Part of Polish gov members including president probably dead in plane crash

[Possibility of Being]

It's going to be a big press conference in half an hour by the Polish PM and related ministers reporting on the government, prosecutors, and investigators actions taken since the crash. We'll see what they decide to say and if they provide any hard data.

 

[Vulcan59]

It's going to be a big press conference in half an hour by the Polish PM and related ministers reporting on the government, prosecutors, and investigators actions taken since the crash. We'll see what they decide to say and if they provide any hard data.

Hi POB,

Was there anything new that came out during the press conference?

 

[Possibility of Being]

Hi POB,
Was there anything new that came out during the press conference?

Nothing. It needs a master to talk for 90 minutes and say nothing, doesn't it?

Basically, that's his message: no details will be revealed until the investigation is finished; the cooperation with the Russian party is better than legally required; the Polish investigators cannot demand anything as Russia would feel offended and could begin making problems; we trust Russian officials and investigators completely. Oh, and Tusk's will is to reveal as much data as possible and as soon as possible (but nothing is possible at the moment). Blah blah...

General Public Prosecutor's Office together with Chief Military Prosecutor's Office issued a report on the investigation. Here you can find its Google translation, it's not very good, but it can give you a general idea, I hope. Again, nothing is known, not even the exact time of the crash (somewhere between 8:30 and 8:56), and they will consider all possible options, a third party involvement included (a cookie for those rising too many inconvenient questions).

So much about the official part. Aside from the very fact that the officials should not have been all together on one plane and the pilot should not have tried to land in such fog, the main question still remains the same: How the heck did they manage to descend so much below the minima? Especially, given that up to the distance of 1500 meters form the threshold they have been following the glide slope almost perfectly and only then began to descend much too fast. With wrong instruments setting, wouldn't they have been below the glide slope all way long? Well, assuming the information (at 1,5 km everything was OK) that came from Russians is true... :/

 

[Vulcan59]

Thanks for the update POB. Nothing new it seems.

Reading what you wrote, made me realise that perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough in the previous pages about the altimeter settings. By my reckoning, the aircraft was low even before the 1.5km point. I'll cut the jargon and simplify the explanations and assume the altimeters were working perfectly and there were no other errors.

The altimeter measures altitude above a datum. Datum can be viewed as, where is the altimeter measuring from. The datum can be sea level, airfield level or a standard value. The datum is set in the altimeter which allows it to read the altitude. This datum is a pressure value either in hectopascals or millibars.

So imagine that we have an airfield that is at sea level (zero feet). If I now set the datum in the altimeter at sea level and I am on the airfield, the altimeter will also show zero feet.

Now imagine that we have an airfield which is 100 feet high as measured from sea level. If I now set my altimeter datum to sea level, the altimeter on the airfield will show 100 feet but if I set the datum to the airfield, it will read zero feet. So it becomes important that the pilot knows which datum is set.

So in this disaster, it seems that the pilot had set sea level datum but for whatever reason, mistook it as airfield datum. Therefore according to the chart, at 6.10km from the runway, the aircraft should have been at 300 meters above the airfield, not sea level. Likewise at 1.10km from the runway it should have been 70 meters above the airfield and not sea level.

Assuming he had set sea level as the datum, than 300 meters at the 6.10 km point would have been only 79 meters above the airfield since the airfield is 221 meters above sea level. The altimeter would have been correctly showing 300 meters (since it is measuring from sea level) when in fact the aircraft was actually only 79m above the airfield! That would be way too low. And so the aircraft continued on that trajectory until it hit the tree at about the 1km point from the runway.

Hopefully this is a clearer explanation and it helps explains how this disaster could have happened. :)

 

[Possibility of Being]

Assuming he had set sea level as the datum, than 300 meters at the 6.10 km point would have been only 79 meters above the airfield since the airfield is 221 meters above sea level. The altimeter would have been correctly showing 300 meters (since it is measuring from sea level) when in fact the aircraft was actually only 79m above the airfield! That would be way too low. And so the aircraft continued on that trajectory until it hit the tree at about the 1km point from the runway.

