Iodine and Potassium Iodide

[Ollie]

That's right PS, though not in what I wrote, the DMSA is to be taken on the off days ie. the two days a week that we are NOT taking the Lugols. Though from what you write I'm wondering if you mean stopping the Lugols altogether for some weeks while doing the DMSA a few days a week. If so, this may be another way to go about it. And yes, doing DMSA can come with its own set of challenges if one has a lot to clear out.

Yes, that is what I am doing, stopping the Lugols altogether for some weeks while doing the DMSA a few days a week.

 

[Konstantin]

Re: the steps one needs to take to go onto iodine

Hello there.

I am about to take the plunge with the iodine treatment. I am looking into the Lugols one as it seems to get mentioned the most.

Basically I was hoping if someone could point me in the right direction to where I can find an ideal dosage. A link or 2 would be very helpful.

Also what supplementary vitamins etc one should take.

A little bit about my situation if it has any bearing on the dosage? ... I recently turned gluten free which has been somewhat of a revelation for me, not just physically but emotionally as well. Healthwise, my biggest issue is my sleep apnea and somewhat poor blood circulation. I am still somewhat overweight.

Thanks in advance!

You cant find ideal dosage. Someone is getting strong reactions even from 6 mg of Iodine , some other can tolerate up to 100 mg of Iodine. So there is no ideal dosage. Read the recomended books, and most important read this whole thread and you will get a better image how to start this protocol

THe basic suplementations is Salted water( with unrefined salt / 1/2 or 1 teaspoon per day) , B2, Niacinamide ( B3 ) m Vit C, Magnesium, Some liver support suplements. You dont have to take all this. You only need a salted water for sure. But i`m repeating, you should read all the available material here on this thread and the books and then start thinking of starting the iodine protocol
Take your time, get enough information and then start it slowly. ;)

 

[Dirgni]

Re: the steps one needs to take to go onto iodine

Hello there.

I am about to take the plunge with the iodine treatment. I am looking into the Lugols one as it seems to get mentioned the most.

Basically I was hoping if someone could point me in the right direction to where I can find an ideal dosage. A link or 2 would be very helpful.

Also what supplementary vitamins etc one should take.

A little bit about my situation if it has any bearing on the dosage? ... I recently turned gluten free which has been somewhat of a revelation for me, not just physically but emotionally as well. Healthwise, my biggest issue is my sleep apnea and somewhat poor blood circulation. I am still somewhat overweight.

Thanks in advance!

You may want to start with reading this thread. Yes it is long, but very much experience is in it. Then there is the Sott article "Iodine - Suppressed knowledge that can change your life" (Also available in other languages / translations on Sott). At the end of the article you will find book recommendations and further readings. It is highly recommended to do your own reading before you start.

I recommended to start with a very low dose of iodine for 2-3 weeks. Around that time it seems that there are often some reactions / detox symptoms. For,some of us these were quite severe. But many had some even if they first thought there is nothing. So you may be want to be careful with this and do your research first. ;)

 

[Konstantin]

Nickel is used in stainless steel, especially very shiny, low quality stainless. If the stainless steel doesn't stick to magnets very well, then you know it has a lot of nickel in it.

SS is used massively in producing Kithen equipment and utensils. I work in that industry for about 15 years. The best suitable SS grade is AISI 304. I dont really know how much nickel or other metals are relisted from them while using them. Its a huge industry and like any other " big industry-market " it will try to do everything to protect itself and its interests. Like Big pharma and simmilar.

I find one paper that is writing about this problem

When measuring the nickel release from various stainless steel materials into
synthetic sweat, blood and urine, scientists observed that the surface finish of
the materials significantly affected the nickel release. From the polished
materials, the nickel release into each of the test fluids was generally very low.
In the case of stainless steel plates with a matt or mirrored finish, the release of
nickel appeared increase and, in some cases, the release of nickel into urine
and blood plasma was more than twice as high as into artificial sweat.
The metal ion release from stainless steel 316L particles of various sizes and
from metal sheets of various grades, into artificial sweat has also been studied.
The total release into artificial sweat is generally very low. Scientists have only
observed higher release rates with the resulphurated grade 303 steel.


