Russian Passenger Plane Crashes Over Egypt

[Keit]

Israeli trace is also quite symbolic though.

Well, just read in Russian that ISIS took responsibility for the crash. Apparently it was reported by Reuters. Russian TV says that it is ridiculous, because not only they don't have the means, the plane was also too high for that.

But who knows, considering the fact that we know who's behind ISIS.

 

[MrEightFive]

Dirgni, spot on!
There is a LOT of symbolism in that Economist cover. Remember, "TPTB" usually tell us what they are planning to do beforehand. There we have 5-3 sequence symbolism and whatnot. With "Alice in the Wonderland" (4D reality) to boot.

"TPTB" have not many cards to play left for them. One of them, which is still potentially hugely affective, is a world-wide economic/financial meltdown/collapse. They haven't played that card yet, but time is running out for them because all economic data indicate steady recession already. If they won't institute "collapse" soon, they may miss their window for it to have proper devastating effect.

11/5 -> 11/3 sequence: _http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/19/lew-i-worry-there-could-be-a-debt-limit-accident-that-could-be-terrible.html

Treasury Secretary Jack Lew said Monday he worries that waiting until the last minute to raise the nation's borrowing authority could result in an accident "that would be terrible."

Last week, Lew said the U.S. debt ceiling will be exhausted Nov. 3, two days before previously estimated. In a letter to congressional leaders, he added that a remaining cash balance of less than $30 billion would swiftly deplete.

"Our best estimate is November 3rd is when we'll exhaust what we call extraordinary measures; those are things we can do to manage things. I will run out of things that I can manage on November 3rd," Lew told CNBC's "Squawk Box."

Then he explained, “I just wrote a letter last week to Congress telling them that the date is November 3, but a few weeks ago we thought the date was November 5.”

 

[thorbiorn]

Found this on the following site:

_http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-31/no-survivors-after-russian-airplane-224-board-crashes-egypts-sinai-peninsula_

Breaking: #IS claims responsibility for #Russia's plane crash in #Egypt pic.twitter.com/wNx7asGm40
— China Xinhua News (@XHNews) October 31, 2015

If true, this would point towards this being a pointed message to Russia.

Of course, even if the Empire didn't 'do' it, needless to say, they'd probably like certain parties to think they - I mean, IS - purposely did it.

True, but the Egyptian and Russian authorities deny this:

ISIS claims responsibility for Russian jet crash: Victims 'found over three-mile radius' after plane with 224 on board crashes in Egypt leaving no survivors - but officials blame 'technical fault'

Still planes are advised to avoid the Sinai peninsula:

FAA to airlines: avoid flying below FL260 over Egypt Sinai PeninsulaThe United States FAA issued a Notam, warning U.S. airlines to avoid flying below FL260 over the Egypt Sinai Peninsula due to security concerns.

The FAA states that international civil air routes that transit the Cairo (HECC) Flight Information Region (FIR) over the Sinai Peninsula and aircraft operating to and from Sinai airports are at risk from potential extremist attacks involving antiaircraft weapons, to include Man-Portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS), small arms fire, and indirect fire from mortars and rockets targeting Sinai airports. Some of these weapons have the capability to target aircraft at high altitudes and/or upon approach and departure. The militant group Ansar Bait al-Maqdis (ABM) has shot down an Egyptian Mi-17 military helicopter flying at low altitude using MANPADS, in January 2014. Although MANPADS have not been used to target civil aircraft in the Sinai, they could be used to potentially engage civil aviation. Attacks against aircraft in-flight or weapons fire targeting Sinai airports can occur with little or no warning.

Based on this information, the FAA advises airlines and operators to avoid flying below FL260 in this area.

The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) issued a similar warning in November 2014, recommending all operators to take any available information into account in their risk assessments and routeing decisions if planning to fly into, out of, within or over the North Sinai Governorate of Egypt and to monitor all relevant information, including NOTAMs.[...]

 

[Nević Nenad]

Mosad never sleeps . . .

 

[seek10]

RT has a good chronological reporting at https://www.rt.com/news/320225-plane-crash-russian-egypt/

some items that peeked my curiosity. Most are mentioned in this thread. It looks things are moving fast, black box is already identified in this rarely populated desert and investigation is underway.
31 Oct 2015

08:21 GMT
The Russian Embassy in Egypt has begin its own inquiry. Is says any new information will be reported to the media immediately.

