Session 14 October 2017

[Phill4]

Do you really think that the SAO guidance Cs applauded you standing, after how you "outraged" my being? still think the Cs are still with you?

This one is like, really?
He is telling Laura how to channel? lol the wishful thinking is astronomical!

There is a reason Laura opened those threads on Collingwood, don't you think?, so we can discuss this following the teaching of the C's, we learn by doing instead of them lead us by the hand, to test what the C's say and what G. said, and this session was particularly important for the work, he missed it completely, none of this ever crossed his mind, nope. He literally came here to take a shot at Laura. The point is revenge, Laura asked him for his evidence and answered with nonsense and unrelated stuff, nick-picking words here and there to support an already dead argument.

What is funny is that he plays the victim and is not talking about his own behavior which led him to be removed, he is silent about that, funny ain't it. your lack of consideration and insight says enough already.
He has never said, Oh I was inconsiderate! Oh, I was intransigent, Oh, I was rude and overreacted! etc etc

I mean, I would at least consider what people are saying to me if they say, "yo, you are messing up" I would be like well it is not impossible, at least, but he doesn't show any intention at all to reevaluate his behavior. At this moment in his mind, he is still right.
It's almost as if he gets a kick out of overreacting about everything.


If they need to preserve a secure network so that THOSE WHO ACTUALLY ARE INTERESTED, can have an equal opportunity to learn, I applaud them for their efforts at keeping this place secure, this forum is not your personal playground to trash people around because you DECIDED to take something the wrong way, you are misusing the purpose and resources of the network to entertain a bunch of personal fantasies.

I can totally understand what happened, so your attempt at twisting facts is disingenuous.

Do you really think that the SAO guidance Cs applauded you standing, after how you "outraged" my being? still think the Cs are still with you?

I wonder about the choice of expression, this is starting to sound as if he sees the C's as a ruling parent that won't be happy with you if you don't behave a certain way.. I wonder.

 

[flashgordonv]

Many thanks for the session and the update on G and LV. The insanity keeps swirling, it's comforting to know what the reason for it is.

 

[Hesper]

I do not know the intrinsic story with riclapaz, but I find the answers of Laura and Joe disturbing, and from an outside look, there is an impression of harm.
As if their beliefs were in conflict. They are natural intellectual leaders and it is not necessary to respond to every mosquito bite. Sometimes the recall of a sting is not harmful.

Since this is an esoteric school, it is incumbent on those who take a leadership role to give what is asked for. Riclaplaz was given opportunity after opportunity yet it was clear that he was on his way out and, having renounced his position in the private forum, made a final attempt to 'get back' at people who didn't treat his words as gospel. What you see is him saying goodbye rudely, and everyone else helping him on his way out the door.

Apart from the members of the castle, which is their duty to defend the house, I remain cautious to see others continue to "throw the stone". When a man is "KO", he understands that the one who struck him is superior to him, so why throw another stone, and what purpose? Either they think that Laura has misunderstood, and that they have a better explanation, either it is the syndrome of belonging / recognition, or perhaps "something I do not know what" family souls?

No one is 'throwing stones'. Rather, someone threw a tantrum and a handful of people shared their opinions in attempting to process the situation.

On Gurdjieff, if nobody contradicted him in 1930, do you think that if he would have been our guide instead of Laura (in 2017), there would have been someone to contradict him? Probably not. Or maybe Laura, but would we have defended Laura or Gurdjieff? We are in intellectual comfort. "Life is real only when" I am "". So who are we?

Surely plenty of people contradicted Gurdjieff. The determining factor is not in the contradiction, it is in the validity of the criticism. In this case (as in most cases) the criticism is clearly a thinly veiled personal attack on Laura and her work. Thus, it carries no instructional weight but is simply bothersome and rude.

 

[Hindsight Man]

This is especially important for me: "A: Planetary movement through space-time area of realm border." Because I was wondering what kind of energy affects more and more people to losing their minds, becoming Nazis, extremists, racists, homosexuals, bisexuals, flat-earthers ...

Homosexuality and bisexuality is not the result of "people losing their minds"! All sexual orientations are determined by genetic and childhood environmental factors, not twisted beliefs acquired later in life, as is the case with Nazis, extremists, racists and flat-earthers.

I think that (at least from my perspective) they weren't saying that gays are unnatural,rather that it's become trendy to be gay or trans or bi.In fact,the push for society wide acceptance has never been higher despite the fact that gays make up like 5% of a society.So as a result a lot of confused young people ''become'' gay through peer pressure.

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

No one is 'throwing stones'. Rather, someone threw a tantrum and a handful of people shared their opinions in attempting to process the situation.

