Session 14 October 2017

[Laura]

So far what I found out about G. work is that he did put the very important foundation for any one who wants to do more, and yes, I can also say that I feel that you extended that even more further, and putting some other things into perspective that G. maybe didn't have interest in ... and on a way that is good example of how through the time our body continuing the knowledge quest through longer period of time. I am not sure if I am willing to read all the books you are mentioning, that is the way how you approach the access to the "Knowledge" but any way I think that in this time it is at least for me very important to stay focused on the moment, and as well as to be able to see and discernment things without any attachments ... so that I can see for my self good and bad things form G. as well as from you as well as from Tesla and as well as from me ...

Well, if you aren't able to read the books, you might at least follow the threads where they will be discussed:
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44863.0.html
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44650.0.html
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44948.0.html

I'm even wondering at this point if we ought to merge the threads and keep it all together.

Even though this latest reading has been something of a roller coaster for me emotionally, for some reason, I feel a great deal of hope and encouragement because it feels like a paradigm shift in understanding.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

So far what I found out about G. work is that he did put the very important foundation for any one who wants to do more, and yes, I can also say that I feel that you extended that even more further, and putting some other things into perspective that G. maybe didn't have interest in ... and on a way that is good example of how through the time our body continuing the knowledge quest through longer period of time. I am not sure if I am willing to read all the books you are mentioning, that is the way how you approach the access to the "Knowledge" but any way I think that in this time it is at least for me very important to stay focused on the moment, and as well as to be able to see and discernment things without any attachments ... so that I can see for my self good and bad things form G. as well as from you as well as from Tesla and as well as from me ...

Well, if you aren't able to read the books, you might at least follow the threads where they will be discussed:
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44863.0.html
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44650.0.html
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44948.0.html

I'm even wondering at this point if we ought to merge the threads and keep it all together.

Even though this latest reading has been something of a roller coaster for me emotionally, for some reason, I feel a great deal of hope and encouragement because it feels like a paradigm shift in understanding.

Thank you, yes I will, I already started Gurdjieff's Primitive Cosmology ...

 

[PERLOU]

Merci Laura pour le partage des liens que vous nous offrez...
Une excellente lecture des commentaires en attendant de recevoir les deux livres de Robin G. Collingwood...

Thank you Laura for sharing the links you offer us ...
An excellent read of comments while waiting to receive the two books of Robin G. Collingwood ...

 

[Laura]

Merci Laura pour le partage des liens que vous nous offrez...
Une excellente lecture des commentaires en attendant de recevoir les deux livres de Robin G. Collingwood...

Thank you Laura for sharing the links you offer us ...
An excellent read of comments while waiting to receive the two books of Robin G. Collingwood ...

Perhaps in the course of the discussion of those who are reading the texts, a lot will be outlined and described for everyone else.

 

[bjorb]

Sorry SocietyoftheSpectacle,

I missed your comment from days ago in which you responded on our conversation.

[quote author= SocietyoftheSpectacle]And I agree,
The problem is
as JG bennet has stated ,
people are confused by their own bodies and the difficulty of communication.
[/quote]

What I think is that people should first be able to sort themselves out before they can even think of taking responsibility of something higher. I think many are trying to sort themselves out, but it isn't an easy task. I wish we could provide humanity at how to undertake that. A new kind of religion or way of life that would be service of this.

We got The 4th Way, Jordan Peterson, the big 5 books. + more.

+ Detoxifying our bodies, living and eating healthy also makes a big part of it.

Perhaps one day we could sum all the good parts up in one book. For example:

''How to dance with the Universe for dummies'' (To start with)

You might think that with the souring and increasing suicide and depression rates people are desperate for a way of life where they can life for each other. Because many ideologies and egoistic and soulless lifestyles of today are leading us of a cliff.

That said, I'm also trying to sort myself out.


[quote author= SocietyoftheSpectacle]Dont think I am looking down on others,
as I have grown older I too place a much greater Value on ordinary Emotions of day to day Life,[/quote]

I wasn't trying to imply that, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyhow just to be sure. That said, I can very well imagine that people after a while may be feel down folded by the state of humanity. I know I was and still am. But luckily it's now to a lesser degree where I can find the energy to do more and not get sucked up by it all to much.

But just seeing the rest of humanity as purely mechanical is to black and white. OSIT.

