Michael Jackson Dies

[chachazoom]

I do think there was some "funny business" going on between him and young boys but I'm not sure it was pedophilia as we generally understand it. He really may have been so disturbed that he pretended to be a young boy - a Peter Pan - and tried to engage with other young boys on that level. That makes it pretty sick, and certainly no better for the victims, but then, Michael was a victim too.

I too have always felt that whatever was going on was not pedophilia as it is generally understood. Not healthy for sure.
I just remember being a kid and watching this other kid on tv. belting out songs and dancing up a storm and it made me feel enormous possibilities. Play took on new levels and direction....there were plenty of pretend jackson 5 concerts around our house. There's just something about his talents that really inspired and continues to inspire kids. My son (12) has always admired his music and performances but has kept it in the closet because of the black cloud surrounding MJ....the kids at school and the endless jokes but it seems MJ's death has actually blown the ugly part away a bit and my son, along with his cousins, have spent the last few days outside perfecting the "Thriller" dance.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

While others have expressed compassion and understanding for a troubled human who lived a hellish existence, and even relief for his death, your post has the opposite flavor, SAO. There is a difference between understanding while not condoning another's actions, with compassion, and gut reaction moralizing, OSIT.

I agree, SAO i found your post to be quite un-empathetic. Actually, yesterday when I heard the news, I immediately received a phone call from my mom who had also heard the news and was upset about it. We talked, and she was telling me that I should be glad I'm not at her work because people around her were all making fun of him, the way he looked, his noes and making very "cruel" jokes about the pedophilia allegations. She said that listening to them made her feel very bad and I could understand why...
Again, I'm not saying that those allegations are not true but out of sincerity for his death those that did love him, would it not have been a little externally-considerate to hold off on those kinds of jokes?
It kind of reminds me of some talk-shows like Jay Leno and David Lettermen made fun of the 9-11 incident like the day after 9-11... very insensitive.

I agree. I found SAO's post rather cold. The attempt at humor seemed to fall flat on its face.

In the end, I think that most people who are upset by death at a distance like this are those who are afraid of their own mortality. And, as the song goes, "Those afraid of dying, never learn to live." (And sometimes this fear of death can be expressed by making jokes!)

But, there are other, greater, tragedies taking place every hour, every minute of every day and maybe the death of a "Pop Icon" is sort of a vicarious way of acknowledging that? Maybe when people are upset over the deaths of strangers in this way, they are doing that, allowing themselves a permissable outlet for their generalized grief?

And those who don't? Well, I only notice that SAO has been given a couple of opportunities to actually do some things (like work on SOTT) that might contribute to actually helping others even if it is only bearing witness to their suffering, and has never been able to actually DO anything. Perhaps his reaction to MJ's death is like whistling past the graveyard in respect of his own feelings of helplessness in the face of a world gone mad?

I didn't know he actually had children living with him, that does change the situation, I thought he lived alone. And I am sorry - I was actually a fan of Michael's music all my life and I don't know why in some cases I react to death with humor as a coping mechanism. I didn't mean to upset people who are genuinely mourning his death, nor did I consider that his death is an outlet for others to mourn greater tragedies and express grief regarding those. I know at least part of the reason for the humor is because I think that national mourning the death of a pop star and total ignorance of the deaths of thousands of others that were not "important" makes no sense, and I guess humor was just not the best way to express that. I also have nothing against Michael and I hope he is at peace, and all others who are not nationally mourned.

As for not being able to DO anything, that's true, and it's not due to lack of opportunities. I hope that will change soon, and I have no real answer as to why it hasn't changed yet except that I just did not do what I know I could've been doing, and I feel really guilty about that. I'm sorry to all who could've potentially benefited from my non-existent contribution and all I can say is I hope that I can change that in the near future.

 

[Jacques]

As for not being able to DO anything, that's true, and it's not due to lack of opportunities. I hope that will change soon, and I have no real answer as to why it hasn't changed yet except that I just did not do what I know I could've been doing, and I feel really guilty about that. I'm sorry to all who could've potentially benefited from my non-existent contribution and all I can say is I hope that I can change that in the near future.

Hi SAO

I might be way out but if you keep doing or not doing the same things, you will have the same results or no result.

If you want to have different results in your life then you have to change something.

 

[Rabelais]

Michael was a black man who converted to Islam. His business affairs were controlled by entertainment industry sharks who are mostly of anti Islamic sympathies. Whether this had anything to do with is death is unknown.

Now the feeding frenzy begins.

