Michael Jackson Dies


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
After several sporadic moments of watching the documentary, I finally made it until the end. Phew! Based on the body language of those interviewed, all the details, and the classical signs of grooming that were told, there's no doubt in my mind that Jackson was a pedophile. And I do not buy the version of him being just weird, childish and in need of 'loving children'. I think that the whole image he created of him as a 'adult child' and 'Peter Pan' who plays with children's toys was a carefully and intentionally crafted mask so that he would have easier access to abuse these boys.

It's interesting to notice the difference between the demeanor and character of the mothers. Robson's mother, during the decades and after, shows signs of irresponsibility and I being opportunistic – even at the end you don't see her clearly taking responsibility of her part in the whole mess, she's mainly feeling sorry for herself. The thing that she slept a week wearing Michael's jacket after he died tells it all.

As when Safechuck's mother does the right thing – she admits that she f**** up and that Jackson was a pedophile.

A powerful documentary that I think everyone should see before they form their opinion about Jackson's guilt.


Jedi Master
In this YT, Jim Clemente explains the process of grooming and the psychological affects on the child. This is from 2013 when Wade Robson made his first allegations against MJ speaking on the Today Show, starts at 18.00.

In one of the videos above, it was discussed how photos where leaked to the media after Jacksons death that included his naked, dead body lying on a table. I hadn't heard of this before. That must have been very shocking for his family, I'd think. His last exploited, public appearance it seems. I had a look at the pictures of the bedroom where he spent his final hours and this picture of the babies is thought provoking. Did looking at these pure and innocent faces give him some relief from the corrupted person he had become?
View attachment 29444

I don't know how this would affect the development of the brain but it certainly seems possible it would. If he had hormones(seems likely) then it was an added ingredient to the other abuse he likely experienced and what he became. But as stated by Odyssey, he certainly knew what he was doing with the elaborate manipulations he carried out. As he said "I always get what I want".

Yep, that was his "love" for these boys.

I watched Leaving Neverland a few nights ago, Very well done. It seems like a mini bomb has gone off with the telling.
These pictures of his room are :barf:
And the blooded shirt ... :wow:
Not only pedophilia, manipulation, but also other horrible things! satanism? MJ is more sick than what I believed. And if so, this shirt is a glimpse of something more scaring, that lots of adults around him are involved, are very ill. At the same time, I wonder how is it possible that they show this shirt?


FOTCM Member
Also I think there is a good reason why Jim Clemente in all four videos posted above is so adamant in pointing out his experience with the Jackson case and explaining the interviewer and in one case Jacksons Lawyer the tell tell signs of a pedophile in action and the effects it has on the victims on their whole lives, when the interviewer or the Lawyer try to tell everyone "how innocent" he was and/or how "suspicious" the behavior of the victims were.

Since Clemente was a Profiler during Jackson's last trial, and had access to all the information the public had no access to, you get a definitive sense that he knows exactly that Jackson was indeed a pedophile, based on all the data he saw and people can't see, and wants people to understand exactly this very clearly, while not outright saying it. He is on a mission to educate people about pathological criminals and how they operate. Clemente is brilliantly clear in his reasoning in a Sherlock homes kind of way.

He was a Prosecutor before he became a Profiler and knows exactly what he can say and what not while still getting the truth across for everyone with eyes to see, since legally speaking, Jackson is indeed "innocent". He also knows, by having been a victim of sexual abuse as a child, how very difficult it is to prosecute pedophiles, since most of the time, the children only realize what has happened decades later. Pedophiles manipulate the most vulnerable and impressionable humans in society and thus have a relative easy way to get away with what they do in our legal systems.

He also repeatedly makes the point that powerful and influential celebrity type pedophiles (as Jackson was) have a lot of resources and pressure means at their disposal to make it very hard for the victims to go after them and that it is very easy in the US-legal system that those people get away with it. He also makes a very good point how very difficult it is for male victims of sexual abuse in childhood, perpetrated from a male offender, to come out with the truth, let alone dragging the offender to court, especially if he is famous and has a lot of fans who aggressively defend him and means of pressuring and silencing people.

