"Healing Developmental Trauma" by L. Heller and A. LaPierre

Altair

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Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

Approaching Infinity said:
luc said:
Approaching Infinity said:
I think that's still true. One of the things I don't like about the HDT book is how they present everything the book as pretty much open-and-shut, tons of declarations of fact without much data to back them up, all wrapped into one big 'grand-theory' picture.
I'm only 1/3 into HDT, but I noticed this lack of empirical evidence too, I hoped that this would come later in the book. So it seems they distilled the theory and the survival styles from their accumulated experience, empathetic intuition and self-reflection, rather than scientific experiment. And so far I must say it's astonishing - one of the survival styles (Autonomy) describes my whole life experience and that of my siblings so well it's almost spooky! So however they did it, they seem to be onto something.
Yep, that was my impression as well: they reached their conclusions through their therapeutic work. And I think they really nailed the "types" they describe. I'm just skeptical as to how normative the whole schema is. Basically, the schema is probably valid for the people who fit the type, but those individuals may be a subset of the wider population. I.e., if you took a hundred random kids who all experienced the exact same sorts of trauma, not all of them would turn out the same way. Some people are more "traumatizable" than others. And I think some of their "symptoms" are just personality differences. Like when they listed "interest in things vs interest in people" as linked to a survival type. Well, either men are more traumatized than women, or they're letting their own bias creep into their theory. I.e., "people with compassion are better than people without" - maybe that's true, but the "symptom" may have nothing to do with trauma.
There is no evidence indeed and they might have mixed some things. For example, they don't mention psychopaths/sociopaths at all but in their of "Trust" Survival strategy I saw many characteristics of them.
 

Keit

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Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

Altair said:
There is no evidence indeed and they might have mixed some things. For example, they don't mention psychopaths/sociopaths at all but in their of "Trust" Survival strategy I saw many characteristics of them.
Actually they do mention the word psychopath in relation to the extreme form of the Trust survival style. Perhaps the author mentioned it only in the lecture, don't remember, but it was indeed mentioned.

As for the lack of evidence based on an official academic research, that may be, but the work of Sandra Brown, for example, also falls into the same category. And in my personal opinion their descriptions and traits were quite spot on. But I am only at the third of the book as well.
 

Altair

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Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

Keit said:
Altair said:
There is no evidence indeed and they might have mixed some things. For example, they don't mention psychopaths/sociopaths at all but in their of "Trust" Survival strategy I saw many characteristics of them.
Actually they do mention the word psychopath in relation to the extreme form of the Trust survival style. Perhaps the author mentioned it only in the lecture, don't remember, but it was indeed mentioned.
You probably mean this quote:

Individuals with the Trust Survival Style seek power and control. They tend to be competitive and believe that “getting to the top” will satisfy their needs. They can be empire builders in both a positive and a negative sense. On the healthier end of the spectrum, Trust types can be visionaries and dynamic leaders; on the more pathological end of the spectrum they can be manipulative and ruthless in achieving their ends. Learning to trust is the missing or compromised core resource for this adaptive survival style.
I couldn't find any mentioning of psychopaths.
 

luc

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Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

Altair said:
Approaching Infinity said:
luc said:
Approaching Infinity said:
I think that's still true. One of the things I don't like about the HDT book is how they present everything the book as pretty much open-and-shut, tons of declarations of fact without much data to back them up, all wrapped into one big 'grand-theory' picture.
I'm only 1/3 into HDT, but I noticed this lack of empirical evidence too, I hoped that this would come later in the book. So it seems they distilled the theory and the survival styles from their accumulated experience, empathetic intuition and self-reflection, rather than scientific experiment. And so far I must say it's astonishing - one of the survival styles (Autonomy) describes my whole life experience and that of my siblings so well it's almost spooky! So however they did it, they seem to be onto something.
Yep, that was my impression as well: they reached their conclusions through their therapeutic work. And I think they really nailed the "types" they describe. I'm just skeptical as to how normative the whole schema is. Basically, the schema is probably valid for the people who fit the type, but those individuals may be a subset of the wider population. I.e., if you took a hundred random kids who all experienced the exact same sorts of trauma, not all of them would turn out the same way. Some people are more "traumatizable" than others. And I think some of their "symptoms" are just personality differences. Like when they listed "interest in things vs interest in people" as linked to a survival type. Well, either men are more traumatized than women, or they're letting their own bias creep into their theory. I.e., "people with compassion are better than people without" - maybe that's true, but the "symptom" may have nothing to do with trauma.
There is no evidence indeed and they might have mixed some things. For example, they don't mention psychopaths/sociopaths at all but in their of "Trust" Survival strategy I saw many characteristics of them.
Yep, I think they fall into the old "evil people must have had a hard childhood" trap. What they write about the Trust survival style may still be useful for those who have this sort of experience due to early trauma, but it's not very helpful to understand the nature of evil. Simmons' "Character disturbance" and Peck's "People of the Lie" are much better here from a psychological perspective IMO, while Raine brings to light some of the neurological and genetic issues associated with criminal and anti-social behavior that most people from a therapeutic background won't touch due to ideological reasons I guess.
 

