I don't get it.... why not destroy evil?

Darius1234 said:
Basically learn all there is, gather all the new knowledge, improve the system. Of course all of this will be "negotiated" between all in order to be balanced.
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How do you know you’d need to improve the system, if you need to learn all there is first? Sounds like the cart before the horse situation. How well does that facilitate this learning process? Does it?
 
BHelmet said:
Same goes for “colonists” narratives. Just another smoke screen told by the victors
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It all started I think when “Christianity became an empire” - which also became a brainwashing control system that selected for gullibility and the tendency to believe in authority figures. I have come across believers who are down on thinking too much - or at all. Thinking is bad, believing without questioning is good. 2000 years of programming, and selection. Manifest destiny - from Galilee to California.

What Josephus said about Judas the Galilean reminds me of the mindset of certain of our leaders today:
But of the fourth sect of Jewish philosophy, Judas the Galilean was the author. These men agree in all other things with the Pharisaic notions; but they have an inviolable attachment to liberty, and say that God is to be their only Ruler and Lord. They also do not value dying any kinds of death, nor indeed do they heed the deaths of their relations and friends, nor can any such fear make them call any man lord. And since this immovable resolution of theirs is well known to a great many, I shall speak no further about that matter; nor am I afraid that any thing I have said of them should be disbelieved, but rather fear, that what I have said is beneath the resolution they show when they undergo pain. And it was in Gessius Florus's time that the nation began to grow mad with this distemper, who was our procurator, and who occasioned the Jews to go wild with it by the abuse of his authority, and to make them revolt from the Romans. And these are the sects of Jewish philosophy.
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This is referenced in FPTM.

Source - where you can also learn about the 3 other philosophies: The Antiquities of the Jews/Book XVIII

Lack of fear of death, not heeding the deaths of relations and friends - great faith or lack of empathy? Does abandoning thought/reason in favor of a belief, namely a false belief, make one fearless? Thought can be ‘the predator’s mind’, but death can be an advisor according to Castaneda.
 
Wandering Star said:
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
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Well, although there may be hurt feelings, no one is being stoned to death here.

If anything, it seems to me that that quote is an anti-networking principle. We all have our sins, faults and imperfections, yes. The quote suggests, however, that because we're all imperfect, no one should ever speak up. I've encountered this BS before in New Age groups, it's like one of the central tenets - thou shalt not judge! In other words, 'don't ruin the vibe' or 'you're creating negativity.'
Hok said:
Reading the comments gave me the impression that there is a lot of sense of superiority on the part of some who have criticized the boy.
As if they were showing their personal miseries in their capacity as seeming to be teachers.
I imagine that if the Cs are supporting forists like that it is for the good of humanity in some sense.
Unless the source is not what he professes.
But also for few comments I can't perform a witch hunt since (nobody is perfect).
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Nah, this isn't a witch hunt. Criticism doesn't imply superiority. I don't see people sharing here as projecting their personal miseries, either.

It's confusing because most people don't like judgment because they don't like conflict, and they don't like the truth because it often hurts. In other words, most people don't like the Work. And this is primarily a 4th Way forum for the Work as described in The Wave. One key aspect of the Work is making use of the Mirror, or offering objective feedback on any given topic, with the aim to get at the truth:

In the 4th Way Work context, the mirror is a group event where one person is shown himself by others. The idea is that a group which is sufficiently diverse, consisting of many different types of people, is more objective than a single person and affords a 360 degree view of a situation or person. To be free of personal likes or dislikes, a mirror should be given in the pursuit of truth and is thus limited to a Work context. Group opinion outside of the Work is notoriously undependable. A mirror generally is perceived as shocking or socially disagreeable. This comes from the fact that if If the mirror is any good, it will conflict with the subjective filters of perception most people maintain concerning themselves. In other words, people's self image is more or less based on lies to self and in the degree the mirror reaches its intended truthfulness, it will challenge these lies. In the theoretical event of a person possessing ‘objective self-knowledge and receiving an objective mirror, there would be no shock or new information.
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For me, that's a better image than perfection and/or casting stones. The 'level of sin' does not and should not place a limit on someone's ability to speak up and participate in the network. Only by talking about our faults and imperfections can we resolve them. And also developing the capacity to receive feedback, knowing that we do not know ourselves.
 