Yeah. And it's also about taking a stand when someone is acting inappropriately. When many people point out that they're all seeing the same thing, it's more likely that the misbehaving person will correct his/hers behavior (and probably ending up being either grateful or resentful, depending if able to learn from the situation). For example bullying in school would be much harder, if other students/teachers would collectively intervene when seeing it happening. But this is what usually does NOT happen, since people have all kind of "make nice" programs and they end up being silent. So it has nothing to do with "throwing stones", quite the opposite.

 

[goyacobol]

I noticed that exist a healthy way of using the forum: Come here, read or look through. Get some new info, link, get some conclusions from discussions. Thanks to usual using one can learn something new almost every day while being here on the forum. It doesn't require any ego rush what only disrupts learning channel. When you keep your ego under control it opens your eyes that many things are driven just by the ego and it is wasting time and energy. It is brilliant in its simplicity. It's possible to be helpful for others, but this means development in the opposite direction, opposite to ego which should be reduced to tiny size and reduction of the importance of one's existence. Remit one's thoughts, states, subjectiveness, good name and redirect attention and energy to help others rise a bit higher then they are now.

Hello, thank you for this very interesting session. Thank you for the work of Laura and the team. I wanted to thank Ark for these pertinent questions, I wanted to know more about the realities and the chaos that is coming. I made one or two little posts on this subject, making the analogy of memories (quantum and karmic memories) and temporal dimensions.https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8915;area=showposts;start=0

The dissemination of the cat would ultimately be only a hormonal conjuncture, and not of a "Déjà vu".

I do not know the intrinsic story with riclapaz, but I find the answers of Laura and Joe disturbing, and from an outside look, there is an impression of harm.
As if their beliefs were in conflict. They are natural intellectual leaders and it is not necessary to respond to every mosquito bite. Sometimes the recall of a sting is not harmful.

Apart from the members of the castle, which is their duty to defend the house, I remain cautious to see others continue to "throw the stone". When a man is "KO", he understands that the one who struck him is superior to him, so why throw another stone, and what purpose? Either they think that Laura has misunderstood, and that they have a better explanation, either it is the syndrome of belonging / recognition, or perhaps "something I do not know what" family souls?

On Gurdjieff, if nobody contradicted him in 1930, do you think that if he would have been our guide instead of Laura (in 2017), there would have been someone to contradict him? Probably not. Or maybe Laura, but would we have defended Laura or Gurdjieff? We are in intellectual comfort. "Life is real only when" I am "". So who are we?

Sorry Lux to associate you with my thought ... but I had in filigree all along my post.

Kisito,

As you said "I do not know the intrinsic story with riclapaz but I find the answers of Laura and Joe disturbing, and from an outside look, there is an impression of harm."

If you find Laura and Joe's answers disturbing then I guess that is why others' comments seem like "throwing stones".

You also say:

either it is the syndrome of belonging / recognition, or perhaps "something I do not know what" family souls?

riclapaz was a member of FOTCM which is open to any forum member to apply for membership if they agree to the rules and goals of the fellowship.

That is why it could seem like a "syndrome" of "family souls" from your point of view in the unity of opinions about riclapaz's response to Laura I suppose.

Laura did mention in her response that riclapaz had been removed from the private forum. As fabric mentioned riclapaz was removed from the private forum at his own request.

If you think this was done lightly or without due cause then maybe you should reconsider. All riclapaz's posts are still here intact and you can read all his posts if you really want a more complete picture. People are just posting their opinions and observations to further define why they feel he has missed some important lessons.

Are we perfect, no but we have to be willing to admit it when we miss the mark and hopefully prevent others from making the same errors.

 

[Laura]

I do not know the intrinsic story with riclapaz, but I find the answers of Laura and Joe disturbing, and from an outside look, there is an impression of harm.
As if their beliefs were in conflict. They are natural intellectual leaders and it is not necessary to respond to every mosquito bite. Sometimes the recall of a sting is not harmful.

It's pretty clear that you, Kisito, "resonate" with riclapaz; neither of you, apparently, has the least clue why this forum exists or what its operational parameters are; or, if you do, you think that the rules don't apply to you. Perhaps at this point you can save yourself - and the rest of us - time and energy and simply find another forum that does suit you? As the Cs would say:

If you cannot stand the heat, get out of the kitchen... But if you leave the kitchen, you will miss the aroma.

and

Q: Well, I just want to sit at home and channel the
information, publish it, and not have to deal with the
unpleasant parts! {Being attacked by clueless people.}

A: Lots o'luck!!!

Q: What is that supposed to mean?

A: If you live by the sword, do not expect to sleep on the
couch!

