VERY good advice, Nienna Eluch! Hang in there, Menna. And if you want to talk or need any help or feedback, we're always here. :)
Must not be doing it right
- Thread starter Menna
- Start date
Menna
The Living Force
Yes it is very true during the dating phase of a relationship it is important for me to be more discerning and vigilant as to knowing what I want and knowing if its there in the other person before I enter into a relationship. This was my first relationship and I believe wishful thinking and sacred cows played a roll in my first relationship. With the smoking I thought "I will treat her so well she will love me of course she will want to stop for me for the good of the relationship." With the guy friend "There relationship will die down if ours get stronger." these are all statements based on nothing no facts.
In my defense the smoking started to bother me and the guy friend started to become an issue as my feelings for her increased so in my mind I wasn't going to let these petty issues destroy my love for her destroy my first/our relationship - I believe that is self importance.
I also found out other stuff about her as I got deeper into the relationship as my feelings for her got stronger. 10months into the relationship I found out she was on daily anti anxiety meds along with me seeing that she is very self centered i.e. breaking up with me on Christmas then asking for her present before she left.
I guess that is just normal procedure if you go out with someone and they aren’t upfront about everything that will impact a relationship. As your feelings increase so does your knowledge about the other person.
Nothing worth anything is easy and yes I have a new skill set (more confidence/different perspective/experience) after this relationship and I will use it moving forward
In my defense the smoking started to bother me and the guy friend started to become an issue as my feelings for her increased so in my mind I wasn't going to let these petty issues destroy my love for her destroy my first/our relationship - I believe that is self importance.
I also found out other stuff about her as I got deeper into the relationship as my feelings for her got stronger. 10months into the relationship I found out she was on daily anti anxiety meds along with me seeing that she is very self centered i.e. breaking up with me on Christmas then asking for her present before she left.
I guess that is just normal procedure if you go out with someone and they aren’t upfront about everything that will impact a relationship. As your feelings increase so does your knowledge about the other person.
Nothing worth anything is easy and yes I have a new skill set (more confidence/different perspective/experience) after this relationship and I will use it moving forward
truth seeker
The Living Force
It sounds from what you wrote that for whatever reason, she may have felt afraid or even ashamed of revealing that she was on medication for anxiety. Perhaps you can someday come to think of it as her own wounding she couldn't get past. The asking for the present is unusual, however.Menna said:
As others have mentioned, this may be a good opportunity for you to begin to look into your own wounding as a child. This may help you to understand what it was about her that attracted you to her. It's only when we begin to understand our own programs that we can start to break the pattern of these lessons. It may also help you in terms of having a bit more understanding of others - why they do what they do. We're all sts. This includes all of us being self centered in our own way.
This forum is a good place to explore your own issues if you choose. As has also been said, we're here if you need it. There's nothing wrong with showing vulnerability to others. In fact, there's really a strength in it. Unfortunately because of society, we quite often see it as being weak and people can feel as if they're losing something. All that is really lost is the mask we hold up to the world. When we finally decide to let go of it, we find freedom and real love (or something closer to sto).
Menna
The Living Force
It was my first relationship, first sexual experience, first girl that I dated for more than 6 weeks. The fact that she kept on agreeing to see me made me sooo happy the fact that someone wanted to be in a relationship with me made me feel great and then things started to arise and what not. Its like I was starving and all I wanted was a cracker it tasted great best cracker in the world that’s because I was starving. I am thinking about the relationship what I should take away from it and what I should stop thinking about.
1) Don't overextend myself too much because then I expect something back and I start to build resentment if I feel I am not getting enough back. Give when asked and give up to a certain extent for me.
2) Enjoy every moment with people closest to you. Because it can end at anytime even when you don’t expect it.
That’s what I got so far
1) Don't overextend myself too much because then I expect something back and I start to build resentment if I feel I am not getting enough back. Give when asked and give up to a certain extent for me.
2) Enjoy every moment with people closest to you. Because it can end at anytime even when you don’t expect it.