I was enwrapped in this line of thinking myself for a time. All of what I learned has been covered here already; I'm just sharing my own path to coming around to the knowledge presented by others in this thread.
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I remember back around the 2008 financial crash I finally "woke up" to the evil around us, mostly in the form of banksters and politicians and the military and the like (not yet hyperdimensional beings LOL), and I began to believe that the pro-constitution "patriots" had the answers and also held the objective truths that could save 'murika.

So I started reading Rothbard and Bastiat and Mises etc. on the benefits of "sound money" (e.g. precious metals) and I armed up, bought silver and gold, signed on to some patriot web sites, and started reading about guerilla tactics and prepping and stuff. I was completely convinced that we were in the right and that all communists/totalitarians needed "free" Pinochet helicopter rides over the ocean in order to save the world.

What I did not understand then was how simple-minded that approach was; how naïve I was to think everyone would see the wisdom of living that better life I pictured; and how even though I thought that was THE righteous way to live - that by forcing others to live that way I was simply becoming yet another evil tyrant, forever to be hated by communists and those who needed to learn the life lessons those pathways teach. I could not understand then how anyone could ever fall into communism or totalitarianism because of what I had read and come to believe, and so I judged them without ever having been in their shoes.

Then of course I learned about hyperdimensional beings and reincarnation and STS/STO dynamics and all that good stuff. I still know almost nothing except I won't engage with either side of the madness trying to embrace us now. I will do what I must in self-defense but otherwise my attitude is to watch from the sidelines and help those I can however I am able and in whatever ways that they allow, freely offered - as long as they accept me as I am, as I will them. Our shared common humanity overrules all in the end, or so I believe.
 
iamthatis said:
Well, although there may be hurt feelings, no one is being stoned to death here.

If anything, it seems to me that that quote is an anti-networking principle. We all have our sins, faults and imperfections, yes. The quote suggests, however, that because we're all imperfect, no one should ever speak up. I've encountered this BS before in New Age groups, it's like one of the central tenets - thou shalt not judge! In other words, 'don't ruin the vibe' or 'you're creating negativity.'


Nah, this isn't a witch hunt. Criticism doesn't imply superiority. I don't see people sharing here as projecting their personal miseries, either.

It's confusing because most people don't like judgment because they don't like conflict, and they don't like the truth because it often hurts. In other words, most people don't like the Work. And this is primarily a 4th Way forum for the Work as described in The Wave. One key aspect of the Work is making use of the Mirror, or offering objective feedback on any given topic, with the aim to get at the truth:



For me, that's a better image than perfection and/or casting stones. The 'level of sin' does not and should not place a limit on someone's ability to speak up and participate in the network. Only by talking about our faults and imperfections can we resolve them. And also developing the capacity to receive feedback, knowing that we do not know ourselves.
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I totally get what your saying here and agree in many ways.. Although feel it's difficult to know someone well with online interaction, but I do understand that my way of presenting online IS the only thing that others will have to go on, so I also have a responsibility to make sure that I come across well, if possible! This is also quite difficult for me personally but I'm working on it.

I also think it's important to be honest with each other but if possible, expressing these truths with softness, kindness. And this isn't to say that folks here don't do this, its more a sentiment that i'd like to draw attention to. As this takes into account another point that the C's have told us. That the "good" people of this world have been wounded so much by society and family, which is why we find it so hard to get together. And the wounds caused by these situations imo are more likely to create defensive reactions in folks if they are so used to being attacked which is a point that Joe raised. So keeping this in mind may help to facilitate more harmonious interactions whilst still being honest. Not to say that tiptoeing around people is good.. Its more like just taking these things into account
You guys may think I'm a bit of a cupcake for saying this lol and its just an opinion of course which may be faulty I realise.

Although I do think it's good not to pre judge too much, because it's so easy to make errors in judgement. This isn't to say i think it's good to accept everything with an "anything goes" attitude, as part of life dictates that i must judge situations especially in relationships to lay healthy boundaries if something is becoming harmful to myself or others, but I don't find it easy to make the right judgements sometimes, it can be a real struggle. It's one of the reasons why I find networking so difficult online, as it's still difficult to really get to know a person really well, and there are still so many unknowns to me so I find it difficult to make judgements about people for this reason. The C's have also mentioned about networking without prejudice and with love. (If I remember rightly, it may not be their exact words). They also mentioned something about the mirror as being okay for more advanced lessons, something like "handle with care". Again not their exact words apologies.. But it was something along those lines.