Accominotti et al. (Accominotti, Bost et al. 1998) measured the chromium and nickel
levels in meals cooked in stainless steel pans. Two tested pans contained 17 and 18% of
chromium (grades 436 and 304, respectively), and the pH of meals ranged from 7.0 to
8.7. Slightly increased levels of chromium and nickel were detected in several of the
meals. Some meals prepared in stainless steel saucepans contained more chromium
and nickel than the meals prepared in glass saucepan, but the results were not
consistent. The concentration ranges of chromium in meals prepared in glass or
stainless steel saucepans were 7–47 µg/kg and 7–79 µg/kg, respectively. The
comparable concentrations of nickel were 8—93 µg/kg and 10–132 µg/kg. The increase
in the chromium and nickel contents during cooking was small compared with their
natural contents in the meals


Agarwal et al. (Agarwal, Srivastava et al. 1997) studied leaching of chromium and nickel
from stainless steel (grades not given) pans, bowls and tumblers using mild acidic

solutions (0.1 N) of citric, tartaric and lactic acids. Boiling periods in frying pans and
"storing" in bowls were 10 minutes and 1 hour, respectively. The level of chromium in
the acidic leachate varied from 60 to 130 μg/L and the level of nickel 20‐70 μg/L. When
some Indian curds and juices were used, the leached chromium content was 170–550
μg/L and the nickel content 120–200 μg/L. Agarwal et al. (Agarwal, Srivastava et al.
1997) concluded that not only acidity, but also the complexation of chromium ions
with organic acid anions, affects the extent of leaching.


In conclusion, the studies on the release of chromium and nickel from kitchenware
made of stainless steel provide inconsistent results. In some studies, the chromium or
nickel concentration in foods has increased when acidic food was prepared in new
stainless steel pans and bowls, whereas no remarkable increase was observed in other
studies. However, the measured releases have been very low when compared to the
normal intake of chromium and nickel from food.

Researchers have tested the mutagenicity of the stainless steel
particles in guideline‐based bacterial reverse mutation tests. These
tests have not shown mutagenic effects. In addition, extracts of
stainless steel have not caused any mutagenicity in bacterial tests.
There are studies on the ability of stainless steel to induce
chromosomal aberrations and cell transformation in mammalian
cells. Studies on cell transformation have shown clear differences
between stainless steel and soluble nickel compounds. Stainless
steel powder has been negative in these studies, but soluble nickel
compounds have caused clear positive responses. There are also
some data suggesting that metallic nickel powder may cause cell
transformation in vitro. A mechanistic link from cell transformation
to cancer is unknown, although it has been shown to correlate with
the carcinogenic ability of some substances.

If its accumulating in body and if there is no mechanism in the body to get rid of that accumulating nickel, then every dosage is dangerous because over time it will accumulate in large quantities.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: the steps one needs to take to go onto iodine

Started taking iodine internally; been about a week and a half. Started off with skin application on and off to observe absorption rates, a week or so before starting with the lugols. Had started off with a couple of drops of 2% for two or three days, but then jumped to 50 mg/day. At that point, the canker sore virus that appears from time to time in my mouth (normally during times of immunological activity or stress) re-appeared; I upped the lugols to 100 mg/day, and within 2 - 3 days, the sore was gone.

Currently cruising along at that same 100 mg/day (ie, 40 drops total of 2%). Salt 1st thing, lugols an hour later, 2nd lugols dose late morning. Three grams of Vitamin C late afternoon to early evening. Was already taking a pretty high quality multi that has the proper dose of Selenium as well as all relevant B vitamins, though will need to double check the doses of the latter. Was already taking Magnesium Glycinate.

Am wondering why I haven't seemed to have any major 'detoxing' symptoms. Brain fog, sure. Bit of sinus snuffliness, but no consistent dripping, or 'cold' symptoms, or the like. Have NAC and some Chrorella available just in case, and started taking some the past couple of days. Still have a couple of metal fillings to be replaced eventually. No obvious sign of major bromine issues, though have always had a few (what I realize now are) little angiomas. Breath's a bit bad... but that's not totally unusual.

Emotionally also hard to say, though it wasn't until after I started on the lugols that I posted a more revealing swamp post than I'd hitherto done - as if anxiety had been reduced. A slightly 'lighter' feeling in the mornings (difficult to describe) - but as if a certain unpleasant feeling I've had for some time has reduced a bit. Dreams are definitely busy, though recall varies.