08:21 GMT
Egyptian aviation authorities now say the Russia-bound plane is safe. After a brief radio silence, the pilot made contact with Turkish air traffic control, and is now believed to be flying in the country's air space.

"The ... Russian airline had told us that the Russian plane we lost contact with is safe and that it has contacted Turkish air traffic control and is passing through Turkish skies now," Ayman al-Muqaddam, the head of the central air traffic accident authority in Egypt, told reporters in a statement.

08:21 GMT
Egypt air traffic control loses contact with civilian airliner believed to be carrying 212 passengers on board, mainly Russian citizens. The plane took off from Sharm el-Sheikh and was headed to Russia, according to aviation sources speaking to Reuters.

A search operation has been launched.
...
08:46 GMT
The airliner does appear to have crashed. Egyptian rescue teams report finding debris in southern Arish, in the Sinai, according to the country's aviation authority.

09:06 GMT
Egyptian authorities say the plane was traveling at an altitude of 31,000 feet when it vanished from radar.


The teams who located the plane say it was mangled almost beyond recognition. It would be difficult to imagine anyone surviving the impact, a security officer at the scene told Reuters.

09:34 GMT

Shows a few other aircraft in the area at the time of the incident. Air Kolavia #7K9268 http://planefinder.net/flight/KGL9268

09:59 GMT
Voices of trapped passengers were reportedly heard in one section of the Russia-bound Airbus 320, according to an officer at the scene.

"There is another section of the plane with passengers inside that the rescue team is still trying to enter and we hope to find survivors especially after hearing pained voices of people inside," the officer, who chose to remain unnamed, told Reuters.

10:55 GMT
The black boxes have been uncovered at the scene of the Kolavia A321 crash, Al Jazeera reports, citing sources on the ground.

11:11 GMT
Egypt's aviation authority is now refuting earlier claims that on-board recording devices were uncovered in the search of the crash site.

Reuters, however, says the black boxes were indeed found by the rescue workers, citing security sources at the site.


13:39 GMT
According to Egypt's security forces, as cited by Reuters, a technical fault was to blame for the crash.

Search and rescue teams are finding bodies in a radius of up to 5km (3.1 miles) from the crash site. Approximately 150, some burnt, have been pulled out of the wreckage so far.

The sources say the aircraft took almost a vertical trajectory as it plummeted down. Large parts of the fuselage burned in the process.

14:44 GMT
Egypt’s security forces have disproved reports a diversion could have caused the Airbus A321 crash.

The Egyptian president expressed his deepest condolences to Vladimir Putin in a telephone conversation. The Egyptian leader assured the Russian president his country will give Russia all the necessary assistance in the crash investigation.4

15:32 GMT
The Russian Transport Ministry refuted information the Airbus A321 had been shot down by terrorists as “unreliable.”

“Now, different media report… that a Russian passenger airliner on a flight from Sharm El-Sheikh to St. Petersburg has been allegedly shot down by an anti-aircraft missile fired by terrorists. This information cannot be regarded as reliable,” said Russian Transport Minister Maksim Sokolov.

“We are in close contact with our Egyptian colleagues and aviation authorities. They currently have no information that could confirm such allegations,” he added.

16:20 GMT
The Egyptian General Prosecutor’s office has retrieved the black boxes from the crashed plane. They contain the recordings of the conversations between pilots as well as between pilots and flight operations officers, Egyptian newspaper Al Ahram reports.

 

[sToRmR1dR]

Latest updates on Russian plane crush:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egypt-plane-crash-live-kogalymavia-flight-9268-goes-down-in-sinai-with-224-people-on-board-a6716036.html

 

[macyk]

Mikael Robertsson from flight tracking service Flight Radar 24: ''This was something more than a planned diversion'' VIDEO
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34687139

 

[Eboard10]

Mikael Robertsson from flight tracking service Flight Radar 24: ''This was something more than a planned diversion'' VIDEO
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34687139

There is definitely something out of the ordinary happening from what Mikael says in the interview (from second 0:52):

Mikael: The vertical speed from the transponders indicating very fast up and down speeds, which is very unusual. It's hard to say at this point why this happened, but for sure it lost a lot of speed.

News anchor: We've had reports, again all of this is to be confirmed, but from the Russian Embassy in Cairo saying that the pilot was attempting to land at another airport. So that would be presumably consistent with what you found, if there was some kind of technical fault; they decided they better try and land.

