How much of what the Cs say is 'symbolic'?

Palinurus

The Living Force
I do anticipate sharing and networking here as the project develops.

Sounds like a really interesting project, ge0m0. Please do inform us of its progress whenever applicable. :cool2:

For me, the most symbolic communication from 6D was the 'almanac' of genuine crop-circles. Pictures can say more than a thousand words -- as the saying goes.

I've followed their development on and off over the years and I'm surprised these weren't mentioned yet in this ongoing discussion. I specifically remember that some of the crop-circle images --although being 2-dimensional in their lay-out-- could from a specific vantage point or angle of observation suddenly appear as being 3-dimensional representations -- underlining the importance of one's stance (comprised of knowledge and being) for one's ability to see and understand anything (receivership capacity and/or capability). However, I would be hard pressed to give examples thereof out-of-hand.

I seem to remember that the C's themselves have said somewhere that crop-circles consist of, or contain, a complete language of a highly symbolic nature to disclose cosmic 'secrets' or global lessons for humanity at large. I still think it's a pity that AFAIK no systematic analysis of all genuine crop-circles has been undertaken to decipher their true content and possible meanings. Such an endeavor would've been of great importance and a true help in understanding the more cryptic session statements of a possibly similar symbolic nature, OSIT (like cross pollination or something).

I've very much enjoyed reading this thread so far. :)
 

Shared Joy

Jedi Council Member
luc said:
Joe said:
Shared Joy said:
Well, this came to my mind, after reading your post.

Just wanted to say I appreciate your post Shared Joy and the excerpt from Koestler.

Yes, thanks Shared Joy, that was a fascinating read.

When I say "the I had ceased to exist," I refer to a concrete experience that is verbally as incommunicable as the feeling aroused by a piano concerto, yet just as real---only much more real. In fact, its primary mark is the sensation that this state is more real than any other one has experienced before---that for the first time the veil has fallen and one is in touch with "real reality," the hidden order of things, the X-ray texture of the world, normally obscured by layers of irrelevancy.


This sounds like an awakening of the higher emotional center. I find the idea fascinating to use our feelings to "see" - this can be extremely tricky, but sometimes I think we can have deep insights by describing our feelings and the mental associations with those feelings -- like when we start a sentence with "it feels like...", "it feels as if" etc.

Thanks for sharing!


Hi Joe. ge0m0 and Luc,
thank you for your response. I just want to add here a personal experience about how feelings enable us to see the unseen.

A long time ago, when I was a beginner in driving a car, I would use this little trick to calm down my anxiety: I would thank for safe return home before each departure.

One day my car broke down in a busy and wide intersection. It went mute and irresponsive in no time, though I tried everything I know to restart it. To further my helplessness, I had no phone, not a single dime to make a telephone call, plus a bunch of small children in the car. As I was sitting there completely clueless and embarrassed, a thought came to my mind: " Wait! I didn't forget to ask for safe return - therefore, this should happen!" And all of a sudden I felt such a sense of joy and relief as if I haven't had a single problem in my life. Wherever I turned my eyes, there was light everywhere - but the intensity of the light within was equal to the intensity and pressure of the outside light - so, there was no need for me in expressing any physical gesture of excitement at all, there was no need - I was literally atoned to the light.

And in this state of mind and feeling my hand moved to the ignition key and switched it, without any expectation - and the car engine started smoothly as if nothing happened.

As I was driving down the road in a state of amazement but very aware, I started to see light coming out of everything - similar to the shower-head turned upside down and placed on the soil - fascicles of light were emanating from the soil, tree trunks, house walls....

After some years a read the same description in C Castaneda book," The Power of Silence":

Gradually I focused my vision until I saw I was still sitting in the same position with don Juan—but no longer in the cave. We were on a mountaintop looking down over exquisite flatlands with mountains in the distance. This beautiful prairie was bathed in a glow that, like rays of light, emanated from the land itself. Wherever I looked, I saw familiar features: rocks, hills, rivers, forests, canyons, enhanced and transformed by their inner vibration, their inner glow. This glow that was so pleasing to my eyes also tingled out of my very being.
....
"The cave made your assemblage point move," don Juan thought, and I heard his thoughts as if they were my own words, voiced to myself.

I sensed a command that was not expressed in thoughts. Something ordered me to look again at the prairie.

