Jeff Rense EXPOSED!!

Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

It is becoming my increasing impression that it is all VERY MUCH related - the connection between WINGTV and SotT has apparently become a very big threat to these boys - so keep your eyes open, as I'm quite certain that more is yet to come.
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

anart said:
Sheesh - truly ridiculous.
Yes, and to many, truly inconceivable :lol:
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

From: "Bruce W" <allthatspam@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: What is the biggest single issue facing the patriot movement today?
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:27:04 +0000

We bet you do not have the balls to read this email on air.

What is the biggest single issue facing the patriot movement today?

That would be IN FIGHTING.

In fighting is merely a distraction and aims to confuse new comers. It
is to create a climate of fear and distrust. At the moment we can see sites
like SOTT carring out standard COINTELPRO ops, as fairly new comers to this
movement, WING TV should not be duped by these agents.

Just because they claim to agree with you, to increase traffic and
sales, does not mean they are what they claim to be. You know this is true,
even if you fail to admit it.

Divide and destroy - remember that. You're empowering the NWO agenda.

You claim you're fighting the NWO by attacking those who are actually
DOING things, but there is a bigger picture.. it's not about who leads us or
who agrees with who, who supports who.

What happens when Jones, Rense, Icke, Rinf, Ruppert, ATS and anyone
else you 'expose' close their doors? What will WING TV do next?

At the moment you're like a kind of twisted cheerleader for these
people and you're giving them notoriety.

So yes, once WING TV has removed these evil doers, what next? Where
will you go and what will you do? And why aren't you doing it already? Do you
have a clear long term plan of action or is it to simply mock anyone who
refuses to come on your show?

I bet you do not have the balls to read this email on air, and I bet
you cannot respond in a mature and adult manner, without throwing insults
in place of facts.

If you are what you claim you are, you will address these points and
give a decent explanation to me and the many many people who have read and
contributed to this email.

Regards,
Mr "no cajones no name" (above) speaks of divide and conquer and it is he that is really the divider and the conqueror. Alex the "spiderboy" Jones speaks of the NWO and it is he that is the real NWO, George bush speaks of a war on terror but it is he that is waging a war OF terror. The crux of the problem is that the world is full of these types of people and such people are divided already, by default, due to their lacking that one crucial element that can give them that one possibility of uniting into a potent force which could withstand the entropic effects of those poneregenic influences that will always slowly corrupt and divide them.

This crutial element that these people lack could simply be termed right thinking . The Cassiopaea website teaches right thinking . Right now SOTT has the emphasis on politics. Tomorrow the emphasis might be on meteors. Or tommorrow it might be on bulb eyed, bulb headed aliens, if the skies above become filled with "in your face" spaceships. Emphasis is placed on those things that matter the most in the moment. The silver thread that connects and unites them all is "right thinking."

Mr no name has no capacity for right thinking. He will always be divided within himself. What is right thinking? Right thinking is the same for all. It is a rule, a "law-cause" that points the way for proper moral reasoning and this law is the same for every human being. It is not some idiosyncratic measure that is changeable and applied only in accordance with ones egotistical subjective preferences. It is the same for all. It is simply called conscience, a rule or measure that applies to one and all.

Conscience is simply conscience. If we go to bed and we think we are in the right because of all sorts of rationalizations and excuses that are rattling around in our head, but yet, something deep within us still tells us that we are wrong, then this is conscience and it is only this that can truly unite people into a potent unstoppable force.

Mr no name can never grasp this. He lacks that crucial element so he will always speak of divisions wherever he goes. If we are physically dirty it takes something higher, some higher element, to cleanse us...water. Similarly it takes "right thinking" to cleanse our mental bodies from all the egotistical thoughts and desires that inwardly divides it. Mr no name will always speak of divisions and divided issues. He could never speak of "single issues" because he will always be divided within himself.
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Just wanted to add my two cents on the Southwest border/immigration issue.

If you look at the history of Southwest, for example, it was originally a Spanish colony. Then the U.S. stole it from Mexico, then in the second half of the nineteenth and first half of the twentieth centuries, engaged in a process that could only be called ethnic cleansing against the original Spanish speaking inhabitants, complete with pogroms, expulsions back to Mexico, and massacres. Then, in the 1960s hispanics started to move back. And we are saying they should "get in line?"

If money is able to move across borders then so should people.

