Session 10 October 2015

[cubbex]

So, the first question should be what Lizzies, then if they understand it.

The original statement was that you cannot understand the ray of creation through the STS lens, and from there the stuff began.

Do not be angry, but something is obviously going on with you, this is like as if not written by the same person

Casper, why would I be angry? probably my lack of external considering makes me sound angry.

 

[Mememe45]

The original statement was that you cannot understand the ray of creation through the STS lens, and from there the stuff began.


There may be a lot of truth in that statement.
We must remember RA words that stated that 3D STS is not a density of truth or understanding. Therefore one can only catch glimmers of truth.
We very warey of "teachers" who want to Show you the door. They have no real understanding other than their own self exultation.
A student will always seek answers and they will always seem "silly" to some.
My advice is to seek a teacher one on one, rather than this self exalting forum/discussion.

It is very clear to me that if the "student" (you feels put down, frustrated, or unlistened too, then it is the teacher who is responsible for this and not the student.
Seek a one on oe discussion with a "techer" who knows that he is a student as well. There is already too much sts here.

 

[wr4]

I mean Prometeo pick this line "lizzies don't understand the ray of creation", and need proof of it, but did not ask proof of Lizzies. Now if the Ray of Creation is easy consept for Prometeo and we are STS, why he ask and proof if STS understand it.

 

[Mememe45]

When one presents themselves as a teacher , one carries the greater responsibility to be patient, courtliest and kind.
Especially if one considers oneself aware of "all is one" and "what I do to others I do to myself"
Phrases such as ,"get over yourself" "stop being narcissistic", Stop demanding" are more the comments of a simple and unlearned student than an Elder or teacher.
In this case it is quite reasonable that a person may think that the "teacher is attempting to come across as a "superior being.
A true teacher always uplifts the student and never "puts Down"

Self important nonsense.

Here's an uplifting thought for ya: If that's the way you've been taught, and what you believe, then one is probably in the wrong bar here. All is one. ;)

Did not the Cassio's say that one should seek as many sources of knowledge as one can and that, no one source has all knowledge. Maybe a student should be visiting "several Bars" instead of just one!
Yet, one can know one sure thing, that when the bar attendant throws out the patron, he is doing only for STS reasons.

 

[luke wilson]

Prometeo, there is anger, defiance, arrogance and even hostility in your recent posts. From your point of view, you may perceive yourself as calm but from where I am sitting, this is what I perceive. I'm not saying your point of view is wrong or mine is right or vice versa... We can honestly exchange points of views for each others consideration in good spirit. I'm thinking how you are calm and yet appearing to be on a war path for example from what you said about your state.

You can ask questions but you should also be prepared to receive answers and in that preparedness, you should be capable of receiving answers that you were not expecting. You shouldn't huff and puff because you are not getting the answers you expect, you should give people freedom to respond in how they choose. You don't have to go to battle with them over such things.

Plus, all these over the 'ray of creation' surely falls into the category of a storm in a tea cup. If people want to speculate about it, give them the freedom to do it... Your whole thing about precise explanations I'm just seeing as restricting the bounds in which people can respond to you i.e. Not giving them the freedom to explore the ideas i.e. acting a bit tyrannical really... I'm sure you don't want to be a tyrant Prometeo so please don't.

 

[Chu]

Prometeo, earlier on, you wrote:

Contrary to what I thought, the more I learn the more I disagree with some of the things in the forum and some of its members. Yeah, my social style needs working, especially when I'm angry, but one thing I can trust in is in what Caesar told the forum one day "Follow your heart, fear nothing"; which I don't know why it had to be changed to "follow your nature" lol. And well, I didn't have an aim, when I got one was when things sped up beyond belief, my learning improved, also my understanding because I had a project in mind.

So, one day an administrator in the forum says "tell us what you need, your problems, we are for you", then a newbie says their problem and they totally contradict themselves with "we cannot help you, go to a professional" and things like that, and citing all of the time that has happened I thing it will be a waste. At least I can be thankful for the knowledge references shared in the forum, but I think I'm becoming less and less collinear here. Isn't that ironic? I agree on many things they say, I just don't agree with the ways here. It is of my belief this forum is not really there to help everyone, at least not everyone in general (and yes you can read this from many threads in many ocassions) but a particular set of individuals with a particular set of mind.

That sounds like a pretty clear decision to leave, if you ask me, and a huge lack of real understanding of what is done here. Not just that, but a distortion, in fact. Then you stayed around, and said:

In fear of receiving the or some banhammer, I want to make some last questionings and some statements. Better take the chance.

What you did instead was ask disingenuous questions, insult others and be rude. So, if that's all that you've got left to say, I think you will be much happier elsewhere. We got the message. No need to come up with childish "last words", "let me all show you" sneaky and indirect goodbye words. No need for someone to ban you so that you have someone to blame. Just leave if you feel that's the right path for you, and all the best to you. Staying and presenting this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

 

[Alada]

What you did instead was ask disingenuous questions, insult others and be rude. So, if that's all that you've got left to say, I think you will be much happier elsewhere. We got the message. No need to come up with childish "last words", "let me all show you" sneaky and indirect goodbye words. No need for someone to ban you so that you have someone to blame. Just leave if you feel that's the right path for you, and all the best to you. Staying and presenting this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

I agree with Chu, and after the time you have spent with the forum you know full well that that kind of behavior is not going to be received well here, it adds nothing but noise. But, some folk have a need perhaps to prove themselves right, in their own minds at least.

