July 2016 Military Coup in Turkey

[Pierre]

I think it was a badly done US/NATO/CIA maneuver - organized in a hurry.

Yeah, Russian analysts say that either the coup was badly organized, and it shows that US completely lost control over Turkey and Middle East, or they reached some sort of agreement with Erdogan. In any case, they all say that Erdogan probably knew about the upcoming coup and that's why decided to "apologize" to Russia. Some also mention the connection to clandestine organisation Ergenekon, and its direct connection with Mossad.

Maybe Putin warned Erdogan and he was prepared to deal with it and slapped CIA/NATO/USA.

If that's the case Erdogan now knows Russia is a real ally and the US is the enemy. Maybe, in the not too distant future, we'll see Turkey getting closer to Russia, which rises interesting opportunities: building pipelines, accessing the Mediterranean sea, cutting ISIL supply routes, reducing US military presence near the Russian territory (Turkish NATO bases), etc.

 

[Laura]

You know, watching Erdogan gives sometimes the impression that he's a psychopath. I've even said so myself on a number of occasions. But I'm beginning to wonder just a bit.

One reason that makes me wonder is all his whining about people defaming him. Well, that looks pretty silly to most of us (me included) but then, I started thinking about it and realized that a psychopath simply wouldn't care.

Then, there is his bodacious statements here and there and his seeming weathervane positions. Is that evidence of psychopathy or someone under a LOT of pressure from various sides, finding that there is almost no one he can trust, descending into paranoia, etc?

 

[Laura]

Check out these items archived on sott.net

From 12 March:
https://www.sott.net/article/314219-Erdogan-conundrum-Triggers-for-military-coup-in-Turkey

25 March:
https://www.sott.net/article/315279-US-Europe-will-give-no-sympathy-for-Erdogan-in-event-of-a-military-coup

30 March:
https://www.sott.net/article/315481-US-evacuating-military-and-civilian-personnel-from-Turkey-over-security-concerns

31 March:
https://www.sott.net/article/315533-Turkeys-Armed-Forces-dismiss-allegations-of-planning-for-a-government-coup

https://www.sott.net/article/315768-Throwing-Turkey-to-the-wolves-Erdogan-is-the-new-Milosevic-Saddam

So this certainly didn't come out of the blue. And the way it was "advertised" and the way the US pulled military and civilians out of there, they certainly knew.

Then, the French closing their consular doors just a few days ago. So, yep, NATO/US/CIA knew what was up and prolly because they were in the thick of it.

And after March, what happened? Might be useful to observe Erdogan's maneuvers too, to see what was on his mind.

 

[T.C.]

You know, watching Erdogan gives sometimes the impression that he's a psychopath. I've even said so myself on a number of occasions. But I'm beginning to wonder just a bit.

One reason that makes me wonder is all his whining about people defaming him. Well, that looks pretty silly to most of us (me included) but then, I started thinking about it and realized that a psychopath simply wouldn't care.

Then, there is his bodacious statements here and there and his seeming weathervane positions. Is that evidence of psychopathy or someone under a LOT of pressure from various sides, finding that there is almost no one he can trust, descending into paranoia, etc?

So, we're dealing with someone on the schizoidal spectrum?

Schizoidia, or schizoidal psychopathy, was isolated
by the very first of the famous creators of modern psychiatry.
From the beginning, it was treated as a lighter form
of the same hereditary taint which is the cause of susceptibility
to schizophrenia. However, this latter connection could neither
be confirmed nor denied with the help of statistical analysis,
and no biological test was then found which would have been
able to solve this dilemma. For practical reasons, we shall discuss
schizoidia with no further reference to this traditional
relationship.

Literature provides us with descriptions of several varieties
of this anomaly, whose existence can be attributed either to
changes in the genetic factor or to differences in other individual
characteristics of a non-pathological nature. Let us thus
sketch these sub-species’ common features.

Carriers of this anomaly are hypersensitive and distrustful,
while, at the same time, pay little attention to the feelings of
others. They tend to assume extreme positions, and are eager to
retaliate for minor offenses. The roundup of
journalists as an example. Sometimes they are eccentric and
odd. Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality
leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations
upon other people’s intentions. They easily become involved in
activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict
damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological
worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding
human nature. We frequently find expressions of their
characteristic attitudes in their statements and writings: “Human
nature is so bad that order in human society can only be
maintained by a strong power created by highly qualified individuals
in the name of some higher idea.” Let us call this typical
expression the “schizoid declaration”. His push to create
the supreme presidential role.

Human nature does in fact tend to be naughty, especially
when the schizoids embitter other people’s lives. When they
become wrapped up in situations of serious stress, however, the
schizoid’s failings cause them to collapse easily. The capacity
for thought is thereupon characteristically stifled, and frequently
the schizoids fall into reactive psychotic states so similar
in appearance to schizophrenia that they lead to misdiagnoses.

