Session 25 April 2010

Re: Cut-Off-Point

Perceval said:
Stevie, try not to let fear take control of your thinking. In fact, try not to respond to any of the recent session comments with fear at all (it takes some effort!). A better way to look at it is to remind yourself that you came with a mission. You and all of us here, probably came here with a mission to fulfill. The mission was to do things in a different way this time (this life) and try and stop the endless cycle of 'karma'. Karma seems to be based in the strong emotions of one life carrying over into the next and causing us to act in ways that simply keep us stuck at this level of reality.

Here's an example: Say that in your first life on earth as a human, you are emotionally traumatised by someone or some event. This creates a 'scar' on your soul or your consciousness, and it carries over into the next life and manifests in strong emotional reactions to certain situations that mirror the situation or dynamic from the past life that caused the trauma. It can cause you to be especially fearful or introverted or aggressive or narcissistic or just a "jerk". In the end, the likelihood is that these previous life experiences and emotions will cause you to act in ways that hurt others. By acting on previous life experiences and repeating the same patterns and hurting others you prevent yourself from learning the lessons that you want to learn and gaining the knowledge about yourself and life that you need to gain to grow and progress.

The problem is that, in each life, you are largely unaware that all of this is going on inside you, pushing you to act and react in ways that are just going to create more 'karma' and keep requiring you to come back and pay off your 'debt'. I don't mean to suggest that this debt is imposed by any higher being, but that YOU (or some part of you chooses) to keep coming back so that you can unburden and heal yourself from these 'scars'. It is YOU that wants to do this, because you realise that you have to be healed of these wounds before you can progress to the next level.

By the way you have been reacting to the session comments it seems that you might have a strong emotional reaction to "judgment". Maybe that is something for you to ponder in terms of your experiences in this life to date and maybe also to ponder how it might be related to past lives. It is through this pondering, and journaling etc (as suggested in the session) that we can begin to open the doors that we have kept closed and that have closed us off to what we really want to be and achieve this time around.

I just want to say 'Thank you' Perceval for taking the time to write this out....this really put things into a clear perspective for me.
I'll definitely keep coming back to this when I feel myself slipping away, to remind myself of what must be done.
It's nice to have a reality check once in awhile. :)
 
Thanks for another great session!

I found the MMS solution to be harmful, not helpful, as several others have mentioned. I only used it for 2 days, but felt quite ill for weeks afterward! Very nasty stuff for sure! :mad:
 
Tigersoap said:
You have to pay in advance, for every little thing that you don't want to do, for every resistance, for every inaction, pay with the loss of your false personality and you're going to suffer, but this suffering has a purpose.
What would a concrete forward paying motion be? At the level that I understand it; would be by exercising brutal honesty towards the machine. But how to pay the false personality currency in interactions, besides observation and external consideration?
 
Perceval said:
Stevie, try not to let fear take control of your thinking. In fact, try not to respond to any of the recent session comments with fear at all (it takes some effort!). A better way to look at it is to remind yourself that you came with a mission. You and all of us here, probably came here with a mission to fulfill. The mission was to do things in a different way this time (this life) and try and stop the endless cycle of 'karma'. Karma seems to be based in the strong emotions of one life carrying over into the next and causing us to act in ways that simply keep us stuck at this level of reality.

Here's an example: Say that in your first life on earth as a human, you are emotionally traumatised by someone or some event. This creates a 'scar' on your soul or your consciousness, and it carries over into the next life and manifests in strong emotional reactions to certain situations that mirror the situation or dynamic from the past life that caused the trauma. It can cause you to be especially fearful or introverted or aggressive or narcissistic or just a "jerk". In the end, the likelihood is that these previous life experiences and emotions will cause you to act in ways that hurt others. By acting on previous life experiences and repeating the same patterns and hurting other you prevent yourself from learning the lessons that you want to learn and gaining the knowledge about yourself and life that you need to gain to grow and progress.