Keit

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Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

Altair said:
I couldn't find any mentioning of psychopaths.
He talk about it in this video. Starting from 31:00 minute.

But I can see the point of it not being particularly useful for learning about the Nature of Evil or the Criminal Mind. Notice that he says that the extreme form "was used to be called" psychopath, and how it is hard to feel compassion for such people.

But I do think that the description and their work are still very valuable, especially for those, who fell in confluence with this and other survival styles, but do have the will and ability to change it.
 

Laura

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Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work


There is so much in that book, HDT, that hits the nail right on the head, that it is amazing. That was one factor that made me not care very much that he didn't produce a lot of scientific backing. He does mention Porges Polyvagal Theory, so he's up on that, and the purpose of the book was not academic but practical. So caviling about the books lack of "scientific rigor" seems counterproductive to me. I could see the accuracy of the descriptions in myself and in about everyone I've ever known even if they don't always sort out into discrete packages. He says himself that people are mixes of the various types, though there can be dominance of one type or another depending on circumstances.

The usefulness of the "types" is to help the person identify their "survival strategy" and thereby to have a tool for self-observation. It is also helpful to know that it is due to a cause and thus can be corrected if approached properly.
 

Pashalis

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Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

How I understand it is, that they put together a lot of different fields of already existing approaches of healing Trauma, each of which focuses only on a limited aspect of the trauma healing.
So the NARM approch seems to basically combine all those existing models of trauma work, that are already in existence and were widely practiced for decades, into one system that not only focuses on one specific approach but combines them all. As for scientific proof of the validity of their NARM approach itself, which combines a whole host of ways and tools that have been tested and studies for decades, there indeed doesn't seem to be a lot. But at least a number of the different tools and approaches they use have been studied and they simply combine it with eachother.

I actually think that their idea to combine all that has been gathered from different fields, including neuroanatomy and cognitive science into one system is quite a good idea, since as far as I know nobody has done so before. They also state in the book that what they describe there is only what has been gathered so far and that with new findings in different fields the approach might change in the future. From my standpoint that sounds pretty good.

Here are some of the methods that they combine, described in the book, among many others:

THE NEUROAFFECTIVE RELATIONAL MODEL IN HISTORICAL CONTEXT

A brief historical summary will help the reader understand how NARM both integrates and departs from psychodynamic and cognitive psychotherapies, as well as from traditional somatic and expressive psychotherapies.

Psychodynamic Psychotherapies

Psychoanalysis and psychodynamic psychotherapies have established the significant influence of attachment dynamics, early family life, and personal history on the developing personality. The NARM approach integrates elements of various psychodynamic clinical orientations: ego psychology, object relations, self psychology, and the important recent developments of attachment and relational theories.

NARM departs from psychodynamic approaches, however, in how it clinically applies the understanding of these approaches. Whereas psychodynamic therapies focus on attachment and developmental themes with the perspective that the past determines who we are in the present, NARM explores personal history to clarify patterns from the past that interfere with being present and in contact with self and others in the here and now. It brings an active process of inquiry to clients’ relational and adaptive survival styles, building on clients’ strengths and helping them to experience agency in the difficulties of their current life.

While it is true that a psychotherapist must be able to traverse difficult affects with the client, in order to avoid regression the NARM therapist always supports a mindful dual awareness of past and present—staying anchored in the bodily experience of the present moment, NARM supports the awareness of the distinction between what was then and what is now. The focus is less on why people are the way they are and more on how their survival style distorts their experience and their life in the present. Avoiding the trap of making the past more important than the present, NARM uses a dual awareness that is anchored in the present moment while exploring cognitive, emotional, and physiological patterns that began in the past. The NARM approach of emphasizing the here-and-now expression of survival styles, rather than focusing on a person’s history, is a complex and intricate process that is detailed in Chapter 10.

Working with the NARM approach progressively reinforces the connection to self in the present moment. Using resource-oriented techniques that work to recognize subtle shifts in the nervous system adds significant effectiveness. Tracking here-and-now experience in the nervous system is fundamental to disrupting the predictive tendencies of the brain. Paying close attention to the process of connection/disconnection, of regulation/dysregulation, in present time, helps us strengthen our sense of agency, feel less at the mercy of our childhood experiences, and most importantly, it supports the re-regulation of our nervous system. It is in the connection to our body and in relationship with other people that healing is possible.

Transference Dynamics

Psychodynamic psychotherapies
often advocate the use of the transference relationship to facilitate the repair of attachment wounds. Psychodynamic psychotherapists implicitly encourage their clients to re-experience their original relational dynamics within the transference relationship, believing that it is intrinsic to the therapeutic process.

