How much of what the Cs say is 'symbolic'?

Altair

Ambassador
Ambassador
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Meager1 said:
Interesting thread!
I wonder if it was ever asked about the possibility of bases under the oceans?
Assuming the pressure wouldn't bother them, that would be the perfect place to hide a base.

Have you read Invisible Residents by Ivan T. Sanderson?
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
[quote author= Meager1]Interesting thread!
I wonder if it was ever asked about the possibility of bases under the oceans?
Assuming the pressure wouldn't bother them, that would be the perfect place to hide a base[/quote]

[quote author= July 31, 1999]Q: Is an underwater base being constructed in the Pacific in anticipation of something?
A: No need to construct that which already exists. [/quote]


Since we are also talking about 4STS infrastructure, this is probably the most 'insane' thing the C's ever mentioned in that regard :

[quote author= December 4, 1999 ]Q: Is this object that is possibly in orbit around the sun, is it a natural or artificial construction?
A: Latter.
Q Who constructed it?
A: Orion STS.
Q: What is it?
A: HQ.
Q: The Orion Headquarters?
A: For your star system.
Q: Okay, you said "maybe" to this being a "new object." When did it arrive, or when was it placed there?
A: You measure "time" linearly.
Q: Can we give it a "linear" definition, or does it come and go through some sort of portal in terms of time, in a cyclical way, or a variable and selective way?
A: Yes, but it arrived at that coordinate 26730 years ago, sort of.
Q: What is its orbit, or distance from the Sun?
A: 31,230,000 miles.
Q: How large is this object?
A: 1005.6 kilometers diameter.
Q: What is the general configuration or shape of it? (A) A sphere, a ball, a disc, a cylinder?
A: Partial sphere, hexagonal.
Q: (A) Is it in a circular orbit or an elliptical orbit?
A: Circular. Rotation is altered by guidance system, gravitationally powered.
Q: What is its angle to the plane of the ecliptic?
A: 21 degrees.
Q: Okay, you said that it is "headquarters," so that answers what it does. And, it did not arrive with Hale Bopp. Just off to the side, was there REALLY a Hale Bopp companion - this rumor just won't die!?
A: No.
Q: Now, what do these Orions DO in this object? I mean, isn't it a little warm so close to the sun? I know. That's a stupid question. Space is cold.
A: Yes, and study magnetism for answers.
Q: Do Orions LIVE in this object?
A: Close.
Q: Do they use it as a transfer portal?
A: Yes.
Q: So, it is a doorway, so to speak?
A: Doorway as are many.
Q: How many of these objects are in our solar system?
A: Two.
Q: Where is the other one?
A: Outside, on the fringe of the solar system.
Q: Is the government, or some faction or department, aware of this object?
A: Yes.
Q: Anything else you can tell us about this object?
A: No need. [/quote]

This session reminds me of the following video, Planet sided UFO sucking up sun energy? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceph2kpYEN4 (1:41m)
 

3DStudent

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Joe said:
3D Student said:
I've always thought 5D life review would be really "Heavenly" or etheral. Like I'm an angel-like being or orb of light surrounded in bright light pondering things. That it seems like an abduction experience,

That's an interesting thought 3D student. I wonder if the programming of mainstream religion around the 'after life' and 'heaven' might not be very useful to someone who anticipated lots of humans dying and ending up in "4D" and, with the expectation of just 'floating around with the angles', might not be much more easily manipulated. Those who, on the other hand, have an expectation of getting on with stuff just like before, might have a better chance of not being conned. Basically, the two different assumptions might be:

1) If after I die I wake up and things are a bit weird but I'm still 'here', then my job is to figure out what's going on and what I need to be doing

or

2) When I die I'm going to wake up in heaven with Jesus and the angles and float around preening my wings, playing a harp and eating ambrosia for eternity.

Seems to me number two is much better for hedging your bets!

Yeah, I think my religious upbringing has colored my thoughts of the afterlife. But I have thought about the first scenario. That when I die, whether I'm in 5D or 4D, and after the "post transformational trauma", first step is to "gain my bearings". "Ok I'm me and I'm still here." And then decide on a plan of action and just get on with things.

edit: added post transformational trauma reference.
 

axj

Dagobah Resident
I think one of the most important parts of the C's message is that the Wave will cause a sort of quantum jump to 4D for those who are ready. It seems like a pretty literal message, though there are some aspects of it that don't quite make sense.

