Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

wodasi

Jedi Master
from _http://psychicfocus.blogspot.com/

Focus Sessions
Thursday, July 17, 2014
Malaysian Flight MH17 - Plane Shot Down Over Ukraine
I just heard about this and was compelled to do a quick reading....
Q. What happened to flight MH17? Who and why was this shot down?
A. As I focus on this I get that Russia didn't shoot this down, but rather it was shot down by Ukraine (possibly the US, but I want to say Ukraine with US military support). I get this plane was the shell of the MH370 disguised as MH17. I see that the Chinese had some kind of technology aboard that would prove very harmful if it got into the opponents hands (cloaking or technology of some kind- very advanced technology that I associate with ETs- but no ET involvement occurred with regard to this explosion). I see this plane was in disguise and in route back into "civilization" with this technology aboard. The Ukraine (again maybe US, but I want to say Ukraine) received intel with almost absolute confirmation that this passenger plane was housing this detrimental technology.

The Ukraine (backed by the US) could not let this (the disguised plane and technology) get out of its state of isolation, and made a very tough call, but the plane was shot down.

Q. How did this plane transform to the MH17 and get into circulation? How did it get on the manifest, etc...?
A. I have to tune more into this, but at a quick glance I get some kind of swap occurred. A different plane was swapped out for this "prepped" plane and flown into circulation. I also get something very strange with the pilots of the MH17. I get the impression that they were not physically in full control of this plane.
Q. Where are the MH370 passengers?
A. I get they are in a "holding" area. It looks like a huge factory or building from the outside located in the middle of a desert area. I get they aren't sure what to do with them, or when they will be released. I want to know if they will be harmed, and that still seems unclear. It was like the plan for the MH370 was so clear and completed with such precision, but there are parts that feel disorganized or things changed along the way making the "plan" go off track.
Russia is upset, and China is furious. I also get that the world is blaming the wrong people, which further escalates the tensions.
And that is all I have for this quick reading. Thank you.
As a side note, when I completed this reading and put it all online I got a thought that Malaysia is working with China on something, but couldn't get past the surface without really focusing... It feels like an unusual conspiracy..
I have read alot of her older posts and some mirrors the C's
 

Alana

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This was posted on UK's Mirror online today. I am not sure what to make of it, I can't find much on the internt about the “Order of the Ŝaranskoj Revolutions, Organ of the Central Committee of Liberty Creative Games conscience”. Can someone who speaks Russian have a look?

But it was the video below that impressed me (btw, go to original for pictures and tweets):

Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash: Did bizarre Russian tweet posted last month predict disaster?

_http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-mh17-plane-crash-3883544#ixzz37vX7q5hI


A tweet has emerged appearing to be an eerie forewarning that a passenger plane would be shot down.

The mysterious message was posted online a month before Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was downed over Ukraine with 295 people on board .

The somewhat cryptic tweet reads: "Soon to be shot down over the ruins of the liner packed full of innocent euro-tourists. Tse will be the occasion for the official invitation to NATO. So I see. "

It came from an account called News of the CPSU which describes itself as the “Order of the Ŝaranskoj Revolutions, Organ of the Central Committee of Liberty Creative Games conscience”.

But this is not the only reported prediction of the air disaster.

In a video posted on YouTube, a controversial Nigerian preacher called TB Joshua is shown urging his congregation to pray for Russia and warning that “they should take care of their airspace.”



https://youtu.be/nPSu5Koibys?rel=0

Earlier this year, Buddhist Feng Shui master Thean Y Nang predicted Malaysia would have very bad luck and severe natural disasters and "human hazards”.

The famous Malaysian Chinese astrologer previously correctly predicted the 9/11 attacks and the 2008 Sichuan earthquake, the International Business Times reports .

In a book published in January called, he claimed the country’s luck in 2014 would “oscillates between negative and extremely bad, with many obstacles in its path”.

He explained this was due to a star called San Bi, meaning three jade, which represents enormous loss of wealth and human life.
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
The downing of this plane doesn't make much sense in terms of the end goal!

Russia wouldn't do it because it'd just be silly! The only angle they can go on is pro-russian rebels and even this doesn't make much sense... why shoot down a civilian airplane? So this is silly. No one will believe it let alone work to do whatever it is those who are against russia want done! Russia is not Libya or Syria...

If it's US-backed rebels, then well again, what is the advantage beyond raising the propaganda on Russia? But to what end? The more they apply pressure on Russia, the more Russia excels... to me the conflict on Russia should just be aborted... If they can't take down Syria, they can't take down Russia. Simple.

The timing with what is happening in Palestine seems to be very strange. It acts to divert attention away.

But still... all very strange.
 