The common factor in the varieties of this anomaly is a dull
pallor of emotion and lack of feeling for the psychological
realities, an essential factor in basic intelligence. This can be
attributed to some incomplete quality of the instinctive substratum,
which works as though founded on shifting sand. Low
emotional pressure enables them to develop proper speculative
reasoning, which is useful in non-humanistic spheres of activity,
but because of their one-sidedness, they tend to consider
themselves intellectually superior to “ordinary” people.

The quantitative frequency of this anomaly varies among
races and nations: low among Blacks, the highest among Jews.
Estimates of this frequency range from negligible up to 3 %. In
Poland it may be estimated as 0.7 % of population. My observations
suggest this anomaly is autosomally hereditary.

A schizoid’s ponerological activity should be evaluated in
two aspects. On the small scale, such people cause their families
trouble, easily turn into tools of intrigue in the hands of
clever and unscrupulous individuals, and generally do a poor
job of raising children. Their tendency to see human reality in
the doctrinaire and simplistic manner they consider “proper” –
i.e. “black or white” - transforms their frequently good intentions
into bad results. However, their ponerogenic role can
have macrosocial implications if their attitude toward human
reality and their tendency to invent great doctrines are put to
paper and duplicated in large editions.

 

[Keit]

And after March, what happened? Might be useful to observe Erdogan's maneuvers too, to see what was on his mind.

Yeah, maybe he will spill the beans on what NATO/US/CIA has been up to. That would be interesting. Although Russians see him as a megalomaniac, they don't exclude the possibility of him aligning and "choosing the winning side", i.e. Russia, and then out of spite selling out his former masters.

 

[Cosmos]

You know, watching Erdogan gives sometimes the impression that he's a psychopath. I've even said so myself on a number of occasions. But I'm beginning to wonder just a bit. [...]

Same here, I'm still not sure where exactly to put him. One thing seems to be sure though, he seems to get a lot of pressure.

What we do know is that turkey is under tight grips of NATO (gladio and all that) for decades. NATO has done its utmost there to control and create terror. That is mostly do to the geopolitical keyrole turkey plays both in europe and towards the east.

Daniele Ganser explained in his book about gladio, how severe and big the role of those secret NATO armies and infiltration is in turkey, and has been for decades. From all the countries in europe and near by, turkey seemes to be one of the countries under the most pressure from those secret agencies and their infiltrating networks.

 

[Laura]

You know, watching Erdogan gives sometimes the impression that he's a psychopath. I've even said so myself on a number of occasions. But I'm beginning to wonder just a bit.

One reason that makes me wonder is all his whining about people defaming him. Well, that looks pretty silly to most of us (me included) but then, I started thinking about it and realized that a psychopath simply wouldn't care.

Then, there is his bodacious statements here and there and his seeming weathervane positions. Is that evidence of psychopathy or someone under a LOT of pressure from various sides, finding that there is almost no one he can trust, descending into paranoia, etc?

So, we're dealing with someone on the schizoidal spectrum?

No, I'm not even suggesting a personality disorder so much as a person who is normal/wounded like everyone, in a certain position where all kinds of people and energies act on that person and they are not stable enough inside to withstand the pressures and they just kind of go nuts.

 

[Mr.Cyan]

No, I'm not even suggesting a personality disorder so much as a person who is normal/wounded like everyone, in a certain position where all kinds of people and energies act on that person and they are not stable enough inside to withstand the pressures and they just kind of go nuts.

Thanks Laura for the food for thought concerning Erdogan; been thinking about it since I read your post, and I really too am not sure at this point.

Thinking back to the past, couple of points stand out to me, that make me think that he is a psychopath:
1. His reactions/actions right after the downing of the Russian SU-24 - then again he could have been under strict guidance from his "masters".
2. His family being involved in the sale of illegal ISIS smuggled oil, as exposed on RT

However when watching the videos of the coup on RT, in the videos, there were lots of people on the street resisting the attempted coup (even trying to stop tanks by lying on the road), and being jubilant when the attempt failed.

Then there was also Putin's statement after the downing of the jet - where he clearly mentioned that Turkey "backstabbed" Russia. Knowing that he understands psychopathy, and with the information he had on Erdogan from the FSB - maybe he was surprised as well at Erdogan's actions ?

Also, as you pointed, psychopaths actually don't care what people say or think about them.

Well I'm not sure, and I guess Erdogan's actions/reactions in the coming weeks will tell us more.

 

[T.C.]

No, I'm not even suggesting a personality disorder so much as a person who is normal/wounded like everyone, in a certain position where all kinds of people and energies act on that person and they are not stable enough inside to withstand the pressures and they just kind of go nuts.

Thanks Laura for the food for thought concerning Erdogan; been thinking about it since I read your post, and I really too am not sure at this point.