I wrote about it in a different thread, but I think this applies here too:

There are sessions that place the Wave in the context of earth changes and potential comet impacts. However, it is not clear whether it is indeed the change to 4D that is supposed to happen then. It may just as well be a gradual unfolding of the Wave as it is right now.

Furthermore, if someone finishes their lessons in 3D they may be able to change to 4D at any time. But then there is really no need for an 'easier' shift to 4D. Why should there be an easier way? If you haven't finished your 3D lessons, you are not ready for 4D. And when you finish your 3D lessons, you will change to 4D anyway.

The Wave may help in working through 3D lessons, but it seems that the change to 4D happens whenever you or your colinear group is ready and not at a certain point in time when the Wave fully arrives.

I can see that for those who are close to graduating, there may be a spike of energy and lessons during a time of earth changes, which may make it easier for many to graduate quicker. Is that what the "collective change to 4D" part of the Wave refers to?
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
[quote author= 3d student]I've always thought 5D life review would be really "Heavenly" or etheral. Like I'm an angel-like being or orb of light surrounded in bright light pondering things. That it seems like an abduction experience,

[quote author= Joe]That's an interesting thought 3D student. I wonder if the programming of mainstream religion around the 'after life' and 'heaven' might not be very useful to someone who anticipated lots of humans dying and ending up in "4D" and, with the expectation of just 'floating around with the angles', might not be much more easily manipulated. Those who, on the other hand, have an expectation of getting on with stuff just like before, might have a better chance of not being conned. Basically, the two different assumptions might be:

1) If after I die I wake up and things are a bit weird but I'm still 'here', then my job is to figure out what's going on and what I need to be doing

or

2) When I die I'm going to wake up in heaven with Jesus and the angles and float around preening my wings, playing a harp and eating ambrosia for eternity.

Seems to me number two is much better for hedging your bets![/quote][/quote]

It's interesting, this thread somewhat delved in that: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,41435.0.html
 

Zar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Very great thread, dense in information. This makes me think of a different angle to this questions, what if the C's speak in symbols because we are the ones perceiving the world in symbols. Taken from this session

July 13, 2002
Q: (Perceval) So their genetics...it's a function of genetics... (A) I would ask if there is any other say nation or tribe of similar make-up? (S) Yeah, maybe there's a tribe in every section of the world, or something.

A: There is a "spectrum" as Mouravieff suggests, however the Zulu compose a sort of "drone" tone.

Q: (S) So is this something they do deliberately or is it something unconscious?

A: It is a function of the 4th density energies they "represent."

Q: (A) Okay, so it is a drone tone. That is the main tone which is foundational to the harmonics. You build the music on this infrastructure, so to say. (L) There's the drone, there's the bass, there's the melody. (Brainwave) Listen to his voice, what does his voice sound like to you? I don't know...(Perceval) Yeah, there is a resonance. (Brainwave) Yeah, in his voice. (Perceval) They said a spectrum as in Mouravieff, the spectrum of the genetics able to carry light or to act as a light for transition. I'm not really sure on how that...(L) I think they're talking about a soul tone. (Brainwave) That singing that they do, that special kind of singing is it symbolic of that drone tone.

A: Indeed, as is all of reality symbolic of things at other levels and "depths" of being.

Q: (Brainwave) Okay, think of the Lion King and that singing and what it induces and when you hear that humming. (A) I would ask if there is anything we should pay specific attention to important with these guys, if there is some caution?

A: Be sincere and direct and see what transpires.

More so than that the C's have said(weather it's symbolic i'm not sure) that mathematics is the language of the universe here https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,35836.msg517589.html#msg517589 so maybe they speak the language we operate at which is a language of symbols/concepts of deeper levels of being, and to promote learning since this is one big school and the only thing we can do is learn?
 

Kika

Padawan Learner
How much of what the Cs say is "symbolic"?

Counter question:
How much of what we perceive is "really"?

Of course, to choose well-known concepts (words), and then place them in a context that provokes curiosity. Curiosity creates questions. The questions require answers. Sometimes the answer is a hypothesis.
Why not make a hypothesis?
Every current rules and laws of "real world", once before they were hypotheses, until enough people agreed and accepted them for "real".
I think that hypotheses are the basis for a change of perception.
If it were not so, the Earth would still be flat plates. :)

By changing the perceptions, we see new things, called them, and "reality" is described in a new way.
Once the disease was the work of demons, then became a result of viruses and bacteria, and today it is closer to the description of the blocked energy (or energy of another quality), which creates conditions for the development of the parasite lives (of any kind).
Today we know the cells, molecules, atoms, particles, quanta, but Cs persistently repeated: wave, cycle, wave....
Does not that deserve a few hypotheses? :)

I wonder if anyone else finds it difficult to reconcile the idea of a 4D reality to which we might 'graduate' and which, if taken literally, implies a rather stupendous and radical change and leap forward in our abilities, with the fact that most people here are still struggling to handle some of the most basic and mundane aspects of 3D life, like getting a handle on emotions, thinking, actions, relationships, responsibility etc.