Don

Lisa said:
I think you need to understand that I embrace the original intent of the Minuteman Project but not what it has turned into with this Diener group link.
Also, there is a process to enter the United States in which people follow a procedure and wait in line.
I do not think it is fair or right for people to cut that line and jump ahead of others who are waiting and following the legal process.
This is how I look at it, no matter where the illegals originate from.
It is not a racist point of view.
Please do not twist my words in the previous post I made.
I do not embrace the current state of things in the Minuteman Project.
I am very discouraged by it.
There is a real crisis occurring in the border states and the original idea was a good one, in my view.
Now, it has been signed over to neocons.
As our guest said, it looks like the MMP is dead now.
I really don't know what else to say about this, but I hope I've made myself understood.

Lisa
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Question: This might be a dumb thing to ask, but I will ask anyway.
Are you saying that because Mr. No-Cajones lacks that crucial capacity for right thinking, that what he lacks is actually a conscience?
I think this is what you're saying and if so, I do agree with that.
I have thought a lot about the people I've encountered who live life as though there is no compass to guide them, no line drawn between right and wrong, no line between truth and lie, no boundaries of cruelty or inhumanity they will not cross.
I may be very wrong about this, but I think there are a lot of people in this world who are either very proficient at ignoring their conscience or they have no conscience.
Which is it?
Maybe this is a no-brainer too, but if they don't have one, what happened to it?
How does one end up not having a conscience? What has to happen to a human being to destroy or silence conscience?

I swear this is a real question.

Lisa
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Actually, it's a very real question, and one that is addressed in this (very long) thread - if you have the time, you may want to check it out...

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=457
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Donald,

What would you propose then? The southwest is part of the U.S. now, and we cannot change how this happened, as rotten as those events must have been or how much we'd like to erase that part of history and write it anew. Hospitals are bankrupt or sagging from the overload of illegals, border town communities are experiencing a nightmare from the influx of illegals, crime there is escalating because of illegals, many of the illegals do not want to assimilate, they want to reclaim - ya know, "reconquista". Many of them act as if the rules of this country do not apply to them in any way, shape or form, yet they demand to live here among people who are required to obey laws and rules of society.
I understand your point of view and can appreciate it, but how is this problem resolved?
Unimpeded movement of these people into all parts of the U.S. is going to alleviate this situation or worsen it?
The whole thing is out of control, and I guess that's exactly what it was desgned to be.
Chaos.
America is being reduced to third world nation status. And as Laura commented to me earlier (and I agree), this is not simply due to illegal immigration, but also due to outsourcing.
What is to be done?

Lisa
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

regarding the question about conscience above I might suggest the page:

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

It has a lot of links on the left, it might be helpfull to read the page at
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm
before jumping into the thread about OP's and then the page at http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm
offers some more important insights. Personally I found the articles to be quite a helpfull read, I had a bit of trouble going through the a couple of threads do to the unneeded drama, but then laura pointed out to me that there is quite a bit to learn from even the drama in the threads - so I altered my stance a bit, and yeah it was more informative then.
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Lisa said:
Question: This might be a dumb thing to ask, but I will ask anyway.
Are you saying that because Mr. No-Cajones lacks that crucial capacity for right thinking, that what he lacks is actually a conscience?
Yes most likely. I think right thinking begins with moral reasoning.

I think this is what you're saying and if so, I do agree with that.
I have thought a lot about the people I've encountered who live life as though there is no compass to guide them, no line drawn between right and wrong, no line between truth and lie, no boundaries of cruelty or inhumanity they will not cross.
Yes, very well put. For such people they are basically amoral and all of their talk of morality is simply empty talk. They have an outer morality that is simply learned behavior but they lack an "inner morality" or "north star" to guide them. They have no real inner sense of right and wrong. They can imitate conscience existentially but they can't feel it....essentially.

This is one definition of conscience:

"conscience is the emotional side of CONSCIOUSNESS; a state in which one is aware simultaneously of all one's contradictory emotions about a subject. It is often experienced as a feeling of the right action in a situation".

I may be very wrong about this, but I think there are a lot of people in this world who are either very proficient at ignoring their conscience or they have no conscience.
Which is it?
That's a good question and I don't think you are wrong at all. You might want to read the
threads on Organic Portals about this. It seems that some people are not "wired" to feel conscience. Other people are but a kind of crust forms around it to inhibit them from feeling it. In a way you can say that conscience is a 'higher organ of feeling' and there is a large segment of humanity who simply lack this organ due to genetics.