Sony/ATV Plans to Keep Rights to Invaluable Beatles Catalogue

Bloomberg News
Sunday, June 28, 2009

Sony/ATV Music Publishing, co-owned by Michael Jackson and Sony, will keep control of Beatles songs following the pop singer's death, said a person with knowledge of the venture's plans.

Jackson, who died Thursday at age 50 in Los Angeles, owned 50 percent of Sony/ATV, which holds rights to more than 200 songs written by John Lennon and Paul McCartney, as well as songs by Bob Dylan, Neil Diamond and others. His stake is worth about $1 billion, said Ivan Thornton, a private-wealth adviser who has worked with Jackson.

Sony/ATV will continue to hold the Lennon and McCartney catalogue, said the person, who asked not to be named because the matter isn't public. Britain's Daily Mirror reported in January that Jackson planned to leave the Beatles rights to McCartney in his will to heal a rift between the musicians. Jackson paid $47.5 million in 1985 for the catalogue, outbidding McCartney and Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono.

snip
_http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/27/AR2009062702410.html

Michael was worth more dead than alive. I have also read that it was Sony who provided his in residence doctor. This is hearsay and not yet corroborated. It is eerily reminiscent of the final days of Elvis. The list of drugs that he had free access to and was taking in staggering quantities would imply very irresponsible medical care.

'I'm better off dead. I'm done': Michael Jackson's fateful prediction just a week before his death

By Ian Halperin
Last updated at 3:58 PM on 29th June 2009

* Genetic condition had ruined his lungs and left him unable to sing
* He became so skeletal, doctors believed he was anorexic
* He had nightmares about being murdered – and wanted to die
* He used swine flu as an excuse to avoid coming to England
* He thought he was agreeing to 10 concerts – it was 50

Whatever the final autopsy results reveal, it was greed that killed Michael Jackson. Had he not been driven – by a cabal of bankers, agents, doctors and advisers – to commit to the gruelling 50 concerts in London’s O2 Arena, I believe he would still be alive today.

During the last weeks and months of his life, Jackson made desperate attempts to prepare for the concert series scheduled for next month – a series that would have earned millions for the singer and his entourage, but which he could never have completed, not mentally, and not physically.

snip
_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196009/Im-better-dead-Im-How-Michael-Jackson-predicted-death-months-ago.html

[Edit follows]

This just in...

Jackson kids’ Jewish mother could regain custody

June 28, 2009

LOS ANGELES (JTA) -- Reports are conflicting over whether the Jewish mother of two of the late Michael Jackson's children will seek custody.

Jackson, the "King of Pop" who died Friday of unspecified causes, and Debbie Rowe are the parents of Prince Michael I, 12, and Paris Michael Katherine, 11. By virtue of having a Jewish mother, they are considered Jewish.

According to London's Sunday Times, sources close to Rowe said she will not fight Katherine Jackson, the pop star's mother, for custody of the children, and that she would be satisfied with more access to them.

But Iris Finsilver, Rowe’s attorney, told the Associated Press that she was certain that Rowe would seek custody of the two children. Finsilver had previously confirmed that Rowe was Jewish.

Jackson married Rowe, his former nurse, in 1996, when she was six months pregnant following his divorce from Lisa Marie Presley, the daughter of the famed late singer Elvis Presley.

Rowe signed a contract waiving her parental rights after she and Jackson divorced in 1999. She later contested the contract, among other arguments expressing her fears that the children were exposed to the teachings of the Nation of Islam through their nanny and some of Jackson’s siblings.

An appeals court ruled in her favor in 2006, but ultimately the custody battle was settled out of court.

Legal authorities contacted by the Los Angeles Times in general agreed that under California law, Rowe would be likely to regain custody, even if Jackson had designated another guardian in his will.

Jackson had a third child, Prince Michael II, with a surrogate mother whose identity has not been revealed.

_http://jta.org/news/article/2009/06/28/1006174/jackson-kids-jewish-mother-could-regain-custody

There will be pay days for many attorneys before his estate is settled.

 

[Adaryn]

As for not being able to DO anything, that's true, and it's not due to lack of opportunities. I hope that will change soon, and I have no real answer as to why it hasn't changed yet except that I just did not do what I know I could've been doing, and I feel really guilty about that. I'm sorry to all who could've potentially benefited from my non-existent contribution and all I can say is I hope that I can change that in the near future.

Hi SAO

I might be way out but if you keep doing or not doing the same things, you will have the same results or no result.

If you want to have different results in your life then you have to change something.