Mikael: Yes, but the very sudden drop of speed and altitude indicates that this is something more sudden than planned diversion. This was something happening very very fast.

 

[Mark]

I'm posting 2 versions of CNN's story here in case weird changes start happening to the storyline.


__http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/middleeast/egypt-plane-crash/index.html

First version, from about 8am-ish central time ( modified later in the day, posted below this first one ) :

Cairo (CNN)A Russian passenger airliner crashed early Saturday in the Sinai Peninsula, with 224 people aboard, officials said.

All passengers were killed, the Russian Embassy in Cairo said on Twitter.

Russian state media reported that many of the 217 passengers were Russians returning from vacation. The passengers were reported to include 17 children. There were seven crew members.

The plane had departed the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh in the Sinai on a flight to St. Petersburg, Russia.

Here's what we are learning as the day wears on:

• Al-Ahram, an Egyptian state-run newspaper, quoting medical sources, reports that 100 intact bodies have been recovered and are being prepared for transfer to a morgue in Cairo, but other bodies are in pieces. The recovery of 100 bodies this quickly from a smoldering wreck seems highly unlikely, however.

Relatives react at the St. Petersburg, Russia, airport after news of the crash. [ PIC OMITTED ]

• Bodies of plane crash victims are being recovered from the crash site, the Russian Embassy in Cairo says on its official Twitter account.

• An Egyptian investigation team has reached the crash site of the crashed jet in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, state-run Nile TV reports, citing the minister of civil aviation.

• Airbus, the plane's maker, issues a statement on Twitter: "We are aware of the media reports," the tweet reads. "Efforts are now going towards assessing the situation. We'll provide more information as soon as available."

Russian investigation ordered
• Russian President Vladimir Putin declares an official day of mourning Sunday for victims of the crash, the Kremlin says. And he is ordering Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev to open an investigation into the crash.

• The Northern Sinai medical department declares a state of emergency, according to Al-Ahram. The Prime Minister's office reports that 50 ambulances have been dispatched to the area, which is mountainous.

• The Russian emergency ministry will send five planes to the area to help with possible rescues and the investigation. Russia has opened a hotline for relatives, many of whom have already gathered at the airport in St. Petersburg.


• Russia 24, a state-owned news channel, and other Russian media outlets are saying the pilot reported technical problems and requested a landing at the nearest airport before the plane went missing. Officials have not corroborated those reports.

• Russia 24 also quotes the FlightRadar 24 website as saying the plane was descending at a rate of 1,800 meters per minute, or 67 mph, before radar contact was lost.

• Weather in the area was clear, CNN reports.

• The Egyptian Prime Minister meets with ministers and security officials regarding the crash. An ISIS-aligned insurgency is active in parts of Sinai, but there is no initial indication it played any role in the crash.

Plane was at 31,000 feet when contact was lost
• The crash site is in the northern part of Sinai, near a town called Housna -- 300 kilometers (185 miles) from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, the Egyptian Prime Minister's office says Egyptian air force planes have spotted the crash site from the air, officials say.

• Two-hundred twenty-four people were reported to be aboard, including 217 passengers and seven crew members. The passengers include d17 children. The Belarus Ministry of Foreign Affairs said its embassy in Egypt is working to determine whether Belarusians were on board.

• The airliner was on its way from Sharm el-Sheikh, at the southern tip of the Sinai Peninsula, to St. Petersburg, according to Sputnik International, an official Russian news agency.

• Egyptian air traffic control says it lost contact with the airliner 23 minutes after takeoff, Sputnik reports. Many of the passengers are reported to be Russians returning from vacations. The plane disappeared at 6:20 a.m. local time.

• The plane was flying at 31,000 feet when it disappeared from radar screens, the Egyptian civil aviation ministry says.

• The plane, Kogalymavia Flight 9268, was an Airbus 321, Russian state media report. The airline is commonly known as Metrojet.

We are aware of the media reports.Efforts are now going towards assessing the situation. We'll provide more information as soon as available

— Airbus (@Airbus) October 31, 2015

CNN's Sara Sirgany, Ian Lee and Nic Robertson contributed to this report.

Second version, from about 2pm central time:

Cairo (CNN) A Russian passenger plane crashed early Saturday in the Sinai Peninsula, killing all 224 people aboard, officials said.