Recognizing transference dynamics is an important aspect of the NARM approach as well. However, NARM’s nervous system perspective adds significant clinical interventions to working with transference. In early attachment dynamics, the baby’s nervous system is first organized in an implicit way, responding to and being regulated by the healthy nervous system of the mother. Because the process of attachment follows a nervous system–based developmental sequence, it is premature to focus on transference dynamics when self-regulation has been strongly impaired or disrupted by early trauma. The underlying deficits in nervous system organization must first be addressed. It is our sense that many of the problematic transference reactions that analysts and psychotherapists describe may be needlessly difficult, or even terrifying, because the therapist has not taken into account that the foundation of nervous system organization and regulation is not yet in place. A nervous system–based approach can avoid the re-traumatizing abreactions and regressions that are created when the transference is used as the primary vehicle for the therapy before clients have developed sufficient neural organization. Prematurely focusing on the transference relationship can quickly plunge a person into disorganization and distress. Tending to the basic organization of the nervous system is a fundamental element of working with transference processes that needs to be integrated into mainstream clinical interventions.

NARM works with the vulnerable preverbal and nonverbal elements of an individual who has suffered early shock or developmental/relational trauma. Individuals manage this kind of early trauma by developing the Connection Survival Style. These clients come to therapy struggling with the regressed elements of their personality and with ideas about themselves developed in response to early environmental failures. They need help to learn to self-regulate. Therapy for the Connection Survival Style can become re-traumatizing when it is not sufficiently titrated or resource oriented. On an identity level, using the transference relationship as the primary organizing principle may reinforce identifications with regressed aspects of self rather than release them. To regulate the nervous system, it is more effective to work consistently with the organized “adult” aspects of the self in order to integrate the disorganized, regressed “child” aspects. By supporting a dual awareness that is firmly anchored in the organizing here-and-now felt sense experience, we can explore adaptive survival styles that began in childhood while avoiding painful regression and abreaction and the trap of making the past more important than the present.

Somatic Psychotherapies

For the last seventy years, a cornerstone of somatic psychotherapy has been that our aliveness, vitality, and authenticity are accessed in connection to the body. The Western somatic psychotherapy tradition began with Wilhelm Reich, a medical doctor and psychoanalyst, as well as Freud’s pupil and later colleague. Reich was the first psychoanalyst to emphasize the importance of including the body in psychotherapy; his goal was to anchor in the body Freud’s belief in the biological foundation of the psyche. Reich believed that our biologically based emotions govern our psychological processes. He is best known for his insights on what he called character structures, which, he contended, are kept in place by defensive armoring, the muscular rigidity that is the protective response to living in emotionally repressive environments that are hostile to aliveness and the life force.

Building on Reich’s breakthrough understanding of the functional unity of body and mind, Alexander Lowen, MD, developed Bioenergetics, a somatic approach that included his own psychodynamically based character structure system. Lowen identified five basic developmental character structures, which consistent with the thinking of his time, were given names that emphasized their pathology: schizoid, oral, psychopathic, masochistic, and rigid. Lowen’s five character structures clearly tapped into a fundamental understanding of human nature and have influenced many subsequent body-based psychotherapies, including NARM.

Similar to Reich, Lowen believed that character structures were the outcome of thwarted drives. Wilhelm Reich and Alexander Lowen retained the pathologizing orientation consistent with the psychoanalytic principles of their time in that they emphasized the importance of working with defenses, repression, and resistance. Reich’s and Lowen’s therapies encouraged regression, abreaction, and catharsis. They both believed that the therapist’s job was to break through a patient’s character armor—the psychological and somatic defenses—in order to release the painful emotions held in the body.

Bioenergetics, for example, recognizes that deep emotion, conscious or unconscious, is held physically. It encourages clients to express their emotions through kicking, hitting, biting, and yelling, with the goal of discharging these powerful affects and in the hope that doing so will lead to greater emotional freedom and health. Reich’s and Lowen’s unique contribution was to recognize that defenses were held not only in the mind but also in the body’s nervous system, musculature, and organs. This significant breakthrough was ahead of its time and anticipated many current developments in the neurological and biological sciences.

The Reichian/Bioenergetic tenet of the functional unity of mind and body is consistent with NARM. NARM’s nervous system work, however, is much subtler, consistent with the advances in neuroscience research of the past two decades. We will see how using the two organizing principles of somatic mindfulness and mindfulness of adaptive survival styles can guide a gentle return to nervous system coherency with far less possibility of re-traumatization.

From a NARM perspective, intensely cathartic affective interventions can have the unintended effect of causing increased fragmentation and re-traumatization. Focusing on the pain, emptiness, or rage caused by early loss, neglect, or trauma does not in itself lead to healing. The orientation in the NARM approach is to use mindful awareness to help the client tolerate strong emotion, neither acting it out against the environment nor directing it against the self. Rather than being discharged through catharsis, powerful emotional and energetic states are contained so that they can be integrated and transformed into an increased capacity for connection. Mindfully staying present to and containing intense affect increases nervous system resiliency and supports the development of emotional depth.

Somatic Experiencing®

Somatic Experiencing® (SE) was originally developed by Peter Levine, PhD, and elaborated upon by the senior faculty of the Somatic Experiencing Trauma Institute, which includes co-author Laurence Heller. It is an effective short-term, bottom-up approach to therapy that supports nervous system re-regulation in the aftermath of shock trauma. SE is a step-by-step approach designed to treat shock trauma and the resulting nervous system dysregulation. It is a progressive and gentle approach that supports the biological completion and discharge of the intense survival energies of the body’s fight-flight responses.
Traditionally, SE does not focus on attachment, emotional, or relational issues as part of its therapeutic scope. NARM adds to SE by providing additional tools to address developmental, attachment, relational, affective, and transferential issues.

