Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

[Lumiere_du_Code]

Ukrainians themselves confirm:

"Terrorists have seized military equipment defense Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk.
This military reported to the President Peter Poroshenko after downing aircraft over the Donetsk region, told the Ukrainian Prosecutor General Vitaly Yarema truth.

"After having been hit by a passenger plane, the military reported to the President that the terrorists have our missile systems" Buk "and C300. Grab those weapons was not" - said in comments Yarema Ukrainian truth after NSDC.

First Defense Ministry refuted information released citing unofficial sources about the alleged capture of terrorists anti-aircraft missiles defense parts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk region.

"Press and Information Office of the Ministry of Defence announced that on June 29 the decision of the commander of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and military machinery of antiaircraft missile regiment in Donetsk were quickly relocated to a certain place. On the territory of the military control was only an old and unusable automotive electronics, that the military even more incapacitated. eventually terrorists entered the territory of the "- said in a statement the Ministry of Defense."

http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2014/07/18/7032278/
---

from Ukrainian news:
18:00 - junta claims that militia received Russian anti-aircraft systems "Buk"
18:09 - in the area of ​​anti-terrorist operations fell airliner.

__

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

Statement of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

"In view of the objective investigation of the crash of the Boeing 777, which crashed on the territory of Ukraine, it is necessary to conduct a thorough investigation with the involvement of all interested international organizations - says the document. - According to the Russian Defense Ministry in the disaster area are members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, having armed with anti-aircraft missile systems of "Buk-M1." So near the northwestern margin of Donetsk divisions deployed 156 anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, with twenty-seven launchers complex Buk M1. These complexes in their tactical and technical characteristics are able to detect air targets at ranges up to 160 km and hit them at all altitudes at a range of over 30 km. Moreover, in the skies over the Donetsk region are constantly fighting the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft equipped with different types of missiles. It is an undeniable fact.

Statements of official Kiev that these complexes or aircraft did not spend aerial gunnery, raise serious doubts. In such a short time so unequivocal conclusion in terms of fierce fighting in this area can be done. Such responsible statements that involve serious legal consequences, require full investigation.

In connection with the emerging all sorts of insinuations concerning actions of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in the border regions of Ukraine, declare that:

July 17 air defense of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in the area did not work.

Aircraft Air Force in Russia Russian regions bordering the Donetsk region, on July 17 this year, flights are not performed.

This information is fully confirmed by means of objective control.

Please note that the Boeing 777 flight carried outside the air defense systems of the Russian Federation. And was in Ukrainian airspace under the control of its air traffic management system.

Urge the international community to conduct a thorough investigation of the maximum opening the crash."

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1807889

 

[Laura]

Malaysian Boeing:

Russian President aircraft:

---



"Inside" of the "Communist Party" - the text in the screenshot:

"Soon over the Ruin (so called Ukraine) will be brought down an airliner fully loaded innocent euro-tourists. It will be an occasion for an official invitation to the NATO invasion. So I can see."

look at the date of "inside" - exactly one month ago, the evening of June 17

---



The U.S. State Department considers it premature to call the perpetrators of the crash of Boeing
"I do not want to speculate on this subject, for obvious reasons," - said Psaki. Answering the question whether Washington believes that the type of missile used that militias could get from Russia, State Department spokesman said that "there is no evidence that this is the cause of the crash."


yesterday's roundup of on Boeing:
http://ria.ru/incidents/20140717/1016429277.html

So, the CIA was involved, using their cyberwarfare techniques, planting fake stuff in advance. Kinda like that Xineohpoel guy who "predicted" 9-11 a week or two in advance and then disappeared from the web.

 

[Laura]

While you can't see the plane come down, I would think if there was an explosion in the sky as mentioned then there would have been more of a smoke trail or something in the video.

This is also what I wondered about, why there was no smoke and at least not on this video, though maybe there was or is just a movie interpretation. However it came down it will be used against Russia.

At least I heard two or three days ago on the radio that now people also have the possibility to hack planes.

