Location, location, location

[Arwenn]

This for me is the million $$ question. I don't feel part of the social collective where I live. I perceive the social collective here as insular, mean and narrow-minded. It's a stunning part of the world geographically- endless pristine beaches, lakes, whales, dolphins etc. It's nice to be able to breathe fresh air, and live within a 10 minute radius to work, and schools.

It is an interesting dichotomy to me then, that the people here are so mean spirited. What is valued here is conformity- there is no celebrating differences. Even though most of the 10K population here consists of retirees aged anywhere from 60+ years, that have moved from the city, there is a pervasive small-town narrow mindedness that feels so stifling. Most are of Anglo-Saxon extraction, with a handful of families of other nationalities, and say 15% indigenous Aboriginal Australians. They are also way more comfortable or accepting of people that fit a stereotype (& I don't!). An example would be enrolling my children in school and presenting them with a conscientious objection to vaccination form (I chose not to vaccinate and had to get paperwork signed off by a GP)- they had NEVER seen one of those before! Another example is not being married. Another is dressing up (which I do for work, or else I look like the work-experience girl).

So where to from here? I wish I knew. I am not looking at moving for 'safety', because as the Cs say its not where you are, but who you are & what you see, that's important. I just want to be where I feel I belong.

 

[luc]

This for me is the million $$ question. I don't feel part of the social collective where I live. I perceive the social collective here as insular, mean and narrow-minded. It's a stunning part of the world geographically- endless pristine beaches, lakes, whales, dolphins etc. It's nice to be able to breathe fresh air, and live within a 10 minute radius to work, and schools.

It is an interesting dichotomy to me then, that the people here are so mean spirited. What is valued here is conformity- there is no celebrating differences. Even though most of the 10K population here consists of retirees aged anywhere from 60+ years, that have moved from the city, there is a pervasive small-town narrow mindedness that feels so stifling. Most are of Anglo-Saxon extraction, with a handful of families of other nationalities, and say 15% indigenous Aboriginal Australians. They are also way more comfortable or accepting of people that fit a stereotype (& I don't!). An example would be enrolling my children in school and presenting them with a conscientious objection to vaccination form (I chose not to vaccinate and had to get paperwork signed off by a GP)- they had NEVER seen one of those before! Another example is not being married. Another is dressing up (which I do for work, or else I look like the work-experience girl).

So where to from here? I wish I knew. I am not looking at moving for 'safety', because as the Cs say its not where you are, but who you are & what you see, that's important. I just want to be where I feel I belong.

Hello Arwenn,
I can relate very much to your thoughts. I relocated myself last year, and I had to try really hard not to fall into the "I need to move for safety" trap. We tried to be open to as many options as possible, and we ended up at a place I would've never considered! Funny how the universe works.

That being said, I think it's important to remember that life is all about lessons, as the C's said. So maybe this is a more productive way of looking at it: What are my lessons now, at this time and place? I think once you are ready, the universe will present new opportunities to learn, maybe involving relocation, maybe not.

Another point: I think I understand what you say in terms of your community being narrow-minded. However, maybe you could look at it from another perspective and ask yourself: Aren't there interesting people in your area that you can find common ground with, even if they are not doing the Work and are not 100% aligned with the knowledge that you have? I mean, okay, someone doesn't know about the dangers of vaccination, but how can you blame him/her, given the state of medicine and the media? Or, someone doesn't like certain dresses, or thinks that one should be married - does that make him/her a bad person entirely? There are good people out there who have a good core, even if it is often muddied by a lot of programs, and I think it's crucial to learn to discern who's who, which of course is not that easy, and to improve one's social skills and external consideration.

I know for sure that I've fallen into the black-and-white-thinking trap a lot after finding this place, kind of "who is not 100% collinear with the work here is totally bad and must be avoided", which actually prevented me from forming meaningful relationships with other people and thus being able to help, when asked, or just to practice my social skills, empathy and external consideration. I don't know if that's the case with you, I just thought that it may be worth thinking about in that context.

 

[Minas Tirith]

That being said, I think it's important to remember that life is all about lessons, as the C's said. So maybe this is a more productive way of looking at it: What are my lessons now, at this time and place? I think once you are ready, the universe will present new opportunities to learn, maybe involving relocation, maybe not.

Yes, when the door is supposed to open, it will do so.

There are good people out there who have a good core, even if it is often muddied by a lot of programs, and I think it's crucial to learn to discern who's who, which of course is not that easy, and to improve one's social skills and external consideration.

