Session 22 February 2010

[Navigator]

rolyateel, incredible! I must join the choir, it looks very pro. Good job!

 

[chachazoom]

wow....I've atempted to post three times and each time it failed. I'll try once more Reading the description of Sue, Bob and child brought up alot of thoughts and emotions. In my life for reasons still not clear, I've experienced "autism" up close and from unique angles. I'm always expanding my knowledge trying to understand autism, and psychopathy. Sue sounds like my sil and others I've known. I think there are forms of high functioning autism that are almost impossible to identify because it is not expressed in ways that autism is generally understood. Children with classic expressions, usually boys, are more easily identified. I'm not so sure that the ratio of male to female IS higher but that female expression is often concealed better. It's strange but people refer to the highest functioning forms of autism as "mild" and yet the autism, mindblindness, inability to empathize, see others is the same but the high intelligence conceals it better so I find it strange that it's described as mild....the more difficult it is to identify the more damage it can cause others.
Anyways in my experiences, years and years now of careful observation, I've found where ever there is an autistic child there's an autistic parent often unrecognized as such. I recognized some things about Sue like her not remembering names, ego centric thinking, thoughtless procreation that raised red flags. Every female I've suspected was a high functioning autistic seems to lack common sense when it comes to getting pregnant and family planning. They seem to view their mates as a possession, almost like a slave master relationship (because their possession is valuable to them, supports a desired image or makes their life easier, their posessive nature can be perceived as love by the partner) and everyone else is viewed basically as either good or bad depending on how they affect them. Good people cater to them and support their image and bad people don't, bad people take them out of their comfort zone. They seem to in some areas with their babies, appear dedicated but in other areas, there's a huge contradiction. As in the case of my sil, she's able to apply things she's learned that a mothers suppose to do (I suspect for her image) but in instances where and emotional response to others is expected there's a void. Only when her self image was affected was their an emotional response.
A telltale sign is that chaos always surrounds them....sometimes it's not easy to trace it to them.
I have deep empathy for the partner because I think they fall into a trap. One that is hard to imagine unless you've been trapped or experienced intense exposure. I think long term exposure inevitably leads to ptsd and the Cassandra phenomenon for the affected which is the non autistic partner/children.
I know I don't KNOW anything for sure but just the feel of this especially when Laura desribed her shock and laying down that night with her heart hurting like there was an elephant on her chest. The chaos......the catering. When I was trying to put words to many experiences in the early years, I thought it was like everyone around them could be puking or biting their nails or walking on eggshells and they simply wouldn't notice. they'd only notice if you forgot the cream for their coffee. It's crazy making. HFA is in a class of it's own.
Now when I observe or listen to issues pertaining to autism, I listen for things that aren't pushed to the forefront. For example I was listening to Jenny Garth and speaking about vaccinations as the sole trigger of autism but in there somewhere she droped a couple of lines about her husband's response to the discovery of their son being autistic. Just a few words about his lack of emotional response and other behaviours that raised a red flag. I'm always trying to understand more, like what the difference would be between a very highly intelligent autistic person and a psychopath? Are all psychopaths autistic? One I know is a neurological conditions but I wonder if the pathological psychopath's brain would show up as autistic?

 

[Mona]

Wow, what an experience; I am so glad that everyone came out of it OK. I am truly grateful that this session was posted. This situtation that Bob got himself into will help our awareness antennas be more attuned than ever before. You have no idea how many times I have got myself in similar situations before, not necessarily romantic, where I would trust someone with my whole heart and then be later pushed into a pit so fast that I would not even be fully aware of when, why or by whom I was guided to end up in a situtation which I would not have chosen if I was fully aware of what was being done intentionally to both parties playing the game. In those situations I always felt being hypnotised somehow and then when i eventually came to my senses, after falling into the pit while being badly scratched, I always fell into depression. It can be very degrading to the human soul when one gets into such situations often, even though one is being aware that one can be fooled psychically in such a way. I think that being constantly on alert could save us a lot of unnecessary pain.

I hope Bob's experience will make us, all, more awake at all times. I just hope he will come out of it stronger; it's a very difficult situati he is in. And to Laura and the team, you are the greatest. No wonder you are doing this work, it takes a lot of courage and strength to be able to do this.

