Session 24 October 2009

[RedFox]

So I understand that it's illegal to join FOTCM if being already a follower of another religion. And sadly I'm still too young and too dependent upon my family to say them that I change my faith. It would certainly throw a lot of suffering and make me feel totally uncomfortable with my parents as well as ashamed of me. Including my environment. I'm afraid that this type of commitment is currently out of my range.. if there isn't any other way.
The idea is exciting, tough...

So it seems. That does not mean however that you cannot spend your time reading/studying, researching and practicing the Work, and following the E-E program in preparation for when you are old enough to be able to switch, if you so choose. Practicing all the above will mean you are still on the same path as everyone else.
Also if you know that switching would cause problems for you/your family, it may be good to remind yourself of Strategic Enclosures and External Considering :) fwiw

 

[Nienna]

This truly is exciting news!

Keeping an open mind and not anticipating results really works miracles.

Thanks, Laura and team, for another illuminating session.

 

[bjorb]

Using the freedom of religion act, really clever.

Now it's really going somewhere. Just awesome. As for the fellowship, count me in.

Thanks for all the effort.

 

[PopHistorian]

Great, great stuff -- thanks so much!

 

[sitta]

Another great session. Thank you Laura and the Team.

The Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind is trully wonderfull idea.
It's very important that it will (among other things) offer some kind of protection for members - especially those in USA, then as needed in other countries.
One step at a time. From people that need it at most to those that need it less (for now at least).

You created the structure for the protection of those in the USA first where it is most needed. Proceed with the steps as you go along.

In my country, which is ex-socialist one, law is law and it is equal for everyone. No church or religion brings you relieve from any law. Everything is the same for everyone. Even jehovah’s witnesses must receive blood or they don’t go to the hospital. Religion is nice and anyone can believe in what chose too, but anyone also must obey the state and the law. In example, if vaccination is a rule, than all people and religions must be vaccinated.

In short, here is like this: any religion is fine, and you have any right to think and believe anything you want, but if something is the law, that means nothing. Any institution (be it even a church) doesn’t save you from institution of law, state and government.

Yes it's the same for me too although I don't know if there are any lows in EU that regulate religion for all it's members

I have had so many days of ups and downs with the breathing and meditation lately - and more than a few days slogging through the Swamp...this helps so much. Just knowing that so many great things are happening at levels I don't even know is so heartening!! ;)

I am so elated and feel so fortunate to be part of this. Thank you so very much for all you are doing!

Well for me it's almost 6 weeks of fighting with myself to do the full program and participating in the forum. It's far easier with meditation.
I know that I just can't give up and I hope it's a phase that will end if I will keep on going.

 

[Gawan]

Regarding religions people already belong to and that they would need to resign from, does it also include the fact of being baptized at birth and having followed catechism during childhood, even if now you don't practice Catholicism anymore? I suppose not, but asking just in case…

I'm not entirely sure how the situation in your country is (exactly the laws), but to get baptized (for example it often happens when you are a child) here in Germany means to get registered and an entry in the local church book.
And heck, to get out of the church they want 20€, oh my god. :) (and that's a lower fee, among others)

Thanks for the new session Laura et al that was fantastic!! I'm so excited by all this!!
I don't think you need worry about not having done it sooner as fwiw it feels like just the right time for this.

Thanks Lúthien for clearing that up. It does make sense. Does this mean then that QFS is accepting new applicants now along with the newly created FOTCM? I'd be interested in joining both, but I don't know if I'm qualified for QFS.

Thanks again!

I asked Laura about joining the QFS at the beginning of the month, this is what she said about the requirements.

Hi,

The basic requirements are having read The Wave and Adventures and active participation on the forum for at least 3 months (I believe). When you are ready, send a PM to one of the moderators (or me) and you'll get an application.

L

Hope that helps

Thanks for the questions Dant and Ryan X and also for the answers from Bohort, Luthien and Redfox.
Okay so I still need to read 2 books, that's a plan. The second adventure book is already since months waiting to begin with.