I would say this also depends on how "they" act towards you. If you are the outcast and there is a lot of judgement towards a single dressy mother with an interest alternative therapies, I'm not sure if I would want to stay and constantly bite my way through. If I remember correctly that's also why Loreta moved to the Canaries and I could totally understand ...

If something emotional is also coming from "them" and if it is just a question of personal lifestyles, that's different.

Another idea is to try to get into contact with like-minded people where you are...I don't know how remotely you live, Arwenn, but maybe there are other unmarried people with kids and your interests out there?

M.T.

 

[luc]

Another idea is to try to get into contact with like-minded people where you are...I don't know how remotely you live, Arwenn, but maybe there are other unmarried people with kids and your interests out there?

That was the sort of idea I was getting at. However, I agree with you Minas Tirith, if the environment is really systematically hostile and it just doesn't work, this may require other ideas, including perhaps relocation. One thing I learned though while in the process of relocation myself is that there really is no escape from lessons - I think if one is aware of that, doesn't expect a miracle from relocation and has realistic expectations, it can work!

 

[ajseph 21]

Relocation has been on my mind too lately and I've been thinking of it in ways of preparation like 1) could a new area help me learn the skills necessary to help myself and others for the upcoming events 2) could a new area put me closer to people on the network and other like minded people and 3) am I moving for just an escape or new challenges? So I would say what are the inner motivations behind the desire to relocate and are they sound reasons?

 

[Arwenn]

That being said, I think it's important to remember that life is all about lessons, as the C's said. So maybe this is a more productive way of looking at it: What are my lessons now, at this time and place? I think once you are ready, the universe will present new opportunities to learn, maybe involving relocation, maybe not.

Yes, when the door is supposed to open, it will do so.

There are good people out there who have a good core, even if it is often muddied by a lot of programs, and I think it's crucial to learn to discern who's who, which of course is not that easy, and to improve one's social skills and external consideration.

I would say this also depends on how "they" act towards you. If you are the outcast and there is a lot of judgement towards a single dressy mother with an interest alternative therapies, I'm not sure if I would want to stay and constantly bite my way through. If I remember correctly that's also why Loreta moved to the Canaries and I could totally understand ...

If something emotional is also coming from "them" and if it is just a question of personal lifestyles, that's different.

Another idea is to try to get into contact with like-minded people where you are...I don't know how remotely you live, Arwenn, but maybe there are other unmarried people with kids and your interests out there?

M.T.

Thank you for your replies, guys. When I first moved here, I did my best to integrate in my community-I made friends with other mothers at the school (catching up for coffee, meeting at each others' houses, taking children to the park etc). I joined the P&C at my kids' school, and applied for and was succesful in getting funding to improve the amenties and learning outcomes for the students. It even won me an award for Parent of the Year (they did not like that one bit). Suffice it to say that my perception was that they felt threatened by me.

Bit by bit, I discovered some rather insidious pathology (1 lady I later discovered to be an alcoholic, pathological liar & narcissist), and basically superficial people, who are not interested in the deeper aspects of life. I soon noticed that they derived pleasure from gossip, excluding people, superficial pursuits & much to my horror (yeah, I can be naive) swinging and having affairs. I decided that I would rather read a book than have to pretend and exchange meaningless social platitudes, so I have become a bit reclusive.

There is a lady who is a school teacher, who seems to have intelligence & awareness, and I enjoy my conversations with her (we only catch up every 6-8 weeks though). I have a colleague that I was dating for a while, & we have remained good friends and have similar viewpoints. I have a few friends outside of this town, but I don't travel as often as I'd like. And as I interact act with the public as part of my profession, I really need to protect my privacy here, so I am very choosy as to who I associate with.

I sometimes think that maybe I am the problem, that I have stereotyped these people. But given that I did spend some time with these families, and most are of the same ilk, I think they would rather stay asleep. Being here is the ultimate test in external considering. The thing is, there isn't anywhere else that has grabbed me as an alternative place to live. So for the moment, I am focusing on reading and interacting with the forum regularly and getting my diet in order.

 

[Arwenn]

Relocation has been on my mind too lately and I've been thinking of it in ways of preparation like 1) could a new area help me learn the skills necessary to help myself and others for the upcoming events 2) could a new area put me closer to people on the network and other like minded people and 3) am I moving for just an escape or new challenges? So I would say what are the inner motivations behind the desire to relocate and are they sound reasons?