Maybe this is a no-brainer too, but if they don't have one, what happened to it?
How does one end up not having a conscience? What has to happen to a human being to destroy or silence conscience?

I swear this is a real question.

Lisa
All excellent questions. I guess you can say that conscience is a function of a normal human being and it is the representative of God in our essence. But it is buried deeply in our subconscious because a kind of outer crust has been formed around it that inhibits us from feeling it, or perhaps we feel it only slightly as that 'still small voice. Gurdjieff calls this outer crust 'buffers.' Nothing has really 'happened' to it, it's just buried and we lose touch with it. However conscience is indestructible and 'whole' and it remains buried until we begin to open ourselves to it. So we can't really destroy it, but it can be buried.

I'll post an excerpt from Ouspensky's 'In Search Of The Miraculous' where Gurdjieff (Ouspensky's teacher) talks about conscience:

Excerpt from 'In Search Of The Miraculous' by P.D.Ouspensky Chap. 8

G. began one of the following talks with the fact that we forget about the difficulties of our position.

"You often think in a very naive way," he said. "You already think you can do. To get rid of this conviction is more difficult than anything else for a man. You do not understand all the complexity of your organization and you do not realize that every effort, in addition to the results desired, even if it gives these, gives thousands of unexpected and often undesirable results, and the chief thing that you forget is that you are not beginning from the beginning with a nice clean, new machine. There stand behind you many years of a wrong and stupid life, of indulgence in every kind of weakness, of shutting your eyes to your own errors, of striving to avoid all unpleasant truths, of constant lying to yourselves, of self-justification, of blaming others, and so on, and so on. All this cannot help affecting the machine. The machine is dirty, in places it is rusty, and in some places artificial appliances have been formed, the necessity for which has been created by its own wrong way of working.

"These artificial appliances will now interfere very much with all your good intentions.

"They are called 'buffers.'

" 'Buffer' is a term which requires special explanation. We know what buffers on railway carriages are. They are the contrivances which lessen the shock when carriages or trucks strike one another. If there were no buffers the shock of one carriage against another would be very unpleasant and dangerous. Buffers soften the results of these shocks and render them unnoticeable and imperceptible.

"Exactly the same appliances are to be found within man. They are created, not by nature but by man himself, although involuntarily. The cause of their appearance is the existence in man of many contradictions; contradictions of opinions, feelings, sympathies, words, and actions. If a man throughout the whole of his life were to feel all the contradictions that are within him he could not live and act as calmly as he lives and acts now. He would have constant friction, constant unrest. We fail to see how contradictory and hostile the different I's of our personality are to one another. If a man were to feel all these contradictions he would feel what he really is. He would feel that he is mad. It is not pleasant to anyone to feel that he is mad. Moreover, a thought such as this deprives a man of self-confidence, weakens his energy, deprives him of 'self-respect.' Somehow or other he must master this thought or banish it. He must either destroy contradictions or cease to see and to feel them. A man cannot destroy contradictions. But if 'buffers' are created in him he can cease to feel them and he will not feel the impact from the clash of contradictory views, contradictory emotions, contradictory words.

"'Buffers' are created slowly and gradually. Very many 'buffers' are created artificially through 'education.' Others are created under the hypnotic influence of all surrounding life. A man is surrounded by people who live, speak, think, and feel by means of 'buffers.' Imitating them in their opinions, actions, and words, a man involuntarily creates similar 'buffers' in himself. 'Buffers' make a man's life more easy. It is very hard to live without 'buffers.' But they keep man from the possibility of inner development because 'buffers' are made to lessen shocks and it is only shocks that can lead a man out of the state in which he lives, that is, waken him. 'Buffers' lull a man to sleep, give him the agreeable and peaceful sensation that all will be well, that no contradictions exist and that he can sleep in peace. 'Buffers' are appliances by means of -which a man can always be in the right. 'Buffers' help a man not to feel his conscience.

" 'Conscience' is again a term that needs explanation.

"In ordinary life the concept 'conscience' is taken too simply. As if we had a conscience. Actually the concept 'conscience' in the sphere of the emotions is equivalent to the concept 'consciousness' in the sphere of the intellect. And as we have no consciousness we have no conscience.

"Consciousness is a state in which a man knows all at once everything that he in general knows and in which he can see how little he does know and how many contradictions there are in what he knows.