Hopefully this is a clearer explanation and it helps explains how this disaster could have happened. :)

Hi Vulcan,
Thanks for your patience :) but now, I'm completely confused. :(

I'm confused because I believe I understand your idea correctly and your explanation only confirms that. But you seem to see that I do NOT get the idea! What is it that I can't see???

Do I understand correctly that what you are saying is that in your scenario, the aircraft was actually too low at the 6.10 km point and at any further point, i.e. it was approaching with the, say, 3 deg descending path which would be perfect if followed about 62m higher?

If that's correct, then how to explain the fact that the Russian controller could see the aircraft on his radar as being at the right altitude up to the 1.5 km point, and only after passing that point, the a/c increased rapidly its vertical speed which made the controller warn the pilot and ask him to level the plane? And it was then that the Polish crew stopped talking back to the the tower. At least that's what we know from Russian sources...

 

[Vulcan59]

Hi POB,

Oops, apologies if I caused more confusion. Assuming that the altimeter datum was set at sea level, then yes, the pilot would have been low throughout the entire approach and not only from the 1.5km point inwards to the runway. Also this approach is not your typical 3 degrees approach but instead it's only 2.4 degrees, which basically means that it's a shallower approach.

If that's correct, then how to explain the fact that the Russian controller could see the aircraft on his radar as being at the right altitude up to the 1.5 km point, and only after passing that point, the a/c increased rapidly its vertical speed which made the controller warn the pilot and ask him to level the plane? And it was then that the Polish crew stopped talking back to the the tower. At least that's what we know from Russian sources...

Okay this is the first time I am reading this, but in any case, I don't understand this statement. A tower controller does not have radar. The approach controller does have radar and usually the two are not in the same room simply because of the radar equipment. So at the 1.5km point, the pilot would be with the tower controller who would have no idea whether the aircraft was high or low. Something doesn't add up if this is the official story. Perhaps it's better to wait for the official story and then work things out from there. Hopefully the official story will have data rather than someone's version of it. :)

 

[PopHistorian]

Among all the "channeled sources" out there, I could find only one mention of this incident from beyond. Spirit Matthew on April 26:

However, as likely as it may seem that the Illuminati were behind the plane crash and the deaths of Poland’s president and other government, military and national leaders, that is not the case. The pre-birth agreements of all those persons included their leaving en masse at this time for two reasons: This tragic loss to the people of Poland will inspire them to lift their sights for their country’s course; and investigation into the cause of the crash will lead into avenues where corruption, deception and betrayal exist so those can be brought to light.

Pretty strange. If the PTB was behind it, then this would be rather twisty disinformation, which says the PTB didn't do it, so don't look into it, because others will and it will lead them to discover corruption. Well, if not among the PTB, then who? It's especially odd because Spirit Matthew and the Nidle and Quinsey Cosmic CoIntelPro drones have been going on and on and on all year about how massive disclosures of official corruption are just about upon us and to expect Nuremberg-style mass trials of government crooks, as, of course, "the light" comes streaming in and sets us all free.

 

[Windmill knight]

However, as likely as it may seem that the Illuminati were behind the plane crash and the deaths of Poland’s president and other government, military and national leaders, that is not the case. The pre-birth agreements of all those persons included their leaving en masse at this time for two reasons: This tragic loss to the people of Poland will inspire them to lift their sights for their country’s course; and investigation into the cause of the crash will lead into avenues where corruption, deception and betrayal exist so those can be brought to light.

And I suppose we are meant to believe that the souls of the entire Polish elite were so benevolent that they sacrificed themselves for a noble cause. Spirit Matthew needs to start reading Sott to learn more about the true nature of the world's elites.

 

[Niall]

An analysis of the video has surfaced. I think it's arguing that gunmen can be seen in the background, though it's hard to make them out. You can certainly hear what sound like gunshots though.

