Mehran Keshe and Keshe Foundation Game Changer or Scam?

[Richs]

I could be wrong of course and it may be just my impression, but if you weren't identified with all this, you would have probably posted here "I know this whole Keshe thing seems to be a scam by a con-artist, so I wondered what's up with the following story ... I'm not sure what to make of it, what do you think?"

I am certainly quite aware of what those here think about this. Why should I qualify whatever I am reporting with the disclaimer you think I should begin with above?
I was reporting what occurred, which was:

"After researching and experimenting with the Keshe science and technology, the Ghana Atomic Energy Commission has determined that it is both viable and useful in many areas and states that other African nations should adopt this technology which covers many aspects including health, agriculture and medical applications."

This was not my opinion and I have not myself made any claims and did not write the articles. If you have doubts or complaints as to the accuracy of these claims made by the Ghana Atomic Energy Commission and their scientists it is up to you to decide if they are true or not.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Richard, we have had some heated debates about this.
I learned that it's best not to debate it anymore.
But I wanted to see why I felt so invested in this.
It's because deep down, I feel that you are being tricked. You could be, or not... who knows until we have solid common ground to stand on.

So here's some feelings and thoughts that I tried to put down logically.


Recently I had a debate with a friend of a friend that reminded me of our debates in how I felt during and afterwards.
We disagreed on something about cars. That's fine, I'm up for a discussion.

But, I saw the pattern when I got angry and it turned dark.
I went into the discussion, trying to see how I was possibly wrong. I didn't assume I was wrong or right, I just felt I was right.
So, he had some valid points/doubts though not solid, they did give me some doubts on my original idea.

What pissed me off is that the doubts I had, he brushed off like they didn't exist. Some were valid, it wasn't just a hollow daydream... And I can stand by that as I could see some of his points were valid.

I had my opinion and I knew it was just that, my opinion.
He had the truth and wasn't discussing it to learn more.

I approached this Keshe thing thinking there is not enough proper testing.
My gut opinion is that he's either not completed or making things up.
But, I spoke to you for a reason, to see that maybe I missed something, because I COULD BE WRONG and he could be for real.

When we bring up conflicts about Keshe, you brush them off. Where did you consider that MAYBE Keshe is a scam? It seems like you already are sure that he is not, so anything anyone says that points in that direction, you have to come up with another story to prove your point.
That would be fine, if the story was solid, but in this case you're scrambling to cover up the gaping hole in Keshe's progress. He hasn't really delivered on his promises.

Oh and with that friend, our other friend later told me that yes, it's hard to disagree with him. Because he read so much about those cars, he is sure that anyone else's ideas are wrong- so best not to discuss it.
Figures, when a simple common sense disagreement is met with his "expertise" which in fact is still only as good as it's source.

I'm just saying here that Keshe himself is your source, and that can be flawed in itself.

The group doesn't go by ONE psychology or science book to figure out something. We check many sources!

 

[Richs]

Richard, we have had some heated debates about this.
I learned that it's best not to debate it anymore.
But I wanted to see why I felt so invested in this.
It's because deep down, I feel that you are being tricked. You could be, or not... who knows until we have solid common ground to stand on.

Maybe the best thing is for all of us to delay making judgments until more evidence, whether pro or con comes in?

Where did you consider that MAYBE Keshe is a scam?

I have always considered that this may all not be true. This is why for the entire time I have been following this development I have been watching for anything at all which would indicate it was some sort of hoax.

It seems like you already are sure that he is not, so anything anyone says that points in that direction, you have to come up with another story to prove your point.

I did not "come up with another story" as you state. These were official statements from the Ghana Atomic Energy Commission and Ghana newspapers. These are certainly not 'my stories'. Perhaps you don't understand that I am not actually trying to prove any point, but just reporting what has happened.

That would be fine, if the story was solid, but in this case you're scrambling to cover up the gaping hole in Keshe's progress. He hasn't really delivered on his promises.

Did you actually read the articles in the links I posted? They appear to be "solid", but who can say?
The 'delivery' seems to be ongoing. Do you expect such a radical change and immense undertaking to be accomplished in just a few weeks?

I'm just saying here that Keshe himself is your source, and that can be flawed in itself.

Keshe is not the source of the acticles, although he was there at the conference.

The group doesn't go by ONE psychology or science book to figure out something. We check many sources!

I'm checking a different science book. What is the problem with that?

