foofighter
Jedi Council Member
Female,male,name,name. See Cass logo. They are a very chirpy couple.
Session 23 March 2019
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
Female,male,name,name. See Cass logo. They are a very chirpy couple.
During the session, I found these comments quite amazing:
The Life is religion quote came to mind:
And also what Laura has written about many times regarding the marriage between science and mysticism/religion. I can't speak for the whole group, but realized that up until this past year, that had remained a theory for me. Having grown up in a 1/2 catholic, 1/2 atheist family, early on I had already made my own "sauce" of both, just to be able to make them coexist. But it was always vague. How do you really combine them, and at the same time have faith and "belief"?
I realized that with this most recent research, we can bypass a) the religious stupidity that says "Never question God and believe blindly, and obey", and b) the science stupidity that unless you see something, and it is material, nothing else exists.
It's like feeling religious in a different way. If we can see and marvel at the microscopic manifestations of "God" in this reality, and nothing but an "intelligent design" explains them, then "God" exists, and you can be sure of it. You can question him, study him, even if it has to be within the many limitations we have in this reality and at our level of being. Even being okay with not knowing everything. But it brings the certainly that "God is in the air". In the same token, science is essential, because it allows for bservation, for "paying attention right and left".
I don't know about others, but I can say for myself that many times I felt sad at the idea of not having any "beliefs" (not false beliefs, but a belief in something objective even). Even faith was kind of hard to maintain, sometimes. That brought despair, as in "what's the point?" Why try and do anything? While this is different. There is a lot of good in this world, and in spite of all the tweaking and going back in time and so forth, 4D STS doesn't seem to be able to create anything. The Cs have mentioned several times wishful thinking on the STS side, and how that could lead to a bad surprise for them. Well, I think I see it better now. There is still a capacity for growth, for evolving consciousness, for doing good as we align ourselves with what we SEE is right (not what we want to believe is right). There is some free will in our choices.
And the huge efforts required in even getting rid of one bit of bad programming, one false belief or one thinking error are the more worth it when we think that that may be part of our "design", part of what we are here to learn. For each of those efforts, if our changing makes one person's life better, if we help at least one other being, then we are contributing something. We will not "save the world", and that was never our function, but we may be learning to know, which is learning to love, and thus create. "God" (The Cosmic Mind) is within us (as above so below), spread in all consciousness in existence, and as you grow and choose an alignment, you get "closer to God/The Cosmic Mind", in a sense. That to me makes the idea of being a "conduit for the Universe" a bit more concrete.
So, interestingly, to go back to Paul's saying, science can bring forth religion, and vicecersa: the more we get to know about God in things that CAN be seen, the more we develop faith in things not seen. And the more we keep that faith alive, the more curiosity we have, and the more we want to learn about things that can be seen. With that I feel comes a lot of gratitude, and suffering takes on a bigger meaning.
Anyway, just some thoughts even if I didn't manage to formulate them so well, for what they are worth.
The Life is religion quote came to mind:
And also what Laura has written about many times regarding the marriage between science and mysticism/religion. I can't speak for the whole group, but realized that up until this past year, that had remained a theory for me. Having grown up in a 1/2 catholic, 1/2 atheist family, early on I had already made my own "sauce" of both, just to be able to make them coexist. But it was always vague. How do you really combine them, and at the same time have faith and "belief"?
I realized that with this most recent research, we can bypass a) the religious stupidity that says "Never question God and believe blindly, and obey", and b) the science stupidity that unless you see something, and it is material, nothing else exists.
It's like feeling religious in a different way. If we can see and marvel at the microscopic manifestations of "God" in this reality, and nothing but an "intelligent design" explains them, then "God" exists, and you can be sure of it. You can question him, study him, even if it has to be within the many limitations we have in this reality and at our level of being. Even being okay with not knowing everything. But it brings the certainly that "God is in the air". In the same token, science is essential, because it allows for bservation, for "paying attention right and left".
I don't know about others, but I can say for myself that many times I felt sad at the idea of not having any "beliefs" (not false beliefs, but a belief in something objective even). Even faith was kind of hard to maintain, sometimes. That brought despair, as in "what's the point?" Why try and do anything? While this is different. There is a lot of good in this world, and in spite of all the tweaking and going back in time and so forth, 4D STS doesn't seem to be able to create anything. The Cs have mentioned several times wishful thinking on the STS side, and how that could lead to a bad surprise for them. Well, I think I see it better now. There is still a capacity for growth, for evolving consciousness, for doing good as we align ourselves with what we SEE is right (not what we want to believe is right). There is some free will in our choices.
And the huge efforts required in even getting rid of one bit of bad programming, one false belief or one thinking error are the more worth it when we think that that may be part of our "design", part of what we are here to learn. For each of those efforts, if our changing makes one person's life better, if we help at least one other being, then we are contributing something. We will not "save the world", and that was never our function, but we may be learning to know, which is learning to love, and thus create. "God" (The Cosmic Mind) is within us (as above so below), spread in all consciousness in existence, and as you grow and choose an alignment, you get "closer to God/The Cosmic Mind", in a sense. That to me makes the idea of being a "conduit for the Universe" a bit more concrete.