Isn't it also interesting that Jackson managed to make so many people believe that he is a "poor powerless victim" and that everyone is "out to get him"? While being argumentatively one if not the most powerful, influential and richest people in the world, for several decades, at the same time?! And having the means of affording the most ruthless and infamous lawyers on top of that? I think it is a reasonable suggestion that Jackson was indeed the most famous and powerful person on the planet for several decades, thanks to the mysteries he created around himself and his history and the music he put out, that influenced everyone on the planet on a deep emotional basis. Say what you want, I think Jackson had more power and influence in certain respects than even US-Presidents and other powerful world players had, thanks to his peculiar history, music, mystery he created around himself and the emotional hooks he instilled via all of that in billions of people.

It is also very helpful to engage in the thinking processes Clemente proposes about Jackson. Just think how all of what you know about Jackson would come across to you if he wouldn't be famous and influential but a nobody in your neighborhood instead.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I watched both these the other night (thanks Niall for the Vimeo links), and it leaves no doubt in my mind that MJ was a pedophile. It was very hard to watch in parts especially when the men were relating their experiences about what he would get them to do when they were boys. Jeez, they were 7 years old for God’s sake! What blew me away was how well he was able to get past the parents, who totally bought into his outside persona and the fame. They were totally startstruck & that enabled him to get past their guards. Very scary. I mean, in what world is it alright for a young boy to sleep in a man’s room?

The first half really sets the scene for how well the boys were groomed, how easy it was to use his fame, power and money to get the parents on board. And in Wade’s case, MJ used to call Australia every day and speak to the child for 6 - 7 hours and then send fax upon fax. That in itself would ring some alarm bells. How does a conversation last 6 hours, what about the kid’s homework, and getting to bed?

It's interesting to notice the difference between the demeanor and character of the mothers. Robson's mother, during the decades and after, shows signs of irresponsibility and I being opportunistic – even at the end you don't see her clearly taking responsibility of her part in the whole mess, she's mainly feeling sorry for herself. The thing that she slept a week wearing Michael's jacket after he died tells it all.

As when Safechuck's mother does the right thing – she admits that she f**** up and that Jackson was a pedophile.
I had the same impression as well. Robson’s mother did not seem to show much remorse or guilt, and I think she bought into the whole fame and fortune fantasy. She was prepared to break up her family and move over to the US, with all that ensued. You can see both her boys are really bitter about it, and hold her accountable to a very large extent.

I kinda feel sorry for Wade. He was manipulated into perjuring himself to cover for what went on (even to the point of destroying possible evidence), and then decided after MJ’s death (when he had to come to terms with the abuse) to make a claim on MJs estate. To the uneducated (who still buy into the kind gentle superstar image of MJ) Wade just comes across as money hungry, without any credibility to his claims. Wade’s compensation claim was denied in court, so not only was he unable to get any monetary compensation, MJ died being acquitted of the previous charges and Wade now has to deal with the fall out of the documentary from die-hard MJ fans, and his family situation is a mess.

Watching the documentary you can see the huge cognitive dissonance that these men are going through. For all that he did to them, they genuinely loved him. Yet at the same time, he was abusing them, except they (being little 6 and 7 year olds at the time) didn’t know that. The way he toyed with them leads me to think that on top of being a pedophile, he was also a narcissist. He had no regard for them when they outlived their usefulness or he had found a new ‘toy’.

All in all, a very well done, thought provoking and deeply disturbing documentary.


Jedi Master
Well Neil looks like I owe you an apology.

I’m sorry if I was dismissive in my responses to you on the original Neverland sott article.

After some further thinking and research into this matter about Jackson, I’m fairly confident that not only he was guilty of the pedo accusations but that he was a black magician.

I still haven’t seen all the documentary's, but i saw enough.
Also there are several facts that I just can’t gloss over any longer.

First and foremost, him sleeping with kids alone all night! :scared:
Second, the rumor he bought the right to the song “happy birthday”. Got to be pretty hateful person imo to do that.
Finally, this video that I saw recently about Sylvester Stallone Analyzing his Michael Jackson Painting.

Apparently Sylvester Stallone was good friends with him.

What a spell bounder! And I wasn’t that big of a fan.

The apocalypse continues ...