Yes many actions are mechanical. But I believe that many people are also trying. The thing is that it can be very hard to figure out life, and our role within it.

We all need help from time to time. But I'm afraid there isn't sufficient guidance on this planet at the moment to help humanity out of his mess. Like said, perhaps humanity needs a new form of religion.


Anyhow, I'm going to finish the suggested books now.

 

[Mandrak]

It would have been easier to just ride that out, everything is framed by some simplistic explanation from the eyes of people such as Alex Jones and other people who were "so sure of things". But, as many of us felt, there was something missing because just having "consensus" and alternative authorities saying this- did not make it true (or false).

It is similar to the whole right movement (which consists in part of the theoretician of conspiracy). Some people jump into the stampede and let them carry them. Thus some nonsense and imbalance is spreading. It is not a crystal clear movement, it is not purified (there is hatred and ignorance, estimation of people based on race, nation, religion).
I tried arguing to talk to my brother around the flat-Earth, but he seemed to have made a decision (deaf for the arguments). So I avoid talking to him about it. Waste of time. Flat-Earth is not the only problem with him, he has become a magnet and the source of various mad ideas. So maybe this is really a kind of disintegration. But also I do not feel myself sharp as before and I try to find something to get in shape and succeed, partly, sometimes, not quite. I wonder if this is the result of an external factor (chaotic energy of the universe) or just an internal factor. Perhaps cosmic energy tests everything to separate the Wheat from the Chaff. So if one invests himself in falsehood and negative energy, it can mean that he goes to the trash can. If someone feels bad, maybe the recycling already started? I feel like I'm on the edge of recycling vortex of a black hole, so maybe I will get out, maybe not.

 

[Zar]

I definitely think that children should not be exposed to things that are beyond their capacity to bear emotionally or to rationally process cognitively--which are the essence of trauma. So young boys taken to a gay pride parade might become confused about some things (e.g. appropriate public vs private behaviors which might set them up to be more easily exploited by pedophiles) but I don't think that it would derail their sexual orientation, which seems to be so hardwired by such an early age that it's proven impossible to change even with extreme therapies.

I don't know about that. With gender dysphoria all of a sudden on the rise where teenagers are one day waking up and believing themselves to be the opposite sex, or no gender at all, is very alarming and shows how susceptible human beings are to pernicious programming and manipulation of their sexual identity, which is safe to say more embedded in our hard-wiring and physiology than sexual orientation or preference. To add to it, the Gay Pride Movement seems to be the main vehicle to spread this sort of sexual hedonism "anything goes" kind of attitude where this pathological perception of sex is spreading, osit. And it is being pushed and has become very 'in your face' in today's media.

I'm not an expert but I think that sexual preferences of a partner shouldn't be affected by the normalization of gender dysphoria but what would be changed is the social interactions between the sexes. Who you are attracted to should not change but how you interact with people can since courtship and social interactions are learnt from the environment. So if the environment becomes warped in terms of sexual/social interaction then the learnt interactions of the next generation will act in accordance with their environment. Monkey see monkey do?

Sexual preference is "programmed" very early on and changing these programs is not a very simple thing to do. So I think what may change the social behaviour and sexual interactions of people is influenced by what becomes socially acceptable/normal, if everyone is romping with everyone else(let alone pedo/bestiality/rape replacing homosexuality/transsexuality in terms of variance from the norm) then the norm is to romp everyone. Homosexual/Transexual/Cissexual? acts wouldn't become such a big deal, especially when gender dysphoria blurs the "gender" lines in the post modernist mindsets. But then this is assuming that gender dysphoria will become normalized(which is the direction it's going sadly) and I'm not sure about the effect this normalization will have on different people; OP vs Souled. Or it may have an effect similar to what egalitarian societies have on gender expression, i.e. females became more feminine and vice versa.

Am I making sense?

If I'm understanding you correctly then what you're saying is the outward manifestation of sexuality will be based on society's dictates, so "anything goes" and it's good to experiment so therefore those that are young and impressionable will do it because it's what's almost expected of them but that kind of societal programming won't necessarily reach the deeper core of their inherent nature of who or what they are? Monkey see, monkey do like you said. If that is what you mean then it's similar to my thoughts on it. Although I might not have been clear in expressing that.

