Session 24 October 2009

[mkrnhr]

I find this to be interesting. Are you doing the EE program?

Yes I do. I thought also about this possibility. Even if reaction to banana did not appear immediately, the reaction to corn (or maybe genetically modified ones??) started immediately after starting the EE program in july. My tastes are changing drastically and I think my body is telling me what it doesn't need (i'm also taking magenesium supplement so I don't know if it contributes).

IMO looking for pesticides seems to be important as well, if I cannot go for all organic stuff.

I agree. Banana is mass-produced since a long time and the use of pesticides is very probable.

The ultimate solution to get healthy will be to the grow its own food in the near future, I don't see other solutions.

 

[Nienna]

I find this to be interesting. Are you doing the EE program?

Yes I do. I thought also about this possibility. Even if reaction to banana did not appear immediately, the reaction to corn (or maybe genetically modified ones??) started immediately after starting the EE program in july. My tastes are changing drastically and I think my body is telling me what it doesn't need (i'm also taking magenesium supplement so I don't know if it contributes).

It seems to me that this is what is happening to you. Your body is telling you what it does and does not like/need! Wow! The EE program is awesome, isn't it?

It is good that you are taking magnesium and I think that all of these things work together. Since Magnesium detoxifies the body of a lot of horrible stuff, it may be cleaning out things that have been bad for you and your body is now being able to tell what is bad and what is good for it. This is just a hypothesis, though.

As has been mentioned, going on the Ultra Simple Diet and eating very simply for a week and then reintroducing foods to your diet will really help your body to tell what is good and what is bad for it for each individual. It's pretty amazing really.

fwiw

 

[Approaching Infinity]

After doing the detox program for almost a year I started having bananas in my breakfast shake every morning. (I'd only had them infrequently before). After then doing the ultrasimple diet for a few weeks I noticed I still had cracks in the corners of my lips. I eliminated bananas and almonds, then tested both of them and realized they both cause the reaction. My lips had been bothering me for some time, so I was relieved to find the solution. But unfortunately that means saying goodbye to two favorite foods! Sometimes you may be allergic to a food and not even know it. And often, it's a food you really enjoy!

 

[Nienna]

After doing the detox program for almost a year I started having bananas in my breakfast shake every morning. (I'd only had them infrequently before). After then doing the ultrasimple diet for a few weeks I noticed I still had cracks in the corners of my lips. I eliminated bananas and almonds, then tested both of them and realized they both cause the reaction. My lips had been bothering me for some time, so I was relieved to find the solution. But unfortunately that means saying goodbye to two favorite foods! Sometimes you may be allergic to a food and not even know it. And often, it's a food you really enjoy!

Yep! It really is very important to do the Ultra Simple diet and then find out what foods you are sensitive to. Everybody's different and everybody reacts different ly to different things. That being said, it is very interesting to find out how many people are all sensitive to the same things, such as wheat, dairy, eggs and nuts.

I also found out that I cannot eat cabbage. After having it for lunch for a few days and having a very bad headache those same days, I really thought that I had put my neck out or something. But strangely enough, when I didn't have the cabbage the following day, I also didn't have a headache.

Glad to hear that you figured out what was going on with your lips, AI. Cracked lips are nasty things to have to suffer with.

 

[anart]

But unfortunately that means saying goodbye to two favorite foods! Sometimes you may be allergic to a food and not even know it. And often, it's a food you really enjoy!

That was exactly the case with me and dairy - I loved dairy! Turns out, we aren't supposed to love food, it's for nourishment - and my 'love' of cheese, ice cream, yogurt, cheese, did I mention cheese? was a big indicator that I was allergic. Lo and behold - over two years later, I still miss pizza and queso - but my joints don't hurt anymore!

Bananas are a 'no-no' for me as well.

 

[Helle]

Turns out, we aren't supposed to love food, it's for nourishment

I don't agree!

We just have to get better at 'feeling' what we need to eat to stay healthy, and love and respect ourselves enough to treat us good!