 

[Nathan]

I am not sure how much work would be involved with making it workable in France, but I'd be happy to donate it for the budding film editor.

Even if it could be upgraded, it wouldn't do the job. Video editing requires a LOT of processing power.

I've recently downgraded to a laptop, so my desktop PC's components are available. I built it myself a few years ago, but I've been using it all of this time and it works a treat. Quad core 2.4GHz (motherboard included), 4GB RAM, GeForce 8600GT 512MB. There's also a couple of internal hard drives, 500 and 320GB. They're not Seagate though.

 

[Lauranimal]

Vulcan:

Really cool rolyateel. Great idea. Thumbs up FWIW and I don't know what others might say, perhaps it should be toned down a bit as it gives the impression that we are a very sleek, well funded set up, so to speak. Might scare some people away, I don't know. Huh?

Indeed there may be another (or several other) approaches to this perception.

"Good evening and Welcome to Signs of the Times, bringing you the most relevant news & information from our Virtual Studio here in Toulouse, France.

Today, as we discuss recent revelations about bla-di-bla-bla, we will connect the dots back to related historical data from bla-di-bla."

I think starting out by announcing that it is a virtual studio actually gives you the freedom to change the backdrop according to what you are doing on any given report. Like maybe always start out with a background that reflects something close to how things really are and how much funding you really have, and as the music fades in at the beginning of the program and you focus in on the speaker, have the background morph in to the slick professional scene that Royalteel came up with. A screen that can also be morphed to fit a given day's topic or historical context.

Just thinkin outloud.

 

[LQB]

rolyateel, incredible! I must join the choir, it looks very pro. Good job!

Me too! Nice impact - made me recognize more of the net-things I've seen recently.

 

[RyanX]

Anyways in my experiences, years and years now of careful observation, I've found where ever there is an autistic child there's an autistic parent often unrecognized as such. I recognized some things about Sue like her not remembering names, ego centric thinking, thoughtless procreation that raised red flags. Every female I've suspected was a high functioning autistic seems to lack common sense when it comes to getting pregnant and family planning. They seem to view their mates as a possession, almost like a slave master relationship (because their possession is valuable to them, supports a desired image or makes their life easier, their posessive nature can be perceived as love by the partner) and everyone else is viewed basically as either good or bad depending on how they affect them. Good people cater to them and support their image and bad people don't, bad people take them out of their comfort zone. They seem to in some areas with their babies, appear dedicated but in other areas, there's a huge contradiction. As in the case of my sil, she's able to apply things she's learned that a mothers suppose to do (I suspect for her image) but in instances where and emotional response to others is expected there's a void. Only when her self image was affected was their an emotional response.
A telltale sign is that chaos always surrounds them....sometimes it's not easy to trace it to them.

Wow, these are some really good observations chachazoom. I've noticed the same thing in a several females I've known over the years, one of which I was married to for 8 years. The only other thing I would add that I've noticed is chaotic social relationships, especially in the sense of having frequent "fall outs" with people whom at one point they were very close to. One day somebody could be their best friend and then next their worse enemy. This observation and others you mention could also be signs of Narcissistic wounding too, but taken together as a whole I think it paints a picture of something a bit beyond Narcissism perhaps. I'm not sure, that is just my impression at this point. I would be interested in learning more on this topic as well.

 

[Renaissance]

There's much in this session that's been on my mind since reading it. I appreciate that you decided to post it Laura and I'm sorry for what you and everyone at the Chateau had gone through. It sounds like it could have been much worse and I get the impression that Andromeda wasn't kidding when she said that she had the feeling that the baby was sent to kill all of you with his disease. There were so many strange events that occurred where it seems a domino effect could have easily taken place if there weren't conscious decisions being made. Big props to Belibaste for getting the electric company to come out in the middle of the night. I imagine if you all had to sleep through the night without heat or with little heat, then your immune systems would have been already been wore down when the baby arrived and the sickness may have been much worse, which could have made Laura's fall worse, and who knows what other event/things could have stuck in if all of you were sick at the same time. I don't remember which session, but I think it was one fairly recently where the C's had said something along the lines of it being dangerous for everyone at the chateau to be doing EE at the same time and as a result there was one incident where Laura got sick. I imagine everyone being seriously ill could have a similar effect. I'm thankful you all are okay.