This is actually an interesting idea. Remember the reports recently of the Russian aircraft that messed up the electronics of US Navy ships? (Can somebody find the story?) Well, if they (the Russians) have (something like) that, you can be sure the CIA has it too and probably helped Ukraine with it. That would explain why there was no explosion in the air. The electronics were simply scrambled and the plane fell like a rock.

Thus, all the nonsense about missiles, whether ground-to-air or air-to-air, is just confusion.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

- Ideally, Boeing had to hang on to the territory of the Russian Federation to completely write off the blame from the junta (not held 50 km).

- Boeing shot down July 17, the day of the constitution of Korea. What is a classic handwriting Americans. Game dates. That is a reference to the Korean Boeing 1983.

- As in the case of the "Korean Boeing" about 300 dead, just plane flew into the closed area for civil aircraft.

- Boeing during this first flight rerouted. Previously, he was flying away from the combat zone.

- Immediately after the crash Boeing Ukrainian Interior Ministry urges NATO to begin a ground operation against the militia:

Advisor to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine after the collapse of Zorian Shkiryak Malaysian Boeing aircraft in the east of the country called the United States and NATO to help the Ukrainian military in charge of special operations against the militias. "The United States should immediately provide us with modern precision weapons and support from the air, ground and NATO to begin a military operation to protect".
http://russian.rt.com/article/41305

Poroshenko BEFORE the crash said the strategy shifts the Armed Forces of Ukraine - a possibility and necessity of participation of foreign troops in the punitive operations in the Новороссия (NewRussia).
-----

now the questions:

- downed aircraft was not alone in the sky (maybe it was the SU-25) - look here:
https://vine.co/v/MQ6mtpj3iae

- Why is the exact number of dead passengers and crew reported Ukrainians (although none of the officials have not been on the scene), but not in Malaysia or the Netherlands???

- all the passports of passengers in one case were lying. And the whole passport, not charred.
(according to the version of the U.S. media:
One such passport September 11, 2001 fell out of the pocket of the Arab terrorists AND! - Voila - successfully passed the explosion of the plane and the WTC towers, as well as all that was after and because collapse WTC, safe and unharmed reached the hands of police ... In order to assist in the investigation ...)

- Applying logical reasoning... air defense system "Buk" - a set of medium-range missiles. The affected area, even for a modernized version - no more than 50 km. This means that the plane was flying at an altitude of 10 km at a speed of over 800 km / h, could be in the affected area not more than a few minutes. From this it follows that the complex SAM appeared suspicious, which is in the right place at the right time, and this should at least know the trajectory and time of the flight, which suggests that, if the plane was actually shot down, and the presence of intent provocation, and the suspects in this case are obvious.
and a modernized complex, but still needed him radar detection and illumination.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

detailed discussion on all Russian here (Kate or Siberia can see maybe something else they will be used to supplement):

http://aftershock.su/?q=node/244450
http://aftershock.su/?q=node/244501
http://aftershock.su/?q=node/244427

from the comments:
Actually, not very important, it was carelessness or they are specifically Ukrainians staged provocation.
Because it is quite understandable reaction ... uh .. "international community" have already expressed by the Australian Prime Minister, because that plane was lot of Australians, he could not remain silent. He also demanded an explanation from the Ukrainians do not, and Putin - because, they say, is your missiles used there, and then you will be guilty. And that air traffic controllers in Kiev while quietly send planes in combat zone, this will not be mentioned on any channel, except in passing - that Putin allegedly tried unsuccessfully to "prevaricate". So that sanctions will eventually strengthen and deepen.
And a half-year course investigation finds that the rocket allowed the Ukrainians, but who cares about this will be the case, the technology is quite inconvenient facts oblivion worked in the same Syria, where finally acknowledged the presence of chemistry Islamists, well, but in this sense has no already...

 

[Beau]

This is actually an interesting idea. Remember the reports recently of the Russian aircraft that messed up the electronics of US Navy ships? (Can somebody find the story?) Well, if they (the Russians) have (something like) that, you can be sure the CIA has it too and probably helped Ukraine with it. That would explain why there was no explosion in the air. The electronics were simply scrambled and the plane fell like a rock.