I also see things in the context of wider society, which (as wider society is pretty toxic imo) doesn't share the values of this forum in that, say for example, if I said to someone things along the lines of them being egotistical, self aggrandising (if that's a word 😆), I wouldn't expect them to take it very well! I'd basically expect a defensive reaction (even if it is the "wrong" or unhealthy way to react).. As no one really whats to be seen as this kind of person even if its true. Not to say we should humor these social values, more like a defensive reaction it's to be expected to some extent. (Or at least that's how I perceive it). So sometimes someone new to the forum may not understand in the way we do. Again it's not to say this should be indulged too much, but to just take this into account.
I mean, I've been guilty of these failures many times and probably still am. But its taken a while to realise, and I've learned some harsh lessons as a result of these mistakes. Which were beneficial in hindsight so its still a tricky one, as even if my feelings were hurt it had a positive effect. So its a difficult balance to get for me. But I guess that's where networking comes in to get this balance by sharing impressions etc..

For me the saying "he who is without sin cast the first stone" , reminds me that I wasn't always at a stage of development where I could accept criticism with Grace, (And I'm still working on it as its not easy). I found a trait in myself where seem to forget too easily what an absolute nightmare I was, and the saying helps me to remember.
When I was younger what a complete tool.

Sometimes here i feel so completely out of my depth here amongst people that are much further along in the work and are way more intelligent than me and I get really nervous about posting for this reason lol, but it does get easier with time. .
I do also totally get that say, if people keep covering for my mistakes and giving positive feedback when I probably deserve a good kick in the backside isnt going to do me any good!
 
" wider society is pretty toxic" , no kiddin
" Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside-down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality " ( Michael Ellner) , so no , yer not alone , never any of us are , we merely haz to learn to be merciful , onto each other , as much as our ancestors are onto us. :P , or at lest try , ( who are you trying to get crazy with esse )
 
Following this thread, and after some reflection, I tell myself that the difficulty comes from an amalgamation between "I want these predators that threaten me to disappear" and "I don't want these predators to be able to hurt me, I want to escape this predation".
These two sentences share the same need for security, but the first is a reduced vision, "a view at ground level", the kind of point of view that we have when we are taken over by our fears, which happens to all of us.
And when our point widens and we become more aware of the nature of predation, of all these external and internal vectors, the perspective changes.

Thinking about all this, I come to wonder if, as a 3d sts tending towards the sto candidacy, I am looking for an objective point of view and this tells me that I am prey in a world of predation. I am not only that, of course, but this idea is quite unpleasant to me.
Then I tell myself that a prey is not a victim (not always) and that in the animal world prey are also predators of other forms of life.
In the end I tell myself that being a free prey to escape predators is a posture of consciousness that seems quite close to reality. And also, by my biological nature a predator of lower life forms. I could perhaps teach my consciousness to accept being a free prey to refuse the spirit of the predator in my human nature?
 
The problem that I see with eliminating “evil” is that we’ve tried this many times and it has only led to more suffering. Think of the emotional manipulation in America after 9/11. People were signing up for the military to go actively fight “evil”. The obvious problem is that we are always acting from ignorance to varying degrees depending on personal efforts to actually understand an issue. There have been revolutions of all sorts, wars, countless nefarious acts of all sorts all perpetrated by people who felt justified because they were fighting evil.

It seems to me that fighting evil in an external way that exerts your will over others is likely (maybe always) just going to be another manifestation of STS and last time I checked you can’t fight fire with fire. I’m not trying to make the point that there is never a time for physical confrontation. Obviously self defense is fine.

I can think of countless views and positions I’ve held in the past where I absolutely felt like I was on the right side only to find out later I had everything backwards. It seems a bit hard to fight evil if I’m just going to look back and realize I fought the wrong fight.

I think the only way to fight evil the STO way would be to fight it within ourselves via the work. All the bad stuff out there in the world lives within all of us so if we want a better world the best we can do is become better people. From there we may have a chance to help which is done by giving knowledge to those who ask.
 
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