Yes that's right but there is more that I was trying to say, and I think I have beaten around the bush a little with my explanation. My comment was a response to the idea that "sexual identity is more embedded in our hard-wiring and physiology than sexual orientation", and you could be right, but I thought that sexual orientation occurs first from the interactions with the father/mother as the genes activate. I believe the C's gave a time frame for the activation of these genes that opens a window to "program" sexual orientation. Sexual identity occurs later when a child is more developed(probably generalizing here as it is more complicated than that). Mind you there is the concept of neuroplasticity, types of souls, level of soul development, etc., that play a part so I'm not confident to make any statements on what is more hardwired. That being said I don't think the issue is of whether one is more hardwired that the other but of what they do to the person.

The PTB are in the business of creating chaos, and one way is to pin peoples minds against their selves. Sexual orientation and sexual identity are closely linked, I think, so what better way to create outward chaos than to increase the chaos inside people's minds through doublethink/cognitive dissonance. And if that's the case you can imagine what would happen when these people are indoctrinated by a post modernism mindset. Let alone all the chemicals, drugs, toxins, ect. that we encounter. This early internal conflict may even be priming people to more easily accept ideologies like post modernism.

My two cents.

 

[liam1310]

Thanks for the session guys

«Laura October 18, 2017, 03:21:15 PM »
We already have a reading list along that line, but I want to add two books to it that will REALLY expose our "machine" to our eyes. Adrian Raine's "Psychopathy" and "The Anatomy of Violence". Along the way of talking about what goes wrong, he also describes how it all works in normal brains. Crucial information for everyone. It also exposes how limited the Gurjieffian explanations of things are and gives us much better tools for understanding.

I will be purchasing the recommended books thanks Laura.

Keep up the amazing work guys.

 

[genero81]

So far what I found out about G. work is that he did put the very important foundation for any one who wants to do more, and yes, I can also say that I feel that you extended that even more further, and putting some other things into perspective that G. maybe didn't have interest in ... and on a way that is good example of how through the time our body continuing the knowledge quest through longer period of time. I am not sure if I am willing to read all the books you are mentioning, that is the way how you approach the access to the "Knowledge" but any way I think that in this time it is at least for me very important to stay focused on the moment, and as well as to be able to see and discernment things without any attachments ... so that I can see for my self good and bad things form G. as well as from you as well as from Tesla and as well as from me ...

Well, if you aren't able to read the books, you might at least follow the threads where they will be discussed:
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44863.0.html
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44650.0.html
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44948.0.html

I'm even wondering at this point if we ought to merge the threads and keep it all together.

Even though this latest reading has been something of a roller coaster for me emotionally, for some reason, I feel a great deal of hope and encouragement because it feels like a paradigm shift in understanding.

I know what you mean! I just posted a similar sentiment on the thread Gurdjieff's Primitive Cosmology before reading this post. It's exciting! I could swear I feel a quantum jump in comprehension coming. Learning is fun!

I vote for merging threads- FWIW

 

[Pierre]

I definitely think that children should not be exposed to things that are beyond their capacity to bear emotionally or to rationally process cognitively--which are the essence of trauma. So young boys taken to a gay pride parade might become confused about some things (e.g. appropriate public vs private behaviors which might set them up to be more easily exploited by pedophiles) but I don't think that it would derail their sexual orientation, which seems to be so hardwired by such an early age that it's proven impossible to change even with extreme therapies.

I don't know about that. With gender dysphoria all of a sudden on the rise where teenagers are one day waking up and believing themselves to be the opposite sex, or no gender at all, is very alarming and shows how susceptible human beings are to pernicious programming and manipulation of their sexual identity, which is safe to say more embedded in our hard-wiring and physiology than sexual orientation or preference. To add to it, the Gay Pride Movement seems to be the main vehicle to spread this sort of sexual hedonism "anything goes" kind of attitude where this pathological perception of sex is spreading, osit. And it is being pushed and has become very 'in your face' in today's media.

I'm not an expert but I think that sexual preferences of a partner shouldn't be affected by the normalization of gender dysphoria but what would be changed is the social interactions between the sexes. Who you are attracted to should not change but how you interact with people can since courtship and social interactions are learnt from the environment. So if the environment becomes warped in terms of sexual/social interaction then the learnt interactions of the next generation will act in accordance with their environment. Monkey see monkey do?