Thus, all the nonsense about missiles, whether ground-to-air or air-to-air, is just confusion.

That was back in April. I found this article about it:

Russian Su -24 scores off against the American "USS Donald Cook"

Russian Sukhoi Su -24 with the newest jamming complex paralyzed in the Black Sea the most modern American combat management system "Aegis" installed on the destroyer "USS Donald Cook". Pavel Zolotarev, Deputy Director, Institute of USA and Canada, shares details about this version which is being actively discussed in the Russian media and by bloggers.

US destroyer "Donald Cook" with cruise missiles "Tomahawk" entered the neutral waters of the Black Sea on April 10. The purpose was a demonstration of force and intimidation in connection with the position of Russia in Ukraine and Crimea. The appearance of American warships in these waters is in contradiction of the Montreux Convention about the nature and duration of stay in the Black Sea by the military ships of countries not washed by this sea.

In response, Russia sent an unarmed bomber Su- 24 to fly around the U.S. destroyer. However, experts say that this plane was equipped with the latest Russian electronic warfare complex. According to this version, "Aegis" spotted from afar the approaching aircraft, and sounded alarm. Everything went normally, American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. And suddenly all the screens went blank. "Aegis" was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.

Apparently, all efforts to revive the "Aegis" and provide target information for the defence failed. Russia's reaction to military pressure from the United States was profoundly calm, feels the Russian political scientist Pavel Zolotarev:

The demonstration was original enough. A bomber without any weapons, but having onboard equipment for jamming enemy radar, worked against a destroyer equipped with "Aegis", the most modern system of air and missile defence. But this system of mobile location, in this case the ship, has a significant drawback. That is, the target tracking capabilities. They work well when there is a number of these ships which can coordinate with each other somehow. In this case there was just one destroyer. And, apparently, the algorithm of the radar in the "Aegis” system on the destroyer did not load under the influence of jamming by the Su-24. It was therefore not only a nervous reaction to the fact of flying around by the Russin bomber which was common practice during the Cold War. The reaction of the Americans was due to the fact that most modern system, especially its informative or radar part, did not work adequately. Therefore, there was such a nervous reaction to the whole episode.

After the incident, the foreign media reported that "Donald Cook" was rushed into a port in Romania. There all the 27 members of the crew filed a letter of resignation. It seems that all 27 people have written that they are not going to risk their lives. This is indirectly confirmed by the Pentagon statement according to which the action demoralized the crew of the American ship.

What are the possible consequences of the incident provoked by the U.S. in the Black Sea? Pavel Zolotarev forecasts:

I think that Americans are somehow going to reflect on improving the system “Aegis". This is a purely military aspect. In political terms, there is hardly any likelihood of demonstrative steps by either side. That is enough. Meanwhile, for Americans it is a very unpleasant moment. In general, the missile defence system which they deploy involves huge expenditures. They have to prove each time that it is necessary to allocate funds from the budget. At the same time, the ground component of the ABM was tested in ideal conditions and showed a low efficiency. This fact is concealed by the Pentagon. The most modern component, the sea-based system "Aegis" also showed its shortcomings in the present case.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer "Donald Cook" has the code name "Khibiny". This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. "Khibiny" is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy. They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .
Recently the complex has undergone regular testing exercises on the ground in Buryatia. Apparently, the tests which were conducted under conditions as close to real as possible, were successful.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

While you can't see the plane come down, I would think if there was an explosion in the sky as mentioned then there would have been more of a smoke trail or something in the video.

This is also what I wondered about, why there was no smoke and at least not on this video, though maybe there was or is just a movie interpretation. However it came down it will be used against Russia.

At least I heard two or three days ago on the radio that now people also have the possibility to hack planes.

This is actually an interesting idea. Remember the reports recently of the Russian aircraft that messed up the electronics of US Navy ships? (Can somebody find the story?) Well, if they (the Russians) have (something like) that, you can be sure the CIA has it too and probably helped Ukraine with it. That would explain why there was no explosion in the air. The electronics were simply scrambled and the plane fell like a rock.

