Session 14 October 2017

[Chu]

[...]

Obviously, your recent experiences in the private forum, from which you were removed, have colored your perceptions, opinions, etc. That's understandable. But then, to quote Gurdjieff:

were eliminated? you threw me a stone and hid your hand? allow me one more idea: you can erase what you want here in the forum, but the universe does not, coming out of this reality, we are all the same, and all the bad energy that I get from you? where he went?

Do you really think that the SAO guidance Cs applauded you standing, after how you "outraged" my being? still think the Cs are still with you?

Oh puh-lease. Not only are you being snippy, rude and condascending, now you're straight up lying. You were removed from the private forum at YOUR request. You chose not to stay and make the required efforts once it was put forth to you. If anything, all your "rhetoric" says is that you have no interest in being here even the public forum.

I think here riclapaz misunderstood, and took Laura's comment to mean that some of his posts had been removed, not him. That just goes to show how little he understands of how we operate and learn here. His posts are full of opportunities to learn how NOT to go about the Work. Why would we want to erase any of that? Half of it is BS and word salads, but we're not going to waste our time deleting even that. No, Laura didn't cast any stone at him to hide her hand afterwards. But riclapaz sure has shown his true colors when thinking that.

Not in fact, the opposite, that there really is nobody above anyone and that one thinks or says he is shooting a bullet in his own foot.

And the only one shooting themselves in the foot, doing exactly the above (while being hypocritical about it and not saying directly that he considers himself better), is riclapaz. I don't want (nor am I equipped to) "diagnose" anyone, but his posts sure reminded me of a mixture of "messianic" schizoidal tendencies combined with a snowflake attitude, if you can picture that combination! Next thing you know, he'll tell you he is channelling the REAL Cassiopeans, and that he can tell because they never "outrage" his being and he feels soooo goood. And of course, their vibrations are much higher than the Cs' and HE is the help that is coming!

We've seen it many times, but it never ceases to amaze me when people who have done nothing to prove themselves and show that they truly care about others and the world, come here and tell us (Laura, mostly), we are doing it all wrong, they have the answer if we beg, etc.

 

[Ant22]

So, maybe you should do that? Our experience has been that asking these sorts of questions and receiving answers has acted as a great protection under conditions you can't even imagine. When you have a body of work and a track record of working for others 24/7 for 20 years, come back and have SURVIVED, come back and talk to me.

And for your work, are you special? has self-importance so high? does that ego give you the right to insult and humiliate people? do you think that SAO orientation Cs will be able to continue in a low vibration?

riclapaz what did you mean by your last sentence in the quoted post? That the C's will abandon Laura and hang out with you instead because your vibration is so much higher than hers?

It would be a good idea for you to take a closer look at your own self-importance before you criticise other people.

Are you saying that the value of your lifetime achievements is equal to, or exceeds, Laura's? I might have missed it so would you mind sharing a link to your own forum with thousands of users, titles of books you've written (and people actually bought) as well as testimonials of the impact of your work on the lives of other people?

You come across as someone who thinks he has it all figured out, who knows better than anyone else here and who is here to show all of us, especially Laura, errors in our thinking. What is more likely: that all of us are wrong? Or that only you are?

riclaplaz, it is quite clear that you have done very little reading of any of the recommended material or have very little understanding of any of the material you've read.

See previous response. And that induces me to ask: why are you even here?

quick response could be that at some level comes the help? I suspect that we will soon know ;)

What does that mean? That you are the help? You're not helping at all by making all kinds of assumptions and by being quite rude.

I agree. riclapaz sounds like he is convinced he doesn't need the help of the forum. The fact that Laura's post from Gurgjieff regarding people who leave a school went straight over his head makes me wonder how much of the remaining material discussed here actually sunk in. I daresay very little. Maybe this is an example of being not keeping up with knowledge input?

[quote author= riclapaz]quick response could be that at some level comes the help? I suspect that we will soon know ;)

Sometimes people act cryptic so that they can be rude in a subtle way. Does this sounds familiar? [/quote]

Good point bjorn. Also, riclapaz's responses are quite sarcastic. In my experience sarcasm is usually a sign of looking down on others, showing that you're better than them. If riclapaz payed more attention he would know that the need to feel superior to others is a program he should work on addressing. Instead, it looks like he's chosen to run it.