Sexual preference is "programmed" very early on and changing these programs is not a very simple thing to do. So I think what may change the social behaviour and sexual interactions of people is influenced by what becomes socially acceptable/normal, if everyone is romping with everyone else(let alone pedo/bestiality/rape replacing homosexuality/transsexuality in terms of variance from the norm) then the norm is to romp everyone. Homosexual/Transexual/Cissexual? acts wouldn't become such a big deal, especially when gender dysphoria blurs the "gender" lines in the post modernist mindsets. But then this is assuming that gender dysphoria will become normalized(which is the direction it's going sadly) and I'm not sure about the effect this normalization will have on different people; OP vs Souled. Or it may have an effect similar to what egalitarian societies have on gender expression, i.e. females became more feminine and vice versa.

Am I making sense?

If I'm understanding you correctly then what you're saying is the outward manifestation of sexuality will be based on society's dictates, so "anything goes" and it's good to experiment so therefore those that are young and impressionable will do it because it's what's almost expected of them but that kind of societal programming won't necessarily reach the deeper core of their inherent nature of who or what they are? Monkey see, monkey do like you said. If that is what you mean then it's similar to my thoughts on it. Although I might not have been clear in expressing that.

Yes that's right but there is more that I was trying to say, and I think I have beaten around the bush a little with my explanation. My comment was a response to the idea that "sexual identity is more embedded in our hard-wiring and physiology than sexual orientation", and you could be right, but I thought that sexual orientation occurs first from the interactions with the father/mother as the genes activate. I believe the C's gave a time frame for the activation of these genes that opens a window to "program" sexual orientation. Sexual identity occurs later when a child is more developed(probably generalizing here as it is more complicated than that). Mind you there is the concept of neuroplasticity, types of souls, level of soul development, etc., that play a part so I'm not confident to make any statements on what is more hardwired. That being said I don't think the issue is of whether one is more hardwired that the other but of what they do to the person.

The PTB are in the business of creating chaos, and one way is to pin peoples minds against their selves. Sexual orientation and sexual identity are closely linked, I think, so what better way to create outward chaos than to increase the chaos inside people's minds through doublethink/cognitive dissonance. And if that's the case you can imagine what would happen when these people are indoctrinated by a post modernism mindset. Let alone all the chemicals, drugs, toxins, ect. that we encounter. This early internal conflict may even be priming people to more easily accept ideologies like post modernism.

My two cents.

I agree with you. Today the LGBT propaganda is even enforced in kindergarden, when children are still in imprinting phase.

Even if this propaganda does not definitely transform heterosexuals into homosexuals (that remains to be proved), let's be aware of how much damage this can do to the next generations. How many, pushed by the ambient pro-LGBT atmosphere, will have sexual activities that they might bitterly regret later? How many will go through painful sex change surgery only to realize later that it's not what they really wanted? How many will blindly embrace some hormone therapy that will mess up their whole body and mind?

In any case, I think that the crux of the matter is not about switching kids to homosexuality but to normalize pedophilia. That's the real motivation beyond the increasing exposure of kids to sexuality (done in the name of education), and the enforcement of acceptance of a broad range of sexualities (done in the name of freedom). The former hypersexualizes kids while the latter makes any kind of sexual interaction acceptable.

When you combine the two then the normalization of pedophilia follows naturally and it will be proclaimed in the name of progress that brings the freedom and emancipation of children.

 

[BHelmet]

I agree with you. Today the LGBT propaganda is even enforced in kindergarden, when children are still in imprinting phase.

Even if this propaganda does not definitely transform heterosexuals into homosexuals (that remains to be proved), let's be aware of how much damage this can do to the next generations. How many, pushed by the ambient pro-LGBT atmosphere, will have sexual activities that they might bitterly regret later? How many will go through painful sex change surgery only to realize later that it's not what they really wanted? How many will blindly embrace some hormone therapy that will mess up their whole body and mind?

In any case, I think that the crux of the matter is not about switching kids to homosexuality but to normalize pedophilia. That's the real motivation beyond the increasing exposure of kids to sexuality (done in the name of education), and the enforcement of acceptance of a broad range of sexualities (done in the name of freedom). The former hypersexualizes kids while the latter makes any kind of sexual interaction acceptable.

When you combine the two then the normalization of pedophilia follows naturally and it will be proclaimed in the name of progress that brings the freedom and emancipation of children.