Laura

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In the recently released 1st volume of the Cs' transcripts, annotated, there is this passage and my notes:

Ukraine explosion; chemical or nuclear. [1] Hawaii crash; aviation, possibly involving military. [2] More California seismic activity after 1st of year: San Diego, San Bernardino, North Bakersfield, Barstow: all are fracture points. Hollister, Palo Alto, Imperial, Ukiah, Eureka, Point Mendocino, Monterrey, Offshore San Luis Obispo, Capistrano, Carmel: these are all stress points of fracture in sequence. “Time” is indefinite. Expect gradual destruction of California economy as people begin mass exodus. [3] Also, Shasta erupts; Lassen activity. Ocean floor begins to subside. [4]

[1]: If you want to look at this metaphorically, you could say that there has already been an important “explosion” in Ukraine in terms of the recent political events (1st half of 2014). However, there is still the possibility of a nuclear explosion there what with the psychopaths running the U.S., the EU, and NATO. What I do find interesting is that this came first as though it were some sort of “marker” event. When you take that in the context of the discussion of the “realm border” and “convergence point” following, it seems that we may, indeed, be on the verge of some dramatic changes.

[2]: Considering the many years in advance that this set of marker events was forecast, I’m wondering if the “Hawaii crash” might not refer to the missing Malaysian jetliner, Flight 370, that disappeared pretty much at the same time that Ukraine was going off?

[3]: Based on the “after first of year” qualifier, and if this goes with the ‘set of markers,’ perhaps it is yet to come?

[4]: This is particularly interesting considering what the Gulf Breeze Six included in their predictions, which I included with the November 6 1994 session. You might want to check them for comparisons. Obviously, their dates are way off, but still, there is something!

[5]: If these are marker events, and Ukraine is the big one, I guess we can wait and see on this one.
Earlier in the book I discuss the problems of prophecy, especially prophesying many years in advance coupled with the abstract nature of transdensity communications. But looking now at this new Malaysian (Pacific region as is Hawaii) crash "possibly involving military" for sure, it just makes me wonder.

I do think these are marker events.
 

Lumiere_du_Code

Jedi Council Member
Possibility of Being said:
Most likely BS. All that crap comes from one source with no evidence whatsoever.

Just think, how come the Internet been flooded with that 'revelation' given it was a 'top secret' operation? It reminds me another recent story about a NATO plane secretly landing in Kiev loaded with amphetamine and Polish mercenaries of a military company led by a Polish mister. How secret it was! And that company as it was identified was nonexistent for years according to official records and was not a military one but some kind of financial advisory. They just make stuff up out of thin air.

Secondly, "Mazury First Artillery Brigade" doesn't exist anymore, it was renamed a few years ago. Taken from Wikipedia not updated entry? Thirdly, why on the earth would Polish troops go to Ukraine through Odessa if they have a much shorter and simpler route through the Polish-Ukrainian land boarder? How could they even get there?

Here is one reasonable piece (in Russian) about that rumor, suggesting that IF there is any truth to that arrival it would be rather Georgian equipment:
_http://ukraina.ru/news/20140717/1009857770.html

I think, there is a lot of disinformation coming from Ukrainians and their supporters, whoever they are, because the coup gov/military is losing terribly and they desperately need some big propaganda and lip service to keep the people in fear and under control. So don't trust everything you can find on the Internet. :)

certainly, I don't do it :) I mentioned it as a stream of the most loud statements of the second half of day on July 17. there it is obvious that mass media create a resonance for people, adjusting them on inevitable input of interventionists as the junta in every way tries to reach that.
 

Lumiere_du_Code

Jedi Council Member
axj said:
Now, according to Wikipedia:
Malaysia Airlines released a statement saying "it received notification from Ukrainian ATC that it had lost contact with flight MH17 at 1415 (GMT) at 30 km (19 mi) from [the] TAMAK waypoint (47°51′24″N 39°13′6″E[53]), approximately 50 km (31 mi) from the Russia–Ukraine border."[54]

So the video with the "admission" was still posted 12 hours before the crash.

Some people claim that Youtube is notorious for showing inaccurate video creation times or that there is some bug there as well. To me, it does not make sense that Youtube would show a creation date that is at least 12 hours before it was actually created.

yes, I already saw information on it in Russian. nevertheless, it is surprising that the time difference makes almost twenty-four hours.
 