Your dose seem to be quite high for the beginning and you already had/have some symptoms. Around 2-3 weeks in the protocol there could be severe symptoms for some, even if one first experienced nearly nothing. You may want to be careful with this.

 

[Z...]

Hi all, a little update on my situation. I've completed 4 rounds of DMSA and will probably go on for at least 2 more. On the first day of the 3rd round, about 3hrs after taking a dose of DMSA,

Do you pause with Iodine whilst taking DMSA or keep taking it? If you stop do you have a break of few days or you just continue with DMSA cycle next day after Iodine ?

There is so much contradicting information on the net with regards to this, and everyone's theory has its own merit :(

 

[Joe]

Hi all, a little update on my situation. I've completed 4 rounds of DMSA and will probably go on for at least 2 more. On the first day of the 3rd round, about 3hrs after taking a dose of DMSA,

Do you pause with Iodine whilst taking DMSA or keep taking it? If you stop do you have a break of few days or you just continue with DMSA cycle next day after Iodine ?

There is so much contradicting information on the net with regards to this, and everyone's theory has its own merit :(

I haven't taken iodine since Dec. 5th. I'll start again when I'm done with HM detox.

 

[kalibex]

Re: the steps one needs to take to go onto iodine

Currently cruising along at that same 100 mg/day (ie, 40 drops total of 2%).

Your dose seem to be quite high for the beginning and you already had/have some symptoms. Around 2-3 weeks in the protocol there could be severe symptoms for some, even if one first experienced nearly nothing. You may want to be careful with this.

Okay; thank you - so noted. I'm prepared to back off or take a break if necessary as some have reported; just haven't really noticed many side effects yet.

 

[RedFox]

Re: the steps one needs to take to go onto iodine

Okay; thank you - so noted. I'm prepared to back off or take a break if necessary as some have reported; just haven't really noticed many side effects yet.

It can take 1-2 weeks for the thyroid to gain enough iodine, after which excess iodine can cause detox issues (as it's now available to the rest of the body). Be aware that stopping iodine won't stop the detox - it can take a week or two for the detox to ware off, hence the advised caution.
It seems iodine has a cumulative effect, like momentum in a car. If you're up to 80mph, and take your foot off the accelerator it'll take a longer time to stop moving than say 20mph.
There have been a few people that haven't noticed any detox reactions after a month or two on super high doses, so it's possible you are one of those people.

I've been doing fairly high doses of boron lately (9mg per day) and I'm wondering if that's what's helped with the teeth pain. I got regular fluoride treatments at my dentist all throughout my childhood, so I'm thinking maybe the iodine is displacing that, causing pain, but the boron is remineralizing the teeth. Just a theory, and maybe an "out there" one, at that!

I've also found that 9mg of boron to be really good for joint and neck pain.

My personal update - still on 6mg of lugols, and doing quite well. Haven't had any signs of bromide for about a month.
The only issues I was getting (as mentioned earlier) where nerve problems and some neck/joint pain. I've been looking into cell membrane transport (as iodine helps with this) and nerve re-myelination.

The main thing needed for good cell membrane transportation and nerve re-myelination is phosphatidylcholine, so for the last 2 weeks I've been taking sunflower lecithin that I had left over from making liposomal vitamin C.
Some rather interesting things happened!

The first day I got signs of bromide detox (specifically as others had reported swollen/red joints on my hands), plus a huge boost in energy and will power. The second day I got quite severe depression/loneliness that evaporated after a nights sleep. It was like starting the lugols or upping the dose all over again - only super accelerated. I stopped taking lugols after this just to make sure I wasn't detoxing too quickly.
Nerve issues disappeared on the third/fourth day, along with a suprising change in taste (I could taste flavours in food I hadn't noticed), smell (I noticed smells I'd never noticed), sound (I could hear distant sounds more clearly), sight (things where mote vivid) and mood (emotions where more vivid but infinitely more barable).
It wasn't all roses though, apparently lecithin supplements tend to contain residue chemicals from processing that are quite nasty - after a week I was getting problems on top of the improvements that lead me to find out about the chemicals. Vitamin C seems to help with that, but as such I've stopped the supplement for now.