Amazing isn't it, how many people get stuck in black and white thinking and then come 'unstuck' when things don't fit easily into either category. How easily people forget about context.

 

[Alada]

Did not the Cassio's say that one should seek as many sources of knowledge as one can and that, no one source has all knowledge. Maybe a student should be visiting "several Bars" instead of just one!
Yet, one can know one sure thing, that when the bar attendant throws out the patron, he is doing only for STS reasons.

Yet you didn't get thrown out, you're still able able to post so no points to be scored there.

It is STS however to try and dictate the house rules in someone else's house. Whether folks choose to stay in the bar and how they choose to act then, depends on whether they are thirsty or not, and on how full their cup is already.

 

[cubbex]

I mean Prometeo pick this line "lizzies don't understand the ray of creation", and need proof of it, but did not ask proof of Lizzies. Now if the Ray of Creation is easy consept for Prometeo and we are STS, why he ask and proof if STS understand it.

Man, put attention to what Alada said. That was exactly what I was asking for. Proof for such statements.

Thing is I lacked enough intelligence to frame my questions.

What you did instead was ask disingenuous questions, insult others and be rude. So, if that's all that you've got left to say, I think you will be much happier elsewhere. We got the message. No need to come up with childish "last words", "let me all show you" sneaky and indirect goodbye words. No need for someone to ban you so that you have someone to blame. Just leave if you feel that's the right path for you, and all the best to you. Staying and presenting this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

Oh god, this is impossible. Well, I'll show you! hehe. I still don't get it, one person tells me you need to explain things simple, another that you cannot ask for simple explanations.

All right then. Side stepping is the norm here. Don't get angry when the PTB do the same to you.

 

[Nienna]

Prometeo, you said that one of the things you are not happy with is that we told a member to tell us what was wrong and we would help them, Then, after being told what was wrong, we told them that we can't help them and to seek professional help.

I'm a bit confused why this would upset you. Do you really think that it would be right for us to keep telling someone things to do after we realize that we can't really help them? Or is it better if we admit that we can't help them because we are not equipped for the extent of the problem and it's better for them to seek someone (a professional) that can help them?

In fear of receiving the or some banhammer, I want to make some last questionings and some statements. Better take the chance.

What you did instead was ask disingenuous questions, insult others and be rude. So, if that's all that you've got left to say, I think you will be much happier elsewhere. We got the message. No need to come up with childish "last words", "let me all show you" sneaky and indirect goodbye words. No need for someone to ban you so that you have someone to blame. Just leave if you feel that's the right path for you, and all the best to you. Staying and presenting this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

Yep, I have to agree.

 

[cubbex]

It is STS however to try and dictate the house rules in someone else's house.

Really, well you understand the STS nature of things. Could you then explain me how STS and STO concepts are not black & white conceptualizations?

In detail please. And like wr4 says, with proof.

Prometeo, you said that one of the things you are not happy with is that we told a member to tell us what was wrong and we would help them, Then, after being told what was wrong, we told them that we can't help them and to seek professional help.

I'm a bit confused why this would upset you. Do you really think that it would be right for us to keep telling someone things to do after we realize that we can't really help them? Or is it better if we admit that we can't help them because we are not equipped for the extent of the problem and it's better for them to seek someone (a professional) that can help them?

This is one ocassion of many I've seen all through my stay here. The forum has claimed to be a place to support sort some of ideal of freedom and helpful, and that is not the case as long as some members do not agree with the forum's standards. You also recommend going with a professional, but when you don't like something you come to claim enough profesion to diagnose people with narcissism. If you will promote the forum, you can promote the guidelines along the links so that some folks don't get dissapointed when they come here. Also promote that either if you are or not part of FOTCM, you will still be treated as if part of.

Again, what did you all understood when the elders told you about being too "structured"?

 

[Buddy]

What you did instead was ask disingenuous questions, insult others and be rude. So, if that's all that you've got left to say, I think you will be much happier elsewhere. We got the message. No need to come up with childish "last words", "let me all show you" sneaky and indirect goodbye words. No need for someone to ban you so that you have someone to blame. Just leave if you feel that's the right path for you, and all the best to you. Staying and presenting this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

That's pretty much exactly what I'd expect someone to say to me if I were behaving like that in their house and the owners previously expressed their standards.

Prometeo, to say or imply that 'it all began with...' that ray of creation/Lizzie question, is to admit that you lack some self-control that maybe you would have been expected to have achieved by now, considering how long you've been active here. Even that claim is suspect though, because the positive feedback loop, or what amplified the "transgression against your preferences" began it's feed by your interpretation of bjorn's response.