Thinking back to the past, couple of points stand out to me, that make me think that he is a psychopath:
1. His reactions/actions right after the downing of the Russian SU-24 - then again he could have been under strict guidance from his "masters".
2. His family being involved in the sale of illegal ISIS smuggled oil, as exposed on RT

However when watching the videos of the coup on RT, in the videos, there were lots of people on the street resisting the attempted coup (even trying to stop tanks by lying on the road), and being jubilant when the attempt failed.

Then there was also Putin's statement after the downing of the jet - where he clearly mentioned that Turkey "backstabbed" Russia. Knowing that he understands psychopathy, and with the information he had on Erdogan from the FSB - maybe he was surprised as well at Erdogan's actions ?

Also, as you pointed, psychopaths actually don't care what people say or think about them.

Well I'm not sure, and I guess Erdogan's actions/reactions in the coming weeks will tell us more.

Yes, I've been 'trying on' the idea, Laura. It makes my brain hurt! I think he's an evil S.O.B.

I get the idea that an essential psychopath wouldn't care about being ridiculed. But he's such a sick, murderous, dictatorial, genocidal maniac that, for me, he must be a characteropath.

 

[Eol]

I think it was a badly done US/NATO/CIA maneuver - organized in a hurry.

Yeah, Russian analysts say that either the coup was badly organized, and it shows that US completely lost control over Turkey and Middle East, or they reached some sort of agreement with Erdogan. In any case, they all say that Erdogan probably knew about the upcoming coup and that's why decided to "apologize" to Russia. Some also mention the connection to clandestine organisation Ergenekon, and its direct connection with Mossad.

Maybe Putin warned Erdogan and he was prepared to deal with it and slapped CIA/NATO/USA.

Thanks. It's a very interresting idea about the sudden and surprisingly turn over between the Turkey and Russia relationship. Instead of viewing this as a sort of act of Erdogan's reason, it might just be an attempt to continue keeping his position of power, now because of the US threat. We start to know a little bit the man and I think that all the decisions he undertakes are just directed in a self way, to secure his position, definitely not for the sake of his people.

 

[bozadi]

Although I was hesitant if this was a theater set up by Erdogan himself, I more tend to think that the PTB was behind the unsuccessful coup especially through Gulen's men in the army and in many other departments of the Turkish State.

Although I hate most of the policies and actions of Erdogan's AKP, I was happy for the coup's failure because it was not based on popular will. It is such a surprising and actually great thing that "ordinary people" made a military coup fail. Such an unprecendent and invaluable example in such a country. Although this public action was led by pro-AKP people instead of anti-AKP ones, it is still priceless and even many opponents of the AKP took part in the "live" protests against the coup. The president of the main opposition (the CHP) leader, Kilicdaroglu, spoke against the coup when the coup was on-going.

But now Erdogan is much stronger. Two main possibilities I think. If he maintains and even escalate his desire for a Hitler-like fascist rule, then it is bad news. But if he is really fed up with the pressures by the PTB and sincerely decides to side more with the bloc led by Russia, that's good news. Even he chooses the second way, I don't think he can rapidly declare it because then he will face a fast and serious opposition from a significant part of his public supporters, jihadists in and around Turkey and, maybe most importantly, from the PTB. If he trusts Putin and fully open to his guidance, then Erdogan might find a possible route for such State-wide conversion, which would be so good for the nation, regardless of the price, which has been being paid anway.

I think Erdogan will be slow and not declare a political deviation. But will he actually be turning his coat yet again? We will need to wait and see the clues. I'm most sure that Erdogan is an OP and although the extraordinarily strong support that he enjoys has been degenerating him, the same might also be helping him rapidly develop or awaken his soul. He's probably exploring and going between the STS and STO possibilities. His "naivety" combined with the authority of a State's rule and his support base cause him to be extremely narcissistic, want to annihilate any opponents, and also behave in very unexpected ways at some critical junctions. His formidable narcissism and unexpectedness appear to seriously annoy his apparent controllers.

It will be very interesting to watch the developments.

 

[Alana]

Although I was hesitant if this was a theater set up by Erdogan himself, I more tend to think that the PTB was behind the unsuccessful coup especially through Gulen's men in the army and in many other departments of the Turkish State.

Yes, the thought that it was all staged by Erdogan crossed my mind. He does come out the whole thing more powerful, with excuses to become even more dictatorial, and I wouldn't put it past him. But I think that Western powers were behind it. And what makes this belief stronger is that the events in Turkey followed the events in Nice, another attack that seems of Western-secret-powers origin to me, due to Hollande's recent talks about Russia.

Hollande saying nice things about Russia -> Nice attack
Erdogan cozying up to Russia -> Coup attempt

If so, the western reality creators were very busy yesterday!