I can't see how the real you can 'love' something, that's not good for you. I'd think that it was something else in you, that loves/craves dairy still.
That's at least what I'm trying to convince myself about, when I crave chocolate / cake / processed foods etc.

 

[pete02]

After then doing the ultrasimple diet for a few weeks I noticed I still had cracks in the corners of my lips. I eliminated bananas and almonds, then tested both of them and realized they both cause the reaction.

My brother has this same trouble and has fruit with his breakfast, I will mention this to him.

I'm not quite sure I'm ready for the ultrasimple diet yet (although I do have the book and think I will soon) but I started small by just eliminating the sweets in my life. I used to dump sugar in my coffee every morning and now I have guayaki antioxidant tea (green tea) with no sugar at all. I also used to have bedtime snacks loaded with sugar every nite and now I have sunflower or pumpkin seeds, maybe a rice cake or two and nite nite. Funny thing is, I don't miss any of it.

I've been doing this for about four months or so and I've noticed a great improvement in my overall health but for the past few weeks now I've been fighting a small rash on my face that is quite annoying to say the least. So I am also in the middle of trying to eliminate certain things from my diet to try and figure out whats causing it. I've even tried taking in small amounts of sugar again to see if that helps but nothing yet. I honestly never thought it would be this tricky to find the right foods for me but I'm working on it!

 

[Aiming]

Turns out, we aren't supposed to love food, it's for nourishment

I don't agree!

We just have to get better at 'feeling' what we need to eat to stay healthy, and love and respect ourselves enough to treat us good!

I can't see how the real you can 'love' something, that's not good for you. I'd think that it was something else in you, that loves/craves dairy still.
That's at least what I'm trying to convince myself about, when I crave chocolate / cake / processed foods etc.

I have observed something interesting over the years. Since a child I've always been eating different from the people around me.
For example, I suddenly started to refuse eating meat when I was ca. four years old (was mainly living on bread and fruit),
and although my stepfather wanted to force me to eat it (and other stuff) and make me sit in front of my plate for hours, I was more stubborn than him and refused - every time. :D

There was a time when I would eat all the stuff I knew from observation it was bad for me, like pizza, pasta, cheese, bread, sweets. When I stopped eating that stuff,
although before I had had cravings for it, after a time the cravings would vanish entirely and I even felt a repulsion towards these foods and couldn't understand
why people would find them delicious. I mean, just looking at these foods tells you how artificial they are.

So I had observed that eliminating certain foods from my diet would after a time kind of wake up the body's natural instinct of what is good for it and what bad.
And when I found out about the blood type diet I was very amazed to find that the foods listed there to be avoided for my blood type (AB) matched my own
observations! (that all happening before I had found the forum)
And I also think that this loving of certain food is no real love ;) , it's a subjective love and the objective love comes out when eliminating the subjective, know what I mean? :)
So, when the body's natural instinct is awake, you can see what real love of food means, which is the very food that's doing your body immense good, that is,
giving it the correct kind of fuel. Which means that the real love of food is loving the foods that do you good, because you're in balance with your entire system. Amen. Lol.

Doesn't however mean I've been following my "dietary insights" constantly. Me too, I am a sinner.
But at least I'm totally off from gluten. The coffee with organic milk is having me again. :( And the fight goes on! :P

 

[Psalehesost]

Turns out, we aren't supposed to love food, it's for nourishment

I don't agree!

We just have to get better at 'feeling' what we need to eat to stay healthy, and love and respect ourselves enough to treat us good!

I can't see how the real you can 'love' something, that's not good for you. I'd think that it was something else in you, that loves/craves dairy still.
That's at least what I'm trying to convince myself about, when I crave chocolate / cake / processed foods etc.

[...]
And I also think that this loving of certain food is no real love ;) , it's a subjective love and the objective love comes out when eliminating the subjective, know what I mean? :)
So, when the body's natural instinct is awake, you can see what real love of food means, which is the very food that's doing your body immense good, that is,
giving it the correct kind of fuel. Which means that the real love of food is loving the foods that do you good, because you're in balance with your entire system.
[...]