Gestalt Therapy

Gestalt therapy is an existential, phenomenological approach developed by Fritz Perls, MD, who early in his career was a psychoanalyst but later strongly rejected psychoanalysis. Gestalt’s phenomenological orientation involves paying attention to what the client is experiencing in the moment. From the NARM perspective, this shift represents a significant therapeutic step forward, because it addresses the client’s direct experience and moves the emphasis away from the endless exploration of personal history. Incorporating the role of the body and the importance of emotions, as Gestalt did, was a movement forward from psychodynamic therapies that ignore the present moment and the body. Both Bioenergetics and Gestalt encourage catharsis and emotional release. It is our experience that, for many clients, catharsis is not helpful and can even impair the capacity to self-regulate. The more traumatized and disorganized a person’s nervous system, the more likely catharsis can be re-traumatizing.

Cognitive Therapy

Cognitive therapy focuses on identifying cognitive distortions and their negative impact in our lives. This is an important contribution and brings the focus of the therapy into the here and now, emphasizing a person’s agency in his or her life difficulties. However, when dealing with developmental trauma, attachment difficulties, and early shock, the new understanding from the neurosciences supports the importance of working with affect regulation over cognition. Working with affect regulation and the nervous system is an essential element of the NARM approach.

Cognitive therapy introduced an important version of mindfulness to clinical psychological practice by helping clients examine their thinking and teaching them to interrupt and be mindful of their negative thought patterns. However, cognitive therapy does not address the nervous system imbalances that drive cognitive distortions; particularly when working with early trauma cognitive therapy is only minimally effective. In the case of the earliest Connection Survival Style, for example, focusing on changing distorted cognitions is particularly difficult because with early trauma, the cortex is not yet fully developed, and it is mostly the underlying bottom-up nervous system and affective imbalances that drive the cognitive distortions.

NARM presents a broader clinical application of mindfulness than is found in cognitive therapy by separating the story related to the distress states from the physiological distress itself. As the nervous system becomes more regulated, many cognitive distortions drop away. Elements of cognitive therapy are useful in working with the top-down aspects of the distress cycle, but particularly when working with someone who has experienced early trauma, it is essential to work with the distress cycle both top-down and bottom-up.

Affective Neuroscience

Significant developments in the field of neuroscience in the last twenty years have established and documented the biological foundation and psychological importance of affect regulation and interpersonal and social connection. Important developments in affective neuroscience include Stephen Porges, PhD’s research on the polyvagal system and his focus on the role of the Social Engagement System (SES); Daniel Siegel, MD’s interpersonal neurobiology, which clarifies the role of the neural substrate of relationship; and Allan Schore, PhD’s regulation theory, which documents the critical function of the right orbitofrontal cortex in supporting resonant contact and the repair of attachment wounds. These findings, as well as the research of other major neuroscientists, provide a scientific basis for the clinical approach that has been developing in NARM since the 1970s.

Esoteric Approaches

The limitation of what we take to be our personal identity is addressed in many esoteric traditions and has been popularized by well-known authors such as Eckhart Tolle and Ken Wilber. Psychodynamic orientations work to solidify the sense of identity and strengthen the ego, whereas esoteric orientations hold that Ego is an illusion that separates us from Being and keeps us from experiencing the spaciousness, fluidity, and fullness of our essential nature. Both perspectives are important. Esoteric approaches address the limitations of what they call Ego but generally do not incorporate the clinical awareness of the importance of attachment and developmental trauma in the creation of our sense of self. In addition, esoteric approaches do not address the primary role of nervous system dysregulation in the formation of the fixed identifications that come to be confused with identity.

NARM integrates both psychological and esoteric traditions and adds a biologically based approach that at times helps to solidify a person’s sense of identity and at other times supports the exploration of the fluid nature of identity. The NARM approach holds that the most immediate access to spiritual dimensions is The meditation technique of Vipassana is one important tool in the mindfulness process that can lead to the awareness and direct experience of the fluid nature of the Self. Because it is a powerful tool, however, it can potentially opens meditators to painful or overwhelming affective states that they are not equipped to process. We have worked with many individuals who during meditation retreats became anxious and overwhelmed by their emotions. Any system of self-exploration that does not take into consideration trauma and attachment issues and the resulting disrupted functioning of the nervous system creates the danger of dysregulating and re-traumatizing its practitioners.

One of Eckhart Tolle’s core principles is that nothing that happened in the past can keep us from being fully in the present moment. Although theoretically true, this orientation can be hurtful to those who have experienced trauma and suffer from significant nervous system disorganization. Traumatized individuals, which includes most of us to differing degrees, need both top-down and bottom-up approaches that address nervous system imbalances as well as issues of identity. Many people recognize the “power of now,” as Tolle calls it, but because of their nervous system dysregulation they are unable to remain in the present moment. Falling short of this ideal becomes another reason for individuals with trauma to feel bad about themselves.