"Conscience is a state in which a man feels all at once everything that he in general feels, or can feel. And as everyone has within him thousands of contradictory feelings which vary from a deeply hidden realization of his own nothingness and fears of all kinds to the most stupid kind of self-conceit, self-confidence, self-satisfaction, and self-praise, to feel all this together would not only be painful but literally unbearable.

"If a man whose entire inner world is composed of contradictions were suddenly to feel all these contradictions simultaneously within himself, if he were to feel all at once that he loves everything he hates and hates everything he loves; that he lies when he tells the truth and that he tells the truth when he lies; and if he could feel the shame and horror it all, this would be the state which is called 'conscience. A man cannot live in this state; he must either destroy contradictions or destroy conscience. He cannot destroy conscience, but if he cannot destroy it he can put it to sleep, that is, he can separate by impenetrable barriers one feeling of self from another, never see them together, never feel their incompatibility, the absurdity of one existing alongside another.

"But fortunately for man, that is, for his peace and for his sleep, this state of conscience is very rare. From early childhood 'buffers' begin to grow and strengthen him, taking from him the possibility of seeing his inner contradictions and therefore, for him, there is no danger whatever of a sudden awakening. Awakening is possible only for those who seek it and want it, for those who are ready to struggle with themselves and work on themselves for a very long time and very persistently in order to attain it. For this it is necessary to destroy 'buffers,' that is, to go out to meet all those inner sufferings which are connected with the sensations of contradictions. Moreover the destruction of 'buffers' in itself requires very long work and a man must agree to this work realizing that the result of his work will be every possible discomfort and suffering from the awakening of his conscience.

"But conscience is the fire which alone can fuse all the powders in the glass retort which was mentioned before and create the unity which a man lacks in that state in which he begins to study himself.

"The concept 'conscience' has nothing in common with the concept 'morality.'

"Conscience is a general and a permanent phenomenon. Conscience is the same for all men and conscience is possible only in the absence of 'buffers.' From the point of view of understanding the different categories of man we may say that there exists the conscience of a man in whom there are no contradictions. This conscience is not suffering; on the contrary it is joy of a totally new character which we are unable to understand. But even a momentary awakening of conscience in a man who has thousands of different I's is bound to involve suffering. And if these moments of conscience become longer and if a man does not fear them but on the contrary cooperates with them and tries to keep and prolong them, an element of very subtle joy, a foretaste of the future 'clear consciousness' will gradually enter into these moments.

"There is nothing general in the concept of 'morality.' Morality consists of buffers. There is no general morality. What is moral in China is immoral in Europe and what is moral in Europe is immoral in China. What is moral in Petersburg is immoral in the Caucasus. And what is moral in the Caucasus is immoral in Petersburg. What is moral in one class of society is immoral in another and vice versa. Morality is always and everywhere an artificial phenomenon. It consists of various 'taboos,' that is, restrictions, and various demands, sometimes sensible in their basis and sometimes having lost all meaning or never even having had any meaning, and having been created on a false basis, on a soil of superstition and false fears.

"Morality consists of 'buffers.' And since 'buffers' are of various kinds, and as the conditions of life in different countries and in different ages or among different classes of society vary considerably, so the morality created by them is also very dissimilar and contradictory. A morality common to all does not exist. It is even impossible to say that there exists any general idea of morality, for instance, in Europe. It is said sometimes that the general morality for Europe is 'Christian morality.' But first of all the idea of 'Christian morality' itself admits of very many different interpretations and many different crimes have been justified by 'Christian morality.' And in the second place modern Europe has very little in common with 'Christian morality,' no matter how we understand this morality.

"In any case, if 'Christian morality' brought Europe to the war which is now going on, then it would be as well to be as far as possible from such morality,"

"Many people say that they do not understand the moral side of your teaching," said one of us. "And others say that your teaching has no morality at all."

"Of course not," said G. "People are very fond of talking about morality. But morality is merely self-suggestion. What is necessary is conscience. We do not teach morality. We teach how to find conscience. People are not pleased when we say this. They say that we have no love. Simply because we do not encourage weakness and hypocrisy but, on the contrary, take off all masks. He who desires the truth will not speak of love or of Christianity because he knows how far he is from these. Christian teaching is for Christians. And Christians are those who live, that is, who do everything, according to Christ's precepts. Can they who talk of love and morality live according to Christ's precepts? Of course they cannot; but there will always be talk of this kind, there will always be people to whom words are more precious than anything else. But this is a true sign! He who speaks like this is an empty man; it is not worth while wasting time on him.