There was something potentially very helpful learned for me in this. I say 'potential' because I'm hesitant to say it's 'learned' as it's been a cycle of been in and out of for years, but I think there is something substantial. One of the initial prompts in the lesson was when Alien posted Gurdjieff's message on the line of knowledge and the line of being. It's something I've had in mind and have thought much about. However, it has been some time since I last read it and seeing it the other day presented something new for me. I've been a part of this network for some time and have gained a decent amount of knowledge through the years. However, reading and learning is not as easy as it once was. It takes me a great deal to finish a book, read an entire thread, and so on. I've wondered how long I'll be allowed to continue like this. And by 'allow' I mean nature's allowance. There does seem a definite amount of time that one is allowed to sit on the fence or there will be something that comes along and knock you off. A great distance between knowledge and being, particularly in the esoteric sense, can only carry on for so long. The thing was, I always had this separating feeling from the group. I don't remember exactly when, but seeing varying degrees of my own hypocrisy had made me feel ill equipped to offer advice at any length to members of the forum. Now I'm seeing hypocrisy in that too - if you see something in yourself, it becomes a responsibility to share it with the group through whatever means you can.

I think something that has kept me from accepting a genuine commitment to the group has also something to do with this ever present addictive idea of finding and needing to be loved by 'the one'. I've devoted energy this 'needy love' rather than this Work. I've built a number of personals profiles which allowed me to search profiles, even through I 'knew' I wouldn't find 'the one' through these services. It's amazing how many programs latch onto this false sense of love. It's the hook that gives in to flattering manipulation, even when you 'know' better. It makes you a 'savior' and a victim. It opens you up for all kinds of pitiful feelings. I'm sure it also has a lot to do with my addiction to pornography, which has always left me in shame and with another feeling that I cannot progress in the Work.

What's interesting is after reading this session, I chose to stop seeking out my elusive match. Up to that point I was pretty open to finding someone who could have even been outside this network, although I secretly wanted to find someone who would be interested in the Work. That 'openness' left me open for attack. This is, I think, where a major gap in awareness has existed for me.

I've also wondered for some time if I had spirit attachments that latched onto my addiction, and while I'm not sure, it may be related that last night I felt like I did battle all night in my dreams. There was one I remember where I was fighting this giant behemoth that didn't like to move or think. It just stood there silently while it's smaller and faster cohort tried to intimidate me. I initially didn't have much emotion towards it, but then I was able to release bursts of anger towards it. I don't remember much else other than the sense of fighting which continued throughout the night.

Today I feel like I am seeing women with slightly different eyes. There's no desire to 'have' or imagination of what life could be like with this or that woman (which I think was always present to some degree, even if there was not the conscious thought). The muddy longing to be with another is gone and I hope it stays that way. I hope I'm not misunderstood to be dogging genuine love, because I'm not. But it's impossible to be open to real love when you're stuck in it's false image.

Thanks again Laura for sharing this.

 

[Vulcan59]

Hi Los,

I am pretty sure it wasn't Alien but Ailén posted.

 

[mcb]

wow....I've atempted to post three times and each time it failed. I'll try once more

You can select all and copy to the clipboard from time to time, and especially just before posting. If the post fails, try again and paste the text back in.

...
I think there are forms of high functioning autism that are almost impossible to identify because it is not expressed in ways that autism is generally understood...

Of course. If it isn't in the textbooks it doesn't exist, or so it seems sometimes. Symptoms change over a lifetime. Some people make huge progress and the part of the condition that remains can become subtle and hard to recognize.

...
Anyways in my experiences, years and years now of careful observation, I've found where ever there is an autistic child there's an autistic parent often unrecognized as such...

I see what you are saying. I know that my mother had sensory overload issues and ever since I identified my own autistic traits I have believed that they came through her. There are other "dots" that I had not connected, though. I didn't know my mother very well. She seemed to live in her own world and didn't share very much of it. I know almost as much about her from what my father told me after her death as from what she told me directly. She had poor health and died when I was 26. She was 54. It makes a little more sense now -- thank you!