 

[Divide by Zero]

I have always considered that this may all not be true. This is why for the entire time I have been following this development I have been watching for anything at all which would indicate it was some sort of hoax.

Ok, well when a lot of us here are saying that there's problems in the story and excuses, why are you still hope so strongly for him to be true?

That would be fine, if the story was solid, but in this case you're scrambling to cover up the gaping hole in Keshe's progress. He hasn't really delivered on his promises.

Did you actually read the articles in the links I posted? They appear to be "solid", but who can say?
The 'delivery' seems to be ongoing. Do you expect such a radical change and immense undertaking to be accomplished in just a few weeks?

I have skimmed some. As Laura said, even Ark couldn't make sense of it.

You defend that confusion with saying that it's so advanced that Keshe figured it out. And the built in assumption that anything that is hard to understand must be advanced. What if it is just made up or the ramblings of a mad man? I don't like the flavor of it, reminds me of the other free energy hyped inventions that went vaporware (never being made despite saying that they were going to change the world).

Now where is the a chance for doubt there, when anyone who finds it to be non-scientific is labeled as someone who doesn't know what he means? It's not fair of him to write things that even a physicist cannot comprehend. Then any supporter can say "You won't understand it anyway, it's too advanced" etc.
If I cannot comprehend his super advanced science then don't tell me to read it to prove it and put down my requests for Keshe to show it actually working!
It's a lose lose situation here, don't you see?

Keshe is not the source of the acticles, although he was there at the conference.


I'm checking a different science book. What is the problem with that?

The problem is above, when we're trying to make sense of this technology, we get the run around that it's way advanced. That's what annoys me, you aren't a scientist either, so how can you rationally decide that?

I'm seriously interested in seeing it work, because there is hope that some day we can have super efficient or free energy, but this Keshe guy is running around in circles IMHO.

 

[Renaissance]

Maybe the best thing is for all of us to delay making judgments until more evidence, whether pro or con comes in?

So far there hasn't been any established evidence. You're going on and on about this issue when there is nothing concrete is what people find exhausting. These stories from Ghana don't provide any evidence. So these guys held a conference to look into this stuff. That's not evidence. When there is some evidence one way or another please go ahead and share, but if I were you I wouldn't expect to get any kind of warm reception to more stories that don't produce evidence. So far this is just more of the same, and this continual drawing out of promises IS indicative of a scam. If you're looking for anything at all that points to a scam it is that. You can read through any scammer's email chain and see how it's done.

 

[Richs]

The problem is above, when we're trying to make sense of this technology, we get the run around that it's way advanced. That's what annoys me, you aren't a scientist either, so how can you rationally decide that?

I never said it was so advanced no ordinary people could understand it. It is such a simple concept even young children can understand it.
In fact, a very simple explanation of this science which was designed for children is available and can be found here: (It is about 50 minutes if any of our members wish to know what it is about with a very very simple explanation of what the Plasma he is talking about actually is.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neA8HEI8jNI&list=PLVPBhwOYC1C2Hx5r-l4zglNZRe_fkKeyV

Even though this is meant for children, the concept becomes clear and understandable.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Richard, it's not

The problem is above, when we're trying to make sense of this technology, we get the run around that it's way advanced. That's what annoys me, you aren't a scientist either, so how can you rationally decide that?

I never said it was so advanced no ordinary people could understand it. It is such a simple concept even young children can understand it.
In fact, a very simple explanation of this science which was designed for children is available and can be found here: (It is about 50 minutes if any of our members wish to know what it is about with a very very simple explanation of what the Plasma he is talking about actually is.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neA8HEI8jNI&list=PLVPBhwOYC1C2Hx5r-l4zglNZRe_fkKeyV

Even though this is meant for children, the concept becomes clear and understandable.

It's full of imagination and has nothing to do with the problem at hand. Honestly, I find his voice irritating and condescending. So I didn't watch all of it. Anyway, it's for children, so I doubt it will have the science in it.
Why don't you summarize it in your own words since you understand it.

As for the papers and such. There's jabs you have thrown that I didn't understand his videos because it is advanced and so on. I said what about Ark or a physicist with an open mind? You played that down too, saying that without the background knowledge that this "genius" teaches, they won't know.

I asked you if there was actual test data that shows it works.
I never needed to know how it worked, just that IT WORKS.
AFTER we can learn how it works.

Why would Keshe spend so much time telling you how it works, but never show it working and allow it to be tested simply?