Lumiere_du_Code

Jedi Council Member
Laura said:
Ukraine explosion; chemical or nuclear. [1] Hawaii crash; aviation, possibly involving military. [2] More California seismic activity after 1st of year: San Diego, San Bernardino, North Bakersfield, Barstow: all are fracture points. Hollister, Palo Alto, Imperial, Ukiah, Eureka, Point Mendocino, Monterrey, Offshore San Luis Obispo, Capistrano, Carmel: these are all stress points of fracture in sequence. “Time” is indefinite. Expect gradual destruction of California economy as people begin mass exodus. [3] Also, Shasta erupts; Lassen activity. Ocean floor begins to subside. [4]

[1]: If you want to look at this metaphorically, you could say that there has already been an important “explosion” in Ukraine in terms of the recent political events (1st half of 2014). However, there is still the possibility of a nuclear explosion there what with the psychopaths running the U.S., the EU, and NATO. What I do find interesting is that this came first as though it were some sort of “marker” event. When you take that in the context of the discussion of the “realm border” and “convergence point” following, it seems that we may, indeed, be on the verge of some dramatic changes.

[2]: Considering the many years in advance that this set of marker events was forecast, I’m wondering if the “Hawaii crash” might not refer to the missing Malaysian jetliner, Flight 370, that disappeared pretty much at the same time that Ukraine was going off?

[3]: Based on the “after first of year” qualifier, and if this goes with the ‘set of markers,’ perhaps it is yet to come?

[4]: This is particularly interesting considering what the Gulf Breeze Six included in their predictions, which I included with the November 6 1994 session. You might want to check them for comparisons. Obviously, their dates are way off, but still, there is something!

[5]: If these are marker events, and Ukraine is the big one, I guess we can wait and see on this one.
Earlier in the book I discuss the problems of prophecy, especially prophesying many years in advance coupled with the abstract nature of transdensity communications. But looking now at this new Malaysian (Pacific region as is Hawaii) crash "possibly involving military" for sure, it just makes me wonder.

I do think these are marker events.
in fact, a chemical explosion in Ukraine has recently occurred - on the gas transit route the pipe was blown up.
considering the radical and extremist forces of junta and intention of the Kiev werewolves to pass to the American nuclear fuel for nuclear power plants, the likelihood of recurrence of Chernobyl is very high. All experts have warned that Soviet power stations can not use any other material for reactors as it is very dangerous and unpredictable.

really, just it also is necessary for U.S. - the maximum not stopping chaos in the region. global planetary revolution as mentioned C's.
 

Avala

Dagobah Resident
Possibility of Being said:
Keit said:
Yeah, that's him. And I agree, very reasonable. Don't know if you saw that one, but later they talked with another expert, where they showed pictures of the wreckage and talked how the holes look like holes that were made by "air-to-air" missiles, and not "surface-to-air" ones. They also mentioned whitnesses, that supposedly saw other planes following the Malaysia Ailines. On the other hand, this expert said, that at this height (over 10 km) it's not possible to see anything more than plane's contrail, so witnesses account is questionable.
It makes much more sense to me. I don't understand why everybody is talking about Buk when there were (if it's true) two jet fighters up there flying side by side with the B777. This kind of surface-to-air missile would be easily visible when launched, not only for locals but also for many various tracking systems around the globe. Also, if it had hit the plane, there would most likely have been a smoke trail, or even two - from the missile and from the shot down plane. Why not to use the fighters to damage the plane in a way it falls down "by itself" leaving almost no traces of what's been done? It doesn't make sense to me. So why the whole Buk story? Likely because that's the only way they can try and blame the 'separatists' (and Russia), no matter how weak the narrative is.

As a side note, coincidentally, there were apparently two NATO planes in the air at the time of the crash flying somewhere between Poland and Romania...
_http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741356

BRUSSELS, July 18. /ITAR-TASS/. A total of two jets of the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) were on combat duty in the airspace over Romania and Poland Thursday at the moment the Boeing 777 jet of the Malaysian Airlines crashed in highly controversial circumstances in eastern Ukraine, a NATO source told ITAR-TASS. [...]
Could be done with the air to air missile. The question is what is the straight line distance from that point to Donbas? Problem is that it would be highly visible on radars in surrounding countries.
 