As I stared at the wondrous sight, filaments of light began to radiate from everything on that prairie. At first it was like the explosion of an infinite number of short fibers, then the fibers became long threadlike strands of luminosity bundled together into beams of vibrating light that reached infinity. There was really no way for me to make sense of what I was seeing, or to describe it, except as filaments of vibrating light. The filaments were not intermingled or entwined. Although they sprang, and continued to spring, in every direction, each one was separate, and yet all of them were inextricably bundled together.

"You are seeing the Eagle's emanations and the force that keeps them apart and bundles them together," don Juan thought.

The instant I caught his thought the filaments of light seemed to consume all my energy. Fatigue overwhelmed me. It erased my vision and plunged me into darkness.

This is another example of symbolism, and the limited capacity of the human mind to replicate the phenomena at will. My vision also faded but the memory of it remained crystal clear.

The C's repeatedly referred to our mind as our greatest asset and the belief center which limits it:

A: Remember, most all power necessary for altering reality and physicality is contained within the belief center of the mind. This is something you will understand more closely when you reach 4th density reality where physicality is no longer a prison, but is instead, your home, for you to alter as you please. In your current state, you have the misinterpretation of believing that reality is finite and therein lies your difficulty with finite physical existence.

So, it is necessary to turn to symbolism in order to bind the perceived reality of physical existence (limited, separate, etc) into the Ocean of All Existence (or the Field) which surround us. It is up to us to explore it and widen our field of possibilities.

Well, just some thoughts.
 

Scottie

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Well, this is how I've been thinking about it all...

I'm a human, and Elvis is a dog. Elvis always wants to know what's going on with his human, so I usually tell him. So, if I'm going to a friend's house to fix a computer, and then stopping at the store to buy something to do some electrical wiring the next day, I might pet Elvis and tell him all this literally in words.

Despite his intelligence, he might perceive it as: "Daddy leaving! Anxiety! Saaaad... Oh, soon he come back. HAPPY! Uh-oh, growling beast [car] is moving, must move out of way..."

Alternatively, I could do what I usually do, which is to talk to him and explain in words while also simultaneously thinking about images of what I will do based on what he knows (for example, he knows my friends, but not their house since he's never been there). At the same time, I feel emotions, like happy to be doing X, Y, and Z, and then VERY happy when I come back and see Elvis again. And I try to create mental images of things from his perspective, not mine. I try to put myself in his fuzzy paws.

This second method seems to work much better, maybe because I'm "speaking his language".

Well, that's kind of like the C's and us, I think. They tell us things in ways we can understand. Sometimes, we misunderstand, or take things too literally. Sometimes, we take those things and run with them, essentially missing the forest for the trees. Other times, they tell us what they must say because we are too convinced we know what's going on, and they won't violate free will (theoretically).

Even then, it's tricky... My favorite example here is the session about W. Bush and how he would become a dictator. Well, he didn't. And yet, in a way, he and his successor did - but not in the literal, in-your-face sense (at least for most people, but I'm sure residents of the enemy combatant torture houses sure saw it that way).

Was that due to a general bias on our part? Or maybe a bias due to one individual present during that particular session? Or was it simply an effective way of communicating "across the barrier" in a way that would get the message across at that time? Who knows!

Given all that, I think maybe the most important point is that we must remember to remain flexible in our thinking. Too much symbolic stuff, and we ignore what's in front of our faces. Too much focusing on the hard reality of the here and now, and we forget that things might be a bit more symbolic, so we can become discouraged and forget about nonlinearity and the importance of what we each have to contribute to the present and the future.

So, I generally try to see the "thread" behind things. What's the flavor of it? We shouldn't assume we know exactly what's going on, but we need to try our hardest to see what is happening to maintain the proper heading and adjust course if necessary.

We really WANT to know what's coming, because control and certainty are nice things, but it seems that this might be one of the biggest lessons of life here: the only certainty in life is uncertainty, which obviously means even that statement is uncertain and therefore contradictory. Isn't this fun? :nuts:

If the C's say, "Fireballs! Comets! Ice age! Earth changes! 5d city on a hill!" and then we see increasing fireballs, crazy weather and cooling, Earth changes, and a psychotic government possibly leading us to WWIII, well, what's gonna happen? Who knows!