I think I will no longer try to figure it out because it really does feel like insanity. Better to be surprised that it works than to waste my time on some guy that promises over and over but can't show a SIMPLE demo.

Black light power also bugged me with their demos that never proved a single thing.


Edit: I had a smoke and I realized I actually hate Keshe. I remember how you said you don't hate people, but I can and do because that's how I am. I don't care if you think it's a low quality or not. I stopped feeling ashamed for it. After all, it is one of the emotions that can help us stay away from manipulation as described in Why Women Love Psychopaths.
I score high on trusting in the traits thread. I trust first, but can and do label people who are liars or sneaky.

Now, what prompted this was me asking why it upsets me and why did I feel a need to debate it.
I realized that it was selfish. I felt like you believing him all through this run around is a scummy thing of Keshe to pull on many good meaning people.

So, now you can label me as some hate filled person, that's fine. Maybe it will help clear the air.
I hate scammers because they use people and sell dreams.

Until that scammer puts a box that works on the desk, I'm not even going to spend 10 seconds watching a video.

 

[Laura]

Richard, could you quote me exactly where I supposedly said "even Ark couldn't make sense of it." I'm pretty sure I said that Ark determined it to be a scam.

Now, consider a possible collusion between some corrupt agent in Ghana and others who want to make money. Or even a faked "release" from Ghana. Remember the rule of thumb about these things: it's verification is always far away, remote, and impossible to confirm.

Also recall the same types of "certification" that accompanied Jim Humble's MMS - he was curing malaria in Africa right and left, according to him, and produce photos to prove it. Nothing but a scam.

I really don't know what else to say to you about this: there are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

 

[Mikey]

He announced that the commission had been familiarising, testing and affirming the Keshe technology and its applications, adding: “I am happy to state that outcomes are encouraging and the future is promising.”

This is typical 'corprorate speak' containing no information whatsoever.

These people have researched the technology for over a year and have come to the conclusion that not only is Keshe technology valid, but needs to be used by all the African countries to their great benefit.

One way to hinder any discourse is to keep matters so general (i.e. referring to "the technology" in singular) that nobody can refute nor confirm.

I am simply reporting on what I observe. Why is this considered "identification"?

From what we have seen just in this thread, the signature of a scam keeps showing because Keshe keeps people interested by public relations management only, i.e. holding conferences, publishing regular announcements about almost-breakthroughs and empty promises for the future, even though products are already sold which don't confirm the claims.

In this context, what you do is not "simply reporting" or 'keeping an open mind' -- it is simply repeating Keshe's main method of selling 'vaporware', i.e. identified advertising. To restore trust in everything connected to Keshe, which we have lost at this point, it is necessary to rectify that severe lack of substance of claims first. That must happen before any other discussion or sharing of such 'news items' can take place, because for all we know, we already arrived at the bottom of things and anything further on this topic means wasting resources of the members of our forum.

Richard, please do the work to confirm any claims via experiment yourself, then present the experimental outcomes in your own words. We have quite a few members with scientific backgrounds on our forum, you can address your posts to them.

Richard, could you quote me exactly where I supposedly said "even Ark couldn't make sense of it." I'm pretty sure I said that Ark determined it to be a scam.

I think it's this:

Richard, I think you missed Laura's post here so I'll post it again:

Richard, buy one and when all your expectations are fulfilled, let us know. Frankly, Ark and I spent an ENORMOUS amount of time and energy with these alternative energy people of several persuasions years ago. Without exception, they were frauds. Not going there again. So YOU spend YOUR money on it and save the advertising until after you do.

I think we have waited long enough.

 

[Laura]

Richard, could you quote me exactly where I supposedly said "even Ark couldn't make sense of it." I'm pretty sure I said that Ark determined it to be a scam.

I think it's this:

Richard, I think you missed Laura's post here so I'll post it again:

Richard, buy one and when all your expectations are fulfilled, let us know. Frankly, Ark and I spent an ENORMOUS amount of time and energy with these alternative energy people of several persuasions years ago. Without exception, they were frauds. Not going there again. So YOU spend YOUR money on it and save the advertising until after you do.

I think we have waited long enough.

Indeed. And it is VERY telling that your "will to believe" is so strong that you would actually misrepresent my words. That's some serious brain deterioration going on there which, as we know, comes about from believing lies. You begin to propagate them as is the case here.

 

[luc]

Richard, it's interesting how you don't respond to all the important points made here and only select those you think you can deflect.