Siberia

Ambassador
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Possibility of Being said:
Keit said:
Yeah, that's him. And I agree, very reasonable. Don't know if you saw that one, but later they talked with another expert, where they showed pictures of the wreckage and talked how the holes look like holes that were made by "air-to-air" missiles, and not "surface-to-air" ones. They also mentioned whitnesses, that supposedly saw other planes following the Malaysia Ailines. On the other hand, this expert said, that at this height (over 10 km) it's not possible to see anything more than plane's contrail, so witnesses account is questionable.
It makes much more sense to me. I don't understand why everybody is talking about Buk when there were (if it's true) two jet fighters up there flying side by side with the B777. This kind of surface-to-air missile would be easily visible when launched, not only for locals but also for many various tracking systems around the globe. Also, if it had hit the plane, there would most likely have been a smoke trail, or even two - from the missile and from the shot down plane. Why not to use the fighters to damage the plane in a way it falls down "by itself" leaving almost no traces of what's been done? It doesn't make sense to me. So why the whole Buk story? Likely because that's the only way they can try and blame the 'separatists' (and Russia), no matter how weak the narrative is.
Yes, the Buk version seems weak to me for many reasons too. Here is a good article in Russian explaining in detail why it is unlikely that it was Buk or even S-300 (whoever was operating it, if any). It says that the Buk accuracy is about 60 percent, which implies that at least two missles are usually launched. Besides, they leave very dense smoke trail which is visible for about 10 minutes. The article also suggests that B777 could very well be shot down by the fighter jet, indeed.
 

Possibility of Being

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Siberia said:
Yes, the Buk version seems weak to me for many reasons too. Here is a good article in Russian explaining in detail why it is unlikely that it was Buk or even S-300 (whoever was operating it, if any). It says that the Buk accuracy is about 60 percent, which implies that at least two missles are usually launched. Besides, they leave very dense smoke trail which is visible for about 10 minutes. The article also suggests that B777 could very well be shot down by the fighter jet, indeed.
Pretty good and reasonable article, thank you Siberia for the link. Would you mind translating it for SOTT?
 

Siberia

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Possibility of Being said:
Siberia said:
Yes, the Buk version seems weak to me for many reasons too. Here is a good article in Russian explaining in detail why it is unlikely that it was Buk or even S-300 (whoever was operating it, if any). It says that the Buk accuracy is about 60 percent, which implies that at least two missles are usually launched. Besides, they leave very dense smoke trail which is visible for about 10 minutes. The article also suggests that B777 could very well be shot down by the fighter jet, indeed.
Pretty good and reasonable article, thank you Siberia for the link. Would you mind translating it for SOTT?
Sure, I'll post the translation here as soon as it's ready. :)
 

Niall

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axj said:
Rebel Leader Gives Bizarre Account of Plane Crash
_http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rebel-suggests-malaysia-plane-victims-long-dead-24622107

MOSCOW — Jul 18, 2014, 2:23 PM ET

A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

<snip>

Girkin, also known as Strelkov and allegedly a former Russian military intelligence agent, said he couldn't confirm the information. But it's sure to add to the intense emotions surrounding the crash, with the rebels accused of shooting down the plane.

Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."

He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.
It's interesting that they're giving voice to Girkin's claims (or claims put in Girkin's mouth)... while reporting that Girkin allegedly claimed responsibility for bringing the plane down:

Igor Girkin / Igor Strelkov: Commander of Donetsk People’s Army Says Group Shot Down Malaysia Airlines MH17?

The Epoch Times
18 July 2014

Russian-backed separatist leader Igor Girkin (who also goes by the name of Strelkov) has claimed credit for shooting down Malaysia Airlines MH17.

The plane went down over eastern Ukraine near the border of Russia. It took off from Amsterdam and was headed to Kuala Lumpur.

“The plane has just been taken down somewhere around Torez (Donetsk Oblast). It lays there behind the Progress mine. We did warn you – do not fly in ‘our sky,’” he said through his account on VK, the Russian version of Facebook, reported the Kyiv Post.

The Progress mine refers to the mining town of about 80,000 people.


Caption: Self-proclaimed Prime Minister of the pro-Russian separatist ‘Donetsk People’s Republic’, Alexander Borodai (C), and ‘Donetsk People’s Republic’ self-proclaimed Defence Minister, Igor Strelkov (L), deliver a press conference in Donetsk on July 10, 2014. (AFP Photo)

“And here is the video proving another ‘bird’ falling down. The bird went down behind the slagheap, not in the residential district. So no peaceful people injured. There is also information about another plane shot,” he added.

Stelkov and his group, the Donetsk People’s Army, apparently mistook the plane for a Ukrainian army plane.

The Donetsk People’s Republic had boasted on June 29 that they took over a Ukrainian military base that had Buk ground-to-air missiles, but wouldn’t say how many, according to the Post.


Caption: A portrait of Igor Strelkov, military commander of pro-Russian fighters with other unidentified fighters is featured on a billboard reading “300 Strelkov’s people” paraphrasing the 300 Spartans, in Konstantinovka, eastern Ukraine, Thursday, June 12, 2014. (AP Photo/Evgeniy Maloletka)

The Buk missiles can travel up to 25 kilometers (15 miles), three times the altitude MH17 was flying.

