Michael Jackson Dies

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I think there is something that can be said in this direction: I think it's largely circumstances beyond his control that made him that way. His own childhood was stolen too. His victims remain confused to this day because they also remember him tenderly. From what Wade and Safechuck said, it seems that he never forced himself on them. That's rather different behavior to sadistic 'pedophiles' who are into it primarily for the power it gives them to torture the innocent. If Jackson was a pedophile, then he was not a pedo-criminal, a term used in France to distinguish the really malevolent sickos.

So I don't think he was a psychopath, not a born one anyway.
That's the direction I'm leaning towards as well at this point. Not all psychopaths are pedophiles (in fact, I think a minority are, if I'm remembering a study I read years ago correctly), and I don't think all pedophiles are psychopaths either. I'm guessing the "pedo-criminals" are probably both. But for the pedophiles who aren't technically psychopaths, I think maybe we could classify as characteropaths. In addition to whatever has deformed their character (trauma, exposure to severe psychopathology as children?), the very fact that they're sexually aroused by children - and usually only children - must really screw up their psyches on top of that, and perhaps even cause them to develop some very psychopathic strategies of manipulation, combined with an extreme degree of self-delusion. Perhaps MJ was so good at convincing others because he was so good at convincing himself? I'm not sure what is worse: abusing children out of a sense of sadistic domination, or abusing children while being convinced it is actually good...
 

nature

Jedi Master
If I remember, I heard from a doctor colleague that MJ was given an hormonal treatment when he was very young (pre-puberty): something like androcur, an anti-testosterone (testosterone is the male hormone), for his allegued acnea. I doubt that at that age he had acnea, maybe his disturbed parents pretended that, so that their last son remains with a feminine/infantile voice eternally, in this singers' family.
Like eunuchs in antic times, who were castrated so that they won't be attracted by women and be women's guards or servants. They also had feminin voice.

This treatment can explain, besides his voice, his lack of interest in women, his non-masculine and physically undevelopped body, and his delusion of eternal youth.
 

BrendaH

Jedi
If I remember, I heard from a doctor colleague that MJ was given an hormonal treatment when he was very young (pre-puberty): something like androcur, an anti-testosterone (testosterone is the male hormone), for his allegued acnea. I doubt that at that age he had acnea, maybe his disturbed parents pretended that, so that their last son remains with a feminine/infantile voice eternally, in this singers' family.
Like eunuchs in antic times, who were castrated so that they won't be attracted by women and be women's guards or servants. They also had feminin voice.

This treatment can explain, besides his voice, his lack of interest in women, his non-masculine and physically undevelopped body, and his delusion of eternal youth.
Apparently, the doctor accused of his murder made that confession in his book This Is It! The Secret Lives of Dr. Conrad Murray and Michael Jackson.


Michael Jackson ‘given hormone injections to delay puberty and keep his voice high’

Dr. Conrad Murray claims the King of Pop's erratic behaviour could have stemmed from the mystery shots.

MICHAEL Jackson was given hormones to stop his voice from breaking, claims the doctor accused of his murder.

Dr. Conrad Murray says that Michael told him his darkest secret while under his care in the three years before he died.

According to the dodgy doctor, MJ hinted that his high-pitched singing voice wasn’t a natural phenomenon, it was down to injections administered to him as a child.

Dr. Murray said: “He began talking vaguely, seeming to have more difficulty describing precisely what happened to him.

“Maybe he was almost at the limit to his cathartic confession that night.

“But what Michael said left me the impression that he had been given injections, probably hormones, to delay puberty.”

In his new book This Is It, the shamed medical professional shares many of the conversations he claims to have had with MJ – and spills all the secrets he vowed to take with him to his grave.

He said: “I often saw Jackson at his most exposed and confessional.

“He only agreed to share after making me swear, ‘You will never breathe a word. Never.’

“I agreed. I was shocked when Jackson told me.

“It would explain all of Michael’s unusual behaviour as well as his morphological changes.”

These aren’t the first claims about Michael being injected with a mystery substance.

For years Michael was plagued with cruel and unproven rumours that he had been “chemically castrated” with drug injections as a child.