Roughly how I see the development of people:

1. First, we should learn to: manage / operate and maintain our body (physical form) and communicate with each other on friendly and constructive manner (not physical aggression). Use our limbs, physical senses (sight, hearing, smell, feel) speech, which benefits the body and what does not (food, clothing, accommodation / environment ...)

2. Now we have received information that there are emotions (taking the name of Jesus as a symbol of the phenomenon (at least in the Western world), and the work of Gurdijeffa as instructions for home use), so you had to learn: to recognize / handle our emotions and communicate with others in an acceptable / constructive way. Ego consider emotional body / sense and can not agree with the instructions that the Ego should ignore / silence / shut down, I think that ego must learn: to use / handle / apply.

3. Now we are at the stage where we have learned that in addition to our physical and emotional effects, there is also energy (all use the word energy, so I will). So we need to learn to recognize / handle with our energy and use it to communicate with each other in an acceptable / constructive way.

Nothing in this world is fixed, so the 3D is not 3 but more than 3.00000 … to 3.9999999 …
Each of us is in a position in this interval and learns what it takes to reach 4.0000 …

I suppose I might just be assuming here than any true 'evolution' of a human being would happen, to a large extent, on a continuum. That is to say, whatever 'issues' you have at any purported point of 'transition' you would still have afterwards, likewise with your awareness/understanding. So I'm sort of leaving out the idea of some kind of external force unilaterally 'upgrading' or 'enlightening' any human being beyond what they have already achieved (at one level or another) by their own efforts. That doesn't mean such a thing could not happen, but I'd be wary of relying on it to the point of neglecting what we can be more sure of i.e. conscious, personal efforts are what get results.

Speaking of energy, let's start from the beginning and what I first learned about energy was the definition: "Energy is the ability to: a form (body), system, or the mass of the substance, to do some work."

Apparently work is meant by itself.

Best regards to all.
 

Eol

Jedi
bjorn said:
This session reminds me of the following video, Planet sided UFO sucking up sun energy? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceph2kpYEN4 (1:41m)

It's seems to me that it's just a nomal solar mass ejection. The shadow does not remains spherical and is acting in concert with the filaments which are quiet similares as birkeland currents. The whole vanish in the same time with the burst. Anyway, if it was a really UFO, his size would be tremendous.
 

Joe

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FOTCM Member
Shared Joy said:
Hi Joe,
several of us already have a glimpse of what an altered perception of our reality could be like - it could be extremely weird, frightening, beautiful, or simply indescribable, as the amount of information that comes all of a sudden could be overwhelming. Bleed-through of other realities could be even more shocking.

What I have noticed is that it very much depends on the individual development and the state of mind he/she is in at that time, as these aspects somehow enable us to cope with the pressure of the unknown.

The less your little I's and your personality rule over your mind-soul-body complex, the easier to accept the unexpected, the easier to go with the "flow". The more life experience you gathered in various domains, moved by a strong determination to know what is the truth, the more openness to see the wonders of this Creation, the more versatility and flexibility in thoughts and action, the stronger the possibility that you will enjoy the ride. In one word - dare to live and be honest.

Allow me to give an example of such a revelation which happen to Arthur Koestler during WW2, when he was incarcerated in Spain, on the accusation of being a spy, and facing the high probability of being executed anytime soon.

Quote from his book The Invisible Writing:

"
I was standing at the recessed window of cell No. 40 and with a piece of iron-spring that I had extracted from the wire mattress, was scratching mathematical formulae on the wall. Mathematics, in particular analytical geometry, had been the favorite hobby of my youth, neglected later on for many years. I was trying to remember how to derive the formula of the hyperbola, and was stumped; then I tried the ellipse and parabola, and to my delight succeeded. Next I went on to recall Euclid's proof that the number of primes is infinite...
Since I had become acquainted with Euclid's proof at school, it had always filled me with a deep satisfaction that was aesthetic rather than intellectual. Now, as I recalled the method and scratched the symbols on the wall, I felt the same enchantment.