Anton Gerashchenko, an advisor at Ukraine’s Ministry of Internal Affairs, says that he caught a photograph on the ground just minutes after the Buk missile was fired.

A launcher similar to the Buk missile system was seen by Associated Press journalists earlier Thursday near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne, which is held by the rebels.

Other sources are reporting that the rebels are denying that they are responsible. ”This could happen only if it was a fighter jet or a surface-to-air missile (that shot it down),” one rebel, who gave his name as Sergei, told Reuters, adding that the rebels don’t have weapons capable of shooting down a plane at such a height.


Caption: Commander and self-proclaimed minister of Defence of so the called ‘Donetsk People’s Republic’ Igor Girkin, aka Strelok (C), congradulates Arsen Pavlov (R), a field commander of the so called ‘Donetsk People’s Republic’, and his bride Elena Kolenkina (L), during their wedding in Donetsk on July 11, 2014. (AFP Photo)

And Girkin himself was quoted by pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday as saying he was told by people at the crash site that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Strelkov said he couldn’t confirm the information. But it’s sure to add to the intense emotions surrounding the crash, with the rebels accused of shooting down the plane.

Girkin said “Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness.”

He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.

Strelkov, the leader of the Donetsk People’s Army, works for the Russian military agency GRU, according to BBC, citing the Ukrainian security service. Russian media says that he is a retired officer of the Russian Federal Security Service. He was born in 1970 and is a registered citizen of Moscow. He has been active in the region for decades.


Caption: People walk amongst the debris at the crash site of a passenger plane near the village of Hrabove, Ukraine, Thursday, July 17, 2014. Ukraine said a passenger plane carrying 295 people was shot down Thursday as it flew over the country. (AP Photo/Dmitry Lovetsky)

His group has combat experience fighting for the Russian armed forces in Chechnya, Central Asia, Yugoslavia, Iraq, and Syria, he told Russia’s Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper. He himself took part in conflicts in Yugoslavia.

“He is also said to be a military enthusiast who specializes in historical re-enactment and staged recreations of battles,” it reported.

A Girkin Facebook group, which appears to be filled with fans of the commander, has the following slogan: “We have defeated the nazis, we will defeat the neo-nazis.”

In it, group members post stories about Strelkov’s recent success in Ukraine.


Caption: A man gestures at a crash site of a passenger plane near the village of Hrabove, Ukraine, Thursday, July 17, 2014. (AP Photo/Dmitry Lovetsky)

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko called the downing an act of terrorism and called for an international investigation into the crash. He insisted that his forces did not shoot down the plane.

Girkin said, also on Friday, that eight of the 12 black boxes were found in scattered wreckage.

But separatist leader Aleksandr Borodai says “no black boxes have been found … We hope that experts will track them down and create a picture of what has happened.”

Meanwhile, U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Friday that the United States cannot rule out that Russia helped in the launch of the surface-to-air missile that shot down a Malaysian Airlines jet over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board.

Power said the U.S. believes the plane was likely downed by an SA-11 missile fired from an area in eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists. She said Russia has provided SA-11s and other heavy weapons to the separatists.


Caption: Wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 after it was shot down near Shaktarsk, Ukraine. (AFP Photo)

The Malaysian jet was flying at a cruising altitude of 33,000 feet (10,000 meters) from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on an established flight corridor when it was shot down Thursday, she said.

Power said that early Thursday a Western reporter reported an SA-11 system in separatist-controlled territory near Snizhne, “and separatists were spotted hours before the incident with an SA-11 SAM system close to the site where the plane came down.”

“Separatists initially claimed responsibility for shooting down a military transport plane, and claimed responsibility and posted videos that are now being connected to the Malaysian Airlines crash,” Power said. “Separatist leaders also boasted on social media about shooting down a plane, but later deleted these messages.”

“Because of the technical complexity of the SA-11, it is unlikely that the separatists could effectively operate the system without assistance from knowledgeable personnel. Thus, we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems,” she said.


Caption: A man covers a body with a plastic sheet near the site of a crashed Malaysia Airlines passenger plane near the village of Rozsypne, Ukraine, eastern Ukraine Friday, July 18, 2014. Rescue workers, policemen and even off-duty coal miners were combing a sprawling area in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border where the Malaysian plane ended up in burning pieces Thursday, killing all 298 aboard. (AP Photo/Dmitry Lovetsky)

Power said Ukraine also has SA-11 missiles but the United States is not aware of any in the area where the plane was shot down.

She said the downing of the Malaysian airlines jet also follows a pattern of attacks on aircraft by the separatists in June and very recently on Monday and Wednesday.