Thus, all the nonsense about missiles, whether ground-to-air or air-to-air, is just confusion.

all the witnesses yesterday reported that the plane broken up into two parts, the wings fell off, after which it began to fall.
also arrived on the militia and emergency team claim that the corpses stink terribly, as if they were already dead the day before the crash.

 

[Beau]

In response to that story, there's an article that claims the whole story is untrue, a creation of Russian propaganda.

Russia Claims Its Bomber Jammed U.S. Destroyer; Don’t believe it

A Russian Su-24 bomber buzzed the U.S. Navy destroyer USS Donald Cook in the Black Sea in early April, escalating the military standoff over Ukraine and outraging American officials.

Now Russian media claims that the Su-24 managed to jam Donald Cook’s Aegis air-defense system, which combines radars and long-range missiles. “The algorithm of the radar in the Aegis system on the destroyer did not load under the influence of jamming by the Su-24,” the Russian Radio Website reported.

It’s a bullshit story.

Donald Cook’s Aegis system tracked the Su-24 approaching, when suddenly the ship’s sensor displays went blank, according to the Russian Website. The swing-wing Su-24 flew over the destroyer, turned and performed a simulated missile attack.

“Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times,” Russian Radio claimed.

The Russian Khibiny jammer that allegedly took down Aegis is named for a mountain range on Russia’s Kola Peninsula. “Khibiny is the newest complex for radio-electronic jamming of the enemy,” Russian Radio explained. “They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes.”

How credible is this story? First off, how would Russian operators even know the destroyer’s Aegis had shut down? The Pentagon insisted shortly after the incident that Donald Cook was “more than capable of defending itself.”

And Russian Radio stated that after the alleged jamming, Donald Cook “rushed into a port in Romania.”

“There, all the 27 members of the crew filed a letter of resignation,” the Website claimed. “It seems that all 27 people have written that they are not going to risk their lives.”

Um, Donald Cook has a crew of around 280 people. There are no verifiable reports that any of the ship’s sailors resigned. That’s not the sort of thing that happens, well, ever in the U.S. Navy.

Besides, why would Russia would give the U.S. a chance to analyze its latest jamming system? Spoofing a solitary warship isn’t worth betraying an purported major leap in electronic-warfare capability.

Still, it’s not hard to see why Russian Radio would disseminate this propaganda. The site quotes a Russian political scientist saying the jamming of Donald Cook, along with a long string of U.S. missile defense failures, proves that America’s multi-billion-dollar missile defenses don’t work.

“The ground component of the [anti-ballistic missile] was tested in ideal conditions and showed a low efficiency,” said Pavel Zolotarev, deputy director of the Institute of USA and Canada, a Moscow think tank. “This fact is concealed by the Pentagon. The most modern component, the sea-based system Aegis, also showed its shortcomings in the present case.”

With Poland shopping for its own missile-interceptor system, the jamming story might be meant to discourage Russia’s nervous neighbors, as well as the U.S., from pursuing such defenses.

 

[axj]

It seems that the main "proof" presented in the West so far is the recording where separatists allegedly talk about shooting down the wrong plane.

However, as someone in this thread already noted, that recording was uploaded to Youtube long before the incident:

_http://www.mmnews.de/index.php/etc/19144-mh17-angebliche-youtube- (article in German)

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

It seems that the main "proof" presented in the West so far is the recording where separatists allegedly talk about shooting down the wrong plane.

However, as someone in this thread already noted, that recording was uploaded to Youtube long before the incident:

_http://www.mmnews.de/index.php/etc/19144-mh17-angebliche-youtube- (article in German)

oh yeah - it's a separate issue. Ukrainian subsidiary of the CIA once again surrendered herself with giblets 'rough' work.
on video - bonding of different voices from different events that SSU is trying to pass off one.
video they put almost IMMEDIATELY after the plane crash - SO quickly intercepted call recording identifiable glued, have arranged? this is nonsense.