Jedi Master
He is on a mission to educate people about pathological criminals and how they operate. Clemente is brilliantly clear in his reasoning in a Sherlock homes kind of way.
I'm cynical when it comes to "educate people". Why? Because the system in my opinion is what matters and not the People. Clemente might be on a "mission" but only to get the easy low hanging fruit. The ones who can not hire million dollar lawyers. Anything beyond that will mean coming up against the System. Needless to say, the System wins when it needs to win.

The issue of pedophiles in Hollywood is an old story. People there now apparently know the rules of how to stay out of trouble hence the lid is on. Charlie Chaplin hid behind a mask of comedy to hide his desires. However the times were not quite right and he had to hike it to Switzerland. The disgusting Woody Allen got away scott free with his "love affair". That one makes me wonder what hidden stories will comes to pass once the LBGT crowd is allowed to adopt kids. Then lets not forget Epstein and his pal Clinton and Prince Charming from England. The prosecutor gave Epstein a deal worthy of a king.

These sort of cases Clemente will not touch because they are untouchable. I get the impression that MJ was manipulated from the moment he was born. First his crazy dad had a go at him then it was Hollywood with Liza Minnelli and the his fairy godmother ELIZABETH TAYLOR. Those two must have helped him a lot. I don't pretend to think I know the whole story there but the little that leaks out convinces me that it is the Biblical Babylon gone Global. The boundaries of depravity have not yet reached their limits but they are making very steady progress. Watching one episode of "Man In High Castle" made me so disgusted I had to hit the fast forward button the see it to the end.

Yes, the acts are his responsibility but I doubt one can make best decision in life when your world view is completely distorted from the word GO (living on the Big Stage all his life) and never experiencing a normal growing up process. We have a sick being acting sick with no place to look for help as all around him were most likely interested in just one thing, his money and not his well being. I suspect his daughter will go in a similarly destructive direction from the little that is available. The reality hits hard once age begins to show its mark.



Jedi Master
Looking closer at PM Arden of NZ led me to this article in a huge round about way. I am posting it to buttress my point in the previous post I made here about the System.

Government softens stance on calls for inquiry into historic abuse
He stopped short of saying the Government would hold a full-scale inquiry, but said it would be happy to hold discussions to figure out exactly what advocates were hoping to find out.
Now I though that the welfare of children was the highest priority of any government. Yes, on paper it might be but less so in practice.

NZ gov
A character straight from Oz

Now add to the mix the fact that Podesta was in NZ just days before the shooting. Teflon Podesta. Pure coincidence.

It looks to me like things way way down under are nowhere close to being normal. Sure these could all be coincidences but ...............

MJ is dead and unable to defend himself. For some reason he has been chosen for "special treatment" because I don't for a minute believe that it is for the good of the children. Perhaps the attention given to MJ is being used to more openly talk about this kind of behavior. Then in say 10-20 years it will seamlessly be brought into the realm of "normal behavior". Will know when the time passes what they have in mind for the gullible.


Jedi Master
I have not watched the movie, but have seen excerpts and my observation is that this a distraction from the real issue of sexual predation from the church to high profile political and people in "business". As I was not present at Neverland Ranch, there is no way for me to know the "truth" about the allegations especially in light of the testimony of his accusers in court said they lied and one said hid family directed him to accuse the singer for the reward of money. It is interesting that Ms. Winfrey hasn't interviewed her still living friend. Harvey Weinstein about his actions. Here is another perspective from comedian Mo'nique & her husband, https://youtu.be/XymsnGgbUpg


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Geez, I'm so far behind.

I didn't read all of this but for now I just want to make a post in sadness with many of you for a soul departed who was guilty but also oppressed at probably an early age.

Session 7 November 1994:
Q: (L) Is there ever a situation where execution helps relieve the criminal of some of his karma that may be caused by the commission of the crime for which he is being executed?

A: No.

Q: (L) Is it better to take a criminal, such as Dahmer, and have all of society support and take care of him?

A: These are all past issues. Will be resolved soon.

Q: (L) Are there any other physical creatures on planet earth which have souls?

A: All do.

Q: (L) Is the human soul different from, say, animal souls?

A: Of course.

Q: (L) Are there any other physical creatures on the earth which have souls like human souls? On the same level, so to speak?

A: No.
How this will be "resolved" I don't know but at least maybe it will.

And as 1peacelover said this is probably:

this a distraction from the real issue of sexual predation from the church to high profile political and people in "business".