“If indeed Russian-backed separatists were behind this attack on a civilian airliner, they and their backers would have good reason to cover up evidence of their crime,” Power told the council. “Thus it is extremely important than an investigation be commenced immediately.”

Power called for a cease-fire by Russia, pro-Russian separatists and Ukraine so investigators can immediately get to the site.


Caption: United States U.N. Ambassador Samantha Power speaks during a U.N. Security Council meeting at United Nations headquarters, Friday, July 18, 2014. Britain’s U.N. Mission says it requested an emergency meeting after Thursday’s downing of a Malaysia Airlines plane carrying 298 people over eastern Ukraine. (AP Photo/John Minchillo)

Russia’s U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin did not respond to the U.S. allegations but called for an international commission to investigate the crash.

He asked why Ukraine allowed civilian aircraft to fly over an area where military clashes and airstrikes were taking place, and where anti-aircraft systems were operating, and called on investigators to also determine whether Ukraine met its international obligation to ensure the safety of the flying public and “prevent disasters from occurring.”

“Today, Kiev declared a full closure of the airspace in the conducting of the so-called anti-terrorist operation,” Churkin said. “Why couldn’t this have been done earlier, not later when (there were) hundreds of victims?”

Ukraine’s U.N. Ambassador Yuriy Sergeyev reiterated that the downing of the Malaysian airliner would not have happened if Russia did not provide sophisticated anti-aircraft systems to the rebels.


Caption: A photo showing the footprint of the Buk missile that allegedly took down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17. (Anton Gerashchenko)

He said that intercepted telephone conversations between rebel leaders and a Russian military intelligence colonel “confirms the terrorists are standing behind this crime,” stressing that immediately after the crash, a rebel military leader boasted in social media of shooting down what he thought was a Ukrainian jet.

Sergeyev said communications and intercepts, photos and videos indicate that the rebels have at least two SA-11 missile systems, also known as Buk. He added that detained “terrorists,” including two Russian citizens who were going to join the rebels, confessed that the Buk system arrived from Russia.

The entire Security Council called for “a full, thorough and independent international investigation, in accordance with international civil aviation guidelines, and for appropriate accountability.” It stressed the need for “immediate access by investigators to the crash site to determine the cause of the incident.”

At the start of Friday’s emergency meeting, all diplomats in the crowded council chamber rose to their feet and bowed their heads in silent tribute to those who died.


Caption: In this October 2008 photo provided by AMC Amsterdam on Friday, July 18, 2014, former president of the International AIDS Society Joep Lange is seen. A large number of world-renowned AIDS researchers and activists heading to an international AIDS conference in Australia were on board a Malaysian jetliner that was shot down over Ukraine, officials said Friday, as news of their deaths sparked an outpouring of grief across the global scientific community. Among them was Joep Lange, a well-known researcher from the Netherlands (AP Photo/Peter Lowie/AMC)

Ambassadors from all countries with passengers on the flight — Netherlands, Malaysia, Australia, Indonesia, United Kingdom, Germany, Belgium, Philippines, Vietnam, Canada, New Zealand and the United States — all spoke, demanding an independent investigation and calling for the perpetrators to be brought to justice.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon offered the “full cooperation” of the U.N. in an international investigation, saying it must be “full and transparent” and anyone responsible must be brought to justice, U.N. deputy spokesman Farhan Haq said. Ban said the International Civil Aviation Organization has offered to put together an international team.

U.N. political chief Jeffrey Feltman, who briefed the council, expressed hope for “a serious and sustained effort to end the fighting and concentrate positively on Ukraine’s future.” He said Ban has asked him to return to Kiev and Moscow in the coming days to promote peace efforts.

The Kremlin said Russian President Vladimir Putin “informed the U.S. president of the report from air traffic controllers that the Malaysian plane had crashed on Ukrainian territory” without giving further details about their call. The White House confirmed the call, with President Barack Obama calling the crash a “terrible tragedy.” Britain has asked for an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Ukraine.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Note also that Samantha Power here introduces yet another missile system, which she acknowledges all parties in the conflict have! So much for that initial certainty about BUK...

The Epoch Times, by the way, is a dedicated anti-Chinese government propaganda outlet based in NYC.
 

StrangeCaptain

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
This is just very sad and confusing. I think I am repeating Luke's thoughts here... But it makes no sense for Russia itself to have done this. There is no purposeful reason for the Ukrainian resistance to have done this. The only reason for the Ukrainian new government forces ot have done this would be to create a sort of publicity attack on Russia.

I am thinking this really could be an accident, and it is the worst possible accident that could happen.

In any case, this does illustrate why exactly the American, cold war, covert operations machine has just got to stop. Well... It does not HAVE to stop, but how many times has this meddling spiraled out of control now either in the short- or long-term.
 