Well, at the end of the day case studies are a great way to learn from other people's mistakes and riclapaz's posts so far have provided an opportunity for that.

 

[John G]

And for your work, are you special? has self-importance so high? does that ego give you the right to insult and humiliate people? do you think that SAO orientation Cs will be able to continue in a low vibration?

This reminds me of someone who recently complained on Laura's Facebook page that Laura should not criticize the Press so much because the Press is just using their free will. Well your free will and the free will of the Press (as I responded on Laura's page) does not mean freedom from lies not being shown the light of truth. Yes Laura does not run a nice lady program when doing this; that's actually a good thing. Being in third density aiming for STO candidateville does not actually require you to leave all 3rd density STS methods behind. The Cs actually mentioned that we can do things that they absolutely can not do. I thought it was cool how Julius Caesar called Augustus a vile boy in the session where they talked to JC. Going to wherever JC went apparently did not come with a nice guy program.

You certainly aren't running an effective nice guy program but more of a let's pretend I'm being nice while attacking under the disguise of an attack on all humans. Nice try, didn't work, and you have it all wrong. Hopefully you at least liked the information on Gurdjieff and the Enneagram/hydrogens.

 

[Keit]

You certainly aren't running an effective nice guy program but more of a let's pretend I'm being nice while attacking under the disguise of an attack on all humans. Nice try, didn't work, and you have it all wrong.

One famous Russian individual once said:

It is better to be a good, but swearing man, than to be polite and respectable piece of ****

 

[Joe]

in fact you can do an exercise even more interesting, it could be replaced in the whole session where the name of Gurdjieff's appears to place his name and see if it is possible to find some more hidden clues in the session?

I don't think I've seen a more idiotic statement written on this forum.

 

[Windmill knight]

riclaplaz, it is quite clear that you have done very little reading of any of the recommended material or have very little understanding of any of the material you've read.

See previous response. And that induces me to ask: why are you even here?

quick response could be that at some level comes the help? I suspect that we will soon know ;)

What does that mean? That you are the help? You're not helping at all by making all kinds of assumptions and by being quite rude.

Riclapaz is the kind of person that will preach 'love & light' and then attacks or insults you - but with a smile and a wink because 'love & light'! He has been quite pedanthic in the past but apparently he thinks that smileys make it alright. He thinks he's above everyone else, probably because he follows the '4 Toltec agreements' or some other newage-ism, but in reality it's quite transparent to everyone else how much he is ruled by his own resentment and self-inflated image, in other words the negative emotions that he so much insists he does not have because he is so superior.

You certainly aren't running an effective nice guy program but more of a let's pretend I'm being nice while attacking under the disguise of an attack on all humans. Nice try, didn't work, and you have it all wrong.

One famous Russian individual once said:

It is better to be a good, but swearing man, than to be polite and respectable piece of ****

That says it all!

 

[Cleo]

Thanks all for the session!

Q: (Artemis) That would explain why Castelsarrasin is getting crazier. People are driving very crazy lately. Being very aggressive.

I've been noticing more aggressive driving where I live as well, more people on the road seem to be driving faster in general, expecting you to do the same. I had a scare of my own back in July but it was I who made the risky and uncharacteristic decision to pass a slow truck on a country road (at the time thinking I had a lot more space to pass before the oncoming car in the other lane in the far distance). Things have also changed in the last couple months where I no longer need to drive into the city as much, which considering, I'm glad for.

Thanks as well for the developing info about Gurdjieff and for the research that is being done on the Las Vegas mass shooting.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= luc][quote author= SocietyoftheSpectacle] And of Course he Hypnotises people.

(L) He made it clear that he was experimenting, but that the people he was experimenting on would benefit as a side effect of his objectives. And he said that clearly in his book Herald of the Coming Good.

What else can you do with people who are Hypnotised by nature and the world around them ?
But put them under a lesser form of Hypnosis ,
one that they can perceive and fight their way out of.[/quote]

I find this line of thought a bit problematic. Regardless of what Gurdjieff did or didn't do, I think we need to be careful not to speak of "those mechanical people", "the sheeple" etc. that you can mess with "for their own good". This reasoning is actually close to how the psychos in power operate: we have the master plan, and those idiots are just too dumb to understand it, so we just lie to them for their own good and wreck havoc to the planet, because only we know how to protect them! It seems that free will really is of prime importance, and you can't just reason it away with noble intentions. OSIT
[/quote]

I think that is a good point luc.