Russian state media reported that many of the 217 passengers on Kogalymavia Flight 9268 were Russians returning from vacation. The passengers were reported to include 17 children. There were seven crew members.

The cause of the crash still is unknown, but it is most likely due to a technical failure, and there is no evidence of any terrorist action, Egyptian Airports Co. chief Adel Al-Mahjoob told CNN Arabic on Saturday.

The Airbus A321 had a routine check before flight, showing everything was OK to proceed, Mahjoob said.

The so-called black boxes -- the flight data recorder and voice data recorder -- have been recovered and transported to Cairo for analysis, Egyptian Civil Aviation Minister Hossam Kamel said at a news conference.

"There was nothing abnormal before the plane crash," he said. "It suddenly disappeared from the radar."

Air traffic control recordings did not show any distress calls from the pilot before the plane vanished from radar screens, Kamel said.

The tail of a Metrojet plane that crashed in Hassana, Egypt, killing 224 people, including 17 children. [ PIC OMITTED ]

The plane departed the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, near the southern tip of the Sinai, on a flight to St. Petersburg, Russia. It vanished from radar 23 minutes into the flight, at 6:20 a.m. local time.

Egypt has been battling insurgents in the Sinai aligned with the terrorist group ISIS.

Islamists militants in the Sinai linked to ISIS claimed responsibility for the crash, according to an online statement Saturday.

But Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov said the claim that terrorists brought down the plane by using an anti-aircraft missile "cannot be considered reliable," according to Russian state news agency RIA Novosti.

German air carrier Lufthansa and Air France have decided to reroute aircraft due to fly over the region.

"We will keep that measure in place as long as we are not sure of the circumstances and the reasons of the Metrojet crash," Lufthansa spokeswoman Bettina Rittberger said.

Egyptian Prime Minister Sherif Ismail (third right) tours the site in Sinai where a Metrojet plane crashed. [ PIC OMITTED ]

Weather apparently no factor
Among the significant, if preliminary, pieces of information to emerge Saturday were these:

• The plane was flying above 30,000 feet when it disappeared from radar screens, the Egyptian civil aviation ministry said.

• Russia 24, a state-owned news channel, and other Russian media outlets are saying the pilot reported technical problems and requested a landing at the nearest airport before the plane went missing. Officials have not corroborated those reports.

• Russia 24 also quotes the FlightRadar 24 website as saying the plane was descending at a rate of 1,800 meters per minute, or 67 mph, before radar contact was lost.

• Weather in the area was clear, CNN reported.

• The plane was Kogalymavia Flight 9268. The airline is commonly known as Metrojet.

• The crash site is in the northern part of Sinai, near a town called Housna -- 300 kilometers (185 miles) from Sharm el-Sheikh, the Egyptian Prime Minister's office said.

• The site is reported to be in a mountainous area. Still, Egyptian rescue crews made their way there, and officials said 129 bodies have been found and are being flown to Cairo. Ambulances have so far moved 34 bodies to the official Zeinhom morgue and other hospitals in the Egyptian capital.

Relatives react at the St. Petersburg, Russia, airport after news of the crash. [ PIC OMITTED ]

Analysis: Plane crashed at what should have been flight's safest point

Putin orders investigation
And Ismail, Egypt's prime minister, met with ministers and security officials as the cause of the crash remained a mystery. The most dangerous parts of any flight are the takeoff and landing; it is unusual for a plane to fall from the sky at cruising altitude.

Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev to open an investigation into the crash, the Kremlin said. And Putin declared an official day of mourning Sunday for the victims.

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi called Putin to express his condolences, according to the Kremlin.

Sisi "assured Mr. Putin that conditions will be created for the broadest possible participation of Russian experts in the investigation of the plane crash," the Kremlin statement said.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry spoke to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov to express his condolences and offer American assistance if needed, according to the State Department.


The Russian emergency ministry said it was sending five planes to the area to help with possible rescues and the investigation. And Russia opened a hotline for relatives, many of whom gathered at the airport in St. Petersburg, where they had expected their loved ones to arrive.

About 115 relatives have given DNA samples to help identify the victims.

At a St. Petersburg airport terminal, a makeshift shrine was set up for those who perished, with roses, candles and stuffed animals.