Siberia

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Ambassador
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Siberia said:
Possibility of Being said:
Siberia said:
Yes, the Buk version seems weak to me for many reasons too. Here is a good article in Russian explaining in detail why it is unlikely that it was Buk or even S-300 (whoever was operating it, if any). It says that the Buk accuracy is about 60 percent, which implies that at least two missiles are usually launched. Besides, they leave very dense smoke trail which is visible for about 10 minutes. The article also suggests that B777 could very well be shot down by the fighter jet, indeed.
Pretty good and reasonable article, thank you Siberia for the link. Would you mind translating it for SOTT?
Sure, I'll post the translation here as soon as it's ready. :)
Here it is (I translated the whole article except for the diagram and photo descriptions as they don't seem to be important):

Lenta.ru; 02.30 pm; July 18, 2014

by Vasiliy Sychov

Out of the area of responsibility

Was Malaysian Boeing shot down by Ukrainian Buk?


Passenger Boeing 777 2H6ER of Malaysia Airlines crashed in Ukraine near the village Grabovo 50 kilometers from the Russian border. All 283 passengers and 15 crew members were killed in the plane crash. Shortly after becoming aware of the accident, many sources suggested that B777 was hit by anti-aircraft missile system. Media also quoted eyewitnesses who said that Malaysian plane was shot down from the board of Su-25 by the Ukrainian Air Force.

The flight

Malaysian passenger plane, registration number 9M-MRD, KLM flight KL4103, took off from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur at 02.14 pm Moscow time on July 17, 2014. At about 04:20 pm Moscow time, when the plane was already over the territory of Ukraine, the contact was lost with it. It is known that, approximately 50 kilometers away from the Russian border, the liner began to descend, but whether it was the cause of damage to the aircraft or change of scheduled tier before moving from one country’s airspace to another, is not yet clear. Later, B777’s wreckage and bodies of passengers have been found near the village of Grabovo in the Donetsk region.

According to the State Air Traffic Service Enterprise of Ukraine (the "UkSATSE") responsible for the maintenance of passenger vessels in Ukrainian airspace, the flight of Malaysian Boeing was performed in accordance with the flight rules, without any technical faults. According to the UkSATSE CEO Dmitry Babeychuk, pilots of the KLM flight KL4103 did not report any problems. The last maintenance of the liner was held on July 11, 2014. The plane was flying at an altitude of 10.6 thousand meters, which is 2.7 thousand meters higher than the height of the official curfew imposed by the Ukrainian authorities on July 8 this year.

The radius of scattered debris of the crashed Boeing 777 is at least fifteen kilometers. This suggests that the plane began to fall apart literally in the air at high altitude. The nature of the damage to be defined by analyzing the craft wreckage is yet unknown. The fact that the Malaysian liner fell on the territory of Ukraine was reported at about 07.00 pm Moscow time. Shortly thereafter, Ukraine, Russia and Ukrainian militia began to accuse each other of the crash. In particular, Russian president Vladimir Putin blamed solely Ukraine for the accident; the president of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko accused militias; while the latter accused the official Kiev authorities.

It is interesting that both Ukrainian authorities and militia announced that the airliner was shot down by anti-aircraft missile system. Anton Gerashchenko, adviser to the Ukrainian minister of internal affairs, said that the plane was shot down by the "terrorists" who were using the "Buk anti-missile system kindly furnished to them by Mr. Putin." That complex was allegedly located near the Torez town. In turn, the RIA Novosti news agency, by citing its own sources among the militia reported that shortly before the fall of B777, the Armed Forces of Ukraine deployed a division of Buk system to the Donetsk region and started preparing for deployment of another such division to the area.

Next day, on July 18, 2014, Russian Defense Ministry announced that 27 launchers of Buk-M1 complex of the 156th air defense missile regiment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were deployed on the north-western outskirts of Donetsk. According to the Russian Defense Ministry, complexes of this type are capable of detecting air targets at ranges of up to 160 kilometers and hit them at all altitudes at a distance of over 30 kilometers. An indirect confirmation of the fact that Malaysian airliner was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile is a large area of debris dispersal. However, this fact cannot be used as the evidence; it requires a variety of other data to prove this version.

The Buk

The version that Malaysian B777 airliner was shot down by Buk or Buk-M1 (the later versions are Buk-M1-2 and Buk-M2 were developed after the USSR collapse and were not supplied to the Ukraine) suffers a number of weaknesses, which make whole hypothesis look doubtful. According to the Ukrainian and Russian media, many people witnessed the fall of Malaysian aircraft who, among other things, stated that the plane was shot down by Su-25 bearing the Ukrainian identifying marks. The ability of the human eye to discern the type and identity of the aircraft at an altitude of ten thousand meters is out of the question, of course.