My parents' relationship was awful. My father had PTSD from his physically abusive father, and was an alcoholic. He died from it a few years after my mother. It seemed like they wore each other down until they both died. This does make more sense now, especially why I was afraid of both of them, not just my father.

...
I thought it was like everyone around them could be puking or biting their nails or walking on eggshells and they simply wouldn't notice. they'd only notice if you forgot the cream for their coffee. It's crazy making. HFA is in a class of it's own...

OK, the two people with which I have had long-term relationships would probably be nodding their heads in agreement. It can stress the other person a lot. I have been able to change a lot of things the second time around, though. There have many lessons for both of us. Had I fully understood my own issues I probably would not have tried again. We have had to readjust to a different kind of relationship.

...I'm always trying to understand more, like what the difference would be between a very highly intelligent autistic person and a psychopath? Are all psychopaths autistic? One I know is a neurological conditions but I wonder if the pathological psychopath's brain would show up as autistic?

The people I have known on the autistic spectrum (HFA or Asperger's, most of them through the Internet) have not been lacking a conscience. Weak empathy, perhaps, but not conscience. So I guess there is a resemblance to narcissism but not, in my experience anyway, psychopathy. The very term "autism" suggests a self-focus. I have been aware of this issue in my own life, however, and have been fighting it for a very long time. I don't think that that behavior is typical of narcissists. Other HFA/AS people I have known seem to be in a similar situation. Something's broken, and they often are trying to find ways to fix it. I have made huge progress in the past eight years since I began to understand what was wasn't working.

It is interesting to consider, however, that there is reported to be an autism epidemic. There could be a lot of high functioning autistic people, especially of the Asperger's variety, creating a whole lot of stress for other people. I don't know. But you have an interesting point.

 

[go2]

My Eldest son is Dyslexic although not severely. He never crawled. I remember when he was being tested for Dyslexia that it is one of the questions they asked about development. Did they crawl. Its that cross brain co-ordination I think that actual crawling requires.

Hi slowone, I doubt that cross brain coordination has any thing to do with crawling and dyslexia. Dyslexia is a genetic phenomenon of neural diversity and the progression directly to walking probably had an evolutionary advantage when scorpions, snakes, spiders, etc. were a constant concern. The dyslexic is often creative, empathic, coordinated, intelligent, with a good memory and graphic skills. Autism is a social disorder and dyslexia is a learning disability in this literate and linear age. I consider the educational system to have an educational disability, as this system is designed to eliminate neural diversity, especially empathy and social skills. Dyslexics excel in social relationships and are often found in leadership roles. Their exceptional memories likely made them the bards in past ages. They are very good at "reading people". They probably made very poor soldiers and industrial workers, hence the effort to marginalize their capacities.

Over the past couple of weeks I have been thinking about ways I could help the cause more than I do currently, with writing being my weakest link due to me having dyslexia I needed to think of something else.

Hi rolyateel, I think your graphic and cooperative talents are apparent. I have a son who heads a team of graphics programmers. He is dyslexic, also. I have heard him say that a "normal" brain cannot compete with a dyslexic brain in the fields of design and graphics engineering. I wish you well in a world which seems determined to reduce human neural and behavioral diversity for convenient social management. LOL

Autism is the opposite of dyslexia in many ways, most notably in the area of social skills. Autistic individuals often lack empathy. Dyslexics score high on empathy scales.
I have noted an unfortunate confluence of autism and dyslexia in the public mind. Child development is an area with much disinformation and agenda. Crawling is one of the areas where there is confusion. I hope this short post helps clarify some of the differences between autism and dyslexia, as neural diversity is an integral part of the human gene pool and neural evolution on this planet.

 

[Hildegarda]

Anyways in my experiences, years and years now of careful observation, I've found where ever there is an autistic child there's an autistic parent often unrecognized as such.

This is very true. They are seeing this exact thing in California in autism clusters. I have read somewhere the observation of local therapists that when a child is brought for evaluation and diagnosis, often enough one of the parents diagnoses him/herself in the process too.

I think there are forms of high functioning autism that are almost impossible to identify because it is not expressed in ways that autism is generally understood. Children with classic expressions, usually boys, are more easily identified. I'm not so sure that the ratio of male to female IS higher but that female expression is often concealed better.