Some theories claim that he was injected to treat a chronic acne problem but the side effects meant he never fully developed.

Others claim it was more contrived, and by giving him female hormones it kept him hitting the high notes – and bringing in the big bucks – for as long as possible.


Some fans cite this as being the reason he hated and feared his father so much, and also why he continued to relate to underage boys all his life – it was how he saw himself.

They also believe that it relates to why he called his sprawling California ranch Neverland – it was for people like him, boys who could never grow up.

His decision to put all his sordid Jacko-related anecdotes in a money-spinning book is sure to do little to endear him to fans of the singer.

Michael died in 2009 from a heart-attack brought on by prescription drugs prescribed to him by Dr. Murray.

He was later found guilty of involuntary manslaughter at a 2011 trial relating to the death of the music icon.
 

Pashalis

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
As Niall said, the documentary in combination with the things that were brought up starting here and here leave simply no room for doubt anymore.
I think it is worthwhile to listen again to what Jim Clemente had to say about the Jackson case in the following three videos in addition to another one I just discovered were Clemente interviews the infamous Jackson Lawyer for the case! Here we go:

Here is what former FBI agent Jim Clemente has to say about Jackson and the "child abuse case" against him [15:13 - 25:08]:



Notice that he was involved in the case and probably would have testified in court, if he would not have developed/fought cancer at that time.
More about Jackson from Clemente (15:08 - 27:50):



And another one (17:56 - 33:03):


Here the interview with Jacksons Lawyer. It starts at 05:45

 

nature

Jedi Master
Apparently, the doctor accused of his murder made that confession in his book This Is It! The Secret Lives of Dr. Conrad Murray and Michael Jackson.
So, this anti-testosterone injections are true. Poor child. It can explain what MJ became. He was an eternal kid, never becoming adult, with normal intimate life as an adult. Finally, his strory makes us think about his responsibility on his pedophiles acts. We can't accept what he did on his young victims, but we can be sad for what he underwent. MJ have been deprivated of his natural male hormones, these hormones that are crucial in brain maturation, normal mental functioning, and sexual orientation.
That reminds me of the numerous threads where Laura explained to us the important effects of hormones, neuropeptides and neurotransmitters on our brain development, mental life and brain functionning. Also Adrian Raine's Anatomy of violence where he explains how some environmental factors in childhood can shape somebody's brain physiology in a detrimental way.

Now I see him as an experiment :-( or a toy for entertainment industry who made lots of money on his body transformations. I'm both disgusted (for what he did to his victims) and full of pity (for he has been himself victim of the adults' greedy when he was a child).
 

Odyssey

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I don't really buy the hormone injections affecting his mental functioning angle. He functioned well enough to slowly and slyly ingratiate himself with the boy's families, make friends with their mothers, manipulate the boys not to tell, spend significant time grooming the boys and plying them with gifts. His mind worked well enough to keep his activities with little boys a secret from everyone.

I can be sad for someone being deprived of their childhood but only if they don't turn around deprive other children of theirs.
 

nature

Jedi Master
I don't really buy the hormone injections affecting his mental functioning angle. He functioned well enough to slowly and slyly ingratiate himself with the boy's families, make friends with their mothers, manipulate the boys not to tell, spend significant time grooming the boys and plying them with gifts. His mind worked well enough to keep his activities with little boys a secret from everyone.

I can be sad for someone being deprived of their childhood but only if they don't turn around deprive other children of theirs.
Oh yes! You're right! Sorry I've lost the whole picture, this very important point.
 

D.Leo333

The Force is Strong With This One
Michael Jackson buying a 'wedding' ring allegedly for Sheryl Crow, who was rumored at the time was dating MJ, as she sang backup for him. But she never dated him. The boy in the video was actually James Safechuck, and MJ was buying the ring for him.