This will first venture a bit off-topic regarding the subject at large:

The idea of "loving" food has actually been on my mind before - as an example of the ludicrousness of STS-"love" (wherein, as a rough definition, any positively experienced fixation on objects is "love") - it is a quite strange concept to have, that of "loving" your food. You are consuming other life, and then you "love" it! (what kind of "love" is that?) It's such a silly contradiction (imagine: "Oh, I love you - that's why I'm eating you!") that I'm on the verge of finding it funny, though above that I find it grotesque.

I also think it keeps language (and thought) muddy to use the word "love" for variously describing liking, enjoyment or attachment, as they are different from it (and to a lesser degree from each other) - it is funny how this is particularly common regarding food. While it's not possible to change how words are used (apart from how we use them), for the sake of mental clarity, I think it's good to keep in mind.

Keeping in mind - more narrowly defined - what I think anart meant in what Helle quoted, it could perhaps be rephrased as:
"Turns out, we aren't supposed to be attached to food, it's for nourishment"

And that makes perfect sense. We could enjoy food without being attached to it (which would imply either some sort of addiction or identification, to my understanding), and we could, as Helle said, 'feel' what we need to be healthy - but this need not imply "craving" in the sense of some strong, mechanical urge that drives us to mindlessly eat something. It could be as simple as finding that this or that food is agreeable - that it would be "good" to have right now; and on the contrary, that this or that food is not a good idea to have. It would be a question of having or not having appetite for different foods (something more "passive", a source of input) rather than craving or not craving them (something that actively drives you).


What I find now is that I no longer care as much about how "tasty" food is. Beyond that, I no longer care for many things I used to eat or drink. Among the things I now eat, what I feel like having varies in time. There are also several layers of "feeling like" having things. Some food might initially seem a good idea, but then I feel deeper down and find myself indifferent to it - or even distinctly not wanting it. The reverse is also true.

In these cases, the surface judgment seems to be connected with the false personality and its "tastes" - having this or that can become a mechanical habit. For months, when available I sometimes felt like putting a piece of chocolate or some other candy in my mouth - and then I felt deeper down, and the urge just disappeared. It seems like it was the idea of eating it that initially drove me, that this idea (along with anticipation of taste) had become part of the personality.

 

[Aiming]

The idea of "loving" food has actually been on my mind before - as an example of the ludicrousness of STS-"love" (wherein, as a rough definition, any positively experienced fixation on objects is "love") - it is a quite strange concept to have, that of "loving" your food. You are consuming other life, and then you "love" it! (what kind of "love" is that?) It's such a silly contradiction (imagine: "Oh, I love you - that's why I'm eating you!") that I'm on the verge of finding it funny, though above that I find it grotesque.
...

Keeping in mind - more narrowly defined - what I think anart meant in what Helle quoted, it could perhaps be rephrased as:
"Turns out, we aren't supposed to be attached to food, it's for nourishment"

I agree with you, Csayeurost. When using the word "love" for it, I was aware that it didn't really fit, considering the context of attachment, but used it as some kind of figure of speech.
What I intended to convey was that in the process of eliminating harmful food from our diet, the body's instinct for useful food (=fuel) awakes. The entire physical system (and thus emotional and psychological)
begins restoring its healthy balance. When then eating the useful food it is, let me call it pleasant, because of the positive effects on one's entire system. It's like you know this food is useful for you,
and you observe the positive effects and thus you're enjoying it. Hope I'm making sense. It's just that I feel really good when eating good - while 'good' meant as in the context of being healthy and useful for my body.

But then, the "feeling" towards food does change indeed. The amount of relishing it, craving it is extremely diminished. I sometimes miss this enjoyment of food, that is some part of me. But this relishing of food is the very STS attachment of feeding, its existence circling around feeding itself. Live to eat or eat to live?
With living on vegetables, seeds and fish there's simply no craving towards these foods. You eat it, thereby give your body what it needs, and then the topic of eating is done with. Ideally, at least. I do have frequent cravings for dried figs and dates; but that's the candida for sure. It's however the only kind of sweets I've been allowing myself to eat for a long time.