The problem is that, in each life, you are largely unaware that all of this is going on inside you, pushing you to act and react in ways that are just going to create more 'karma' and keep requiring you to come back and pay off your 'debt'. I don't mean to suggest that this debt is imposed by any higher being, but that YOU (or some part of you chooses) to keep coming back so that you can unburden and heal yourself from these 'scars'. It is YOU that wants to do this, because you realise that you have to be healed of these wounds before you can progress to the next level.

By the way you have been reacting to the session comments it seems that you might have a strong emotional reaction to "judgment". Maybe that is something for you to ponder in terms of your experiences in this life to date and maybe also to ponder how it might be related to past lives. It is through this pondering, and journaling etc (as suggested in the session) that we can begin to open the doors that we have kept closed and that have closed us off to what we really want to be and achieve this time around.

Perceval,

Thank you from me as well for taking time to write this. It was beautifully written and leaves me with much to think about.

It seems that it would be almost impossible to face, deal or confront endless challenges without the lessons we learn as we move through life. I’m learning that accepting the truth (as I understand it today) can help heal the “scars” and overrule a destiny that may have been set in motion before I had a chance to object.

Dealing with my everyday stuff ain’t easy but it sure beats the alternative – repeating that “endless cycle”.
 
Freyr said:
Tigersoap said:
You have to pay in advance, for every little thing that you don't want to do, for every resistance, for every inaction, pay with the loss of your false personality and you're going to suffer, but this suffering has a purpose.
What would a concrete forward paying motion be? At the level that I understand it; would be by exercising brutal honesty towards the machine. But how to pay the false personality currency in interactions, besides observation and external consideration?

There is a bit of Gurdjieff that might be useful here. When he talks about the sacrifice of suffering, you might think that this is contradictory with the above, but there is much subtlety here - he is talking about sacrificing of elements of the false personality, imagined elements even, such as personal identification with suffering, in my understanding. So, actually it is very relevant to current events. There are some other really thought-provoking passages in ISOTM, but this is the one I'm talking about:

ISOTM said:
I have already said before that sacrifice is necessary. Without sacrifice, nothing can be attained. But if there is anything in the world that people do not understand it is the idea of sacrifice. They think they have to sacrifice something that they have. For example, I once said that they must sacrifice "faith", "tranquility", or "health." All these words must be taken in quotation marks. In actual fact, they have to sacrifice only what they imagine they have, and which in reality they do not have. They must sacrifice their fantasies. This is difficult for them, very difficult. It is much easier to sacrifice real things.

Another thing that people must give up is their suffering. It is very difficult also to sacrifice one's suffering. A man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering. Man is made in such a way that he is never so attached to anything as he is to his suffering. And it is necessary to be free from suffering. No one who is not free from suffering, who has not sacrificed his suffering, can work. Nothing can be attained without suffering but at the same time, one must begin by sacrificing suffering. Now, decipher what this means.
 
Nomad said:
Freyr said:
Tigersoap said:
You have to pay in advance, for every little thing that you don't want to do, for every resistance, for every inaction, pay with the loss of your false personality and you're going to suffer, but this suffering has a purpose.
What would a concrete forward paying motion be? At the level that I understand it; would be by exercising brutal honesty towards the machine. But how to pay the false personality currency in interactions, besides observation and external consideration?

There is a bit of Gurdjieff that might be useful here. When he talks about the sacrifice of suffering, you might think that this is contradictory with the above, but there is much subtlety here - he is talking about sacrificing of elements of the false personality, imagined elements even, such as personal identification with suffering, in my understanding. So, actually it is very relevant to current events. There are some other really thought-provoking passages in ISOTM, but this is the one I'm talking about:

ISOTM said:
I have already said before that sacrifice is necessary. Without sacrifice, nothing can be attained. But if there is anything in the world that people do not understand it is the idea of sacrifice. They think they have to sacrifice something that they have. For example, I once said that they must sacrifice "faith", "tranquility", or "health." All these words must be taken in quotation marks. In actual fact, they have to sacrifice only what they imagine they have, and which in reality they do not have. They must sacrifice their fantasies. This is difficult for them, very difficult. It is much easier to sacrifice real things.