Results after two weeks (along with the above) is glowing healthy skin, good blood pressure balance, warmer hands/feet, a little bit of body fat (my cheeks don't look so sunken), vastly improved long lasting energy, less aches/pains in general, accelerated healing (compared to usual) with cuts/bumps/scrapes. More than that, I can now more easily just 'get on with things' without getting stuck in my thoughts.

I'd taken lecithin before, but had never had results like this. It seems one thing iodine is doing is making supplements more viable.
A note of caution, if you do want to experiment with phosphatidylcholine be aware it may trigger strong detox reactions (and rather quickly it seems, as I had mine within an hour). My theory here is if cells now have what they need to build healthy membranes, they can now detox more readily.
It's also a really good methyl donor, so if you have methyl problems it may accelerate your metabolism (as well as detox pathways). If you find your mind racing, niacin can be used as an antidote.

I'm starting my second round of DMSA today, and am planning to do a urine analysis on round three.
fwiw previous urine analysis (this was a home kit) showed 0 heavy metal toxicity (even after DMSA/EDTA), and previous hair analysis tests again showed 0 heavy metals. Which may make sense if my cells couldn't transport things in/out easily.

I'm going to try raw (cooking destroys the phosphatidylcholine) egg yokes later this week as a more natural source of supplementation without the residue chemicals.
I've read that people suffering MS and nerve degeneration have done well on raw egg yokes. I'll need to have 4-6 a day to get the right amount of phosphatidylcholine.
Do be aware that raw egg yokes may pose other issues (food poisoning), and any raw egg white will block some vitamin absorption.

 

[Z...]

I recommended to start with a very low dose of iodine for 2-3 weeks. Around that time it seems that there are often some reactions / detox symptoms. For,some of us these were quite severe. But many had some even if they first thought there is nothing. So you may be want to be careful with this and do your research first. ;)

This has also been my experience, not severe reaction though. I am in the fourth week now, while for the first few weeks I haven't noticed anything particular except increased energy level, last week or I developed mild sore throat which is worse in the evening. Few days ago I increased Iodine to 5mg but no change.

I started taking second dose of vit c and salt in the afternoon ( this time without adverse reactions like before) but the sore throat is persisting. I am also taking NAC twice a day, ALA 3 times a day, Boron 9mg and Selenium 200mcg in the morning along with 2000mg of DHA and EPA. In the evening 500mg of Mg bysglicinate and some probiotic.

Other then sore throat the only symptom I noticed lately is lightheadedness, with mild anxiousity ( usually triggered by lightheadedness). Usually in the morning.
I am planning to increase to 10 mg of Iodine till the rest of the week, see what happens and then start DMSA cycle. I will stop Iodine whilst taking DMSA.

 

[Konstantin]

The main thing needed for good cell membrane transportation and nerve re-myelination is phosphatidylcholine, so for the last 2 weeks I've been taking sunflower lecithin that I had left over from making liposomal vitamin C.

.
.
.

I'm going to try raw (cooking destroys the phosphatidylcholine) egg yokes later this week as a more natural source of supplementation without the residue chemicals.
I've read that people suffering MS and nerve degeneration have done well on raw egg yokes. I'll need to have 4-6 a day to get the right amount of phosphatidylcholine.
Do be aware that raw egg yokes may pose other issues (food poisoning), and any raw egg white will block some vitamin absorption.

The bolded text from RedFox post light up some theory in my mind. I have a strong Iodine reaction. Last 20 years i`m eating eggs everyday and i love them. My favorite way is when they are cooked but the yolks inside are still raw. I eat from 2-3 up to 7-8 per day . So i have a plenty of phosphatidylcholine in my body and my cell membrane transportation must be very good. So maybe that is why even a small amount of iodine have such an impact on my body. We have to check if other members who have a strong reactions from small doses of iodine have the same thing. A good supply of phosphatidylcholine to their body, so the iodine is easly transported inside the cell and trigered an detox reaction.

I dont know, just a idea that came to my mind while reading RedFox post.

Today the Pancreatic pain is gone. I just decreased a little fats from the breakfast in the morning and add more lean meat in the dinner and just a little more carbs until i feel no symtoms at all. I can still feel just a uncomfortable feeling in that area. Its much better when i`m in motion. I can feel it more when i`m seating. By the way my job is mostly a sedentary so maybe that have an impact too. Last 2 day i took regularly some HCL Betaine with pepsin ,B2, B3, doubled the Vit C dose and it is preetty good.