Another point is interesting here. Any Buk anti-aircraft system missile, by virtue of its design features, leaves a distinct smoke trail, which can stay visible in the air up to ten minutes. However, within several hours no testimony of such trail appeared. They began to appear only in the afternoon of July 18. In particular, the Ukrainian RKM portal posted a photo of a smoky anti-aircraft missile trail allegedly shot at Malaysian Boeing. Reliability of that photo is unknown, but according to the RKM, it was given by Gerashchenko, who specified that the missile was launched from the third district of Torez town.

It should be noted that for Buk-M1 systems capable of recognizing such targets as a plane, a helicopter or a ballistic missile, the probability of hitting a major air aerodynamic target is 60-70 percent. This is one of the reasons why at least two consecutive missile launches are required to hit an aircraft. This means that such anti-aircraft missile launch must have witnesses. The exact information on whether such launch took place can only be provided via the objective means of control, such as Voronezh-DM radar data in Krasnodar territory or control systems in the Rostov region of Russia.

In addition, the Buk-M1 complexes in their full composition, that is, together with the station for detection and targeting and a command vehicle, are capable of destroying air targets at altitudes up to 18,000 meters and at ranges up to 25 kilometers. These parameters are strongly dependent on the height and speed of the aircraft detected by the radar system. A full set of these machines are only available to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. However, if 27 launchers of Buk-M1 are located on the outskirts of Donetsk, as claimed by the Russian Defense Ministry, then the Malaysian plane was probably out of their reach.

At the end of June 2014, Donetsk militia announced the capture of A-1402 air-defense military unit. According to the Ukrainian authorities, the whole battle-capable equipment was removed from there before the capture. But militias claimed that the Buk complex came at their disposal. Later a number of photos have been published in the network showing that the Donetsk militias have at least one Buk-M1 self-propelled firing unit. It can be used as an independent combat unit to attack air targets, but without a system for detection and targeting it can only reach a height of six thousand meters maximum.

On July 18, 2014, Vitaly Yarema, the prosecutor general of Ukraine, reported to president Poroshenko that the militias did not capture Buk or S-300 complexes and have no such weapons. According to various sources, the Ukrainian army now has 34 S-300V1/PS anti-aircraft missile complexes. Their technical characteristics allow shooting down targets at a height of more than ten thousand meters, but the positions of these complexes are fixed, and the tools to detect and classify targets allow easily distinguishing civil and military aircrafts.

In the case of C-300, if the plane was shot down by a missile of this complex, we can talk about the deliberate shelling of B777. However, in this case it is unknown where exactly the fire could come from. Meanwhile, the Russian Defense Ministry announced on July 18, that the day before, the Russian radio equipment registered the work of Kupol radar of the Buk-M1 complex located near the Styla village. It is located about 35 kilometers from Donetsk and 80 kilometers from the Grabovo village where the Malaysian Boeing fell. Up to November 2013, Ukraine had S-200B complexes, but no reliable information about them is yet available.

Conclusions

At present, no sufficient data is available to make at least approximate conclusions about what happened in the sky of Donetsk region. Militia announced that they had found the flight data recorders from the board of Malaysian B777 and were willing to give them to the Interstate Aviation Committee for decryption. Flight recorders will clarify what happened onboard of the passenger liner before the disaster. Careful examination of the wreckage also will allow determining whether he was shot down. But even if the damage allows speaking about the plane being shot down by a rocket, and determining the type of rocket, it will be virtually impossible to find out where it was launched from.

Finally, even if it turns out that the plane was struck by a rocket, it will be absolutely impossible to determine who exactly launched it. Both Buk and S-300 complexes are equipped with the systems of combat operation parameters registration, the data from which will allow saying with a high degree of certainty whether that particular complex was used to crash the Malaysian aircraft. But the probability that the militias, Ukrainian or Russian military (according to one of the versions, the plane was shot down by Russian S-300 located in the Rostov region) will provide the international commission with access to the data from their anti-aircraft weapons, is next to zero.

The net result is that some complexes were indeed located in Donetsk area. All the rest information must be investigated by the international commission, which should be composed of representatives of all the countries concerned. Meanwhile, passenger flights over the territory of Ukraine are officially prohibited.
 

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Siberia said:
Here it is (I translated the whole article except for the diagram and photo descriptions as they don't seem to be important):
Thank you! It's up:
http://www.sott.net/article/282272-Out-of-the-area-of-responsibility-Was-Malaysian-Boeing-shot-down-by-Ukrainian-Buk

:)
 
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