That’s what I got so far
truth seeker
The Living Force
I do agree with the second statement but not so sure about the first.Menna said:
Maybe something more like: Try to accept people for who they are and give without expectation of receiving something back - in other words without strings? I 'think' if this is attempted with all people (and this is easier said than done) at the beginning, with a bit of discernment, the signs may become easier to see. There is no easy answer. That's why it's called the Work.
You said being in a relationship at the beginning was like giving a starving person food. Do you know what it was you felt you were starving for? What did you feel you lacked that could only be gotten from outside of you?
truth seeker said:
Number 1 caught my attention too. If you're helping others with the expectation that you get something in return, you're not operating 'from the right place'. Wouldn't it be similar to: "I'll love you, if/when you love me back OR if you change your behavior, e.g. stop smoking" That's conditioned love, and it's very common, but for someone doing the Work, this is something to look into and see where it's coming from.
As Truth Seeker said, and as I've experienced it myself, it isn't easy and as 3D inhabitants we will probably never fully 'get there', i.e. to be STO-beings. But if we keep working and doing our best (that's aligned with our choice; STS/STO), then we have a chance to evolve. But, as I see it, one of the biggest problems is that manipulative people are exploiting this 'helping with no strings attached', and I guess in part you were saying this - that you don't want to be used and manipulated?
Menna
The Living Force
Yes I am not saying #1 is a positive or good statement it is something I have learned about myself (I dont like it). When in a relationship. If I were to create balance in me between my emotions I would still be a giving partner but next time a little less. Compromise or do what’s best for me a little more. I also have to communicate better be more open about my dislikes.
I lacked being close to/intimate with another person, spend most of my time with a female partner. Share experiences see if we could grow together have fun. Never did any of that before wanted to see what it was like. I was doing those things. Felt great. Just had a general interest in what it was like to be in a relationship.
I lacked being close to/intimate with another person, spend most of my time with a female partner. Share experiences see if we could grow together have fun. Never did any of that before wanted to see what it was like. I was doing those things. Felt great. Just had a general interest in what it was like to be in a relationship.
Hi Menna,
Just a fwiw, these are difficult things to face for anyone, especially during this season, yet you know this and have asked others for their thoughts. In reading the replies, think that truth seeker offered some thoughts of great value here, which of course apply to many of us; as did the others working through their own responses to you.
Just as an aside, however biologically connected, and possibly of value for you to examine if not already acquainted, are a few posts in ‘Cupid’s Poison Arrow’ which can be found here http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21030.msg217538.html#msg217538 that explores the neurochemistry of pair bonding and the difficulties that can arise. There is also a presentation from the book here that you may or may not find interesting to evaluate.
_http://www.reuniting.info/download/The%20Hidden%20Factor%20in%20Relationship%20Disharmony.swf
Healthy lasting relationships need to encompass great awareness of our personal selves and that of our partners with a collinear exchange between being paramount. The neurochemistry that influences; either sexually initiated or by food born catalysts such as sugars, can bear huge weight on our emotional perceptions that wax & wane through our daily, weekly and so on interactions. If both partners have a good understanding of these mechanisms and pause to evaluate, it can help, osit.
Just a fwiw, these are difficult things to face for anyone, especially during this season, yet you know this and have asked others for their thoughts. In reading the replies, think that truth seeker offered some thoughts of great value here, which of course apply to many of us; as did the others working through their own responses to you.
Just as an aside, however biologically connected, and possibly of value for you to examine if not already acquainted, are a few posts in ‘Cupid’s Poison Arrow’ which can be found here http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21030.msg217538.html#msg217538 that explores the neurochemistry of pair bonding and the difficulties that can arise. There is also a presentation from the book here that you may or may not find interesting to evaluate.
_http://www.reuniting.info/download/The%20Hidden%20Factor%20in%20Relationship%20Disharmony.swf
Healthy lasting relationships need to encompass great awareness of our personal selves and that of our partners with a collinear exchange between being paramount. The neurochemistry that influences; either sexually initiated or by food born catalysts such as sugars, can bear huge weight on our emotional perceptions that wax & wane through our daily, weekly and so on interactions. If both partners have a good understanding of these mechanisms and pause to evaluate, it can help, osit.