I think our "job" is not to know and evade bad stuff and survive, but rather to learn and navigate and channel a different sort of "energy". That just means trying to help each other and ourselves, trying to see what is going on in the world right now, and always remembering that change is the name of the game.

Hell, a few years ago, preppers were regarded as looney and possibly even Evil Terrorists. Today, Obama gets on TV and tells Americans that climate change dictates that they should basically stop being lazy and start being preppers! :huh: :lol:

It would be great to be able to rationalize our way through it all, but by definition I don't think we can since we're using a 3d computer (brain) to try to understand a 3d world which is governed by rules/realities we aren't even fully aware of! This is obvious even from simple things like our total lack of understanding of things like gravity, which is supposed to be "a fundamental force" in the universe. Good luck to us all with that! :P
 

scotseeker

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
An excellent analogy Scottie! I think that there is much in the hidden meaning (or big view meaning) in what the C's say and I for one have to step back, look for the meaning, adjust and move forward. Be vigilant all, we are in rough times and I am sure there is more to come!
 

seve

Jedi
Resuming this thread is therefore essential since the essence of our work in 3D is to finally see the work of the invisible (4D) on our 3D reality and nothing else. This is what the C's have tried to instill in us and nothing else. Rereading this thread did me a world of good.
 

seve

Jedi
C'est marrant que ça arrive tout à l'heure. J'ai travaillé pour que les sessions de 1996 soient annotées et prêtes à être publiées et voilà, il y a quelques remarques faites par Cs dans les sessions du premier semestre de cette année qui touchent à cette question. Je ne m'en souvenais pas et j'ai été surpris de remarquer que les Cs ont plusieurs fois mis en garde contre le fait de prendre les choses ésotériques/spirituelles trop littéralement et de mal interpréter les choses physiques et de leur donner une signification ésotérique alors qu'il n'y en a pas.

Il y a aussi le problème de certaines personnes qui pensent qu'elles veulent simplement "spiritualiser" ou "acquérir des connaissances ésotériques" en étudiant ou en spéculant, mais en refusant le dur travail interpersonnel qui est réellement nécessaire. Ils pensent qu'ils peuvent simplement continuer et vivre leur vie jusqu'à ce que 4D arrive et puis, s'ils ont été assez bons et que nous sommes tous branchés ensemble, ils seront en 4D et tout sera plus facile. Je ne pense pas que ça va se passer comme ça.

Comme l'ont souligné les C, la 4D est plus ou moins ICI tout le temps - comme le sont les autres densités, alors qu'est-ce qui nous empêche d'en faire partie ? De plus, comme l'ont souligné les Cs, 4D est autant un état de conscience qu'un changement d'état. Votre état ne changera pas tant que votre conscience ne le fera pas, et votre conscience ne changera pas tant que vous n'aurez pas changé d'état. Une sorte de piège 22. Ce n'est qu'avec de super efforts, comme l'a dit Gurdjieff, et l'aide du réseau, que vous pouvez vous lancer de l'ancien état vers un nouvel état.

Ils ont donné beaucoup d'indices à ce sujet, comme "voir l'invisible" dont j'ai parlé en détail dans The Wave, mais nous avons appris OH, tellement PLUS au cours des 14 dernières années d'expériences pratiques en cours !!!
Nice text! :-D
 

seve

Jedi
Eh bien, c'est un peu comme les C et nous, je pense. Ils nous disent les choses d'une manière que nous pouvons comprendre. Parfois, nous comprenons mal ou prenons les choses trop littéralement. Parfois, nous prenons ces choses et courons avec elles, manquant essentiellement la forêt pour les arbres. D'autres fois, ils nous disent ce qu'ils doivent dire parce que nous sommes trop convaincus de savoir ce qui se passe, et ils ne violeront pas le libre arbitre (théoriquement).

Même alors, c'est délicat... Mon exemple préféré ici est la session sur W. Bush et comment il deviendrait un dictateur. Eh bien, il ne l'a pas fait. Et pourtant, d'une certaine manière, lui et son successeur l'ont fait - mais pas au sens littéral, en face (du moins pour la plupart des gens, mais je suis sûr que les résidents des maisons de torture des combattants ennemis l'ont bien vu de cette façon) .