Another thing that people must give up is their suffering. It is very difficult also to sacrifice one's suffering. A man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering. Man is made in such a way that he is never so attached to anything as he is to his suffering. And it is necessary to be free from suffering. No one who is not free from suffering, who has not sacrificed his suffering, can work. Nothing can be attained without suffering but at the same time, one must begin by sacrificing suffering. Now, decipher what this means. [Emphasis in bold is mine]

In a previous session, Laura asked the C's to comment on the nature of pity, and they stated: "Pity those who pity". To my understanding, most negative emotional states (anger, jealousy etc.) are usually a form of self-pity, and the act of observing these states in yourself without attachment is the beginning of "concrete forward paying motion" that allows you to begin the work. Only that way can you become brutally honest with the machine and identify false personality. OSIT
 
Thank you all for the work on this thread. This session could not have come at a better time.

The last two days has been the narcissistic, self-centered fantasy self smacking me square in the face. Plus having a dream last night that did the same. Hurts terribly, but I as well take two steps forward and three steps back. Constantly chasing my tail. The session was not directed towards me, but has aided in my self awareness of this pattern that was so blatantly pointed out to me recently. The denial that I find myself in was overwhelming and I have taken extreme measures to see it. Well at first forced to see it and I reacted in denial. Not until this dream did I realise how much in the muck I have been. I think that the two steps are enough, when what really counts is the three steps backwards. And saying your sorry only works if you actually do the necessary work to make the changes. Yes I have been a jerk, but this recognition is only one step. Understanding it is the second. Now instead of treading backwards, I need to take a third step and do.

Having kept dream journals for years I often look back and read the dreams of my past. Sometimes I try and analyze them, never have thought of using another journel to record what thoughts and feelings came out of it. Great suggestion. Have been working on a journal of my life and have been made aware of many things. This awareness comes and goes though.

Thank goodness that the Nexus conference fiasco was made apparent before actually going there. And all seems to be well and good at Buckwheat Castle. For this I am grateful. It is truly sad that the editor of Nexus felt he had to find support in the very people that have caused so much problems for you Laura. I trust that he will see the true light and not the artificial one he currently is focused on. Oh those sacred cows and how much trouble they cause.

So many things have been written here that I want to second the support for Laura and team. Not a follower am I but to walk along side and share. Thanks again to all.
 
Laura said:
Session Date: April 25th 2010


Q: (L) I've often wondered when these names come up. They're just such strange things. What is it that they mean?

A: They relate to the specific vibrational frequency of the moment as expressed by the numerical frequency of the combination of vowels and consonants.

Q: (L) What is the numerical frequency of a vowel and consonant?

A: It is a science barely understood by your civilization but was once well known. Words have deeper meaning than you suspect.

Q: (Bubbles) Like in numerology?

A: Similar, but that is a dim reflection of the ancient science.

i would like to learn this science. any books on it?
 
Rhys said:
In a previous session, Laura asked the C's to comment on the nature of pity, and they stated: "Pity those who pity". To my understanding, most negative emotional states (anger, jealousy etc.) are usually a form of self-pity, and the act of observing these states in yourself without attachment is the beginning of "concrete forward paying motion" that allows you to begin the work. Only that way can you become brutally honest with the machine and identify false personality. OSIT

This seems to me to be spot-on, Rhys! The suffering G talks about is osit the "suffering" of our false personas who dwell in their subjective pains and internal considerations. Moving out of this subjective false persona's viewpoint and spotting where it is false elicits another type of suffering, the true suffering of facing one's abyss, one's lies and fakeness. This suffering is the one of facing truth and bearing it - as well as moving on with this new sight, integrating it and applying this brutal honest seeing to the next aspect of the machine. So the suffering continues, especially when struggling to work against the falseness of the machine. Osit.
 