Airbus, the plane's maker, issued a statement on Twitter: "We are aware of the media reports," the tweet reads. "Efforts are now going towards assessing the situation. We'll provide more information as soon as available."

We are aware of the media reports.Efforts are now going towards assessing the situation. We'll provide more information as soon as available

— Airbus (@Airbus) October 31, 2015

CNN's Sara Sirgany, Ian Lee and Nic Robertson contributed to this report.

 

[Alana]

Video of the crash site

http://<iframe width="560" height="...JU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Having spend the day reading and watching reports, I created the impression that the crash site was a mountainous, hard to get to area...

Also, latest updates from RT:

19:17 GMT
Ireland offered “assistance in the investigation of the causes of the tragedy” with its aviation investigations authority sending a corresponding official proposal to Egypt, TASS reports. The crashed Airbus A321 was formally registered in Ireland.

18:27 GMT
Both flight data recorders from the crashed Russian plane have been found, Egypt’s civil aviation minister said.

 

[biala84]

Condolence :( :( :( :( :(

 

[Aeneas]

It is hard not to compare this event to the shooting down of MH17. The day after that crash all the Western papers blamed Putin without a thread of evidence. Headlines said "Putin killed my baby" etc. The idea was that Putin via his support to the people of Donbass was guilty of the shooting down, EVEN when there was no evidence that the 'rebels' had shot it down.

Now will all the Western media follow suit and tomorrow have headlines creaming 'Obama killed my baby'?. That ISIS claims to have done it is enough. Who needs evidence when you belong to the Western media and since Obama created ISIS, then Bingo, he is the new Hitler.

But no, the Western media is not going to blame Obama and neither is Russian media as they willl not stoop so low and utilise a tragedy to score political points, even if they would have just as much evidence 18 hours after as the Western media had after MH17.


Last but not least. My condolences to the friends and families of the victims of this tragedy.

 

[sToRmR1dR]

According to St Petersburg's official 27 children were aboard Russian crashed jet:

http://tass.ru/en/society/833203

My deep condolence.

 

[angelburst29]

Video of the crash site

http://<iframe width="560" height="...JU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Having spend the day reading and watching reports, I created the impression that the crash site was a mountainous, hard to get to area...

I was given the same impression, especially where it was reported - part of the plane "crashed into a rock?" If you watch the video carefully, it does give a 350* spin of the area and it looks like a flat "plateau" for miles around. The only reason I can think of, that they gave the impression of a mountainous terrain was for security reasons, so authorized personell could get to crash site before any ISIS or whatever to tamper with the crime scene? So, in a sense, mountainous terrain is a decoy? I would imagine, some of the conflicting reports might also serve as a decoy, until all the bodies are recovered and the area "secured" for further investigation.

"The plane split into two, a small part on the tail end that burned and a larger part that crashed into a rock. We have extracted at least 100 bodies and the rest are still inside."

 

[Ca.]

My condolences of this tragic loss of life's
I believe that most of these comments are from Professional's in the Aviation Industry and may provide some valuable clues not covered in main stream.

Looks like there may be some damage control within the comments-aka possible shills.

If one is interested go to the sight for the rest of the picks. Had trouble loading them.

Ok.......... sorry about that.

The Aviation Herald
_http://avherald.com/h?article=48e9abe4&opt=0
Crash: Metrojet A321 over Sinai on Oct 31st 2015, disappeared from radar in climb over Sinai
By Simon Hradecky, created Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 07:51Z, last updated Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 19:29Z

A Metrojet (former Kogalym Avia, Kolavia) Airbus A321-200, registration EI-ETJ performing flight 7K-9268 from Sharm el Sheikh (Egypt) to St. Petersburg (Russia) with 217 passengers and 7 crew, was climbing through FL307 out of Sharm el Sheikh over the Sinai Peninsula (Position N30.16 E34.17, 60nm south of Al-Arish) at 04:12Z when the aircraft disappeared from radar. Wreckage of the aircraft was later located in mountaineous terrain about 20nm south of Al-Arish (Sinai, Egypt). No survivors were found.

Egyptian sources were reporting the aircraft was believed crashed, a search for the aircraft in Sinai was ongoing.

Egypt's Prime Minister confirmed the aircraft has crashed. In the evening of Oct 31st 2015 the Prime Minister reported that 129 bodies have been recovered and taken to Cairo.