Était-ce dû à un parti pris général de notre part ? Ou peut-être un biais dû à une personne présente lors de cette session particulière ? Ou était-ce simplement un moyen efficace de communiquer "à travers la barrière" d'une manière qui ferait passer le message à ce moment-là ? Qui sait!
This one too is worth thinking about;-)
 

France

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
So, I generally try to see the "thread" behind things. What's the flavor of it? We shouldn't assume we know exactly what's going on, but we need to try our hardest to see what is happening to maintain the proper heading and adjust course if necessary.

We really WANT to know what's coming, because control and certainty are nice things, but it seems that this might be one of the biggest lessons of life here: the only certainty in life is uncertainty, which obviously means even that statement is uncertain and therefore contradictory. Isn't this fun? :nuts:

If the C's say, "Fireballs! Comets! Ice age! Earth changes! 5d city on a hill!" and then we see increasing fireballs, crazy weather and cooling, Earth changes, and a psychotic government possibly leading us to WWIII, well, what's gonna happen? Who knows!

I think our "job" is not to know and evade bad stuff and survive, but rather to learn and navigate and channel a different sort of "energy". That just means trying to help each other and ourselves, trying to see what is going on in the world right now, and always remembering that change is the name of the game.
I'm very agree about that.

In 2022, we have to develop our abilities, whatever they may be, to join together to help each other and navigate through the inconsistencies.

To constantly adjust our actions, our thoughts, with an inner assurance to discover the Truth.

Networking it's a great opportunity.
 

shrinocri

The Force is Strong With This One
Well, this is how I've been thinking about it all...

I'm a human, and Elvis is a dog. Elvis always wants to know what's going on with his human, so I usually tell him. So, if I'm going to a friend's house to fix a computer, and then stopping at the store to buy something to do some electrical wiring the next day, I might pet Elvis and tell him all this literally in words.

Despite his intelligence, he might perceive it as: "Daddy leaving! Anxiety! Saaaad... Oh, soon he come back. HAPPY! Uh-oh, growling beast [car] is moving, must move out of way..."

Alternatively, I could do what I usually do, which is to talk to him and explain in words while also simultaneously thinking about images of what I will do based on what he knows (for example, he knows my friends, but not their house since he's never been there). At the same time, I feel emotions, like happy to be doing X, Y, and Z, and then VERY happy when I come back and see Elvis again. And I try to create mental images of things from his perspective, not mine. I try to put myself in his fuzzy paws.

This second method seems to work much better, maybe because I'm "speaking his language".

Well, that's kind of like the C's and us, I think. They tell us things in ways we can understand. Sometimes, we misunderstand, or take things too literally. Sometimes, we take those things and run with them, essentially missing the forest for the trees. Other times, they tell us what they must say because we are too convinced we know what's going on, and they won't violate free will (theoretically).

Even then, it's tricky... My favorite example here is the session about W. Bush and how he would become a dictator. Well, he didn't. And yet, in a way, he and his successor did - but not in the literal, in-your-face sense (at least for most people, but I'm sure residents of the enemy combatant torture houses sure saw it that way).

Was that due to a general bias on our part? Or maybe a bias due to one individual present during that particular session? Or was it simply an effective way of communicating "across the barrier" in a way that would get the message across at that time? Who knows!

Given all that, I think maybe the most important point is that we must remember to remain flexible in our thinking. Too much symbolic stuff, and we ignore what's in front of our faces. Too much focusing on the hard reality of the here and now, and we forget that things might be a bit more symbolic, so we can become discouraged and forget about nonlinearity and the importance of what we each have to contribute to the present and the future.

So, I generally try to see the "thread" behind things. What's the flavor of it? We shouldn't assume we know exactly what's going on, but we need to try our hardest to see what is happening to maintain the proper heading and adjust course if necessary.

We really WANT to know what's coming, because control and certainty are nice things, but it seems that this might be one of the biggest lessons of life here: the only certainty in life is uncertainty, which obviously means even that statement is uncertain and therefore contradictory. Isn't this fun? :nuts:

If the C's say, "Fireballs! Comets! Ice age! Earth changes! 5d city on a hill!" and then we see increasing fireballs, crazy weather and cooling, Earth changes, and a psychotic government possibly leading us to WWIII, well, what's gonna happen? Who knows!

I think our "job" is not to know and evade bad stuff and survive, but rather to learn and navigate and channel a different sort of "energy". That just means trying to help each other and ourselves, trying to see what is going on in the world right now, and always remembering that change is the name of the game.