Hi SAO,

I agree with Namaste.
If you were truly sorry and truly felt guilty, as you said you are/feel, then you would start to DO something NOW, not just "hope" to do something in some distant, indefinite future. In that light, your post doesn't sound really honest and sincere to me.
It's never too late to take the first step… assuming you really mean what you say.

 

[dant]

Sometimes it helps, for members of this forum to
point out in clear terms, what one might not see in
one's self, a reflection so to speak, that one might
have a chance at self-reflection, self-correction, in
order to become collinear with the group, hence the
value of networking?

 

[Oxajil]

and all I can say is I hope that I can change that in the near future.

Perhaps what the Pleadians said here could act as an inspiration:

You are a result of your thoughts. If there is nothing else you learn on
this planet, you will learn that this is the rule in this reality and
the rule of many other realities. /Thought creates experience. /Why not
give yourself a gift and begin to think of yourself in a capacity that
is exceptional, magnificent, and uplifting; free yourselves from the
need to have the rest of society agree with you. /Validate yourselves.
/For some of you, this is very difficult. How do you validate yourself
when you are in the habit of not doing it?

Your words are either empowering or disempowering. We want you to have
the courage to live your light, so we want to emphasize to you and
convince you in whatever way possible that your thoughts formulate your
world. Eliminate the words /should /and /trying /from your vocabulary.
If you were to pay money every time you say these words, you would be in
great debt. You are in a great debt of disempowerment or impotence.
/Should /implies that you are operating under someone else's
sovereignty. We would like to remind you that you are sovereign unto
yourself.

If someone is /trying /to put out a newsletter or /trying /to change
their patterns, they can try for the rest of their life. /Trying /is not
/doing. /Whenever you use the word /trying, /you will not accomplish
anything because trying is an excuse: "I tried to do it. I tried. I
tried." In your own life, use the words "I am creating," "I am doing,"
"I am manifesting," "I am intending," and "I am bringing about." Forget
"I am trying."

When you become a /doer /and are able to manifest what you want in life,
you set yourself up as a mirror for many people. There has been a belief
that there is a limited amount of everything and that only one person or
the other can be a doer or manifester. When you begin to show that you
can bend the laws they want and they can't get it unless you don't have it.

 

[Z...]

For years I've been reading SAO's posts on this forum with attention given that he has had quite a few wise moments, in fact some of SAO's post were source of great inspiration. One could say that by now I can recognize the flavor of SAO's writing style.
This last post stands out from his usual wirtting style. It seems forced and artificial, well insincere as already said.

apart from things that Carcosa pointed out what strikes me as off was the part where you talking about not knowing M.J's family situation. Are you saying if you knew his children lived with him you wouldn't crack the joke?

My original reaction to M.J. death was exactly the same as yours, I just suppressed it. The difference is I strongly dissliked M.J.'s music, choreography, appearance pretty much everything about him. You say you liked his music all your life. For me that was off as well, as I think we show more compassion to those we like or those who touch our sensibility in some way. But I might be wrong with this.

I was going to post the following, few days ago but then I never got to do it. It's the lyrics from M.J. song, his tragic life is a vivid example that talking the talk is worth nothing without walking the walk...no intention whatsoever to preach to SAO more then I would preach to myself

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change)
(Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah)​

 

[T.C.]

Hi SAO,

I agree with Namaste.
If you were truly sorry and truly felt guilty, as you said you are/feel, then you would start to DO something NOW, not just "hope" to do something in some distant, indefinite future. In that light, your post doesn't sound really honest and sincere to me.
It's never too late to take the first step… assuming you really mean what you say.

Hi SAO

The last part of your last post, about feeling guilty for not DOing or helping, and hoping this will change, sounded to me like quite an automatic, reactionary response. I think it was a way to avoid working on yourself.

As for not being able to DO anything, that's true, and it's not due to lack of opportunities. I hope that will change soon

Your life is in your hands. You've written some good stuff about responsibility in other threads. How, it may not necessarily be someones fault that they are 'this' or 'that', but change is always their responsibility. Hoping you will change is like giving over you free will to a belief system; it sounds very detached.

We do what we want to do. Face it, there's a part of your personality that doesn't want to help. It's up to you whether you examine that part of you to see if you want to keep it or change it.

 

[spyraal]

For years I've been reading SAO's posts on this forum with attention given that he has had quite a few wise moments, in fact some of SAO's post were source of great inspiration. One could say that by now I can recognize the flavor of SAO's writing style.
This last post stands out from his usual wirtting style. It seems forced and artificial, well insincere as already said.