So, interestingly, to go back to Paul's saying, science can bring forth religion, and vicecersa: the more we get to know about God in things that CAN be seen, the more we develop faith in things not seen. And the more we keep that faith alive, the more curiosity we have, and the more we want to learn about things that can be seen. With that I feel comes a lot of gratitude, and suffering takes on a bigger meaning.
Anyway, just some thoughts even if I didn't manage to formulate them so well, for what they are worth.
SevenFeathers
Dagobah Resident
I have always loved watching the flow and change directions in sync! Gives me an uplifting feeling.
Great parting line.
Thanks Laura and crew, for all you do.
Wow!!! That was a great session. Thank you. I will have to read it a couple of times more.
After reading Behe and Stove and Stafford Betty and most of the recommended books, there was always this sentence in my mind : "this life is so complex (= irreducible complexity) . And now with this session there comes another one: "You are an experiment and this is one great school" Thanks again
After reading Behe and Stove and Stafford Betty and most of the recommended books, there was always this sentence in my mind : "this life is so complex (= irreducible complexity) . And now with this session there comes another one: "You are an experiment and this is one great school" Thanks again
Thanks so much for the fascinating session!
I definitely share that feeling. It's one thing to have a vague feeling that things are different than we're being told, but truly knowing it is so empowering. It's both liberating in the sense that we "reclaim our sanity and common sense" AND in the sense that it provides great confidence to look at the world from a certain angle. And then, suddenly, things start falling into place. Plus, all of this gives a powerful motivation to "set the record straight" - to go do something about it, to "debug the universe" so to speak. I for one feel a lot of drive lately to do just that, having realized how off the rails so many opinions about crucial matters have gone.
I found the recent forays into Darwinism particularly liberating, BOTH the biological angle and the philosophical angle (such as Stove's work). The Afterlife thread also comes to mind. It's as if by absorbing these things, the "weight" of our knowledge increases and we gain something solid to stand on, sort of like a secure base from which to operate. One crucial ingredient IMO is the by now absolute certainty that the materialist dogma is as wrong as it gets, no matter from which angle you look at it - scientific, philosophical etc.
I've thought about this lately and I think that while it's refreshing and important to have mainstream-religious people finally stand up for themselves against the materialist/postmodernist bullies, they still suffer from a very constrained and dogmatic tradition, such as dualistic thinking (spirit vs. matter), non-critical attitude towards the bible, a childish concept of God and so on. To be sure, this isn't true for everyone and there is some truly great stuff in Christian theology, but there also seems to be a heavy shadow of some very ingrained dogmas that can blind even the most intelligent among the religious folks. I mean, as useless as the New Atheists are as philosophers, their quips against religion, jokes about the bible etc. are highly effective and convincing to many people - and there's a reason for this!
I definitely share that feeling. It's one thing to have a vague feeling that things are different than we're being told, but truly knowing it is so empowering. It's both liberating in the sense that we "reclaim our sanity and common sense" AND in the sense that it provides great confidence to look at the world from a certain angle. And then, suddenly, things start falling into place. Plus, all of this gives a powerful motivation to "set the record straight" - to go do something about it, to "debug the universe" so to speak. I for one feel a lot of drive lately to do just that, having realized how off the rails so many opinions about crucial matters have gone.
I found the recent forays into Darwinism particularly liberating, BOTH the biological angle and the philosophical angle (such as Stove's work). The Afterlife thread also comes to mind. It's as if by absorbing these things, the "weight" of our knowledge increases and we gain something solid to stand on, sort of like a secure base from which to operate. One crucial ingredient IMO is the by now absolute certainty that the materialist dogma is as wrong as it gets, no matter from which angle you look at it - scientific, philosophical etc.
I've thought about this lately and I think that while it's refreshing and important to have mainstream-religious people finally stand up for themselves against the materialist/postmodernist bullies, they still suffer from a very constrained and dogmatic tradition, such as dualistic thinking (spirit vs. matter), non-critical attitude towards the bible, a childish concept of God and so on. To be sure, this isn't true for everyone and there is some truly great stuff in Christian theology, but there also seems to be a heavy shadow of some very ingrained dogmas that can blind even the most intelligent among the religious folks. I mean, as useless as the New Atheists are as philosophers, their quips against religion, jokes about the bible etc. are highly effective and convincing to many people - and there's a reason for this!
Interesting point. Also, the deterioration of DNA as explained in 'Genetic Enthropy' is consistent with the fact that the fossil record shows no continuity between species, but 'jumps' from a species to another, and events like the Cambric explosion, and the Cs explanation above about there being no evolution as commonly understood. I can picture the designers creating a new species in the full knowledge that its DNA will last for only an X number of generations, but then that's ok, cause once the species 'expires', they know they'll either have to upgrade it, fix it, or replace it with another. This is kind of what Sanford suggests in the book, in the sense that there has to be some sort of intervention to stop genetic enthropy, except he simply says "Jesus".