I want to add.

Humanity may be for a big part mechanical. But that doesn't mean that many people are not struggling and trying. In fact they really are! When you talk to others, or overhear conversations (In public transportation for example) you notice that people are trying to find the right answers in their life.

Also, their struggles can reflect many of our own. You can learn a great deal if you listen to others and try to figure out the solution.

Also in the previous session the C’s said

Q: (Joe) In that sense, he's kind of a perfect representative of the people who voted him into power. The majority of them probably have their heart in the right place, but they're completely clueless about the world and how it works, you know?

A: Yes

This sessions functions as a powerfull reminder that many people have their hearth in the right place. And since that is the case. I guess it means that we have to keep trying to reach their hearths in ways they can understand. (To get the signal out in an effective way)


Another thing and to extent further on the issue is that if you see everyone as mechanical how do you interact with the others?

Recently I've have a bit more ''daring'' with strangers.

Simply asking someone if they need help because they seem nervous. (Because the older lady in question was confused and afraid she missed her station) Which wasn't the case.

Looking up and wishing someone ''have a good weekend'' on Friday in a language you don't speak after you bought something from them.

Or to say goodbye and smile back to a stewardess when leaving an airplane.

Etc.

''Small'' things such as those can give you a lot of Joy. Interacting in a sincere, decent and kind way with others feels and is the right thing to do. As if you are dancing with creation. But that won't happen if you just see others as ''sheeps''

I don't see how anyone is capable of handling the bigger things effectively (Getting the signal out) if they don't feel or understand how to practise the ''smaller'' things in life. Both should come natural.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Deleted member 4320]

I noticed that exist a healthy way of using the forum: Come here, read or look through. Get some new info, link, get some conclusions from discussions. Thanks to usual using one can learn something new almost every day while being here on the forum. It doesn't require any ego rush what only disrupts learning channel. When you keep your ego under control it opens your eyes that many things are driven just by the ego and it is wasting time and energy. It is brilliant in its simplicity. It's possible to be helpful for others, but this means development in the opposite direction, opposite to ego which should be reduced to tiny size and reduction of the importance of one's existence. Remit one's thoughts, states, subjectiveness, good name and redirect attention and energy to help others rise a bit higher then they are now.

 

[JGeropoulas]

(L) Well, his way of working on the self is not dynamic. It's very static and mechanical. It works probably for... And like I said, the Gurdjieff groups are barren!

(L) I mean, O__ went around and hooked up with different groups around the world, and questioned them. None of them seemed to be remotely aware of hyperdimensional realities. None of them seemed to have ANY social conscience or feeling of giving or sharing to others, responsibility to the universe, at all! It's like working in a Gurdjieff group destroys that. It's designed to destroy that.

(Pierre) The little compassion and conscience people might have gets destroyed when this purely materialistic paradigm is imposed on them, this idea that the Universe is ultimately going to eat them. And then this giving or sharing to others and responsibility to the universe doesn't exist anymore. Doesn't matter.
…
(Ark) Yes. But on the other hand, he was not looking for help I don't think... He thought he was above everybody.

(L) He WAS above everybody, but because he knew he was, he cut himself off from the help that he could possibly have gotten. A network of others to give feedback is invaluable. That is one thing the Cs have taught us.

It was good to hear Laura, Pierre and Ark articulate some misgivings I couldn’t quite put my finger on over the years.

The things I took on board from his work included the very idea of "Work" itself. His observation about human mechanical nature, both in the individual and in populations -and of the varying types of influences acting on them, the idea of prisons and how to break out of them, of crystalization, (though not in a material sense).

And I find the energy refinement idea really powerful when adapted to the concept of densities. -How each layer of density evolution acts as a food processor of sorts for the next level up.

Yeah, it’s easy to take these fundamental esoteric concepts for granted without giving Gurdjieff proper credit

I think the Deep State/FBI Creeps who orchestrated the LV shooting tragedy and are now attempting to cover-up their tracks messed up. A lot of people who have been programmed to dismiss conspiracy theories definitely think something stinks to high heaven in this situation.

That's what I've noticed. There seems to be so much more openness to the idea of corrupt law enforcement officials, scheming intelligence agencies and dishonest media--whose "digging into things" is just a smoke-screen for furthering the cover-up.