A FUNDAMENTAL SHIFT

NARM utilizes elements of all the approaches mentioned above in a system that introduces a significant and fundamental shift in how these theoretical elements are applied. NARM holds psychodynamic, nervous system–based, and Eastern healing traditions as equally important and complementary. Building on and moving beyond the approaches mentioned above, NARM is a unified systemic approach that works with both developmental and shock trauma.

A Unified Systemic Model

Building on and adding to psychotherapeutic, meditative, and personal growth traditions, NARM offers an understanding and techniques that use connection to the parts of self that are organized, coherent, and functional to support new patterns in the nervous system. NARM is resource oriented, non-regressive, and non-cathartic. It works in the present moment with the felt sense using somatic mindfulness to help regulate the nervous system in order to support the increasing capacity for connection and aliveness. In this approach we see that it is in the connection to ourselves, to our body, and in relationship that we find healing regulation.

The NARM approach to growth and therapy is an antidote to deterministic approaches and maintains that the past does not determine the present. It is the persistence of adaptive survival styles along with the related nervous system disorganization and distortions of identity that negatively affect our present experience. Understanding adaptive survival styles provides practical tools and techniques to address these distortions of identity and nervous system dysregulation. Being present and regulated in our bodies helps us become aware of and disidentify from the many inaccurate ideas and judgments that we have about ourselves, other people, and the world.
 

Ant22

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A common metaphor used to explain the fight-flight-freeze is to compare the sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system to the gas pedal of a car and the parasympathetic branch to i the brakes. In trauma the sympathetic branch is fully engaged (that is, our foot is pressing the gas pedal to the floor) to mobilize massive amounts of fight-flight survival energy. At the same time, the parasympathetic branch is applying the brakes in an attempt to modulate the dangerously highly sympathetic arousal. In essence, both the gas pedal and the brakes are simultaneously pressed to the floorboard. The result is high to us in both branches of the autonomic nervous system: the engine is turning at higher speed but the brakes are fully engaged, leaving the car at a standstill. This standstill involving high tonus in both branches of the autonomic nervous system is a particular type of the freeze response called tonic immobility. The state of tonic immobility should not be confused with a collapse response, which is a type of freeze response in which the parasympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system is dominant.

(...)

In the presence of safety, all animals, including humans, return to what is called the exploratory-orienting response. Curiosity is is the non-traumatized body’s natural movement outward as it is motivated to desire to explore its surroundings when there is no threat or sense of threat. To see the exploratory-orienting response in action, simply observe a healthy toddler, puppy or kitten. The world is their oyster: they are curious about everything, and their exploration is joyful and full of discovery.This state of open curiosity is the normal non-traumatized state. It becomes available again when a person completes the biological sequence of the defensive orienting response.
The above excerpts from the HDT book remind me of this quote from the recent session:

Laura said:
(Pierre) Yes; beliefs by definition ARE limiting. If you don't believe this, then you believe that. So, I guess unlimited beliefs is sort of a transcending of the very notion of belief. It's going beyond beliefs.

A: Become like little children...

Q: (Artemis) Inquisitive, but without bias or beliefs.

(L) And adventurous, open to experience, and not formed up with any beliefs. And one hopes that it's a little child that has not been developmentally traumatized! [laughter]

(Chu) I think it comes down to what the books say, really, which is that if you're in the present, you stop having the wrong beliefs. Instead of living in the past, you're in a state where you're curious again. So, it is a positive emotion in the end, but it's not the positive emotions as we normally understand them with all the wishful thinking that goes along with them.

(Andromeda) Right.

(Chu) It's like let's live life as an experiment, and...

(L) Like, "This is interesting to see what happens next..."


(Andromeda) But you still have the ability to feel negative emotions as a response to something that happens. Which would be proper.

(Pierre) A lot of PK events or paranormal events involve children. And children, compared to adults, have less of those limiting beliefs. Therefore, they can connect and experience a wider range of events.

(Artemis) So basically, neurofeedback plus reading will help people increase their receivership capability...

(L) If they apply what they read...

(Artemis) ...will help them become conduits for positive forces in the universe.

A: Yes

Q: (L) Well, I was just really pretty amazed by my little computer card game. The funny thing was that I was playing around with it. If I TRIED to control it, it blocked it.

(Pierre) So what was your state of mind?

(L) Just open and watching, like, "Well, how many is it going to do?"

(Pierre) But there was an interest.

(L) There was attentiveness, interest, curiosity, and just...

(Chu) Like a child.

(Pierre) Did you want more black cards?

(L) I wanted more black ones, yes.

(Pierre) So there was an intention. But it wasn't forceful.

(L) No. It was just, "I like black ones! How many are there going to be?? How many?"