And then, for the first time, I suddenly understood the reason for this enchantment: the scribbled symbols on the wall represented one of the rare cases where a meaningful and comprehensive statement about the infinite is arrived at by precise and finite means. The infinite is a mystical mass shrouded in a haze; and yet it was possible to gain some knowledge of it without losing oneself in treacly ambiguities.

The significance of this swept over me like a wave. The wave had originated in an articulate verbal insight; but this evaporated at once, leaving in its wake only a wordless essence, a fragrance of eternity, a quiver of the arrow in the blue. I must have stood there for some minutes, entranced, with a wordless awareness that "this is perfect---perfect"; until I noticed some slight mental discomfort nagging at the back of my mind---some trivial circumstance that marred the perfection of the moment.

Then I remembered the nature of that irrelevant annoyance: I was, of course, in prison and might be shot. But this was immediately answered by a feeling whose verbal translation would be: "So what? is that all? have you got nothing more serious to worry about?"---an answer so spontaneous, fresh and amused as if the intruding annoyance had been the loss of a collar-stud. Then I was floating on my back in a river of peace, under bridges of silence. It came from nowhere and flowed nowhere. Then there was no river and no I. The I had ceased to exist.

When I say "the I had ceased to exist," I refer to a concrete experience that is verbally as incommunicable as the feeling aroused by a piano concerto, yet just as real---only much more real. In fact, its primary mark is the sensation that this state is more real than any other one has experienced before---that for the first time the veil has fallen and one is in touch with "real reality," the hidden order of things, the X-ray texture of the world, normally obscured by layers of irrelevancy.

What distinguishes this type of experience from the emotional entrancements of music, landscapes or love is that the former has a definitely intellectual, or rather noumenal, content. It is meaningful, though not in verbal terms. Verbal transcriptions that come nearest to it are: the unity and interlocking of everything that exists, an interdependence like that of gravitational fields or communicating vessels. The "I" ceases to exist because it has, by a kind of mental osmosis, established communication with, and been dissolved in, the universal pool. It is the process of dissolution and limitless expansion which is sensed as the "oceanic feeling," as the draining of all tension, the absolute catharsis, the peace that passeth all understanding.

The coming-back to the lower order of reality I found to be gradual, like waking up from anaesthesia. There was the equation of the parabola scratched on the dirty wall, the iron bed and the iron table and the strip of blue Andalusian sky. But there was no unpleasant hangover as from other modes of intoxication. On the contrary: there remained a sustained and invigorating, serene and fear-dispelling after-effect that lasted for hours and days. It was as if a massive dose of vitamins had been injected into the veins. Or, to change the metaphor, I resumed my travels through my cell like an old car with its batteries freshly recharged.

Whether the experience had lasted for a few minutes or an hour, I never knew. In the beginning it occurred two or even three times a week, then the intervals became longer. It could never be voluntarily induced. After my liberation it recurred at even longer intervals, perhaps once or twice in a year. But by that time the groundwork for a change or personality was completed. I shall henceforth refer to these experiences as "the hours by the window."

Well, this came to my mind, after reading your post.

Just wanted to say I appreciate your post Shared Joy and the excerpt from Koestler.
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
[quote author= Eo]It's seems to me that it's just a nomal solar mass ejection.[/quote]

I have seen normal solar mass ejections. But not the kind that forms a 'thread' to a ball away from the sun and than blasts away. Couldn't find anything comparable on youtube. So I thought it might be something else. But if this is normal, I might have missed a lot.
 

Mike

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
theoria said:
It could be that the transition/graduation/ascension has to do with our gradual discovering of something which we had never noticed before, but which has always been right under our nose. Only those who care to look will see it. Or perhaps there really will be some momentous event that catalyzes a shift in perception for those who are ready. I'm really not sure.

Yas said:
So, as you say, what matter is what we can see, and what we can see is determined by many factors, but the one we are in control of is our choices... we can choose to gather information and apply that information to our lives, and we can also choose to make the effort to learn from this life in these conditions (3D, Earth, etc...). By doing this, we might start seeing more and more, and maybe we will be able to see new aspects of reality one day.

These two excerpts made me think of one of my favorite quotes - from the book ‘A River Runs Through It’

“All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes you see something you weren't noticing which makes you see something that isn't even visible.”