Here are a few questions that you could answer honestly, if you like:

* Are you a member of any forum, mailing list etc. associated with 'free energy'?
* Do you receive any newsletter about the topic?
* Have you subscribed to any youtube channel (or similar) that deals with this topic?
* Do you receive any other publication dealing with it?
* During the last 12 months, how much total time have you spent reading about 'free energy' topics, researching it, watching videos about it, thinking about it etc.?

I'm asking this because you sound like a 'true believer' to us here who is heavily invested in a scam, which you seem unable to see. It's like the flat earthers - they too demand 'proof' that the earth is not flat and ramble on endlessly about the corruption of science, government etc. (but would probably change their mind quickly if some obscure government agency agreed with them), as if this is reason enough to believe in the most ridiculous theories out there.

I am certainly quite aware of what those here think about this. Why should I qualify whatever I am reporting with the disclaimer you think I should begin with above?

Why? As a service to others. You warn them about a dangerous scam and prevent them from falling for it.

 

[Laura]

I am certainly quite aware of what those here think about this. Why should I qualify whatever I am reporting with the disclaimer you think I should begin with above?

Why? As a service to others. You warn them about a dangerous scam and prevent them from falling for it.

That's really the bottom line. You are acting as a vector of disinformation in this forum which is certainly not a service to others.

 

[seek10]

Richard, we have had some heated debates about this.
I learned that it's best not to debate it anymore.
But I wanted to see why I felt so invested in this.
It's because deep down, I feel that you are being tricked. You could be, or not... who knows until we have solid common ground to stand on.

So here's some feelings and thoughts that I tried to put down logically.


Recently I had a debate with a friend of a friend that reminded me of our debates in how I felt during and afterwards.
We disagreed on something about cars. That's fine, I'm up for a discussion.

But, I saw the pattern when I got angry and it turned dark.
I went into the discussion, trying to see how I was possibly wrong. I didn't assume I was wrong or right, I just felt I was right.
So, he had some valid points/doubts though not solid, they did give me some doubts on my original idea.

I am glad for your realization DBZ. I wondered for some time, why you keep feeding the Richard's 'identification' trying to correct him with passionate argument. Occasionally, I tried to interfere with saying "Didn't we have enough discussion on this?". True, no body took it personally, so no hard feelings. Surely, we all have our own set of passions from our triggers( programs/identifications/buffers). Finally knowing them, checking them will release energy for some thing of good use IMHO.

 

[Nienna]

I think it's this:

Richard, I think you missed Laura's post here so I'll post it again:

Richard, buy one and when all your expectations are fulfilled, let us know. Frankly, Ark and I spent an ENORMOUS amount of time and energy with these alternative energy people of several persuasions years ago. Without exception, they were frauds. Not going there again. So YOU spend YOUR money on it and save the advertising until after you do.

I think we have waited long enough.

There is also this:

Richard, I know it's hard to think of this but just reason with these simple things.

We both don't have the quantum physics know-how on this technology.

Ark does and he looked into it rather deeply at the urging of a FORMER member. It was a scam then and since.

And something else that you have seemed to have just pushed away:

I think I should mention that both Data and Mr. Scott are electrical engineers with advanced degrees. I have personal experience of their knowledge and capabilities in respect of electricity and gadgets. Pierre is also an engineer with advanced degrees, though not in electricity. Ark is a physicist. If you don't want to believe them, to insist that this shady video and scam tactics are real, be my guest, but do it on your own nickel.

Ark, Data, Scottie and Pierre; all very qualified people that understand this sort of thing. And you, obviously, don't seem to think that much about their credentials nor their intelligence because you just keep coming back to trying to show that you were right. You can call it whatever you like to justify your reason for continuing to post about anything positive about this man and his "invention", but it really looks like you are just trying to prove you have been right all along. The Right Man syndrome.

fwiw

 

[Richs]

Richard, could you quote me exactly where I supposedly said "even Ark couldn't make sense of it." I'm pretty sure I said that Ark determined it to be a scam.

Now, consider a possible collusion between some corrupt agent in Ghana and others who want to make money. Or even a faked "release" from Ghana. Remember the rule of thumb about these things: it's verification is always far away, remote, and impossible to confirm.

Also recall the same types of "certification" that accompanied Jim Humble's MMS - he was curing malaria in Africa right and left, according to him, and produce photos to prove it. Nothing but a scam.

I really don't know what else to say to you about this: there are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

Ok, the subject is dead in the water for me.