Although I hate most of the policies and actions of Erdogan's AKP, I was happy for the coup's failure because it was not based on popular will. It is such a surprising and actually great thing that "ordinary people" made a military coup fail. Such an unprecendent and invaluable example in such a country. Although this public action was led by pro-AKP people instead of anti-AKP ones, it is still priceless and even many opponents of the AKP took part in the "live" protests against the coup. The president of the main opposition (the CHP) leader, Kilicdaroglu, spoke against the coup when the coup was on-going.

I agree that if this coup accomplishes the unification of the Turkish people, then it is a great thing and a shooting in the foot for those who created it. Another thought I had last night when I heard the news was that there are already US forces that work towards the destabilization of Europe and Germany in particular. So a destabilization of Turkey would bring the destabilization of Europe - and Germany in particular - because the number of refugees that enter Europe will then go even way higher.

But now Erdogan is much stronger. Two main possibilities I think. If he maintains and even escalate his desire for a Hitler-like fascist rule, then it is bad news. But if he is really fed up with the pressures by the PTB and sincerely decides to side more with the bloc led by Russia, that's good news. Even he chooses the second way, I don't think he can rapidly declare it because then he will face a fast and serious opposition from a significant part of his public supporters, jihadists in and around Turkey and, maybe most importantly, from the PTB. If he trusts Putin and fully open to his guidance, then Erdogan might find a possible route for such State-wide conversion, which would be so good for the nation, regardless of the price, which has been being paid anway.

I agree with you on both points. Erdogan is now at a crossroads and if he makes the right choice he might save his country and his people, and like Pierre mentions, the whole area (Europe, Russia, Middle East). Even if he makes the right choice because he cares for keeping his position and for his own behind.

I think Erdogan will be slow and not declare a political deviation. But will he actually be turning his coat yet again? We will need to wait and see the clues. I'm most sure that Erdogan is an OP and although the extraordinarily strong support that he enjoys has been degenerating him, the same might also be helping him rapidly develop or awaken his soul. He's probably exploring and going between the STS and STO possibilities. His "naivety" combined with the authority of a State's rule and his support base cause him to be extremely narcissistic, want to annihilate any opponents, and also behave in very unexpected ways at some critical junctions. His formidable narcissism and unexpectedness appear to seriously annoy his apparent controllers.

It will be very interesting to watch the developments.

Indeed and thank you for sharing, I was looking forward for a perspective from a member who lives in Turkey. My mind is doing extreme gymnastics to understand what happened and why.

I am not ready to like Erdogan yet (whatever his constitution or issues are), and he will need to start making some really wise decisions soon, because a fall of Turkey is going to have a domino effect of huge proportions and very bad outcomes on the whole world I think. Then I might reconsider him. Oh, and especially when he stops murdering Kurdish people and destroying their villages.

 

[seek10]

It was obvious that whoever scripted this coup, didn't consider the people' reaction on Friday late evening. Probably they thought, capturing some buildings and shutting down facebook, twitter is suffice to break the communication to people. Spontaneous reaction of Large crowd against 1000 soldiers spread across the country with small gadgets is nothing and these soldiers seems to have not resisted much. As Joe mentioned, lack of clear head/leader basically saying that orders are coming from outside. even now, there is no clear head.

If we look at the timelines , with in 2 hours erdogan on the social media. By the time, F-16 shot down( 3 hrs into coup) helicopter attaching the parliament, every thing is over and script writers backed down, leaving the coup followers at the mercy of population on the streets. Probably, they expected the dragging down of crisis (as in Ukraine )to change the public perception or script it as fits them. I think Turkish people are fed up with military coups, so they ( at least Erdogan followers) preferred what ever they have in democracy rather than keep quite.

If thousand or two can take hostage of the country, this tells how vulnerable country is. Coup threat may be over for now,next time when it happens, it will be worse. With 'deep state' intact, it can happen again and it will be swift next time. Nothing has changed for Erdogan geopolitically( he may become more stronger, but that doesn't change any thing unless he leans for the multi polar side i.e. more coups are expected). Let's see what will happen, but US seems to have lost face.

 

[neema]

Although I was hesitant if this was a theater set up by Erdogan himself, I more tend to think that the PTB was behind the unsuccessful coup especially through Gulen's men in the army and in many other departments of the Turkish State.
...

I also thought about Erdogan setting it up himself to consolidate power.

One thing that worries me is if this was a failed coup by the “empire of chaos”, they are going to be more desperate and even more brash.

 

[taratai]

Let's jump a step ahead. Erdogan won, coup failed. Erdogan increases his power. Everybody calls him a dictator. But Erdogan now supports Russia.

See? We told you! PUTIN IZ EVULZ. Only a bad, bad person would ally with a bad, bad Erdogan!
What, Erdogan was "good" before that? Nah, that never happened!