Apart from things that Carcosa pointed out what strikes me as off was the part where you talking about not knowing M.J's family situation. Are you saying if you knew his children lived with him you wouldn't crack the joke?

I agree with Corto Maltese on his points here.

First, i think i have benefited and been inspired quite a few times from SAO's posts myself. I consider him to be a very intelligent and sensitive person with really great potential. If i am allowed to hypothesize, this may be the very reason why Laura and the others are "pushing" him through their mirroring to DO more... Coming from the right people, this can even be considered a compliment! Still, SAO's last post stands in contrast to his usual writing style and does seem a bit "artificial" to me too. But trying to put myself in SAO's shoes, and taking into account how much we all respect and value the opinion of Laura and many others in this forum, i reckon it would be quite a healthy shock for me too to receive their mirroring in this thread, and mainly their comments about Doing (or not-Doing). Still, we should consider these moments as the most useful part of mirroring and as an opportunity to grow.

As for SAO's joke, the way i see it, it was not as much insulting for the dead MJ, as it was for the feelings of the people who were really fond of him. But what is written in the news links that Rabelais posted -for example- is really more insulting IMO, as all this wondering gossip about the reasons he died, his health, religion, family life and the lot, constitute the real and profane moral looting of the dead Micheal, in a degree that no single joke can achieve.

Also, personally, i do not think that the fact that he has three kids changes any of my feelings towards MJ significantly. As it concerns these kids, I worry more about the predating people that will surround them being the heirs of their father's fortune and name than anything else. But on the other hand, probably they won't have to starve to death or enlist in the army to die from Depleted Uranium caused cancer or die from bombing by blind artillery shells or freelance snippers... As Don Juan says, our life is not made by blessings or curses, just challenges. A kid in Palestine has it's own set of challenges in life, and MJ's kids will have a different set of their own accordingly, as any of us does.

Finally, regarding the place that gave birth and bred the pop icon "Michael Jackson" among many others, the motherland of show business and the "star system", the US of A, the place that now seems to mourn and suffer by the loss of this talented yet idolized single man, i will quote a part of the session of 06 Aug 05:

Q: (J) How many troops have actually been killed since the beginning of the Iraq war?

A: 7,500

...


Q: (H) What percentage of the US population actually thinks at all?

A: 12% if you define it rigidly.

Q: (group amazement at this figure)

A: What do you expect with HAARP turning brains to tapioca

Q: (J) So it's a Zombie nation then?

A: You took the words right out of 6th density.

:)

 

[Beau]

I thought the message that Lisa Marie Prestley sent out had some interesting comments in them:

Our relationship was not "a sham" as is being reported in the press. It was an unusual relationship yes, where two unusual people who did not live or know a "Normal life" found a connection, perhaps with some suspect timing on his part. Nonetheless, I do believe he loved me as much as he could love anyone and I loved him very much. I wanted to "save him" I wanted to save him from the inevitable which is what has just happened. His family and his loved ones also wanted to save him from this as well but didn't know how and this was 14 years ago. We all worried that this would be the outcome then.

At that time, In trying to save him, I almost lost myself. He was an incredibly dynamic force and power that was not to be underestimated. When he used it for something good, It was the best and when he used it for something bad, It was really, REALLY bad. Mediocrity was not a concept that would even for a second enter Michael Jackson's being or actions. I became very ill and emotionally/ spiritually exhausted in my quest to save him from certain self-destructive behavior and from the awful vampires and leeches he would always manage to magnetize around him.

One wonders if MJ was used as a conduit to drain from others, especially from young children...

 

[JEEP]

I'm sure most readers here are familiar with the phrase, 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

If someone is /trying /to put out a newsletter or /trying /to change their patterns, they can try for the rest of their life. /Trying /is not/doing. /Whenever you use the word /trying, /you will not accomplish anything because trying is an excuse: "I tried to do it. I tried. I tried." In your own life, use the words "I am creating," "I am doing," "I am manifesting," "I am intending," and "I am bringing about." Forget"I am trying."

To me, the difference between trying and intending seems to be one of semantics, but if using intend is the correct choice, then I intend to eliminate try from my vocabulary. Why sabotage oneself any more than necessary? I also like the thought that the correct use of words is empowering--who couldn't use more of that!

For years I've been reading SAO's posts on this forum with attention given that he has had quite a few wise moments, in fact some of SAO's post were source of great inspiration.