Hey ajseph,

Yes interesting questions indeed. I guess as a member of the FOTCM, you could network on a more face-to face level with members nearby (I'm not too sure on the rules there). And as for moving to escape or seek challenges, that's really only something that you can answer. Developing skills because it's something that you would love to do, might be a better motivation than feeling you need to do it in order to be prepared; as has been said before, it's not where you are, it's who you are and what you see that will matter (the Cs).

For me, moving is about finding genuine people, & feeling accepted. If my FRV is such that I'm still meant to be in 3D, then so be it, there are lessons to be learned and if I'm not ready to graduate then that's the way it is. I had the thought that as I change dynamics within myself (e.g. diet and breathing, networking) maybe moving will not be necessary, & my external dynamics will change. And like a domino effect, one small change leads to another and so on, before you know it, you have actually changed your reality.

 

[edgitarra]

I recommend a region where it can be of great safety. It is in Romania, situated anywhere around Hunedoara and Alba county(central-west of Rom). These places are surrounded by mountains, and the seismic activity is extremely rare. It is also one of the most natural places in Europe. I can recommend a video that presents the zone, even though it is not related to the safeness, but to the ecosystem and resources.
This is where I will definitely go when things get worse.

Link that shows videos from around this zone and other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwAy1qQT9i0

This is info about Alba County
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_County

This is info about Hunedoara County
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunedoara_County

Hope this helps. I am not promoting Romania, but since I used to live there(now I live in Denmark), I have an idea about the place.

 

[loreta]

Sometimes we will never be part of anywhere, but it is important, I think, to try to look and find a place where we can be more our-selves. I lived 5 years in a village that was living in the 50's, it was horrible. Now, far away, I see how horrible it was. (but also, thanks to that solitude I was able to think about many things, and I found Sott.net because of my solitude...). How come a woman like me was living in a village like that? Surrounded by nature but with people that was ignorant of nature, hated animals, thought that just money was important and loved to criticize and judging everything? It is important to look and try to find somewhere where you can find people that can be more open minded if that is important for you. It is for me. It take a lot of energy to make the change, but when enough is enough! and help come in various forms, from outside you and inside you. Some friends of me, two, helped me to make the move lending me money and encouragements. And a strange energy inside me was there to do all the change.

Change is not escaping, on the contrary. Sometimes staying in a place is escaping. ;)

 

[Arwenn]

Sometimes we will never be part of anywhere, but it is important, I think, to try to look and find a place where we can be more our-selves. I lived 5 years in a village that was living in the 50's, it was horrible. Now, far away, I see how horrible it was. (but also, thanks to that solitude I was able to think about many things, and I found Sott.net because of my solitude...). How come a woman like me was living in a village like that? Surrounded by nature but with people that was ignorant of nature, hated animals, thought that just money was important and loved to criticize and judging everything? It is important to look and try to find somewhere where you can find people that can be more open minded if that is important for you. It is for me. It take a lot of energy to make the change, but when enough is enough! and help come in various forms, from outside you and inside you. Some friends of me, two, helped me to make the move lending me money and encouragements. And a strange energy inside me was there to do all the change.

Change is not escaping, on the contrary. Sometimes staying in a place is escaping. ;)

Gosh loretta, you sound like you went through just what I am! Thanks for chiming in. I have been feeling this desire for a change in community for some time now, and then I find all the excuses to stay-my work, the kids are settled, better the devil I know etc etc. The thing is, I am not drawn to any other place, anywhere. I feel like if I was to move right now, my problems may just follow me- I may be surrounded by even more shallow people. What if what I've noticed about the people here in my community (the superficiality, conformity and myopia regarding the plight of the world) is the norm? And then again, maybe that's just another excuse! ;)

 

[ajseph 21]

Thanks Arwenn and Loreta for your posts because they are very clear and offer sound advice. I do agree that staying put can be an escape into like a comfort zone instead of taking life into your own hands. As far as doing what you love to do, well that's a tough one cuz I'd love to do so much! Where to begin? That's where where the Work and self mastery come in because these come first. On a side note living in the countryside may be better for the sake of simplicity. Cities are pretty hectic.

 

[luc]

Thanks everyone for the very interesting discussion.