 

[Gawan]

This will first venture a bit off-topic regarding the subject at large:

The idea of "loving" food has actually been on my mind before - as an example of the ludicrousness of STS-"love" (wherein, as a rough definition, any positively experienced fixation on objects is "love") - it is a quite strange concept to have, that of "loving" your food. You are consuming other life, and then you "love" it! (what kind of "love" is that?) It's such a silly contradiction (imagine: "Oh, I love you - that's why I'm eating you!") that I'm on the verge of finding it funny, though above that I find it grotesque.

I also think it keeps language (and thought) muddy to use the word "love" for variously describing liking, enjoyment or attachment, as they are different from it (and to a lesser degree from each other) - it is funny how this is particularly common regarding food. While it's not possible to change how words are used (apart from how we use them), for the sake of mental clarity, I think it's good to keep in mind.

Keeping in mind - more narrowly defined - what I think anart meant in what Helle quoted, it could perhaps be rephrased as:
"Turns out, we aren't supposed to be attached to food, it's for nourishment"

And that makes perfect sense. We could enjoy food without being attached to it (which would imply either some sort of addiction or identification, to my understanding), and we could, as Helle said, 'feel' what we need to be healthy - but this need not imply "craving" in the sense of some strong, mechanical urge that drives us to mindlessly eat something. It could be as simple as finding that this or that food is agreeable - that it would be "good" to have right now; and on the contrary, that this or that food is not a good idea to have. It would be a question of having or not having appetite for different foods (something more "passive", a source of input) rather than craving or not craving them (something that actively drives you).


What I find now is that I no longer care as much about how "tasty" food is. Beyond that, I no longer care for many things I used to eat or drink. Among the things I now eat, what I feel like having varies in time. There are also several layers of "feeling like" having things. Some food might initially seem a good idea, but then I feel deeper down and find myself indifferent to it - or even distinctly not wanting it. The reverse is also true.

In these cases, the surface judgment seems to be connected with the false personality and its "tastes" - having this or that can become a mechanical habit. For months, when available I sometimes felt like putting a piece of chocolate or some other candy in my mouth - and then I felt deeper down, and the urge just disappeared. It seems like it was the idea of eating it that initially drove me, that this idea (along with anticipation of taste) had become part of the personality.

It's a difficult and long way to find out what is or is not good for the body, because many of us are grown up with food additives and the evil stuff.

In the last weeks a sentence went through my head: "It tastes good, but does no good" (or something along that line) and this remembered me all the time, how subjective our feelings are, how our bodies get simply deceived by food.
And sugar is a great case in point, in deceiving our body-information-system-. For example I ate peanut-butter (added with additional sugar) and I ate more and more, because it tasted so good. Withoud the addition of sugar, I would have eaten much less, maybe 2 rice waffels instead of 5.

 

[StrangeCaptain]

I can't say I have a sense of what is truly good for me. Mainly I try to follow the guidelines that have been discovered by the people on this forum to greater or lesser degrees. I can say that there is a certain sense of satisfaction each time I make a meal that I reasonably sure is a favor to my body rather than harmful.

 

[Renaissance]

I can't see how the real you can 'love' something, that's not good for you. I'd think that it was something else in you, that loves/craves dairy still.
That's at least what I'm trying to convince myself about, when I crave chocolate / cake / processed foods etc.

[...]
And I also think that this loving of certain food is no real love ;) , it's a subjective love and the objective love comes out when eliminating the subjective, know what I mean? :)
So, when the body's natural instinct is awake, you can see what real love of food means, which is the very food that's doing your body immense good, that is,
giving it the correct kind of fuel. Which means that the real love of food is loving the foods that do you good, because you're in balance with your entire system.
[...]

(...) We could enjoy food without being attached to it (which would imply either some sort of addiction or identification, to my understanding), and we could, as Helle said, 'feel' what we need to be healthy - but this need not imply "craving" in the sense of some strong, mechanical urge that drives us to mindlessly eat something. It could be as simple as finding that this or that food is agreeable - that it would be "good" to have right now; and on the contrary, that this or that food is not a good idea to have. It would be a question of having or not having appetite for different foods (something more "passive", a source of input) rather than craving or not craving them (something that actively drives you).