I just downloaded this video, as it almost immediately removed Security, and later added the second similar video, but with a new insert "interception record."

original text: http://gmorder.livejournal.com/1113736.html
The video is visible to leapfrog over time, people began to dig and op - first video: 1.09 Total 17.32 froze - hurry agents)
But that's not all: a look at the creation date - 07/16/2014 19:10:24. This date can not be changed in any way down, if only to download a more recent number of the same video.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

It seems that the main "proof" presented in the West so far is the recording where separatists allegedly talk about shooting down the wrong plane.

However, as someone in this thread already noted, that recording was uploaded to Youtube long before the incident:

_http://www.mmnews.de/index.php/etc/19144-mh17-angebliche-youtube- (article in German)

hereinafter. today on the website of Security Service junta with quote all Ukrainian media has been added to the news that the anti-aircraft system "Buk" had gone back to Russia, and agents arrested SPOTTERS OF FIRE - two citizens of Russia with Russian passports, and - quote Nalivaychenko:

"one of them even managed to take a military ID card, which means that he - a fire spotter"

. Also he said that they knew names of these famous Russian mercenaries-spotters.

this is the funniest bullshit from everything that I've heard lately! what could be the spotter fire when the target at an altitude of 33,000 feet??? for one anti-aircraft military need DIVISION. without radar and additional equipment to bring down the target with "Buk" is only possible up to a maximum of 6 kilometers.

And so, soon after its tradition junta edited this news. and in this revision has nothing was said about the names and passports, but fools from Security demand that Russia called them those names! LOL
and later in a short time this news was completely removed from all Ukrainian websites. :)

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

Addition about passports:

"Internet users have noticed a strange thing on the frame from the crash Boeing 777 in Ukraine. Fact that the passports of the victims, who are in a frame, it is suspicious. Despite the explosion, burning debris and high impact ground impact identification documents from our mass are perfect condition. Moreover, many of them ... overdue. testify to punch holes.

Overdue and having the "mark" of the passport can not be used for boarding and the flight to another country.

WARNING! VIDEO CONTAINS unflattering picture and Not Recommended for children and impressionable people!
Passports show at around 1:56 in the timeline":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoSXrnYLtyM

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Addition about passports:

"Internet users have noticed a strange thing on the frame from the crash Boeing 777 in Ukraine. Fact that the passports of the victims, who are in a frame, it is suspicious. Despite the explosion, burning debris and high impact ground impact identification documents from our mass are perfect condition. Moreover, many of them ... overdue. testify to punch holes.

Overdue and having the "mark" of the passport can not be used for boarding and the flight to another country.

WARNING! VIDEO CONTAINS unflattering picture and Not Recommended for children and impressionable people!
Passports show at around 1:56 in the timeline":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoSXrnYLtyM

I don't know about the punch holes, but I don't see anything out of the ordinary with the fact that several passports were found unburnt. The pictures show a LOT of material from the plane undamaged: luggage, playing cards, food, clothing, etc. Even if the plane was hit by a missile in mid-air, that doesn't mean the whole plane exploded -- certain parts of the plane could've been relatively undamaged before impact with the ground.

 

[angelburst29]

Very bizarre, if true?

Rebel Leader Gives Bizarre Account of Plane Crash
_http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rebel-suggests-malaysia-plane-victims-long-dead-24622107

MOSCOW — Jul 18, 2014, 2:23 PM ET

A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 was shot down Thursday, killing all 298 people aboard. The plane was flying 10,000 meters above an area where Ukrainian forces have been fighting separatist rebels. Each side accuses the other of downing the plane.

U.S. intelligence authorities said a surface-to-air missile brought down the plane, and U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told the U.N. Security Council in New York on Friday that the missile was likely fired from a rebel-held area near the Russian border.

Girkin, also known as Strelkov and allegedly a former Russian military intelligence agent, said he couldn't confirm the information. But it's sure to add to the intense emotions surrounding the crash, with the rebels accused of shooting down the plane.

Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."

He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.