I think this is one aspect. When I was a young teenager and began to notice the worlds problems, I thought that our society was far too obsessed with sex, given the problems I saw humanity having. Of course when I became older and was overwhelmed with the chemicals, I was sucked into the bio-chem vortex of sexuality (thank you 4D STS! )

The focus on sexuality and its perversions have many effects all of which suit the powers that be:

1. Disabling real thought
2. Obsessing with overwhelming emotions which also disables the higher mind
3. Producing guilt which makes people more manageable and controllable
4. It is the very pinnacle of STS - drains to 4D STS
5. It is, after all, the primary way we fell - (see C's description of sales job "oops, sorry, forgot to tell you; you can't go back!" and something to the effect "became addicted to pleasuring the self very quickly")
6. Soul smashing
7 Yule Brenner: "et cetera, ...et cetera, ...et cetera...."

So I think the Pedophile thing is part of i; but the whole sexual revolution has led to changes in the values and boundaries of societies (pleasure/STS/Narcissism) which enables and enhances the control and domination of humanity by 4D STS.

 

[Rennie564]

So is the "diminishing nature" of things as mentioned a direct result of the 4D sts siphoning of our "energy" through the entrophy/death sciences/Fibonacci spiral/dogma mind virus? (I have absolutely no clue what to call in our regular human words that which i can clearly imagine) The only way I can think of to share this thought is.....you can ride the wave in a spiraling Vortex, but if you try to float on a Torus raft, you're going to get pulled under because energy is siphoned FROM you when you are operating or resonating in a Torus form but you retain your infinite energy when it resonating in a vortex form. I know thats a somewhat crazy explanation, but it's a concept in my mind that just doesn't translate well.

 

[placematt]

wow, such an interesting session. thank you so much for sharing. Its really interesting looking back to gurdjieff with perspective. And you all have such fascinating and really thought provoking questions and discussion. Again, thanks so much for sharing!

 

[Keyhole]

Thanks for this session, it was fascinating especially with regard to G's interpretation of reality.

Throughout my time reading the work relating to Gurdjieff's ideas, there have been multiple occasions where I felt like I hit a brick-wall in trying to understand what was meant by the words on the page. For example, the table of hydrogens and law of octaves never really made much sense. Although I just assumed that I was not yet intelligent enough to be able to comprehend the meaning or significance of it all. There was always difficulty when attempting to reconcile G's cosmology with the one laid out by the C's (which seemed to resonate with me).

I have also found it difficult to come to terms with the possibility of G being totally unaware of the existence of hyperdimensional realities. The famous story about the "magician" seemed to apply very well in this context, and it made sense to me that this was G's way of explaining the concept of 4D STS to people in an understandable way. With all of this new information... it seems like this assumption must be discarded.

Coming to terms with the fact that even G did not have all of the answers, tearing him down from the imaginary pedestal I had erected in my mind, and starting afresh feels kinda strange. I am not quite sure how to describe how I feel about it all. It feels a little like I have lost a small part of myself, or a sacred cow. I am trying to steer away from black and white thinking.

As was said by many here, G's power of observation and extensive understanding of human psychology were his greatest contributions and have personally helped me a lot in trying to understand the state of the human condition. So it would be silly to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. But a question which bugs me is: where to go from this point onward?

I guess the answer to that question can be found somewhere from the extensive readings and recommendations by Laura, so thanks for that. I hope that working through these books can help provide clarity and some direction.

I am at around section II of Collingwood's "Idea of History", although most of the time I find it difficult to obtain anything from it. Perhaps I need to go back and read it again from the start. Yesterday Jennifer asked me what I had learned from the book so far, and I was shocked by the fact that I couldn't even answer that question . It is truly dense, and I am doubtful that I will be able to see the value in the insight provided by Collingwood. So again, thanks to everyone who has simplified and explained some of the ideas in the various threads!

 

[Keit]

I think you (and JG) are belittling the matter a bit here. It's not that being gay has "lost a little of the cultural sting", it is actively and strongly promoted on all channels! As one example among many, the song "I kissed a girl" by Katy Perry comes to mind that was on the radio non-stop everywhere. Not to mention the "gay aesthetic" of most models and advertisements and so on.

Indeed. Here's for example what you can find while taking Toronto's subway. And kids of all ages are using it too!