Nathaniel said:
Laura said:
Session Date: April 25th 2010

Q: (L) I've often wondered when these names come up. They're just such strange things. What is it that they mean?
A: They relate to the specific vibrational frequency of the moment as expressed by the numerical frequency of the combination of vowels and consonants.
Q: (L) What is the numerical frequency of a vowel and consonant?
A: It is a science barely understood by your civilization but was once well known. Words have deeper meaning than you suspect.
Q: (Bubbles) Like in numerology?
A: Similar, but that is a dim reflection of the ancient science.
i would like to learn this science. any books on it?

I think that based on what the C's said about this science, that is that it is "barely understood by your civilization" that the chances of finding some good books on the subject are slim. However, Gimpy and Ailen listed some possible sources here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=17496.msg157924;topicseen#msg157924
 
:) Perceval that post make me think about my situation. I'm going to begin some kind of diary or write my problems to analize them.

The thing about the words, remembers me Masaru Emoto, about the effects of the words or thoughts made of the words, and its effects on the water.

Love make an increidble crystal, satan make some kind of hole, or makes a hole image in the crystals. It makes you think again if coca-cola have some effect on the sustance into the bottle, or the water from . Like your name :huh:

And the post from Laura about the house you want to buy it helps me a lot too

oh :lol: I am finding that from March, these are glorious days if I compare these days with my other past days from my birthday...
 
Nomad said:
ISOTM said:
I have already said before that sacrifice is necessary. Without sacrifice, nothing can be attained. But if there is anything in the world that people do not understand it is the idea of sacrifice. They think they have to sacrifice something that they have. For example, I once said that they must sacrifice "faith", "tranquility", or "health." All these words must be taken in quotation marks. In actual fact, they have to sacrifice only what they imagine they have, and which in reality they do not have. They must sacrifice their fantasies. This is difficult for them, very difficult. It is much easier to sacrifice real things.
Another thing that people must give up is their suffering. It is very difficult also to sacrifice one's suffering. A man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering. Man is made in such a way that he is never so attached to anything as he is to his suffering. And it is necessary to be free from suffering. No one who is not free from suffering, who has not sacrificed his suffering, can work. Nothing can be attained without suffering but at the same time, one must begin by sacrificing suffering. Now, decipher what this means.

I pondered on this and I think it is so profound and yet so difficult to understand and see it in action in myself.
Indeed, I am attached to my suffering.
I am attached to this idea of myself in certain situations that I need this suffering to be whole.

I'll give an example, I am working on a project and I am really frustrated and angry because it does not work out well, I can't find the right way to do it.
I am attached to these negative feelings because I feel justified and it is almost impossible not to see for a short moment that I "enjoy" this state I am in.
It's very difficult to remove myself from these feelings and accept that it is the way things are, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Just because I actually "enjoy" this suffering I don't let go.
When I say I, it's not really me who likes that but the predator's mind and it feeds.

Well that's how I see it in my particular case.

Edit:Grammar
 
Tigersoap said:
Nomad said:
ISOTM said:
I have already said before that sacrifice is necessary. Without sacrifice, nothing can be attained. But if there is anything in the world that people do not understand it is the idea of sacrifice. They think they have to sacrifice something that they have. For example, I once said that they must sacrifice "faith", "tranquility", or "health." All these words must be taken in quotation marks. In actual fact, they have to sacrifice only what they imagine they have, and which in reality they do not have. They must sacrifice their fantasies. This is difficult for them, very difficult. It is much easier to sacrifice real things.
Another thing that people must give up is their suffering. It is very difficult also to sacrifice one's suffering. A man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering. Man is made in such a way that he is never so attached to anything as he is to his suffering. And it is necessary to be free from suffering. No one who is not free from suffering, who has not sacrificed his suffering, can work. Nothing can be attained without suffering but at the same time, one must begin by sacrificing suffering. Now, decipher what this means.