Q: Talk about your mixed metaphors!!! What the heck is THAT
supposed to mean? Now listen, you guys are the ones who
got me into all this!

A: Negative!

Q: I asked before... can't we just quit now, and you said it
was too late...

A: Correct.

Q: You mean if I did absolutely NOTHING further, stuff would
still happen to me?

A: Yes.

Apart from the members of the castle, which is their duty to defend the house, I remain cautious to see others continue to "throw the stone". When a man is "KO", he understands that the one who struck him is superior to him, so why throw another stone, and what purpose? Either they think that Laura has misunderstood, and that they have a better explanation, either it is the syndrome of belonging / recognition, or perhaps "something I do not know what" family souls?

See previous answer.

 

[Mandrak]

Homosexuality and bisexuality is not the result of "people losing their minds"! All sexual orientations are determined by genetic and childhood environmental factors, not twisted beliefs acquired later in life, as is the case with Nazis, extremists, racists and flat-earthers.

This is a sensitive subject, and I was not precise enough. In chaotic conditions, a person can be pushed out of balance in all directions. Genetics plays a role (and probably food and hormones and pollution from the environment), and the soul affects genetics (and not just soul, but viruses, frequencies, nutrition, radiation), and the soul can be under greater or lower environmental pressure. I did not mention homosexuality as losing of reason, but I have listed increased frequency of it as one of the consequences of a influence of the chaotic energy along with the loss of reason etc. So if human chaos increases, will the frequency of not only terrorism, but also homosexuality, bisexuality, sodomy increase? I think so. I think it's pretty logical.
And if we are now exposed to chaotic energy, we all fight and lose it in our own way.
"Q: (L) So, we are in a period where the energies around us are basically dissolving things. Is that it?
A: Close. If subject to that. Other things are solid and merely experience the surrounding chaos externally."
I think that means some people are more resistant, but still, they are all exposed to it. Someone will react like this, some like that.

 

[Mikey]

Apart from the members of the castle, which is their duty to defend the house, I remain cautious to see others continue to "throw the stone".

While there is a duty to defend the house, this is mainly a public discussion forum; which means that everyone can freely discuss the thoughts of everyone else. If you see this as "throwing stones", implying that you wish to place restrictions on these naturally flowing conversations, then this forum is certainly not for you.

 

[SocietyoftheSpectacle]

[quote author= luc][quote author= SocietyoftheSpectacle] And of Course he Hypnotises people.

(L) He made it clear that he was experimenting, but that the people he was experimenting on would benefit as a side effect of his objectives. And he said that clearly in his book Herald of the Coming Good.

What else can you do with people who are Hypnotised by nature and the world around them ?
But put them under a lesser form of Hypnosis ,
one that they can perceive and fight their way out of.

I find this line of thought a bit problematic. Regardless of what Gurdjieff did or didn't do, I think we need to be careful not to speak of "those mechanical people", "the sheeple" etc. that you can mess with "for their own good". This reasoning is actually close to how the psychos in power operate: we have the master plan, and those idiots are just too dumb to understand it, so we just lie to them for their own good and wreck havoc to the planet, because only we know how to protect them! It seems that free will really is of prime importance, and you can't just reason it away with noble intentions. OSIT
[/quote]

I think that is a good point luc.

I want to add.

Humanity may be for a big part mechanical. But that doesn't mean that many people are not struggling and trying. In fact they really are! When you talk to others, or overhear conversations (In public transportation for example) you notice that people are trying to find the right answers in their life.

Also, their struggles can reflect many of our own. You can learn a great deal if you listen to others and try to figure out the solution.

Also in the previous session the C’s said

Q: (Joe) In that sense, he's kind of a perfect representative of the people who voted him into power. The majority of them probably have their heart in the right place, but they're completely clueless about the world and how it works, you know?

A: Yes

This sessions functions as a powerfull reminder that many people have their hearth in the right place. And since that is the case. I guess it means that we have to keep trying to reach their hearths in ways they can understand. (To get the signal out in an effective way)


Another thing and to extent further on the issue is that if you see everyone as mechanical how do you interact with the others?

Recently I've have a bit more ''daring'' with strangers.

Simply asking someone if they need help because they seem nervous. (Because the older lady in question was confused and afraid she missed her station) Which wasn't the case.

Looking up and wishing someone ''have a good weekend'' on Friday in a language you don't speak after you bought something from them.

Or to say goodbye and smile back to a stewardess when leaving an airplane.

Etc.

''Small'' things such as those can give you a lot of Joy. Interacting in a sincere, decent and kind way with others feels and is the right thing to do. As if you are dancing with creation. But that won't happen if you just see others as ''sheeps''

I don't see how anyone is capable of handling the bigger things effectively (Getting the signal out) if they don't feel or understand how to practise the ''smaller'' things in life. Both should come natural.