(Joe) That's a good thing to use because you've no way of deciding how it's going to happen. You don't know how the computer picks it. But in other areas, you think you know how something should actually happen, and you try to influence it directly like, "It's going to happen like THIS..." But the process inside the computer, it just happens. So, you're just left with the manifestation of a thing flipping one way or another or being one color or another. It's easier to do it with things like that than it is with things where you know how they work or how they should happen.

(Andromeda) Or you have a belief about how it SHOULD be...

(L) That's where so many people get blocked. They decide how something should be.

(Pierre) It's false beliefs. A lot of people consider what the computer generates to be random.

(L) I think computers are very sensitive to psychic and mental energy.

This relates to what Carl said in his post too:

Carl said:
So I guess to simplify it, you can say developmental trauma is like a well designed perfect program (instilled by 4D rulers?) to hamper the potential of a person to make an impact upon the world. But that this program is also all part of the school and in and of itself provides a means to growth.

Yes, maybe without it, we would probably have never searched for deeper answers. But too much of it seems to constrict growth as well.
It does seem like designing a body vehicle that requires certain developmental needs to be fulfilled in order to function properly and putting that vehicle in an environment that makes those needs almost impossible to be met is how the 4D controllers keep us blind on what we are really capable of.

As mentioned in the Samenow thread, the HDT book lacks scientific research and data but it certainly is very relatable. If I was to describe the impact of this book on me I'd say it's like Samenow on steroids.

Just the other day I caught myself on a manifestation of the expansion - contraction dynamics. After a successful and effective period of what felt like upward movement I hit a brick wall at the speed of light. Before reading the book I'd just fall into despair that it's all useless and I'll never get there. But the realisation that contraction is a natural step in the process helped me snap out of it. I literally thought to myself: "oh, so this is what that contraction feels like" - as I was looking at my feet and wiggling my toes in my shoes trying to ground myself and analysing the current situation that certainly didn't deserve such a massively emotional response. I think the realisation that I was re-living the past rather than experiencing the present was what helped in that specific scenario. There are plenty of other books that talk about that too - but none of them brought me to a stage where I could put that knowledge into practice so effectively.

And for the first time I could experience negative feelings - but not identify with them. A point I had thought I'd never reach.

And I'm not even a hardcore case of the Connection type. There are aspects of that style that don't apply to me. I've always been quite sociable for example, but I certainly never truly felt a part of any group or friendship although I can’t say I struggled to build those connections. Yet I can very much relate to the feeling of disconnection from self and others, the need for dissociation and looking in from the outside - a lot.
 

Pashalis

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Ant22 said:
[...]Just the other day I caught myself on a manifestation of the expansion - contraction dynamics. After a successful and effective period of what felt like upward movement I hit a brick wall at the speed of light. Before reading the book I'd just fall into despair that it's all useless and I'll never get there. But the realisation that contraction is a natural step in the process helped me snap out of it. I literally thought to myself: "oh, so this is what that contraction feels like" - as I was looking at my feet and wiggling my toes in my shoes trying to ground myself and analysing the current situation that certainly didn't deserve such a massively emotional response. I think the realisation that I was re-living the past rather than experiencing the present was what helped in that specific scenario. There are plenty of other books that talk about that too - but none of them brought me to a stage where I could put that knowledge into practice so effectively.

And for the first time I could experience negative feelings - but not identify with them. A point I had thought I'd never reach.
[...]
That's sounds pretty positive! Maybe what you needed to finally make such a connection and notice those things, were the concrete descriptions they provide in the HDT book, that make it much easier to identify a pattern and correct it in the present. The ability to not get identified with the reactions and emotions, while at the same time not judging them, is indeed a important milestone you reached there, that probably
will come in very handy in future situations of that kind. Now you have learned something new and I think there will be more realizations like that in the future. By trying to remember your insight there everytime something pups up again, you have a tool in hand now on which to orient yourself. Could be that what is described in the HDT book helped you to know more precisely what to look out for and how to not identify with it and be above it.
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

Keyhole said:
I am slightly confused now though, because after reading Samenow I was left with the impression that searching for the root cause of the issues could very well just act as buffer against changing the behaviours. Like saying "hey, until I understand the root cause of my issues, you will just have to deal with my behaviour for now". Not that I actually say that out loud, or even think that way, but I am concerned that through investing too much effort into understanding my past (possible) traumas in more depth, that the focus will be taken away from challenging my thinking patterns and controlling my behaviour - if that makes any sense at all.
Just wanted to come back to this bit. By the end of the book, the authors will have cleared this up for you. The way they do therapy is very clever. So when clients bring up past traumas, the point isn't so much to dig into those traumas as it is to work with the body and beliefs in the present moment. So they track the sensations and emotions that come up as the client talks about past trauma, and get the clients to participate in this tracking. By observing the physical signs they're displaying (in the eyes, face, body tension, etc.) and with open, gentle questioning, the therapist can guide the client into becoming aware of their current sensations. It's basically a method of inducing self-observation - an awareness of the body in the present without "regressing" into the past and identifying with it. And by bringing up emotions and sensations bit by bit, the client learns to "contain" those feelings, learning that they're not actually debilitating as they become more used to being present in their bodies and basically putting their nervous system in order. And being able to "connect" to oneself facilitates connection to others. Basically, it's a way to stop living in the past and actually be present. And that opens up the sense of "aliveness" that is lacking when one is stuck in the past (literally, their bodies are just repeating past patterns that aren't appropriate in current conditions).
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