 

[Voyageur]

This is a very special realization for QFG which will bring comfort and renewed vigour of being; the effect herein is evident amongst the posts with joy of heart and purpose.

Been escaping the idea of churches and now want to legally join – life is strange indeed, one just never knows where things can take you.

Much respect to all!!!

 

[dantem]

Regarding religions people already belong to and that they would need to resign from, does it also include the fact of being baptized at birth and having followed catechism during childhood, even if now you don't practice Catholicism anymore? I suppose not, but asking just in case…

Perhaps the best way to know that would be to ask to your local Jehovah's witness... anyone in the EU have any acquaintance or neighbor who's into it?

For what I know generally things are like 'the religion you practice is the religion you're into', but at this point the main thing is to just grow in terms of numbers, and any legal paperworks will come after, is that it?

Great session, 'Olimpia' ;) Launching a New World!

 

[Voyageur]

PS. Rather than looking at domestic law of multiple countries, perhaps international binding law could be explored?

 

[allen]

However, I'm quite concerned, and can be quite ignorant, but if it is an official and legal "religion" what about the current "religion" somebody is "signed in". You can't follow two religions right? So, for example, in order for myself to participate I would need to resign from the former resulting in apostasy ( so excommunication, loss of rights for a catholic marriage) etc ? Or am I misleading myself here? It's just so exciting but overwhelms me as well.

Well, that is something of a problem. You can't belong to both, obviously. An atty who writes articles on the net and specializes in this sort of thing has written the following:

Q: What constitutes a "church" in the eyes of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS)?
A: The Internal Revenue Code does not specifically define the term "church." However, because special tax rules apply to churches, it is important to distinguish them from other religious organizations. Certain characteristics are generally attributed to churches. These attributes were developed by the IRS and by court decisions and include the following:

[snip]
* A membership not associated with any other church or denomination;
[snip]
Although this list is not all-inclusive, and all of the attributes need not be present in every case, these characteristics, together with other facts and circumstances, are generally used to determine whether an organization constitutes a church for federal tax purposes.

I might be misunderstanding, but in case I'm not...I don't think that "A membership not associated with any other church or denomination" means that members can't be associated with any other church or denomination. I think it means that your membership can't be a derivative or subset of another church or denomination. As far as I know, there are no churches in the U.S. at least that are required to verify the exclusivity of their members. Someone could be Jewish or Seventh Day Adventist and attend those Saturday services, and be a Baptist or Presbyterian and attend those Sunday service, both completely legit as far as each church is concerned.

Of course, I don't *know* this to be the case. I'm not a legal expert. Based on my past church experience (me and others attending and taking an active part in multiple churches), that's how I'd read it, though.

 

[Stuart]

This is amazing news, thanks for the session and the hard work that has been put into this!

 

[domi]

Talk about a strategic enclosure!
Wise as serpents indeed.

But my big question is: where are you going to put the wedding chapel? And can we make Joe the High Priest of Tobacco?

All kidding aside, I am very excited by all this and thank you for making this happen.
Congratulations. I feel history is being made.

 

[anothermagyar]

[quote author=Domi]But my big question is: where are you going to put the wedding chapel? And can we make Joe the High Priest of Tobacco?[/quote]

 

[Erna]

Church?
Religion?
levels of membership?
Tithing?
Prayer?
virtual churches?
online church?
Elders?
higher level?

I think I’m in shock! Honesty is the best policy.
I think I need some time…or maybe a lot of time…

 

[Mona]

I must confess that I was never too keen on joining any church groups, actually just hearing the word 'church' gave me shivers all over my body. But, in this case I have to say it is a fantastic and most clever idea. This is exactly what will give a full protection to this group of people from those nasty parasitic individuals. I would not hesitate at all to join in this church group. Yes, I did say 'church' and I did not even feel any shivering in my body. Finally I will be able to say freely what is on my mind without being ridiculed as a conspiracy theorist or an alien freak. And I will also be able to say no to the vaccine legally. I love this idea.
Thanks Laura