In the short time I have been participating in this forum, I, too, have found SAO's post insightful and useful for inner growth. Consequently, I was greatly taken aback by his MJ joke posting!

Following this line of thought, maybe SAO's humour does him a service after all by restoring him to a human scale, where even our death and our life's (mis)deeds are seen for what little they are, and therefore they can even be laughed upon.

I feel that spyraal made some good points and I also agree that the MJ joke was clever and very funny. The trouble is, if I laugh at a joke like that, one at the expense of an obviously damaged person, it just feels wrong and even shameful. It's like laughing at a person with down syndrome or the like. I feel like a bad person to do that. But, I also wonder if this particular character trait is what enables psychopaths to be so successful. Among the news clips associated with Michal's death were the scenes surrounding his trial. What a circus performance by MJ--the costumes, the dancing on top of a car, the adulation by the throngs. All this in the wake of very serious charges of a most despicable nature! MJ was clearly flaunting his celebrity status and more or less shouting, 'I'm too rich and famous to be held accountable for my actions'! Where was the respect for the seriousness of these proceedings and the child involved, either by MJ or his adoring fans! In addition to this, it is impossible for me to listen to the song 'Beat It' without knowing what that song really alluded to and even though it is a very catchy, fun to listen to song, the underlying sleaze is a complete turn off. But, like so many others, my forgiving nature, compassion, and empathy as to all the factors in Michael's life compels me to overlook these things. Is 'sucker' written on my forehead and is this one of the many ways the psychopaths accomplish their mission? How do I reconcile myself to this without losing my capacity for compassion and forgiveness?

 

[salleles]

Is this for real? What kind of objectivity could be obtained by accusing someone who did not jump on the bandwagon, because of unknown reasons? And much worse, because of a rather innocent joke?

If you were truly sorry and truly felt guilty, as you said you are/feel, then you would start to DO something NOW

If you want to have different results in your life then you have to change something.

This last post stands out from his usual wirtting style. It seems forced and artificial, well insincere as already said.

The last part of your last post, about feeling guilty for not DOing or helping, and hoping this will change, sounded to me like quite an automatic, reactionary response. I think it was a way to avoid working on yourself.

Word salad, anyone?

 

[Rabelais]

As for SAO's joke, the way i see it, it was not as much insulting for the dead MJ, as it was for the feelings of the people who were really fond of him. But what is written in the news links that Rabelais posted -for example- is really more insulting IMO, as all this wondering gossip about the reasons he died, his health, religion, family life and the lot, constitute the real and profane moral looting of the dead Micheal, in a degree that no single joke can achieve.

The mainstream media has never been a source of empathic sensitivity, but it sometimes gives us glimpses of factors which reveal the objective reality of the situation for those with eyes that see.

If you perceive these revelations as insulting, that is certainly your prerogative and I can empathize with those feelings, but they could well be pertinent realities which surround this event, which could give us insights into the true nature of our illusion. Until someone presents evidence which convincingly refutes this information, I will continue to consider them as possible, nay, likely factors in the death of this icon... and the post mortem division of his wealth.

I am at a loss to determine what it is in these articles that you consider "gossip".

 

[Z...]

Salleles the "innocent joke part" was IMO covered quite well so maybe you should reread the thread.

It seems you are missing a few important points...
first of all nobody accused SAO of anything.
please read this again:

First, i think i have benefited and been inspired quite a few times from SAO's posts myself. I consider him to be a very intelligent and sensitive person with really great potential. If i am allowed to hypothesize, this may be the very reason why Laura and the others are "pushing" him through their mirroring to DO more... Coming from the right people, this can even be considered a compliment! Still, SAO's last post stands in contrast to his usual writing style and does seem a bit "artificial" to me too. But trying to put myself in SAO's shoes, and taking into account how much we all respect and value the opinion of Laura and many others in this forum, i reckon it would be quite a healthy shock for me too to receive their mirroring in this thread, and mainly their comments about Doing (or not-Doing). Still, we should consider these moments as the most useful part of mirroring and as an opportunity to grow.

Does this make any sense?

Further, what you quite insultingly termed as a "word salad" is the normal reaction to the false I. You have been around for quite some time and I am sure you have seen it before.

So what it is in this mirror that has pushed your buttons Salleles ?

As to Rabelais reply I think Spyraal didn't want to say that your post was insulting but he/she wanted to give example how SAO's joke seems insignificant in comparison with the scale of dirt and web of deceptions woven around MJ. FWIW that is how I read Spyraal's post