Change is not escaping, on the contrary. Sometimes staying in a place is escaping. ;)

Yes, I think this absolutely applies for many. For others, though, I feel there can be a sense of "escapism", especially if fear is the primary motivation. It really depends on the specific situation, so I'm glad there are so many thoughts from different perspectives on this thread.

loreta, I followed your story, and it's very encouraging. Interestingly, when we relocated last year, it was mainly because we were fed-up with the big city and we wanted to be in a more rural place. But it's not such a small village in the middle of nowhere where we ended up, but a "big village" (2500 inhabitants) not that far from major cities (in Germany, there are only very few truly rural areas left anyway). We love it here, since it is closer to nature, there are some great folks here, but you also have a degree of anonymity, it's not that everyone knows everyone and feels inclined to watch and judge you all day long, as seems to be the case in many smaller villages.

I think it's also a good exercise to always be open to change, including relocation, no matter where you are, and even if you are somewhat happy with your current living situation. You never know which opportunities will arise, and if you feel it's time to move, and you can do it, why not make it work?

Fwiw, and thanks again for all the input.

 

[Gaby]

For those considering moving from their current country, and who do not have European residency rights, this might be interesting for you.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235318/Spain-offers-residency-buying-home-worth-130-000-bid-save-housing-market.html

Spain Plans To Offer Residency Papers With Every Home Over 160k

A new plan was disclosed today by the Spanish Trade Ministry Secretary, Jaime Garcia-Legaz. Aimed at helping the stagnated property market, the plan is to offer permanent Residency to foreigners who buy a house or apartment valued over 160,000 euros ($200,000).

[...]

Here is another possibility, which I don't know what to make of yet:

Many Seek Spanish Citizenship Offered to Sephardic Jews

_http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/world/europe/many-seek-spanish-citizenship-offered-to-sephardic-jews.html?_r=0

The Spanish government has been flooded with thousands of inquiries about legislation it approved last month that will grant dual citizenship to descendants of Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain more than 500 years ago, the country’s justice minister said on Wednesday.[...]

The list of approved official surnames was published here:

_http://www.parainmigrantes.info/listado-de-apellidos-sefardies-para-la-nacionalidad-espanola-958/

The list of surnames is ginarmous! And actually, my surname is listed and the timing coincides with the emigration of my family from Spain.

I don't know what is up with that, but fwiw.

 

[davey72]

I may have the choice to live in Thailand in the near future. I am curious if anyone has any thoughts regarding how things might be in Thailand during an ice age?

 

[loreta]

Thanks everyone for the very interesting discussion.

Change is not escaping, on the contrary. Sometimes staying in a place is escaping. ;)

Yes, I think this absolutely applies for many. For others, though, I feel there can be a sense of "escapism", especially if fear is the primary motivation. It really depends on the specific situation, so I'm glad there are so many thoughts from different perspectives on this thread.

loreta, I followed your story, and it's very encouraging. Interestingly, when we relocated last year, it was mainly because we were fed-up with the big city and we wanted to be in a more rural place. But it's not such a small village in the middle of nowhere where we ended up, but a "big village" (2500 inhabitants) not that far from major cities (in Germany, there are only very few truly rural areas left anyway). We love it here, since it is closer to nature, there are some great folks here, but you also have a degree of anonymity, it's not that everyone knows everyone and feels inclined to watch and judge you all day long, as seems to be the case in many smaller villages.

I think it's also a good exercise to always be open to change, including relocation, no matter where you are, and even if you are somewhat happy with your current living situation. You never know which opportunities will arise, and if you feel it's time to move, and you can do it, why not make it work?

Fwiw, and thanks again for all the input.

Luc, I am sorry to have taken time to answer to your comments. I agree with you, it is very important to be always ready for change. That means we are ready to grow because change is always learn something new, from us and from others. The ideal place is to live in a relatively small community where you feel the sense of community and be near a city for anything you need. For now me I am very happy to live in a city but I know that a city is a city and nothing is perfect. But after 5 years in a too small community where nothing was available to live in a city, and in that case a very sympathetic city, beautiful and gentle, is a very interesting change. I still feel alone because I don't have a family nor many friends yet, but I know that I can go anywhere by foot. To be able to take a bus is something I like, not depend on my car. Little things like this are welcome. To go to the grocery at the corner of my apartment, to have a library near home and participate in a lecture club. But as I said, a city is a city and I love nature. I miss nature even if in this city there are many beautiful parks.

Movement is good, change, new things to discover, new people, new cultures and ways of live.

The only negative about my move is that I am still living in Spain. Spain is no good. But for now is here were I live. And no more money to move, for now, elsewhere.