Your English is good enough now that you can be accountable for your word choices. If you will compare the words you used recently to condescend to members with bjorn's reference to "child" and "dummies", then you might, just for a moment, consider the possibility that you project passive-aggression onto others before asking them anything about how they mean what they are saying. You just assume, and that assumption is most likely based on how you would be feeling if YOU had used those words. One reason I didn't read any such thing into bjorn's reply is because, to me, he has always been direct and unsentimental and his point was suggesting a possible future solution to solve the difficulties with these high-level types of questions.

You can imply that "it all began with..." an innocent question if you wish, but it seems to me there has to be at least "two things" for a dynamic of process to begin.

The points about External Consideration are spot on, IMO, and when people see that today you show the same intolerance for certain responses as you showed back in 2009 when you practically ridiculed a member for trying to express mixed emotions on that "church" thread, it begins to make people wonder about your purpose.

You are evidently capable of self-development work, according to how you describe your exponential English education when you got an aim and had a project in mind, so why not a similar dedication to a simple basic "aim" of this work?

It is STS however to try and dictate the house rules in someone else's house.

Really, well you understand the STS nature of things. Could you then explain me how STS and STO concepts are not black & white conceptualizations?

In detail please. And like wr4 says, with proof.

So, is it time, then, for an Aristotelian-based discussion of metaphysics in an epistomological framework? Really? I think there are other threads for that.

 

[cubbex]

So much for the STO candidates right, giving what is asked. Yep, you can call me childhish, criticize me and judge, I'm not perfect. You can also ask the elders why and from who did they came up with the ideas of magnetizing, the chaos for creation, awareness as part of the work, and that you were a bit structured.

So that you know, you invite people openly so then express things things like "this is your fault for not reading the guidelines". An open forum you are not.

 

[luke wilson]

God! Prometeo, this is a car crash in progress... Ask for permission to get it all out of your system at least...

 

[JEEP]

[Composed this response in Yahoo mail so as to avoid losing what I've written again.]

After my failure to post a response to Hemdallr, I opened Sott to check what was new and there was the Tattoos = Angry People article - talk about synchonicity!

My original thoughts in response to Hemdallr's comment:

I agreed that it was not a simple question & that tattoos probably represent different things to different people. I made a comparison to wearing jewelry as a form of self-expression, but that w/ jewelry, one can put it on-change it-or choose to not wear any at all as one desires > this is not possible w/ tattoos. Females generally seem to go for the more benignly beautiful selections such as roses/butterflies/etc. Both genders have embraced the whole spectrum of Satanic/death-symbol tattoos which would certainly seem to reflect either a genuine affinity w/ that dark culture or a false projection of 'I'm a dangerous person/don't mess w/ me' in order to intimidate others while also covering for one's own insecurities.

Then there are those who've gone whole hog w/ religious tattoos. Having worked at a college, I often saw students w/ religious related tattoos > JESUS spelled out from shoulder blade to shoulder blade along w/ crosses, etc. Interestingly enough, family members on my husband's side are enamored w/ tattoos in that 2 nephews have pursued being tattoo artists and the mother of one has multiple tats herself. The vocation apparently didn't work out for one & he went on to a very nice job in IT for a school district (he also lost a ton of weight via intermittent fasting to the point he was unrecognizable to us from his former self). The other nephew just moved back from Alaska & only recently began training. He also is much thinner than he was and looks remarkably different. He has very prominent tattoos of a religious nature.

I've heard that acquiring a tattoo has an addictive element - once you get one you soon want more. This may relate to what Laura posted:

Laura:
Another thing that occurs to me is that it might be that a person gets tattoos under the influence of spirit attachments and the tattoos might then act as "connections" with that attachment and getting rid of one might also get rid of the other.

Spirit attachment might be one possibility but maybe parasites as well? And as to the safety of the inks, I heard years ago that some people w/ tats were experiencing extreme pain when attempting to have an MRI - apparently components in the ink were reacting and making it impossible to have the procedure performed. I've heard red ink in particular has been problematic.

Laura:
One thing that occurs to me about tattoos is this: if the act is reflective of anger, frustration, hurt, or even just wanting to be part of a "tattooing crowd", the tattoo sort of anchors that energy to the body in a permanent way. You can't fully release the anger, frustration, or hurt without making the tattoo go away also. And you can't move from the "tattooing crowd" to a different social group so easily without also removing the tattoos.

For sure, shaving your head into a mohawk & dyeing it bright fuschia is one way to express anger, frustration, hurt or whatever, but once you get over it or otherwise have a change of perspective, you can let the hair grow out or don a wig. Tattoos ... not so easily changed. And if some other element is actually behind the acquisition, that's an even more troubling reality.

Just want to express my genuine awe at the amazing level of insight & wisdom that forum members continue to disseminate - I'm blown away & feel so fortunate to be even a small part of it all.

p.s. I wrote the last part BEFORE I caught up w/ recent postings - Hoo boy!!!
Is it possible that we're witnessing an actual 'disintegration'?!! Or has a spiritual attachment/parasites taken control?