"Morality and conscience are quite different things. One conscience can never contradict another conscience. One morality can always very easily contradict and completely deny another. A man with 'buffers' may be very moral. And 'buffers' can be very different, that is, two very moral men may consider each other very immoral. As a rule it is almost inevitably so. The more 'moral' a man is, the more 'immoral' does he think other moral people.

"The idea of morality is connected with the idea of good and evil conduct. But the idea of good and evil is always different for different people, always subjective in man number one, number two, and number three, and is connected only with a given moment or a given situation. A subjective man can have no general concept of good and evil. For a subjective man evil is everything that is opposed to his desires or interests or to his conception of good.

"One may say that evil does not exist for subjective man at all, that there exist only different conceptions of good.

Nobody ever does anything deliberately in the interests of evil, for the sake of evil.

Everybody acts in the interests of good, as he understands it.

But everybody understands it in a different way. Consequently men drown, slay, and kill one another in the interests of good.

The reason is again just the same, men's ignorance and the deep sleep in which they live. "This is so obvious that it even seems strange that people have never thought of it before. However, the fact remains that they fail to understand this and everyone considers his good as the only good and all the rest as evil. It is naive and useless to hope that men will ever understand this and that they will evolve a general and identical idea of good.

" "But do not good and evil exist in themselves apart from man?" asked someone present.

"They do," said G., "only this is very far away from us and it is not worth your while even to try to understand this at present. Simply remember one thing. The only possible permanent idea of good and evil for man is connected with the idea of evolution; not with mechanical evolution, of course, but with the idea of man's development through conscious efforts, the change of his being, the creation of unity in him, and the formation of a permanent I.

"A permanent idea of good and evil can be formed in man only in connection with permanent aim and a permanent understanding. If a man understands that he is asleep and if he wishes to awake, then everything that helps him to awake will be good and everything that hinders him, everything that prolongs his sleep, will be evil.

Exactly in the same way will he understand what is good and evil for other people. What helps them to awake is good, what hinders them is evil. But this is so only for those who want to awake, that is, for those who understand that they are asleep. Those who do not understand that they are asleep and those who can have no wish to awake, cannot have understanding of good and evil. And as the overwhelming majority of people do not realize and will never realize that they are asleep, neither good nor evil can actually exist for them.

"This contradicts generally accepted ideas. People are accustomed to think that good and evil must be the same for everyone, and above all that good and evil exist for everyone. In reality, however, good and evil exist only for a few, for those who have an aim and who pursue that aim. Then what hinders the pursuit of that aim is evil and what helps is good.

But of course most sleeping people will say that they have an aim and that they are going somewhere. The realization of the fact that he has no aim and that he is not going anywhere is the first sign of the approaching awakening of a man or of awakening becoming really possible for him. Awakening begins when a man realizes that he is going nowhere and does not know where to go.
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Lisa said:
Donald,

What would you propose then? The southwest is part of the U.S. now, and we cannot change how this happened, as rotten as those events must have been or how much we'd like to erase that part of history and write it anew. Hospitals are bankrupt or sagging from the overload of illegals, border town communities are experiencing a nightmare from the influx of illegals, crime there is escalating because of illegals, many of the illegals do not want to assimilate, they want to reclaim - ya know, "reconquista". Many of them act as if the rules of this country do not apply to them in any way, shape or form, yet they demand to live here among people who are required to obey laws and rules of society.
I understand your point of view and can appreciate it, but how is this problem resolved?
Unimpeded movement of these people into all parts of the U.S. is going to alleviate this situation or worsen it?
The whole thing is out of control, and I guess that's exactly what it was desgned to be.
Chaos.
America is being reduced to third world nation status. And as Laura commented to me earlier (and I agree), this is not simply due to illegal immigration, but also due to outsourcing.
What is to be done?

Lisa
Hi Lisa,

It's 1 AM where I am, so I will just say for now that I also understand your point of view and appreciate it. Definitely no easy answers on this one.

I will elaborate more on this tomorrow, since it is an interesting topic, I think.