Q: (Joe) Okay, so he's a useful idiot in a certain sense. And the drilling sound that he allegedly heard in the room, was that these shooters inside the room drilling in order to escape unseen?

A: Yes.

The only way drilling could help the shooters escape undetected would seem to be if they were drilling to open a door to an adjoining room that was locked from that room. Does anyone know if there was an adjoining room? If so, then that’s just one more piece of evidence being ignored that there were other shooters involved.

This is especially important for me: "A: Planetary movement through space-time area of realm border." Because I was wondering what kind of energy affects more and more people to losing their minds, becoming Nazis, extremists, racists, homosexuals, bisexuals, flat-earthers ...

Homosexuality and bisexuality is not the result of "people losing their minds"! All sexual orientations are determined by genetic and childhood environmental factors, not twisted beliefs acquired later in life, as is the case with Nazis, extremists, racists and flat-earthers.

Q: (L) Well things are CRAZY out there, sweetie! It's like so unbelievably crazy right now, we must really be passing through a realm border. There is no other way to explain what... I mean, it's like the whole... I can't even... I don't even want to talk about it right now.

It's become too painful to watch indeed. Each time one thinks the bottom has been reached, something more mad appears and breaks the record of craziness.

So true!

It seems like people are losing their consciousness. Perhaps the wave takes those who don't have much or any self-awareness and pulls them into a zombie state. Then either numb or extreme behavior comes out as a automatic reaction.

That’s how it seems to me too.

 

[msante]

[...]
We've seen it many times, but it never ceases to amaze me when people who have done nothing to prove themselves and show that they truly care about others and the world, come here and tell us (Laura, mostly), we are doing it all wrong, they have the answer if we beg, etc.

I think so too, and another thing that never cease to amaze me is when people that is supposed is doing the Work have this kind of arrogant attitude toward people that proved to be wiser, have infinitely more experience, and truly care about others.

I think that If one makes the tasks of a worthy member of this forum (readings, self-observation, meditations, sharings,... and a long etc) IMO one's more suitable attitude to feedback would be to doubt about oneself and set aside (and if it is possible to take advantage of the opportunity to observe) the first emotional reaction (which is usually defensive, specially when we feel that our sacred cows are being attacked or our "greatness"is called into question).

Ricipaz seems react ever (not just here, in previous posts too) with a "galloping arrogance", trying to hide his obvious anger in a mask of "master Yoda squared" and entering to defensive mode instantly. More awesome is that he seems convinced that HE OWNS THE TRUTH and have the audacity to speak with airs of a great master. Really I am absolutely stunned seeing people with this sort of lack of humility... well, just like Chu says, this is a great opportunity to learn how NOT to go about the Work..

 

[Kisito]

I noticed that exist a healthy way of using the forum: Come here, read or look through. Get some new info, link, get some conclusions from discussions. Thanks to usual using one can learn something new almost every day while being here on the forum. It doesn't require any ego rush what only disrupts learning channel. When you keep your ego under control it opens your eyes that many things are driven just by the ego and it is wasting time and energy. It is brilliant in its simplicity. It's possible to be helpful for others, but this means development in the opposite direction, opposite to ego which should be reduced to tiny size and reduction of the importance of one's existence. Remit one's thoughts, states, subjectiveness, good name and redirect attention and energy to help others rise a bit higher then they are now.

Hello, thank you for this very interesting session. Thank you for the work of Laura and the team. I wanted to thank Ark for these pertinent questions, I wanted to know more about the realities and the chaos that is coming. I made one or two little posts on this subject, making the analogy of memories (quantum and karmic memories) and temporal dimensions.https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8915;area=showposts;start=0

The dissemination of the cat would ultimately be only a hormonal conjuncture, and not of a "Déjà vu".

I do not know the intrinsic story with riclapaz, but I find the answers of Laura and Joe disturbing, and from an outside look, there is an impression of harm.
As if their beliefs were in conflict. They are natural intellectual leaders and it is not necessary to respond to every mosquito bite. Sometimes the recall of a sting is not harmful.

Apart from the members of the castle, which is their duty to defend the house, I remain cautious to see others continue to "throw the stone". When a man is "KO", he understands that the one who struck him is superior to him, so why throw another stone, and what purpose? Either they think that Laura has misunderstood, and that they have a better explanation, either it is the syndrome of belonging / recognition, or perhaps "something I do not know what" family souls?