I dont know how can i describe ,but that strange unpleasant feeling is stretching way down on the lest side of the abdomen. Since all this started i have feeling that i feel that left side of my body more, like i can feel the pulse more on that side. From my left ear to my left hip. Maybe iodine triggered something, some blockage, some toxins. I dont know, i cant explain it. :)

 

[dugdeep]

Re: the steps one needs to take to go onto iodine

The main thing needed for good cell membrane transportation and nerve re-myelination is phosphatidylcholine, so for the last 2 weeks I've been taking sunflower lecithin that I had left over from making liposomal vitamin C.
Some rather interesting things happened!
...

Lecithin is also known as a "liver scrubber" and is one if the main components in a protocol addressing fatty liver. I wonder if a lot of what you describe, RedFox, is a result of the liver dumping "stuff". Just a thought.

 

[Gaby]

Hi all, a little update on my situation. I've completed 4 rounds of DMSA and will probably go on for at least 2 more. On the first day of the 3rd round, about 3hrs after taking a dose of DMSA, I took a urine sample and sent it to a lab for a heavy metal test. The results are below. Unsurprisingly, I have high mercury (although this level needs to be considered in the context of having taken DMSA just before). The other high levels were lead and nickel, which I had never considered. Lead load of some description is probably fairly common, not sure about nickel, but I believe it is also one of the metals in dental amalgams.

Very interesting! That test is pretty reliable to indicate your heavy metal burden. There is a summary in the book "Why Can't I Get Better" by Richard Horowitz on how to measure heavy metal toxicity based on current guidelines and research. Here are some points:

- Horowitz says blood serum levels are not highly reliable unless there had been a recent acute exposure.

- Hair analysis shows elevated levels of heavy metals in some people, but nowhere near the elevated levels that came back on the DMSA urine challenge on the same people. The urine test consistently shows higher levels of mercury, lead, arsenic and other heavy metals when DMSA was used as a provocation agent.

- 30mg/Kg challenge of DMSA (a weight-dependent dose) with a six-hour urine collection yielded superior results to a 24 hour collection with just 500mg of DMSA. The reasoning for this is that only 20% of DMSA is absorbed from the digestive tract and almost all DMSA is cleared by the kidneys in approximately 4 hours.

-Horowitz reports the differences between doing a low dose DMSA challenge with 500mg and the results with a 30mg/kg of DMSA with a six hour urine DMSA challenge. Lead levels went from 9 to 70, and mercury levels went from 1.4 to 9.3 using the higher dosage of DMSA, in the same patient.

- He says that high dose DMSA (30mg/kg) has been safe and well tolerated with only a rare patient reporting nausea, flu like symptoms and a rash if there is an unknown sulfa sensitivity. However, he recommends this "high dose" just for the urine test, to determine your burden of heavy metals. For detox, the very low dose of 100-200mg every two nights or other "low dose" protocol would do just fine. Specially if you are very sick and toxic loaded!

Evil heavy metals!

 

[Beau]

I've also stopped with iodine while I do a heavy metal detox with DMSA. I'm starting my second round today. My first round was mostly benign, a little emotional at times and I got a pretty bad headache on my 4th day, which was my first day of the first round taking only minerals. By about mid-day the headache came on and was rather stubborn. The only thing that helped was drinking ascorbic acid. I started out with 1tsp of powder, it helped a little and a couple of hours later upped the dose to 2tsp of powder. That knocked the headache down pretty well. But I think it's clear that I have plenty of heavy metals in my system that I need to get out, especially since this is my first heavy metal detox.

 

[Joe]

Re: the steps one needs to take to go onto iodine

I'm starting my second round of DMSA today, and am planning to do a urine analysis on round three.
fwiw previous urine analysis (this was a home kit) showed 0 heavy metal toxicity (even after DMSA/EDTA), and previous hair analysis tests again showed 0 heavy metals. Which may make sense if my cells couldn't transport things in/out easily.

If you didn't use a chelator, I'm not surprised the home kit didn't show anything. Best try the micro trace minerals analysis after chelating.