I'll just say that I don't want them building walls at the border because I may want to get escape out of here ;)


Don
 
Video of Jeff Rense

Also as Lisa said on the Podcast - confirms he's an opera fan as well. I wonder where the video was shot?
Nice find, Craig. :)
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Lisa said:
Hospitals are bankrupt or sagging from the overload of illegals, border town communities are experiencing a nightmare from the influx of illegals, crime there is escalating because of illegals, many of the illegals do not want to assimilate, they want to reclaim - ya know, "reconquista".
Hi Lisa,

I think that hospitals are bankrupt because the US doesn't have an adequate health care system. It is easy to blame it on illegals, but the fact that the US has no national health care system for its people is a scandal. Yes, I know that many people there would see that as "socialism", and god knows the US people have been brainwashed for years about socialism. (And, yes, the bad guys were promoting socialism and communism, but they were promoting capitalism, too. The entire system is corrupt.) However, the US doesn't spend the money it should or could on providing health care, supporting hospitals, etc.

Look at the money going for Iraq, and it is clear it is a question of priorities. The US people and their health have never been a priority for the Powers That Be.

As for the whole "reconquista" thing, I think this is way overplayed by certain elements in order to promote hostility against the iimmigrants. Check out Dave Neiwert's Orcinus blog on this question. He also has a lot to say about the Minutemen.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/04/reconquista.html

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/05/reconquista-redux.html

There's more if you do a search on "reconquista" on his site.

Lisa said:
Many of them act as if the rules of this country do not apply to them in any way, shape or form, yet they demand to live here among people who are required to obey laws and rules of society.
How many of them act this way? What percentage? Is it higher among immigrants than it is among other sectors of the population? Higher than among those engaged in white collar crime?

I don't have any statistics in front of me about crime in the US and who does what share. But I think it is easy to blame illegals and not see the situation in the international context. It is easy to blame the illegals when the entire country's wealth is based on robbing the rest of the world, that is, on breaking laws elsewhere, be they legal, business, or even moral -- and now more and more in the US itself.

Illegal immigration is encouraged by those owners that need cheap labour. They are used for their labour power, but are given no guarantees: be cheap labour or be deported. They come from countries exploited by the US for years. They no doubt come with illusions about what the US will be able to give them, and when they find themselves in a miserable situation, they have a hard time dealing with their fallen illusions, like all of us would or do. They are people like us, after all. How easy it is for any of us to let go of a deep-seated illusion?

Americans as a whole have the standard of living they have, even though it is being taken away from them now, because their government and corporations do not respect the laws of other countries, or they get them rewritten through bribes and strong arming to accomodate US corporations. US wealth is based upon the exploitation of the world. That can't be forgotten. With Bush Jr. things are more out in the open, but US interference in the rest of the world didn't begin on 9/11.

So I think that people in the US need to better understand and integrate the real role of their country in the world in order to understand what is happening there now.


Lisa said:
I understand your point of view and can appreciate it, but how is this problem resolved?
Unimpeded movement of these people into all parts of the U.S. is going to alleviate this situation or worsen it?
I find that the underlying assumption of many people who want to stop the illegals or who are upset at what is happening in the US today is a kind of romanticism or nostalgia for the "good ole days": let's go back to when America was great, when small town America was safe, etc. The problem I have with that is that it is an illusion. If America was once a better place, it is because it was either exploiting its own indigenous people or exploiting other parts of the world.

The wealth that permitted the sense of security and optimism about the future in the past was gotten through oppressive means from elsewhere or the exploitation of blacks, Natives, etc. at home. The system has never been just, it is only that before, there was a sharing of that wealth with a wider spread of the US population. Now that this sharing of the spoils is drying up, it is getting uncomfortable.

But if it was more comfortable before, it was based upon other people's discomfort.

Lisa said:
The whole thing is out of control, and I guess that's exactly what it was desgned to be.
Chaos.
Ain't that the truth!

Lisa said:
America is being reduced to third world nation status. And as Laura commented to me earlier (and I agree), this is not simply due to illegal immigration, but also due to outsourcing.
What is to be done?

Lisa
Well, I don't think that this world will ever be just, but that is a question that touches upon psychopathy, ponerology, and the esoteric questions that we deal with. And it comes down to conscience.