Digital Enhancement Of Amateur Plane Crash Site Footage (w / English Subtitles) In Smolensk:

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk&feature=player_embedded

 

[Possibility of Being]

An analysis of the video has surfaced. I think it's arguing that gunmen can be seen in the background, though it's hard to make them out. You can certainly hear what sound like gunshots though.

The official stand is that there are no signs of the video been manipulated, but because it has been compressed and its format changed a few times, the possible evidence of manipulation could have been lost; nothing more can be said at the stage of investigation. In other words, that leaves it for every one to think what they want to. Very convenient, isn't it?

I can be waaaay off, but based on my limited knowledge of the crash circumstances (although I spent a lot of time during last weeks on reading and digging), my best guess is that's the video (most likely fake) has been more or less deliberately put up there for the public so to stir in the pot. They (whoever they are) must have a great deal of dirt to hide. Or/and they have a good reason to incite Poles against Russians. The question is: qui bono?

{with strong emphasis on IMO and FWIW} ;)

 

[Andrew]

I just found this on YouTube after watching the video on the latest Connecting the Dots.
I think it's worth sharing since it enhances the visual view, shows people operating in the back
ground of the plane crash, and with the english transcription seems to indicate what survivors
were left were immediately shot by those running around in the background.

I don't know if this is the proper section in the forum to place this so moderators please place
in appropriate category if this one is not correct.

Here's the video, make sure to watch it in 480p:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk

 

[lostinself]

someone has created even more enhanced version of the video in which the camera shakes have been eliminated. now one can clearly see figures walking behind the plane fragments (at 0:20 and 0:26), one wearing a red jacket. the video can be watched in 720p.

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeFPHDxOXYo

 

[Possibility of Being]

I just found this on YouTube after watching the video on the latest Connecting the Dots.
I think it's worth sharing since it enhances the visual view, shows people operating in the back
ground of the plane crash, and with the english transcription seems to indicate what survivors
were left were immediately shot by those running around in the background.

Hmm, it happens that I know some Russian and some Polish too, and have to say that most of the English transcription doesn't match the original track. By "original" I mean the first ever version of that video put up on YouTube, since we don't know for sure whether it was really original recording or a manipulated material, do we?

By the way, some Russian guys on a Smolensk forum tried hard to decipher the audio track and came up with what they call the most likely transcript:

00:43 - Уходим отсюда, уходим!
00:48 - Давайте на..й отсюда! Идите отсюда!
01:00 - Ни..я себе!
01:12 - Все назад, уходим отсюда!
01:19 - Отец, уходи, всё, уходим.
01:21 - Ни..я себе!
(Generally: "Go away from here", "Move back", "Let's go away".)

 

[cholas]

my best guess is that's the video (most likely fake) has been more or less deliberately put up there for the public so to stir in the pot. They (whoever they are) must have a great deal of dirt to hide. Or/and they have a good reason to incite Poles against Russians.

Yes your guess seems pretty plausible. Throw in the rumor that the man who shot the video was soon thereafter murdered(or maybe he really was?) and things start looking very much like an intentionally-created pot-stirring drama for public consumption.

Even if the actual 'accident' was just that, which is hard to believe.

 

[Possibility of Being]

Even if the actual 'accident' was just that, which is hard to believe.

Hey cholas, I'm curious if you had a chance to read the latest Connecting the Dots installment? It clarifies a little bit the whole crash story, as it seems to me.

Here is another good one. It reads:

Though tragic, this was hardly a heroic death. Few will say it, but this was a stupid and useless crash. Calling it heroic dodges responsibility and prevents the development of measures for avoiding future disasters.

Not everyone agrees with the glorification of Mr. Kaczynski’s death. The well-known psychologist Wojciech Eichelberger was one of the first to express disdain for the reaction in the press, saying we should not confuse stupidity with heroism. ...

I'm not saying that with 100% certainty "the actual 'accident' was just that", but let's not forget that sometimes a horse is just a horse :)

If anything, and given the madness all over around, I'd think about some kind of energy affecting both, human minds, and instruments...