Egyptian Authorities reported first parts of the wreckage have been located. There is no evidence of hostile/missile activity around the flight path of the aircraft. 50 ambulances have been dispatched to the crash site, any injured would be flown to Cairo with helicopters. The flight data recorder has been recovered.

Reuters quotes an Egyptian Offical involved in the ongoing rescue operation, that the aircraft has broken up in two major parts, a small part being the tail plane caught fire, the other larger part impacted a rock. Bodies still belted to their seats are around the crash site, around 100 bodies have so far been recovered, the rest still inside the wreckage, however, there are also voices heard from inside a part of the wreckage. 50 ambulances have been dispatched to the crash site.

Russia's Rosaviatsia (Civil Aviation Authority) reported the A321 of Kogalym Avia carried 217 passengers and 7 crew.

Sources in Sharm el Sheik reported the captain of the flight reported technical problems and requested to return to Sharm el Sheikh.

A ground observer reported a large number of helicopters are departing their Cairo airbase in the direction of Sinai.

Egyptian media report with reference to an Egyptian government meeting that the crew reported engine (V2533) trouble, subsequently lost control of the aircraft and communication ceased.

Airbus confirmed the loss of EI-ETJ, that disappeared from radar while flying overhead Sinai, with 217 passengers and 7 crew. The aircraft, built in 1997 and powered by IAE V2533 engines, had accumulated approximately 55,772 flight hours in 21,175 flight cycles.

The airline reported the captain of the flight was experienced with more than 12,000 hours total and 3,800 hours on type.

Egypt's Accident Investigation Commission opened an investigation. The chairman stated, that preliminary facts point towards a technical failure.

Russia's Transport Ministry called a video surfacing in the Internet claiming to show the shoot down of 7K-9263 by Islamic State as not credible and fabricated.

The Russian Embassy to Egypt reported, that no survivors have been found at the crash site, all occupants of the aircraft perished.

Egypt's Civil Aviation Authority reported that there was no Mayday Call from the crew, communication with the aircraft was normal until the aircraft disappeared from radar.

Lufthansa and Air France announced they are going to avoid overflying the Sinai until the cause of the crash has been determined. There have been warnings issued by the FAA to American Operators as well as by Germany to German airlines to operate above FL260 while flying over the Sinai.

On Oct 31st 2015 around 19:00Z Eurocontrol's Air Flow Traffic Management (CFMU) issued following statement by NMOC Brussels: "Attention to Aircraft Operators: The point PASOS in LCCC (Cyprus) FIR is not available for flight planning. FPLs filed via this point will be rejected by IFPS. Please re-file via points: LAKTO or RASDA." LAKTO's position is N32.633333 E32.083333 on airway J863 to Port Said, RASDA's position is N33.100000 E30.950000 on airway A16 to BALTIM, both routes west of Sinai avoiding the Sinai.

According to flightplan the aircraft was tracking between waypoints TBA (Egypt: N29.362420 E34.475080) and PASOS (Cyprus FIR, N32.216667 E33.100000) when it disappeared. Eurocontrol's Air Flow Traffic Management (CFMU) issued a note to all operators along the route TBA-PASOS and vice versa shortly after the aircraft disappeared, that due to technical problems all flights will be tactically rerouted via MELDO (N32.033611 E31.077778) until further notice. The notice was removed a couple of minutes later. Airway UL550, connecting PASOS and TBA, remained in use throughout the day.

More impressions from the crash site (Photos: STR/EPA/Picturedesk):

Egypt's Prime Minister at the crash site (Photos: Reuters/Stringer):

Aerial overview of the area at the time of crash, aircraft position over Gulf of Suez viewing north from southern entry into Suez Canal towards Al-Arish and Mediterranean Sea at the top:

Infrared Satellite Image VISSR at 03:00Z (Graphics: AVH/Meteosat):

Map (Graphics: AVH/Google Earth):

comments:
The data transmission ended in high altitude
By JoergAtAvHerald on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 20:47Z
Barry Sheridan wrote:
> AF447 (I think) was found to have come down like this, could there be some sort of similarity here?
AF447 was in a stall for minutes and all aircraft systems (except the pitot tubes and depending systems like the autopilot) worked until it crashed into the sea.
In this case the data transmission ended much earlier in high altitude. There must be happend something much more severe, before this airplane came down.

inconsistent photos
By elemes on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 20:40Z
The photo under the title "First impression" shows a site very much different from the newer photos shown above.
@Henry
By 727driver on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 20:37Z
A plane doesn't lose all 3 hyd sys all of a sudden, does it?