 

Pashalis

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Michael Jackson buying a 'wedding' ring allegedly for Sheryl Crow, who was rumored at the time was dating MJ, as she sang backup for him. But she never dated him. The boy in the video was actually James Safechuck, and MJ was buying the ring for him.
Which quite clearly corroborates James Safechuck statement in the first "Leaving Neverland" part, starting at 01:25:16, down to the specific details seen and talked about in the video you found. He talked about a wedding ceremony that Jackson set up between the boy and him in his bedroom to tell the child that they "are now married" and leaving the impression on the child that they are now bonded forever with the ring and filling out some vows. Then Safechuck shows the ring (visibly shaken by thinking about it) and a number of other rings and jewelry Jackson gave him, saying:

"I was really into jewelry. And he [Michael Jackson] would reward me with jewelry for doing sexual acts for him: He would say: "That I need to sell him some... so that I could earn the gift [the jewelry]". You know, I liked jewelry and I liked it as a kid and I think that something that I enjoyed was used against me. So I think that that causes discomfort [in me] I don't know...[mumbling/shaking]. It is still hard for me to not blame myself... [Safechuck showing a another Jewelry Jackson "gifted" him at this point] This piece of Jewelry is like a Rolex-Ring, the diamond in the middle... [picking it up into his hand] My hands are shaking just holding them [the Jewelry]... We would go buying them [the Jewelry] at Jewelry stores and we would pretend that they were like for somebody else, like for a female... But we would pretend like my small hand would fit whatever female we were buying it for. Yeah... [Safechuck being visibly confused and shaken looking at the Jewelry]. Yeah, yeah... I don't like looking at the Jewelry..."
 
Last edited:

SummerLite

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
In this YT, Jim Clemente explains the process of grooming and the psychological affects on the child. This is from 2013 when Wade Robson made his first allegations against MJ speaking on the Today Show, starts at 18.00.


In one of the videos above, it was discussed how photos where leaked to the media after Jacksons death that included his naked, dead body lying on a table. I hadn't heard of this before. That must have been very shocking for his family, I'd think. His last exploited, public appearance it seems. I had a look at the pictures of the bedroom where he spent his final hours and this picture of the babies is thought provoking. Did looking at these pure and innocent faces give him some relief from the corrupted person he had become?
29444

So, this anti-testosterone injections are true. Poor child. It can explain what MJ became. He was an eternal kid, never becoming adult, with normal intimate life as an adult. Finally, his strory makes us think about his responsibility on his pedophiles acts. We can't accept what he did on his young victims, but we can be sad for what he underwent. MJ have been deprivated of his natural male hormones, these hormones that are crucial in brain maturation, normal mental functioning, and sexual orientation.
That reminds me of the numerous threads where Laura explained to us the important effects of hormones, neuropeptides and neurotransmitters on our brain development, mental life and brain functionning. Also Adrian Raine's Anatomy of violence where he explains how some environmental factors in childhood can shape somebody's brain physiology in a detrimental way.

Now I see him as an experiment :-( or a toy for entertainment industry who made lots of money on his body transformations. I'm both disgusted (for what he did to his victims) and full of pity (for he has been himself victim of the adults' greedy when he was a child).
I don't know how this would affect the development of the brain but it certainly seems possible it would. If he had hormones(seems likely) then it was an added ingredient to the other abuse he likely experienced and what he became. But as stated by Odyssey, he certainly knew what he was doing with the elaborate manipulations he carried out. As he said "I always get what I want".

I can be sad for someone being deprived of their childhood but only if they don't turn around deprive other children of theirs.
Yep, that was his "love" for these boys.

I watched Leaving Neverland a few nights ago, Very well done. It seems like a mini bomb has gone off with the telling.
 
Last edited:

SummerLite

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Whoops, I see the YT is the one Pashalis already posted.... :nuts:. A different intro picture threw me off, anyway a good description on grooming.
 

genero81

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Perhaps MJ was so good at convincing others because he was so good at convincing himself?
I think this is most likely the case. But some part of him knew the truth, which made him very sick indeed. He didn't 'push' himself on any child, not because of some distorted moral code, but because he needed that cooperation to successfully play the mind game he had going with himself; that he 'loved' these boys, and that they 'loved' him.

I haven't seen it yet. My boss brought it up tonight as I was leaving work. It's making a splash for sure.
 
Top Bottom