G
Gertrudes
Guest
Menna, I'm sorry to hear of what you're going through.
I agree with what everyone has said so far, and will only add a few words:
I want to second what truth seeker said here. Just to give you an example, I have been on the other side of the relationship, as the one who has a problem her partner doesn't know about. This wasn't specifically with meds, but a problem nevertheless. It took me nearly 12 years of knowing him, and more then 5 years of actually being together before telling him. It took me that much to accept my own issues about it, and to have the courage to let him know. The biggest gift I could have ever had was his total acceptance. He didn't take it personally, because it had absolutely nothing to do with him, it was all about how I dealt with the specific problem. Having felt accepted and respected made me deal with it much better afterwards.
This may not have been what happened with her, but one more perspective you may wish to ponder.
A very important question, I think. Maybe you know this already but, from my experience, when we are starving for something we become much more vulnerable and will tend to accept what we may not otherwise accept, because our discernment is impaired. From the way you wrote about it it seems that you're also seeing this. Most, if not all of us do it or have done it, if not with a relationship, with something else. I sure did! The important thing is to see what's lacking inside that is causing for us to look externally which such vehemence.
About how much to give. I agree with the others that one of the keys is in giving without strings attached. Also, as I currently see it, giving should be the result of a fine tuning process where one is constantly observing his/her partner's behavior and words, and adapting how, and what to give accordingly.
As an example, and not necessarily accurately reflective of the dynamic present in your relationship, sometimes we think that the more we give, the better. Well, maybe what we're giving in those circumstances hasn't been asked for, and the "gift" becomes a heavy burden that the receiver has to carry, and will tend to reject. The giver feels the rejection at some level, and may perceive it as something to be fixed with more "giving", and keeps enforcing his/her views/gifts on the other partie. Which leads to greater rejection and distancing.
Take good care Menna. I know this is probably a very difficult time, but I'm glad that you're sharing about it, as it also a great opportunity for learning.
Edit: added words for clarity
I agree with what everyone has said so far, and will only add a few words:
truth seeker said:
I want to second what truth seeker said here. Just to give you an example, I have been on the other side of the relationship, as the one who has a problem her partner doesn't know about. This wasn't specifically with meds, but a problem nevertheless. It took me nearly 12 years of knowing him, and more then 5 years of actually being together before telling him. It took me that much to accept my own issues about it, and to have the courage to let him know. The biggest gift I could have ever had was his total acceptance. He didn't take it personally, because it had absolutely nothing to do with him, it was all about how I dealt with the specific problem. Having felt accepted and respected made me deal with it much better afterwards.
This may not have been what happened with her, but one more perspective you may wish to ponder.
truth seeker said:
A very important question, I think. Maybe you know this already but, from my experience, when we are starving for something we become much more vulnerable and will tend to accept what we may not otherwise accept, because our discernment is impaired. From the way you wrote about it it seems that you're also seeing this. Most, if not all of us do it or have done it, if not with a relationship, with something else. I sure did! The important thing is to see what's lacking inside that is causing for us to look externally which such vehemence.
About how much to give. I agree with the others that one of the keys is in giving without strings attached. Also, as I currently see it, giving should be the result of a fine tuning process where one is constantly observing his/her partner's behavior and words, and adapting how, and what to give accordingly.
As an example, and not necessarily accurately reflective of the dynamic present in your relationship, sometimes we think that the more we give, the better. Well, maybe what we're giving in those circumstances hasn't been asked for, and the "gift" becomes a heavy burden that the receiver has to carry, and will tend to reject. The giver feels the rejection at some level, and may perceive it as something to be fixed with more "giving", and keeps enforcing his/her views/gifts on the other partie. Which leads to greater rejection and distancing.
Take good care Menna. I know this is probably a very difficult time, but I'm glad that you're sharing about it, as it also a great opportunity for learning.
Edit: added words for clarity
Iron
Dagobah Resident
I want to add Menna, think if you are able to receive when people give to you, or if you feel inadequate or burdened by what is being given. If you see yourself as "a giver, not a taker".
You seem to think that you can fix, or rescue people.