Approaching Infinity said:
Keyhole said:
I am slightly confused now though, because after reading Samenow I was left with the impression that searching for the root cause of the issues could very well just act as buffer against changing the behaviours. Like saying "hey, until I understand the root cause of my issues, you will just have to deal with my behaviour for now". Not that I actually say that out loud, or even think that way, but I am concerned that through investing too much effort into understanding my past (possible) traumas in more depth, that the focus will be taken away from challenging my thinking patterns and controlling my behaviour - if that makes any sense at all.
Just wanted to come back to this bit. By the end of the book, the authors will have cleared this up for you. The way they do therapy is very clever. So when clients bring up past traumas, the point isn't so much to dig into those traumas as it is to work with the body and beliefs in the present moment. So they track the sensations and emotions that come up as the client talks about past trauma, and get the clients to participate in this tracking. By observing the physical signs they're displaying (in the eyes, face, body tension, etc.) and with open, gentle questioning, the therapist can guide the client into becoming aware of their current sensations. It's basically a method of inducing self-observation - an awareness of the body in the present without "regressing" into the past and identifying with it. And by bringing up emotions and sensations bit by bit, the client learns to "contain" those feelings, learning that they're not actually debilitating as they become more used to being present in their bodies and basically putting their nervous system in order. And being able to "connect" to oneself facilitates connection to others. Basically, it's a way to stop living in the past and actually be present. And that opens up the sense of "aliveness" that is lacking when one is stuck in the past (literally, their bodies are just repeating past patterns that aren't appropriate in current conditions).
Thanks, Approaching Infinity. That really make sense to me. I thought Chapter 15 To Change a Criminal was like listening to Gurdjieff, Collingwood, John Peterson and the Cs (not to forget Laura and Ark) at the same time. In Chapter 15 Dr. Samuel Yochelson seemed to embody all those ideas in his therapeutic approach and it was kind of shocking to find that.

Also after viewing Watch NARM Session with Dr. Laurence Heller I can see that the Healing Developmental Trauma" by L. Heller and A. LaPierre ties into a similar strategy for bringing people into the present while touching on past trauma without '"regressing" into the past and identifying with it.'

It seems like all these books and the NeurOptimal project are blending tools together for a more comprehensible way to Work on ourselves and hopefully benefit others as well.
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

goyacobol said:
Approaching Infinity said:
Keyhole said:
I am slightly confused now though, because after reading Samenow I was left with the impression that searching for the root cause of the issues could very well just act as buffer against changing the behaviours. Like saying "hey, until I understand the root cause of my issues, you will just have to deal with my behaviour for now". Not that I actually say that out loud, or even think that way, but I am concerned that through investing too much effort into understanding my past (possible) traumas in more depth, that the focus will be taken away from challenging my thinking patterns and controlling my behaviour - if that makes any sense at all.
Just wanted to come back to this bit. By the end of the book, the authors will have cleared this up for you. The way they do therapy is very clever. So when clients bring up past traumas, the point isn't so much to dig into those traumas as it is to work with the body and beliefs in the present moment. So they track the sensations and emotions that come up as the client talks about past trauma, and get the clients to participate in this tracking. By observing the physical signs they're displaying (in the eyes, face, body tension, etc.) and with open, gentle questioning, the therapist can guide the client into becoming aware of their current sensations. It's basically a method of inducing self-observation - an awareness of the body in the present without "regressing" into the past and identifying with it. And by bringing up emotions and sensations bit by bit, the client learns to "contain" those feelings, learning that they're not actually debilitating as they become more used to being present in their bodies and basically putting their nervous system in order. And being able to "connect" to oneself facilitates connection to others. Basically, it's a way to stop living in the past and actually be present. And that opens up the sense of "aliveness" that is lacking when one is stuck in the past (literally, their bodies are just repeating past patterns that aren't appropriate in current conditions).
Thanks, Approaching Infinity. That really make sense to me. I thought Chapter 15 To Change a Criminal was like listening to Gurdjieff, Collingwood, John Peterson and the Cs (not to forget Laura) at the same time. In Chapter 15 Dr. Samuel Yochelson seemed to embody all those ideas in his therapeutic approach and it was kind of shocking to find that.

Also after viewing Watch NARM Session with Dr. Laurence Heller I can see that the Healing Developmental Trauma" by L. Heller and A. LaPierre ties into a similar strategy for bringing people into the present while touching on past trauma without '"regressing" into the past and identifying with it.'

It seems like all these books and the NeurOptimal project are blending tools together for a more comprehensible way to Work on ourselves and hopefully benefit others as well.
Yep, good observation. It wasn't clear, but my post was actually in reference to Heller/LaPierre's work. (Keyhole's original post in the Raine thread was contrasting Samenow to Heller.)
 