On Gurdjieff, if nobody contradicted him in 1930, do you think that if he would have been our guide instead of Laura (in 2017), there would have been someone to contradict him? Probably not. Or maybe Laura, but would we have defended Laura or Gurdjieff? We are in intellectual comfort. "Life is real only when" I am "". So who are we?

Sorry Lux to associate you with my thought ... but I had in filigree all along my post.

 

[JGeropoulas]

[...]
We've seen it many times, but it never ceases to amaze me when people who have done nothing to prove themselves and show that they truly care about others and the world, come here and tell us (Laura, mostly), we are doing it all wrong, they have the answer if we beg, etc.

I think so too, and another thing that never cease to amaze me is when people that is supposed is doing the Work have this kind of arrogant attitude toward people that proved to be wiser, have infinitely more experience, and truly care about others.

I think that If one makes the tasks of a worthy member of this forum (readings, self-observation, meditations, sharings,... and a long etc) IMO one's more suitable attitude to feedback would be to doubt about oneself and set aside (and if it is possible to take advantage of the opportunity to observe) the first emotional reaction (which is usually defensive, specially when we feel that our sacred cows are being attacked or our "greatness"is called into question).

Ricipaz seems react ever (not just here, in previous posts too) with a "galloping arrogance", trying to hide his obvious anger in a mask of "master Yoda squared" and entering to defensive mode instantly. More awesome is that he seems convinced that HE OWNS THE TRUTH and have the audacity to speak with airs of a great master. Really I am absolutely stunned seeing people with this sort of lack of humility... well, just like Chu says, this is a great opportunity to learn how NOT to go about the Work..

Also a classic example of someone suffering from the Dunning-Kruger syndrome
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,19024.0.html

 

[Renaissance]

Riclapaz is the kind of person that will preach 'love & light' and then attacks or insults you - but with a smile and a wink because 'love & light'! He has been quite pedanthic in the past but apparently he thinks that smileys make it alright. He thinks he's above everyone else, probably because he follows the '4 Toltec agreements' or some other newage-ism, but in reality it's quite transparent to everyone else how much he is ruled by his own resentment and self-inflated image, in other words the negative emotions that he so much insists he does not have because he is so superior.

Yes, Riclapaz demonstrates very well what narcissism with a 'spiritual' veneer looks like. It's not much different than the classic 'nice guy' image used to try and manipulate a potential partner (or rather a victim he sets his eyes on). This may work for a damaged person, but most healthy people see right through it and are totally creeped out. Once they're told NO, they turn their covert aggression on the person and attempt to slime them. Well, Riclapaz can take his slimy pseudo-spirituality somewhere else.

 

[Alejo]

Riclapaz is the kind of person that will preach 'love & light' and then attacks or insults you - but with a smile and a wink because 'love & light'! He has been quite pedanthic in the past but apparently he thinks that smileys make it alright. He thinks he's above everyone else, probably because he follows the '4 Toltec agreements' or some other newage-ism, but in reality it's quite transparent to everyone else how much he is ruled by his own resentment and self-inflated image, in other words the negative emotions that he so much insists he does not have because he is so superior.

Yes, Riclapaz demonstrates very well what narcissism with a 'spiritual' veneer looks like. It's not much different than the classic 'nice guy' image used to try and manipulate a potential partner (or rather a victim he sets his eyes on). This may work for a damaged person, but most healthy people see right through it and are totally creeped out. Once they're told NO, they turn their covert aggression on the person and attempt to slime them. Well, Riclapaz can take his slimy pseudo-spirituality somewhere else.

That is precisely the word I was about to use: narcissist.

He literally just said that because his ego was offended, HIS ego, then the C’s left... I mean... that is literally the graphic representation of “the universe (and all densities) revolves around me”. And it’s kind of creepy to see the underhanded not-so-clever actual stones being thrown at Laura and the group capped off with a smiley emoticon. :)

riclapaz has displayed the classic state of mind of: “so long as it pleases me it’s good, the minute it doesn’t or challenges my dogmas then it must be evil”.

I’d like to echo Laura’s question: why are you here? Because as of right now it sounds like you feel as though... you’ve come here to save us?