

[Cosmos]

Yes, and this amnesia that all seem to exhibit about what exactly happened, is not helping at all. Ljubica and Saša, it would help us a lot, but also your memory, if you start thinking and writing instead of in "we" in "I" for this istance, eg. "This is what I remember, this is what I said at the time", etc. This way we will be able to help you protect yourselves.

Could this amnesia of who first suggested they try the board be partly, and even subconsciously, caused by Ljubica and Saša, being so close friends to each other, are reluctant to point the finger at who it was? To me, that would make sense of all the “we” statements being made as well.

It would be a natural thing to do, but not very helpful to this network and to find out what was going on and to receive help.

i also think that this could be a part of the picture.