I think this is an interesting cross section of diet and Work. The false aspects of our personality connect with the parasites and bacterias in our body. They feed each other by maintaining the the cycles of addiction, negative emotion, and general dysfunction. ...Seems like some advanced technology!!

 

[anart]

Turns out, we aren't supposed to love food, it's for nourishment

I don't agree!

We just have to get better at 'feeling' what we need to eat to stay healthy, and love and respect ourselves enough to treat us good!

I can't see how the real you can 'love' something, that's not good for you. I'd think that it was something else in you, that loves/craves dairy still.
That's at least what I'm trying to convince myself about, when I crave chocolate / cake / processed foods etc.

I think you may have misunderstood my use of the word 'love' here.

Keeping in mind - more narrowly defined - what I think anart meant in what Helle quoted, it could perhaps be rephrased as:
"Turns out, we aren't supposed to be attached to food, it's for nourishment"

This hits closer to the mark. The fact of the matter is that I was addicted to dairy - because I was allergic to it. In that state, my body/mind absolutely told me dairy was the best thing ever for me and I should have it at every meal since I had for decades and was addicted - even though I was allergic and it was slowly making me very sick.

It's a nice idea to think that our body wouldn't 'love' something that isn't good for us, but until one is detoxed, it absolutley does (and when you add in things like parasites and candida - then, oh, yeah, your body tells you it loves/wants things that are really bad for you because it feeds the candida/parasites).

I'm not sure about your equation of 'Real you' and 'body' here, since I think that's a complicated topic. Our Real selves inhabit bodies, they are not our bodies, so I think there is a lot of room to blur a lot of issues there when you say, "I can't see how the real you can 'love' something, that's not good for you".

All in all - in my case - I 'loved' dairy - was attached to it - addicted to it - and it was making me very, very ill over a very long period of time.

That's what I meant by 'food is not to be loved, it is for nourishment' - now, since I've been cleaning out my system with better food, FIR saunas and supplements, my body responds very differently to good food - my body seems to 'love' good food, though I am not attached to it - it's more of a result of eating the good food rather than a precursor or driver (craving) to eat the bad food.

So, yes, in that sense you could say my body 'loves' the good food, but I do not (not in the same way I 'loved' dairy). Hopefully that's not confused the issue more! :)

 

[3DStudent]

The issue of food has been one for me too recently. Even though I've been following the diet and detoxing recently, I'm not sure I know what foods are good for me as y'all are describing. I tend to overeat too, very mechanically so and when I'm not doing what I want to do. It's like I try to fill the void of my laziness or inactivity. I'm aware that it is very STS, consuming more than is needed, and just wasteful. This quote is relevant here:

..."craving" in the sense of some strong, mechanical urge that drives us to mindlessly eat something.

I don't think I "love" food. But I've come to dislike being full. I tend to overeat when I'm vulnerable, like I said before if I'm not doing what I set out to do. Also if I haven't eaten in a while and am very hungry. I did this yesterday. All I had was my morning detox shake and I was out car shopping all day. Then we stopped at a wholesale store and I got some bulk nuts that I munched on during the way home. But this then carried on into the night and I continued eating to "make up" for the not eating and hunger.

But this relishing of food is the very STS attachment of feeding, its existence circling around feeding itself. Live to eat or eat to live?
With living on vegetables, seeds and fish there's simply no craving towards these foods.

Yeah this is a vicious cycle I hope to get out of soon. Sometimes I just don't want to think about food and start to abhor it. But we always come to that point where we get hungry and have to eat something. So I guess you just have to tame that beast that always returns. And about the veggies, seeds, and fish: yeah, I agree there is little flavor in these, so it's harder to overeat these foods. I find that when I put too much salt or spices on them, then I'll eat more than I should. I almost just want to eat totally bland or tolerably nasty foods, stuff that will just do it's job. This would make it not a big deal and it would be like routine maintenance, which is what I think eating food is. Just eat a little and it's over, it almost seems burdensome. OSIT