MarcusAurelius

Padawan Learner
Staying in the moment is so much easier said, or written, than done. As in the book, it is also a fundamental skill that my acting coach impresses on us.

Today my control/trust issue surfaced in an acting scene. About three minutes into the exercise, the other actor told me I looked worried. She was right ... at that very moment I was giving up on her understanding me, kind of saying to myself "she's not going to figure out what's going on in me". I guess I was beginning to look worried because it seemed like I wasn't going to get what I wanted from her in the scene.

My objective in the scene was to get her to console me. I was starting to get what I wanted!

When she said "you look worried", I pulled back and relaxed. I broke the emotional flow to the scene and let myself off the hook with the relationship that I started. I didn't want to go any deeper. In the flash of a moment, I got just a small taste of what I wanted and withdrew from the scene - I ran.

It's taken me about four hours of pondering to figure out what happened - namely why my acting coach stopped the scene to give me feedback. In two EE sessions this afternoon I focused on this situation and my acting coach's short feedback "my control issue surfaced, derailed the scene".

Sound simple? How do we catch ourselves in life to correct these missing life skills? I learned a valuable lesson today. I was really hurting as I was trying to figure out what was beneath, what I didn't see. Unfortunately, 99% of the people in my life probably have little appreciation for what I figured out about myself and how I intend to use it to stay engaged with others now when I notice myself pulling away. I guess rather than being disappointed I don't have an audience to share the learning, I just need to put it practice and look for some benefits of learning to ask for help and appreciating those who are there for me.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

Approaching Infinity said:
goyacobol said:
Approaching Infinity said:
Keyhole said:
I am slightly confused now though, because after reading Samenow I was left with the impression that searching for the root cause of the issues could very well just act as buffer against changing the behaviours. Like saying "hey, until I understand the root cause of my issues, you will just have to deal with my behaviour for now". Not that I actually say that out loud, or even think that way, but I am concerned that through investing too much effort into understanding my past (possible) traumas in more depth, that the focus will be taken away from challenging my thinking patterns and controlling my behaviour - if that makes any sense at all.
Just wanted to come back to this bit. By the end of the book, the authors will have cleared this up for you. The way they do therapy is very clever. So when clients bring up past traumas, the point isn't so much to dig into those traumas as it is to work with the body and beliefs in the present moment. So they track the sensations and emotions that come up as the client talks about past trauma, and get the clients to participate in this tracking. By observing the physical signs they're displaying (in the eyes, face, body tension, etc.) and with open, gentle questioning, the therapist can guide the client into becoming aware of their current sensations. It's basically a method of inducing self-observation - an awareness of the body in the present without "regressing" into the past and identifying with it. And by bringing up emotions and sensations bit by bit, the client learns to "contain" those feelings, learning that they're not actually debilitating as they become more used to being present in their bodies and basically putting their nervous system in order. And being able to "connect" to oneself facilitates connection to others. Basically, it's a way to stop living in the past and actually be present. And that opens up the sense of "aliveness" that is lacking when one is stuck in the past (literally, their bodies are just repeating past patterns that aren't appropriate in current conditions).
Thanks, Approaching Infinity. That really makes sense to me. I thought Chapter 15 To Change a Criminal was like listening to Gurdjieff, Collingwood, John Peterson and the Cs (not to forget Laura and Ark) at the same time. In Chapter 15 Dr. Samuel Yochelson seemed to embody all those ideas in his therapeutic approach and it was kind of shocking to find that.

Also after viewing Watch NARM Session with Dr. Laurence Heller I can see that the Healing Developmental Trauma" by L. Heller and A. LaPierre ties into a similar strategy for bringing people into the present while touching on past trauma without '"regressing" into the past and identifying with it.'

It seems like all these books and the NeurOptimal project are blending tools together for a more comprehensible way to Work on ourselves and hopefully benefit others as well.
Yep, good observation. It wasn't clear, but my post was actually in reference to Heller/LaPierre's work. (Keyhole's original post in the Raine thread was contrasting Samenow to Heller.)
Re-reading my post I realized I wasn't very clear that Chapter 15 To Change a Criminal was from Inside the Criminal Mind by Stanton Samenow. I think what strikes me is how all these different books and authors have a certain harmony or continuity of thought. And I really think Laura saw why they should be read and even read in a generally logical order. Sorry, the mixing was kind of sloppy on my part.
 

trytofly

Padawan Learner
I just caught up on this thread with delay.
Thank you for all your sharing and very interesting comments !
I am waiting to receive "Healing Developmental Trauma" in French. I look forward to reading it !

PERLOU said:
Thank you ARWENN AND LAURA
I finished DUOLINGO English but I only have 68% so I need to do the revisions to get 100% and/or take the course at the beginning...
Even if it's easier to understand English it's not perfect and I lack a lot of vocabulary, fortunately there is DEEPL...
To deepen the learning of English on Duolingo, I suggest you add a new course on the site once connected. Choose French and indicate that you speak English. This allows you to learn a lot more English vocabulary. Currently, I practice both regularly by revising what is needed.
From the comments I read, it does not seem possible to reach 100%.
 
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