But the first step forward is to put aside all of our illusions, about ourselves, about the world, and about the USA.
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Oh, don't get me wrong. I know the health care system is screwed up.
All our "systems" are screwed up, designed to be screwed up.
I base much of my opinions on what is going on in the border states from conversations with people who live in the border states, people who are experiencing the situation as it is happening.
I do think it has been overplayed/exaggerated/amplified/ and spun in the media (what else is new, right?) in order to distract people and create different 'camps" of thinking.
They do the same thing with other issues too, by pitting various groups against one another - black vs. white, young vs. old, gay vs. straight, and so on.
Distraction and diversion.
I don't know what the answer is to this whole mess, nor do I pretend to know.
I think the whole thing is a giant mess.
As for the U.S. and its robbing of other nations, you will get no argument or excuses from me there. I don't condone, deny or try to justify the wrongdoing and crimes of the U.S. government throughout its history up to and including present times.
Unfortunately, I cannot stop any of it and the people in power who can, have no interest whatsoever in stopping it (because they are DOING it and/or work for the people who are doing it).
It's beyond broken, it's diabolical and sick and pervasive evil.
People often tell us they intend to move out of the country, and I understand this position.
I think a lot of people (even me) love the IDEA of america, the concept of America.
But when we look at the abysmal situation in this country and the havoc, chaos and destruction that's been created by U.S. powerplayers and their bosses, if we're honest, we must call it as it is, place blame where it belongs, and refuse to paint the whole sh*tmess with a fluffy Norman Rockwell brush.
The U.S. government has systematically and categorically done the dirty work of destoying the entire planet and is working on destroying most of the human race, from the looks of it.
They have help in this from leaders of other nations like Israel, sure.
But all roads begin and end right here, in the land of the deluded.
I am very ashamed of what this government has done to the rest of the world.
I also don't know how to fix any of it, make up for any of it, stop anymore of it, or change any of it.
However, I am genuinely sorry for all of it.
What a messed up world we live in.
All I can do is try to tell the truth as I see it and hold onto a bit of hope in tomorrow.

Lisa
 
Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Once again, some good answers were given, so I am wondering if it is useful to even post this. Anyway, just my own thoughts on the matter.

Lisa said:
Unimpeded movement of these people into all parts of the U.S. is going to alleviate this situation or worsen it?
The whole thing is out of control, and I guess that's exactly what it was designed to be.
Chaos.
America is being reduced to third world nation status. And as Laura commented to me earlier (and I agree), this is not simply due to illegal immigration, but also due to outsourcing.
What is to be done?
I do not have ready solutions to this issue. I believe that solutions can only be approached through using the extensive computing power of many networked human minds, provided those minds approach the problem with the right attitude.

As such, I would simply like to express some thoughts on the problem to point out some ways of addressing it through which solutions may eventually emerge.

The immigration issue is an example of a legitimate problem used by disinformation shills to manipulate people's awareness. The problem is real, but it is just not examined in a manner thorough enough to allow for even the hope of a real solution.

When there is no deeper examination and understanding of such an issue in a historic context, the only obvious solutions are those that endlessly perpetuate the problem.

On the other hand, deep examination can be resisted because people may be afraid of their own inevitable conclusions. So afraid, that knee-jerk violence often may seem a more acceptable option.

Right now this issue is one of those wonderful levers the PTB appreciate as means to get populations to hand complete power over to them. That, in my opinion, is the REAL problem. And it is presented no just to the U.S.American people, but versions of it are evident everywhere in the world.

We can see the PTB as our wake-up call as members of humanity: No more shoving things under the rug. Deal with problems as old as humanity or they (and the PTB) will deal with us. Period. The PTB is, after all, OUR shadow.

The world over throughout the millennia, we see the same pattern. Population A, in search of survival resources (and out of greed) eliminates population B from a geographic area. After a time, population B regroups and pushes population A back, eliminating them from the area. Population A retaliates, and so on.

This is a kind of perpetual oscillation of death, misery and hatred. The only way to resolve the problem is to put a stop to the oscillation, because just pushing back again only keeps driving it. That is a fact proven by history.

My own parents were immigrants to the US (back in the mid 60's). My mother at some point worked in a home for the elderly as a nurse's assistant. She still had a green card, and worked with citizens and other immigrants with green cards.

She got the same wages as the citizens, while the Phillipino and Latino aids got half her wages. She asked the head nurse about this, and was told: "if they don't like it, let them go back where they came from".

If this attitude was pure greed, I don't think white immigrants would be excluded from the injustice. I think the nurse based her response on a fear of being overrun by people "other" than "us". It is this fear that makes people of any given population group willing accomplices in atrocities instigated by their rulers.

And in this day and age, the rulers are not representing a given population, but collaborating across population boundaries to create chaos and gain complete control of their true enemy: the people.