Damage pattern
By AKar on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 20:33Z
Note the curiously undamaged bulkhead at the nose, the way the vertical stabilizer is cracked with bend and compression but still at its original position, and the rear door forced up from its frame but otherwise at its original position.
All this seem to suggest yet another relatively flat-down Airbus.

Metrojet A321
By Henry on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 20:33Z
In case of failure of all 3 hydraulic sistem the aircraft is out of control.

Crashed upside down ?
By Fanfwe on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 20:33Z
Hi,
I'm not an expert, but the first picture looks like the nose of the aircraft.
Based on the location of the static ports, it looks like the part of the nose which is "intact" is the bottom part of it (avionics bay). The top part (cockpit) is completely crushed.
Could the aircraft have crashed upside down ? Or am I interpreting that picture wrong ?

A321 crash in Egypt
By Dan Ethan on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 20:21Z
Apperantly a low speed crash down from FL307 in climb. Spectrum is broad from pilot error to recover from a malfunction pitfall to pilot suicide /mass murder. Previous examples are; AF-447 A330 Crash (JUN/01/2009), AEROFLOT-593 A310 Crash (MAR/23/1994),recent GERMANWINGS A320 suicide pilot's mass murder,Egyptair 990 (OCT/31/1999),LAM Flight 470 (NOV/29/2013)...
ISIS video
By opa-opa on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 20:16Z
ISIS has posted videos of a plane blowing up and dropping out of the sky.
Also Egyptian authorities have confirmed there was NO contact between the pilot and ATC about technical difficulties about the crash. Not sure who or why the misinformation was spread earlier.
Evidence of coming down flat
By Barry Sheridan on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 20:12Z
Judging by the photographs the crush damage suggests thte aircraft came down in a level attitude with little obvious forward velocity. The fire damage also appears to confirm this, the aircraft being largely intact on impact. AF447 (I think) was found to have come down like this, could there be some sort of similarity here?

@EASA SIB
By 727driver on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 19:55Z
Thx Olle, there is a similar NOTAM out there.
In the weanwhile AF and LH stopped flying over SINAI at all........

EASA SIB
By Olle on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 19:52Z
There is a SIB( saftey bulletin message ) issued by EASA 2014-11-13
Subject: Egypt Sinai Peninsula Airspace
Applicability: National Aviation Authorities and aircraft operators.
Description: Due to ongoing insurgent activity, operators of civil aircraft should be aware of the risk to flight operations safety in the Northern Sinai Governorate of Egypt deriving from possible use of small arms fire, rocket-propelled grenades, mortars and anti-aircraft fire, including shoulder-fired man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS). The threat is considered to represent a significant risk to aviation overflying this area at or below FL260. The Agency draws the aviation community’s attention to any further information that may indicate the existence of serious risks to the safety of international civil flights. Flight Traffic Data: average daily traffic from the European region: 340 overflights on Sinai peninsula.
My copmany has a no go for FPL over northen Sinai.


By Pitting on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 19:47Z
Look in the third picture of the blue tailfin, it appears to be full of pitting and there is even a bullet-like hole blasted at the lower section. Not an expert but it reminds me of mh17.

photo a/c tail
By MD-11 on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 19:07Z
at the crashsite photo showing the tail, you can see that the damage is from vertical input force. It seems that the speed of the airplane must be nearly by zero. A stall in the air seems to be one aspect of the crash. But what technical problem could cause such a lost of control?

a/c involved in tailstrike
By MD-11 on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 19:01Z
on 16.11.2001 this a/c was involved in accident in Cairo. Tailstrike. The a/c was been operated by MEA, when it suffered a tailstrike while landing a Cairo airport

By Pierre on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 18:55Z
Age of the aircraft have nothing to do with that
I flew well maintained aircraft who where 40 years old (CV 580) and 30 years old DC8. By the way the American military are probably still flying the B707 which were design in the 50 s
Isis is a probability since they got a lot of equipment from the so moderate rebel that the USA support. By the way if you d ont listen only to. and FOXnews you would know that the American lost 50 TONNES of equipment lately and they d ont know where it is. This equipment is certainly not only hand guns and hand grenade
I see why
By Rosta on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 17:58Z
Apparently the airport in Al-Ismaliah is used by the Egyptian army only...