It's not so much that the they are concealed, as that autism is stereotyped as male syndrome, and we don't know which signs to look for in females. There was a recent article just on that very issue on SOTT (I think this one or a related one: ///http://a.abcnews.com/Nightline/story?id=4177353&page=1. ) It correctly notes different social expectations for girls which impact child's behavior from an early age. Also, through either genetic or social influences, the girls tend to be better in verbal give-and-take, so they do better on tests. But the social demands on girls in friendships and non-verbal bonding are much more demanding, and so even a girl with mild autism will struggle a lot with those.

I recognized some things about Sue like her not remembering names, ego centric thinking, thoughtless procreation that raised red flags. Every female I've suspected was a high functioning autistic seems to lack common sense when it comes to getting pregnant and family planning. [..] telltale sign is that chaos always surrounds them....sometimes it's not easy to trace it to them.

I agree with a lot of this as well. I have three female acquaintances whom I have pegged as mildly autistic after years of observation. That seems to explain their quirks. Especially one of them is very much like what you are describing, down to very physical chaos that overwhelms her house and her life.

But there's an important feature that they all have, unlike Sue: there isn't an ounce of pretending, scheming or double-facedness about them. They can be immaturely egotistic, brusk, socially awkward or surrounded by chaos, but at least they don't play games -- what you see is what you get, which can actually be pretty liberating. If you can talk to them just as directly as they talk to you, and try either compensating or disregarding their shortcomings, you can have a very good, easy and productive relationship, as long as you stay within your comfort zone in interacting with them. Were I a man, I wouldn't be comfortable being married to any of those three girls, but other people have different tolerances for things or personal needs.

Another thing about Sue is that she is (appears to be) much more polished in both her behavior and appearance than a mildly autistic lady would be, in my experience. So while she may have autistic traits, I don't think that's her main problem.

I'm always trying to understand more, like what the difference would be between a very highly intelligent autistic person and a psychopath? Are all psychopaths autistic? One I know is a neurological conditions but I wonder if the pathological psychopath's brain would show up as autistic?

My understanding is that they autism traits and psychopathy are both linked to X-chromosome. I envision X-chromosome as a giant array of significant spots, either or any of which could be wiped out by mutation; that, combined with environmental influences, would produce that or this variation of atypical neurophysiology, which we group in syndromes, to an extent arbitrarely. My understanding also is that a highly intelligent classic autistic person, at a bottom of his/her heart, wants to connect to people in a proper way but has trouble with it, while classic psychopath has no desire to connect properly at all, and instead uses and abuses.

So autism and psychopathy are different, but at the same time a person can be both psychopathic and autistic at the same time. One can have both flees and lice, as they say. Things can also change and evolve with age, or look like they do, depending on what's happening in the body and outside. Take the recent college shooter, Dr. Amy Bishop -- judging by her looks and her life course, I am pretty certain she appeared to be a high-functioning autistic as a child and young adult, but then as an adult other traits came to the fore (schizoidia??); she suffered mental decline for years and ended up in an outburst of violence. Many things you are naming as troubling in your acquaintances are rather the psychopathic traits, and not autistic IMO.

 

[Renaissance]

Hi Los,

I am pretty sure it wasn't Alien but Ailén posted.

:O yes, thanks Vulcan, sorry Ailén :)

 

[Laura]

Brewer wrote:

Brewer, remember that it is no "trouble" for STS forces to manipulate and control each and every individual on this planet.

Thanks, that reminded me of another thought I had. The fact that not everyone has implants, as the C's said, may mean there is something about certain souls that disallows it. The C's are clear that there is hope. There wouldn't be cause for any if everyone could be controlled with time travel and implants and such, right?

Some may not get implants because they are too strong and this strength is used against them emotionally. I keep telling people that there's a "program" for everyone and if you think you are exempt, think again!

Some may not get implants because they are OPs and don't need them to be easily controlled, too.

 

[Z...]

Really cool rolyateel. Great idea. FWIW and I don't know what others might say, perhaps it should be toned down a bit as it gives the impression that we are a very sleek, well funded set up, so to speak. Might scare some people away, I don't know.

My thoughts exactly. It looks smashing but nothing like alternative news studio.
I kind of prefer blue room and Laura's cigarillo :)