Of course, this was already mentioned, but I just want to lay it out.

So far, there are five things that are evident:

1) We cannot blame the immigrants. If we were they under the same conditions, the majority of us (U.S.American citizens of any race or creed) would do the same thing.
2) We cannot just push them back, eliminate them or control them. That would only make them push harder. The PTB would love for this to happen. The camps are waiting for this to happen.
3) The fear of being assimilated by "ways" other than our own, and the corresponding drive to assimilate those who are not like us, is at the root of the problem.
4) Although the cause is in the people, exacerbated by a history of one population traumatizing another, the trigger and stimulus originate in the PTB, because they have set up conditions favourable to chaos and the perpetuation of trauma.
5) We cannot blame ourselves. If the immigrants were in our shoes they would most likely tend to act the same way. The fear of assimilation by a foreign group is universal in humanity.

Both Mexico and the US are countries with ample resources. The resources just never get to the masses in Mexico, and the same is happening in the US. What I find interesting is that for decades U.S.Americans had a generally condescending attitude to third world poverty.

"Patriotic" voices like Frosty Woolridge flippantly shout: "those people can't manage their countries", while refusing to admit that NOBODY but the PTB are really doing any managing in any country. Those like him just want the politicians (and if not them the people themselves) to make the problem go away.

When I hear people ask for solutions, in fact, what registers in my brain is: "How do we make the problem go away?" So the attitude is not to untangle the knot and save the thread, but to cut it out like a tumour. When the problem is engrained in us, such a strategy can only make matters worse.

U.S.Americans cry out against outsourcing, while most are avid, even fanatical supporters of "free enterprise" as the source of American prosperity.

So really nobody gave a hoot (more than the occasional donation) about starving masses in the world, whose misery fed the American economy for decades. From the point of view of those masses, corporations are a godsend, and U.S.Americans find themselves the victims of the free enterprise most still support.

From literal starvation third worlders can now actually EARN a whole Euro in one day, sometimes more! So, if you look at the big picture the people of the US are simply reaping what they have allowed to be sown, by supporting a system that is now striking back at them. They refuse to see that the very "American Way" is their ruin.

The problems facing us are not limited to any one country. We are global civilization, whether we like it or not. We are challenged to insure that this global civilization does not turn into a new world order.

So we have to face the fact that local solutions will not work. Desperate people resort to desperate measures, including crime. I have never starved, but I've known people who have. Even though they may have eventually escaped starvation, memories of it always bring a haunted look in their eyes.

All over the world, mostly prompted by their PTB supported religious leaders, impoverished peoples are applying strategies of "reconquest" in the only way they know how, rampant reproduction.

What can stop this is a better way of life for those people, coupled with independence from cultural and religious bondage. Given the depth of the conditionings, and the extensive powers of the PTB, this will not be happening any time soon.

So then back to the question: What do we do?

To paraphrase Sherlock Holms:

In searching to solve a problem, you first eliminate those avenues that are NOT viable solutions. Those which remain, however difficult, are the most probable avenues of resolution to the problem.
I will stop my rambling here. This problem, and others like it, cannot have solutions provided by any one person. Only a network, and very likely a series of networks can begin to approach such issues in solidarity and colinearity.

That is because these are not just social problems, but deeply rooted in human conditioning. A better way to describe them (although a bit outside convention) would be as collective karma. They are issues of human family reflected in each of us, and the greater the network addressing them, the higher the creative focus toward resolution.

So we need the right attitude. We need to put fear on the shelf, and we need to examine the problem from all angles. In my little exposition above, I have barely scratched the surface.

We need to see what drives the trauma oscillation, and how the word can get out to all groups involved that the problem is objectively not one of lack of resources, but of manipulation and control of resources.

We need to admit that the simplest solutions (violence and "proper channels") are not solutions. And we need to reach a frame of mind that is not limited to those two options.

And I sincerely believe that the only way to approach such issues are through a networking organism extending through the cultural, religious and ideological boundaries imposed by our own conditionings and the PTB.

So no, I don't have a solution. I have the conviction, however, that this problem cannot go away, or be elliminated. It's Gordian knot cannot be cut. It must be carefully and painstakingly untied, and for that many cooperating fingers are necessary.

In short, to resolve the problem we must first learn how to approach it. IMO, most current methods have proven to be futile, at least if we look at what history has to teach us.
 
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