Why request Cairo and not Al-ismaliah
By Rosta on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 17:53Z
First of all my sincere condolences to all affected by this tragedy.
I have a possibility naive question but the closest airport would have been Al-Ismaliah not Cairo - can anyone think of a reason why the pilot would request Cairo airport landing? Maintenance accessibility, size...?

r3m
By Gabriel on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 17:47Z
Not always. When an airplane is shot down sometimes it disintegrates mid-air. Sometimes the damage caused (control lines severed, pilots incapacitated, damaged wing or control surface, etc...) renders the plane uncontrollable and the plane crashes practically in one piece or almost in one piece.
Examples are Korean Air shot down by the Russians, or the DHL (was it DHL?) A-300 in Iraq that managed to land with severe damage in one wing and almost no control (had it crashed it would have done so in one piece).


#old style
By OKANE on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 17:41Z
If 15 years was max for all aircraft, you would probably have half the airlines go out of business. Those not shutting down, would have to curtail service, including most majors.
The science is established that age has nothing to do with airworthiness. (DC3s are still flying). Its the number of cycles, the pressurization and depressurization. In addition, the climate, especially tropical, oceanic conditions. And of course, excellent maintenance. The Aloha Airlines tragedy is one of the best cases to illustrate this.

references
By Jetman on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 17:40Z
We do not use wiki to fly, maintain, train and investigate in this business....we use only certify data and wiki is not one of them at all.
Of course we do not know the A/C conf, alt to star APU and problemS but discussion can be opened ie for easy driver....alpha prot is activated under certain speed to keep AOA condition, and this is not in wiki.
Shoot down sounds unlikely based on information available so far
By r3m on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 16:49Z
I am sure I have not read all the information available on this. However the reports make it sound like the aircraft came down in one area. If you look at aircraft that were shot down or blown up in the past, most of them come down over a very large area.


@ easyFlyer
By Tobias on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 16:38Z
"Wikipedia says that 1549 had a ram-air turbine which deployed (Like the Gimli Glider incident), not the APU being used (Southern Airways DC-9 crash used the APU)"
Well, the official NTSB report does say the APU was turned on by Cpt. Sullenberger.
I love Wik as welli, but it is rarely 100% accurate.
Go to and search for us airways 1549, and get the report. Quite good reading as a matter of fact

We can't trust Daesh
By Nicolas on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 16:37Z
That's very sad, I hope the families will get answers.

Thanks Simon for the
Daesh is good at communication. Its claim is to be treated cautiously. According to official reports it seems they aren't able to reach an airliner at FL300. It's very plausible they just try to take credit for this to make an impression after the confused initial reports.

@old style
By (anonymous) on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 16:32Z
I'm not sure what caused this crash but I'm almost positive it wasn't the age of the airframe. Look at all the accident statistics you want, there is no correlation between aircraft age and decreased safety. The aircraft is less than 20 years old, it could have been easily operated for 20 more.

Stall Protection
By easyFlyer on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 16:19Z
"I believe US Airways flight 5149 that ditched in Hudson river were stall protected because Cpt. Sullenberger turned on the APU thereby keeping the flight envelope protection system in normal law though without engine power.
From the NTSB report, page 98: "The flight envelope protections allowed the captain to pull full aft on the sidestick without the risk of stalling the airplane""
Wikipedia says that 1549 had a ram-air turbine which deployed (Like the Gimli Glider incident), not the APU being used (Southern Airways DC-9 crash used the APU)

IS claim
By Graeme on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 16:05Z
Not only have IS claimed to have shot the aircraft down, but they have published blurred footage of what looks like a swept wing twin engined airliner photographed from the rear and below. An explosion is seen on the left wing after which heavy fire and smoke is seen trailing from the aircraft which appears to fly on for some minutes trailing the heavy smoke. It may have been in a descent. The moment of impact was not shown.


By wolfgang lammer on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 15:57Z
@Piotr747:
"Just small info for all "experts" on this forum. After dual engine failure and with many other failures Airbus is not protected any more from stall... and other exceedances."
A airbus can really drop down from FL > 300, instantly, even all engines down, avionics down, power lost etc.. without trial to restore? Without emergency call..


checking aircraft age...
By Old style on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 15:51Z
15 years should be age max for airplanes. Safety first, not profit.