Perhaps it is like making the choice to keep up the search, to experiment in a new way of being and living, to have the search light on (making the effort to search/see reality and the support of those making the main push to seek the truth of existence), and eventually it shines on the path forward to a different reality and different future that wasn’t even visible the moment before. Like spotting and reading the symbols and the signs of the times to light the way ahead.
 

luc

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Joe said:
Shared Joy said:
Well, this came to my mind, after reading your post.

Just wanted to say I appreciate your post Shared Joy and the excerpt from Koestler.

Yes, thanks Shared Joy, that was a fascinating read.

When I say "the I had ceased to exist," I refer to a concrete experience that is verbally as incommunicable as the feeling aroused by a piano concerto, yet just as real---only much more real. In fact, its primary mark is the sensation that this state is more real than any other one has experienced before---that for the first time the veil has fallen and one is in touch with "real reality," the hidden order of things, the X-ray texture of the world, normally obscured by layers of irrelevancy.


This sounds like an awakening of the higher emotional center. I find the idea fascinating to use our feelings to "see" - this can be extremely tricky, but sometimes I think we can have deep insights by describing our feelings and the mental associations with those feelings -- like when we start a sentence with "it feels like...", "it feels as if" etc.

Thanks for sharing!
 

axj

Dagobah Resident
bjorn said:
[quote author= Eo]It's seems to me that it's just a nomal solar mass ejection.

I have seen normal solar mass ejections. But not the kind that forms a 'thread' to a ball away from the sun and than blasts away. Couldn't find anything comparable on youtube. So I thought it might be something else. But if this is normal, I might have missed a lot.
[/quote]

I think it's pretty well explained here:

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-giant-black-sphere-hovering-near-the-sun.t469/

There are also pictures of similar cavities in the sun's eruptions.
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
[quote author= axj]I think it's pretty well explained here:

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-giant-black-sphere-hovering-near-the-sun.t469/

There are also pictures of similar cavities in the sun's eruptions.[/quote]

I understand now, that looks similar.
 

ge0m0

Jedi
Shared Joy said:
" And then, for the first time, I suddenly understood the reason for this enchantment: the scribbled symbols on the wall represented one of the rare cases where a meaningful and comprehensive statement about the infinite is arrived at by precise and finite means. The infinite is a mystical mass shrouded in a haze; and yet it was possible to gain some knowledge of it without losing oneself in treacly ambiguities.

I have initiated a project with a Himalayan yogi and one of his closest US disciples. It is hard to put into words, for reasons that the above quote mentions. Symbols are the best way I can think of to describe what I am intuitively experiencing. The gist: it's all symbolic, and the symbols "collapse" by way of a master-symbol or key. What we see in 3D are patterns in the material world, and those patterns can be traced back to such a master-symbol. Such a master-symbol would not be the so-called first-cause, as in my view there can be no such thing. Understanding how the master-symbol propagates and forms fractals of itself, becoming the objective world we see, is something that I have been contemplating for nearly 20 years. It's becoming more and more clear, and I want the help of this particular yogi because of his mastery of not only ancient wisdom but also current affairs and technology. I mentioned such a project on Joe's thread about interviews. I don't think it will be a Sott Radio interview, but I do anticipate sharing and networking here as the project develops.

Here are a few teasers (teasers only because I can't really nail them down, so they're continually teasing me).

context-content ==> sets
1=0=infinity ==> these are all equivalent wholes
change in perspective/change in time (dP/dT) ==> collapsing time allows for infinite perspective - 7D
subject-object ==> this is just another way of saying context-content, or self-other (per the late David Hawkins, "Enlightenment is context devoid of content.")
dimensionless extension ==> context of the Big-Bang, as there was the potential for extension immediately prior to the Big-Bang, though the physics tells us the universe was compressed into a single point of infinite density, and a point is a dimensionless entity, so "something" without any dimensions (conditions?) "expanded"...hmmm, symbolic?

Frankly, I find these (and others, but these form a good core) to be necessary lessons. I imagine that advanced yogis (or other spiritual adepts called by any name you like) has mastered, to some degree, these concepts. By doing so they are able to operate in this 3D realm in ways that elude the masses, producing so-called miracles, which are not really miracles but more symbols provided for our edification. I get the same sense from the symbolism of the Cs. Rather than taking things literally (i.e. the 99.9% who would not "get it"), I tend more to pattern-recognition, dismissing the parts (aka ALL objects) and looking for a larger and larger whole (expanding context, whereby content is transcended and becomes part of a larger whole, no longer content but part of a new, expanded context). The more I do this, the more such core lessons are seen everywhere - language, mathematics, myth, biology, physics, etc., etc.
 
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