Keep on doing EE during these difficult times, the pipe breath is most valuable!
Maybe its a little to soon to make definitive statements about what you learned or whatnot, there is still too much emotions flowing around. Take your time to feel... even the negative emotions.
After that, perhaps some reading to understand yourself better is in order.
This article deals with some of the questions I think you have. Let me know if it was helpful or not.
http://www.sharischreiber.com/needlove.html
You seem to think that you can fix, or rescue people.
Keep on doing EE during these difficult times, the pipe breath is most valuable!
Maybe its a little to soon to make definitive statements about what you learned or whatnot, there is still too much emotions flowing around. Take your time to feel... even the negative emotions.
After that, perhaps some reading to understand yourself better is in order.
This article deals with some of the questions I think you have. Let me know if it was helpful or not.
http://www.sharischreiber.com/needlove.html
Graalsword
Jedi Council Member
You can even do some kind of recapitulation, remembering the emotions you had at the beginning of the relationship, your subjective expectations, etc. What happened next, etc.
As well as putting yourself in her place, how would you feel if you were her, and you had had a partner like you.
As well as putting yourself in her place, how would you feel if you were her, and you had had a partner like you.
Iron
Dagobah Resident
Menna said:
"Rescue" in the sense that you know best what is better for them.
Since most of these patterns operate outside of awareness, you would do well to take a look at the thread here at the forum about the Adaptive Unconscious, as well as the article from Shari Schreiber that I posted above, that deals with the psychological part from an analyst point of view.
Are you doing EE? Or at least pipe breathing?
Menna
The Living Force
I see sort of like a narcissistic thing...
In my defense smoking toxic cigs are just that toxic. I told her about tobacco cigs and other things that could serve as a replacement. If doing something everyday that is toxic for your body is what’s best for you then that doesn't make sense to me hence why I wanted her to quit or change to other healthier vices... That’s the only thing I wanted to change. I couldn’t help how I felt with her saying I love you to her guy friend late at night I just communicated how I felt to her I didn’t say she cant speak to him or restrict her in anyway. Just that I didn’t like it.
But anyway we are going around in circles whats done is done…
I am starting EE what also helps is that my friends are here to support ive been going out and socializing. Its only been a few days but she is a memory now and I would like to keep it that way. No contact since Christmas day
In my defense smoking toxic cigs are just that toxic. I told her about tobacco cigs and other things that could serve as a replacement. If doing something everyday that is toxic for your body is what’s best for you then that doesn't make sense to me hence why I wanted her to quit or change to other healthier vices... That’s the only thing I wanted to change. I couldn’t help how I felt with her saying I love you to her guy friend late at night I just communicated how I felt to her I didn’t say she cant speak to him or restrict her in anyway. Just that I didn’t like it.
But anyway we are going around in circles whats done is done…
I am starting EE what also helps is that my friends are here to support ive been going out and socializing. Its only been a few days but she is a memory now and I would like to keep it that way. No contact since Christmas day
truth seeker
The Living Force
Whatever an individual chooses to do is 'right' for them because it's their right - their free will. Have you ever done something that others thought were wrong and then tried to change you? If you can imagine that, perhaps you will get a glimpse of how she felt.Menna said:
I'll add that unless and until you begin to understand what drew you to her, you will continue to repeat the past lessons. That's how life works. It's good that you've chosen to not communicate with her.Menna said:
I'll try and clarify and expound a bit on Iron's statement regarding rescuing (correct me if I'm off in my interpretation of what you said, Iron). The way I understand it is that you were attempting to rescue her from what you felt were her problems - what she was doing 'wrong'.
The savior program (which many of us have), can be an attempt to feed that part of us that wants to feel good. To me, it's a projection of the wounded child who was often made to feel bad/wrong when growing up. Essentially, it's a way we use to try and right the wrongs of the past. Quite often with this program, we end up vacillating between viewing ourselves as 'bad' (the way we were made to feel via our parents) and viewing others as 'bad' or their actions as 'wrong'. It can become a bit of a narcissistic fixation when we constantly look for faults within others in order to unconsciously make us feel better about ourselves. Hopefully that's clear.