Hell, a few years ago, preppers were regarded as looney and possibly even Evil Terrorists. Today, Obama gets on TV and tells Americans that climate change dictates that they should basically stop being lazy and start being preppers! :huh: :lol:

It would be great to be able to rationalize our way through it all, but by definition I don't think we can since we're using a 3d computer (brain) to try to understand a 3d world which is governed by rules/realities we aren't even fully aware of! This is obvious even from simple things like our total lack of understanding of things like gravity, which is supposed to be "a fundamental force" in the universe. Good luck to us all with that! :P
I don't really buy the 3D-2D analogy of 6D-3D/4D. There can be some similarities but it's completely different realms. Starting with dog being biological and us not being dogs from future. I don't think it's any helpful. And Cs don't train us, they rather make us learn to think (but it's not literal raising and telling us how to or what to think, even though being confused people demand it often).
 

shrinocri

The Force is Strong With This One
Cassiopeia said many things I remember that were pretty drastic and unambiguous. They said for example that the earth surface is gonna be devastated during the transition and in 4th density we will gonna wake up under a red dust from comets. They were talking about mother ships on the sky, swarms of comets. I think some channeling were mentioning Jesus ascending to a mother ship. There was plenty such stuff especially in early transcripts. First I considered it 1:1 but it could be a left over of Catholic Church believes I was familiar with, 2012 stuff etc. I think it could be relating to our subconscious 3D vision of it. I don't know about 'California under the ocean', it is Nostradamus alike if it wasn't direct and if he was really a seer/a medium himself it would explain his ambiguity.
I think it's a way of thinking. We would be insisting on knowing the truth, having simple answers, a certain vision of reality etc. But it would become a part of our belief, way of thinking, interfering our mentality and will. So they choose to be inspiring, to let us grow in thinking etc. It is kind of food for the mind. As far as I remember the most weird/scariest etc. (according to our beliefs and curiosity) was in earlier channeling. While with the development of knowledge, awareness and thinking it started becoming more friendly and usual. That's how I see it. I would like to see a juxtaposition of 10 issues they were relating to during the years and the real life outcome though. I don't remember anything exact despite of general world events predictions.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
shrinocri, you may want to read the transcripts again, or, even better, read The Wave series, which can be read online for starting free here.

hey said for example that the earth surface is gonna be devastated during the transition and in 4th density we will gonna wake up under a red dust from comets.
The Cs were not describing what the conditions would be like for those transitioning to 4D, they were talking about being reincarnated in 3D instead of graduating to 4D
Q: So, all the things you have suggested are to get us ready for this event?

A: Yes.

Q: Well, we better get moving! We don't have time to mess around!

A: You will proceed as needed, you cannot force these events or alter the Grand Destiny.

Q: I do NOT like the sound of that! I want to go home!

A: The alternative is less appetising.

Q: Sure! I don't want to be lunch!

A: Reincarnation on a 3rd density earth as a "cave person" amidst rubble and a glowing red sky, as the perpetual cold wind whistles...

Q: Why is the sky glowing red?

A: Contemplate.

Q: Of course! Comet dust! Sure, everybody knows THAT! Wonderful!!! Anything further?

A: Stay tuned for all pertinent information.
 

shrinocri

The Force is Strong With This One
shrinocri, you may want to read the transcripts again, or, even better, read The Wave series, which can be read online for starting free here.


The Cs were not describing what the conditions would be like for those transitioning to 4D, they were talking about being reincarnated in 3D instead of graduating to 4D

yes i know, though it doesn't change the fact that neither of this happen
 

shrinocri

The Force is Strong With This One
As I think of it, it reminds me one of the first transcripts which had such ancient vibe relating to what I'd call 3D thinking, beliefs, religion. The 'prehistoric' world vs 4D seems kind of like lake of fire vs heaven (to some extent of course), it's like social engineering method of stick and carrot. You can either be fancy and challenging higher being or stay there and live in a prehistoric destroyed world. I can confuse the details but it's not that important as the psychological symbol and basically every religion uses it (karma, eternal punishment and heaven). It would be kind of lame either way: of course 4D seems promising but it's either dying or dying and living in some primitive world or having 4D enemies. It's either rebirth I guess so the most lame would be if it was all fake or made believe. (Though it was fun to think of it so maybe not as much.)
 
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