If that's how it works, then based on the estimates of that book about the rate of negative mutations in the human DNA (X number per generation), we can know how many generations the human race has got left to go max - and in fact I believe Sanford does mention such a figure, but I'd need to look that up. In other words, we could know how many generations to go before we get replaced as a species!
mrtn
Dagobah Resident
Thank you very much for the session!
I think to survive, to prosper, to multiply might be a main objective but not the only one. Creatures might be successful in some way but are finally not meant to live on earth but elsewhere instead and so removed from earth. Or they are not even meant to prosper but just to develop or test certain traits or parts used for other developments. Maybe some just successfully prosper and multiply after being of no interest anymore in their original purpose to the designers and just left on their own. And if someone formats their harddrive (our earth) it is not because all the data is useless but he will have a backup of a the valuable work. And the petri dish goes to the dishwasher finally no matter if the experiment was successfull or not. There might also be 'amateurs' - maybe they are new to 4D - fiddling with all the possibilities without a clear plan. Like babies stacking toy blocks naturally and intuitively just to see what happens and how it feels. There are lots of possibilites.
Maybe they always try to create a nice 'deal' with their creations, that is interesting and comfortable enough to attract higher consciousness to slip in but wicked enough get them caught and keep them controllable. During the creation cycles they might unintentionally train that consciousnes along the way and loose grip on it, including the hardware. Sounds good, but the Cs also said that computers etc. (our creations) will overpower us. Same thing, just doesn't sound so good.
A most interesting session! It will take a few reads through to grasp it all - it is literally a banquet of knowledge! I'm part way through reading Darwin's Black Box, and it surely is an eye opener, a real game changer. Like everyone else, I feel a fundamental shift has occurred, there is something much more solid about the recent knowledge. We know in a different, deeper fashion and it is indeed liberating.
My heart lifted upon reading the last line about the new world dawning, oh how my heart longs for this change!
My heart lifted upon reading the last line about the new world dawning, oh how my heart longs for this change!
And that's why STS needs STO - STS can't create. I think that would be why STS would also possibly like negative emotions, and why STS keeps ramping up the constrictive, oppressive pressure - sooner or later STO is going to wake up and want to try new things to get out of that loop. So if everything is always fun and fine and dandy, there's no pressure to be creative, to keep asking questions to find new solutions and if you're not doing that you're probably not increasing consciousness. So maybe STS can't get there without STO. STS makes life miserable because that's all it can do.
I think that kind of comparison is something that most people probably don't think much about, and we really should.
For me, I have always been insatiably curious about how everything works. One of my favorite books of all time is The Way Things Work:
I can remember when I was about 13, I would sit in my parents' living room, put on the old-but-good headphones connected to my dad's fancy 1970's (!!) stereo, and listen to music while reading that book - cover to cover. Several times.
How does a microwave oven work? How does a nuclear reactor work? What makes computers go?
Eventually, I became a real honest-to-god engineer. As time went on, there were two things I noticed:
First, most people around me were satisfied with what they learned. They got so far, and then stopped asking questions. The goal wasn't knowledge, it was a degree or a job or a life or whatever.
Second, most people around me never compared and contrasted their new knowledge of, say, how a CPU works with how their own brain works. It's this second one that blew my mind the most.
Today we have fancy robots. If I stab that robot in the leg, I might rupture some hydraulic tube or wire or something, and that's it: it's broken. If I scratch a car or cut the battery cable, that's it.
If I do the same things to myself (ouch), I will also bust something. Yet, instantly, literally millions and millions of teeny-tiny microscopic machines kick into gear to preserve function and repair damage. And none of it is simple. You've got red blood cells and white blood cells and proteins and nerve signals, a natural instinct to protect the damaged component, and even modified behaviors to promote healing - all without thinking about ANY of it.
What's more, our bodies are so incredible that if you alter their fuel and simply use them more, they become better. If I use a muscle a lot, it grows! When's the last time you drove a car that got faster and more fuel efficient the more you drove it?! This was the thought that drove me to stick with running when I was in high school.
So, I think our physical vehicles are hands down the fanciest and most "high-tech" gizmo we will ever own in this life - and yet most people care more for their fancy car than they do for their own iHuman! It's nuts.
Anyway, I realized that our bodies are such absolute marvels of engineering that I am simply not capable of creating anything even CLOSE to that level of complexity - nor am I likely to be capable in this lifetime. That's a humbling thought.
And yet, reading these "anti-evolution" books has still been a real eye-opener because there are SO MANY incredibly simple points, arguments, and bits of data that I just never thought of!!
Well, personally, I can't wait to get to 4D. I think my first design will be a pink and fluorescent yellow Unicornosaurus Rex...
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