Jedi Master
I must say this is very very interesting. While watching your video I looked at a suggested YT video. Have a listen at 1:45 min as MJ says some interesting things. "They" are the same people Prince confronted. The questions surrounding his death can only make one wonder if it was just "natural".

I'm a strong believer in the theory that where there is any controversy in the Public Theater it is most of the time about Money even though it is not mentioned outright. I have no clue why the sudden interest in MJ after all these years but the element of money probable is involved. It might just be as simple as using the case of MJ to make money on documentaries and magazine sales. Who knows, I don't that's for sure. But we know that Entertainment loves controversy and there is plenty of it with MJ even though he is dead.


Jedi Council Member
Have a listen at 1:45 min as MJ says some interesting things.
It's interesting that he uses the word 'conspiracy' - def: a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful. It seems that MJ was the one who was involved in a 'conspiracy'. The detractors that he mentioned were not operating secretly - they were publishing their views, so they were operating in the open. Also interesting that 'conspiracy' refers to a group action - I wonder if we'll ever know how many people knew what was happening at Neverland and did not speak up.

Hello H2O

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Thing is, I am sure the PTB are glad to have him gone. He was outspoken against the government, the system, was anti war, and had a huge following. That in itself is a recipe for an early demise. (MLK, John Lennon, Bob Marley etc). (And he was about to embark on another world tour, which would surely ramp up his popularity.)

There are still too many questions surrounding his life and death for me. He probably was a pedophile, but I think that he was dangerous to some for other reasons , IMO.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
What I find interesting is that a movie about Harvey Weinstein and his abuse scandal (titled Untouchable) was released around the same time Leaving Neverland was. Apparently they both had their premieres on the same day. Yet despite the fact that the Weinstein-gate was such a hot topic when it first exploded, it is Leaving Neverland that gets all the attention now.

From the above article posted in Jan 2019:

HBO airs Michael Jackson expose "Leaving Neverland" in March, while Harvey Weinstein doc "Untouchable" seeks a buyer.

That said, there's little, if any, doubt left that MJ was a pedophile. I don't think he was a psychopath and I agree his childhood and upbringing probably contributed to what he became. Yet another human being damaged in order to keep the cycle of abuse going for the next generation. Like a vampire bite.

But in all honesty, there are plenty of people who were abused as children. Many even more than Jackson. And yet they don't end up sexually abusing little boys.

After watching Leaving Neverland I watched quite a few interviews with MJ on YouTube, especially those where he talks about the sexual abuse scandals.

There's something funny about the overly emotional way he talks about the innocence and purity of those boys sleeping in his bed.

In the below video he said he'd never hurt a child like this and those accusations are ridiculous becuase, "it's not what's in his heart". I mean, seriously? In order to have sexual interactions with a little boy it would have to be in his heart??? My take on this may be coloured by Leaving Neverland but wouldn't saying something along the lines of "I'm not a perverted monster" be a normal reaction?

That said, he did have a really emotive way of expressing himself and he threw heart, soul and love around all the time. And he did say he would never hurt a child in reference to those accusations. But somehow hearing him say he hadn't done it becuase it wasn't in his heart made me feel nauseous, especially that according to Safechuck and Robinson, he kept telling them the abuse was how they showed their love for each other. Sickening.

I started the below video at a point where the pedophilia accusations are brought up:



The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I have to agree with those of you who think MJ was most likely a pedophile. One thing that was to me glaringly obvious was what I would call the Peter Pan syndrome.

Peter Pan syndrome is an inability to grow up or engage in behaviour usually associated with adulthood. The term comes from the fictional children's character Peter Pan, who never ages.[1] While transageism, or adults regarding themselves as juveniles or adolescents (also referred to as "juvenilism" and "adolescentilism", respectively[2]) is not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, and is not recognized by the American Psychiatric Association as a specific mental disorder,[3] the concept is falsely modelled on transgenderism. This transeageist concept has garnered a great deal of controversy.[4] People who exhibit characteristics associated with the Peter Pan syndrome are sometimes referred to as Peter Panners.[5]
Why would any of those parents let their children stay with a 36 year old man who lives in "Neverland". I think it says a lot about the maturity of the parents.
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