I hope that made sense.
[/quote]

Perfect sense.

And I agree,
The problem is
as JG bennet has stated ,
people are confused by their own bodies and the difficulty of communication.

The best work that can be done is with the Higher emotions
and all people ( I Hope ) have experienced them.
The trouble starts when you try to talk about them.
Rodny collin says the centres each have their own language, and the preferred language of the emotional centre is not Words.
JG Bennet speaks of GESTURE being the Highest Language of all,
because it encompasses BEING;

Dont think I am looking down on others,
as I have grown older I too place a much greater Value on ordinary Emotions of day to day Life,
( More on my next post in answer to LUC )

At the same time people Very Much are Like sheep.
And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

 

[Laura]

<snip>
The problem is
as JG bennet has stated ,
people are confused by their own bodies and the difficulty of communication.

The best work that can be done is with the Higher emotions
and all people ( I Hope ) have experienced them.
The trouble starts when you try to talk about them.
Rodny collin says the centres each have their own language, and the preferred language of the emotional centre is not Words.
JG Bennet speaks of GESTURE being the Highest Language of all,
because it encompasses BEING;

Dont think I am looking down on others,
as I have grown older I too place a much greater Value on ordinary Emotions of day to day Life,
( More on my next post in answer to LUC )

At the same time people Very Much are Like sheep.
And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

I think that Bennett and Collins might have learned a lot that was more sensible if they had lived in the present and had access to good cognitive science.

We already have a reading list along that line, but I want to add two books to it that will REALLY expose our "machine" to our eyes. Adrian Raine's "Psychopathy" and "The Anatomy of Violence". Along the way of talking about what goes wrong, he also describes how it all works in normal brains. Crucial information for everyone. It also exposes how limited the Gurjieffian explanations of things are and gives us much better tools for understanding.

 

[SocietyoftheSpectacle]

And of Course he Hypnotises people.

(L) He made it clear that he was experimenting, but that the people he was experimenting on would benefit as a side effect of his objectives. And he said that clearly in his book Herald of the Coming Good.

What else can you do with people who are Hypnotised by nature and the world around them ?
But put them under a lesser form of Hypnosis ,
one that they can perceive and fight their way out of.

I find this line of thought a bit problematic. Regardless of what Gurdjieff did or didn't do, I think we need to be careful not to speak of "those mechanical people", "the sheeple" etc. that you can mess with "for their own good". This reasoning is actually close to how the psychos in power operate: we have the master plan, and those idiots are just too dumb to understand it, so we just lie to them for their own good and wreck havoc to the planet, because only we know how to protect them! It seems that free will really is of prime importance, and you can't just reason it away with noble intentions. OSIT

let me make it a bit clearer.
I was not referring to Hypnotising ordinary people,
Neither I think was Gurdjieff,

But the people who had come to gurdjieff
Of their own free Will asking for Help.

Also it may be interesting to better define what "G" meant by hypnosis.

After all , what is called in the Work "Identification" is a form of hypnosis.

Perpetually Falling under the spell of each passing Image, person , or idea.

Why are people in a state of Constant "Identification" ?
here we can use the analogy of the computer,
and see the State of Identification as an inability to Process Information fast enough
or efficiently enough.

"G" by putting into people's minds an Idea , through Hypnosis
or "FORCED" Identification,
was giving them an Idea that the "Processing of would lead to Understanding the process itself "

Any clearer ?

 

[genero81]

I think that Bennett and Collins might have learned a lot that was more sensible if they had lived in the present and had access to good cognitive science.

We already have a reading list along that line, but I want to add two books to it that will REALLY expose our "machine" to our eyes. Adrian Raine's "Psychopathy" and "The Anatomy of Violence". Along the way of talking about what goes wrong, he also describes how it all works in normal brains. Crucial information for everyone. It also exposes how limited the Gurjieffian explanations of things are and gives us much better tools for understanding.

Already started reading Raine's Psychopathy: An Introduction to Biological Findings and Their Implications Written in clear language and easy to read. At least so far.

Added: I've been thinking lately that cognitive science really is of the utmost importance for getting where we want to go, so to speak. FWIW

 

[lilies]

Thank You for the excellent questions, giving us top quality info on both key topics. Kudos for the amazing transcribing effort! Judging by some increased craziness in our neighborhoods (from above), then by your mention there must be a real asylum-chaos in the Castelsarrassin area, so take care of yourselves!

 

[rymw]

Thank you Laura and team for the great session. I guess the discussion on Gurdjieff again shows that we are all merely humans and to keep on trying, learning and to discern between truth and lie is the best we can do for now.