I pondered on this and I think it is so profound and yet so difficult to understand and see it in action in myself.
Indeed, I am attached to my suffering.
I am attached to this idea of myself in certain situations that I need this suffering to be whole.

I'll give an example, I am working on a project and I am really frustrated and angry because it does not work out well, I can't find the right way to do it.
I am attached to these negative feelings because I feel justified and it is almost impossible not to see for a short moment that I "enjoy" this state I am in.
It's very difficult to remove myself from these feelings and accept that is the way things are, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Just because I actually "enjoy" this suffering I don't let go.
When I say I, it's not really me who likes that but the predator's mind and it feeds.

Well that's how I see it in my particular case.

That's a good example there, thanks Tigersoap. Enjoying one's teensy-weensy sufferings.. quite something to ponder there...
 
ISOTM said:
It is very difficult also to sacrifice one's suffering. A man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering. Man is made in such a way that he is never so attached to anything as he is to his suffering. And it is necessary to be free from suffering. No one who is not free from suffering, who has not sacrificed his suffering, can work. Nothing can be attained without suffering but at the same time, one must begin by sacrificing suffering. Now, decipher what this means.

The one who identifies self as a victim of disease, government, aliens, fate, parents, psychopaths, etc. suffers. The suffering one must sacrifice is the delicious suffering of the victim. One is relieved of responsibility for one's life if one is the victim of outside forces. This seems to me the suffering which is fantasy and is the first sacrifice one must make on the Way.

There is legitimate suffering incurred by conscious labor and intentional suffering. We all know labor is work and we suffer when we make effort in the direction of responsibility for self and others, even generations of men and women unborn. I can tell you I have experienced suffering when I attempt to stop blaming and complaining about anything. I have nothing to say when I stop complaining and blaming. If I am not the complainer, who am I? This has been a difficult and illuminating exercise on discovering my own self pity and victim status. If it is what it is, then what am I?

It seems intentional suffering is a necessary construct to illuminate and exorcise the "false personality" or "predators mind" which has usurped and controls my being and behavior. Something must suffer and die before one can be born again. This intentional suffering can include detailed observation of one's inner feelings, one's sensations of the outer, and one's abstract considerations in the present moment. This three fold simultaneous experiencing establishes a new level of being. This seems to be legitimate work and suffering, as I understand it today.

What is the "I" which observes and participates in these worlds; inner, outer, and abstract? Is this the beginning of "growing a soul"?
 
Freyr said:
Tigersoap said:
You have to pay in advance, for every little thing that you don't want to do, for every resistance, for every inaction, pay with the loss of your false personality and you're going to suffer, but this suffering has a purpose.
What would a concrete forward paying motion be? At the level that I understand it; would be by exercising brutal honesty towards the machine. But how to pay the false personality currency in interactions, besides observation and external consideration?

Well, maybe you can't have all of the items with which you pay in advance all at once. Maybe you can give up the entire false personality all at once. Maybe you just have to focus continually on opening yourself to being willing to pay. I think that the first step towards healing ourselves and paying in this way is to really focus on self-observation. We have to make it our single goal, and realise that there is no other goal more important. It has to be the first thing you remind yourself of when you wake up in the morning and the last thing you think about before sleep. And of course, all through the day too.

By self-observing, that is, bringing our attention back to the present moment and what's going on inside us at every opportunity, we have a much better chance of catching ourselves before an emotional reaction can overwhelm us and before the energy can be stolen by the intellect and turned into theory-making and projection and blaming everything outside of ourselves. Cursing another person or the universe or life or whatever. Self-observation can in this way help to recognise emotions before they get repressed or intellectualised.

Self-observing focuses the attention on us, on the little details of what is going through our minds at any point during the day. For sure, when we experience an emotional reaction to something, it is HARD to deal with it, and maybe even harder to express precisely how we feel. Here's the problem. If you are in the long term habit of denying your emotions, you have a problem.

That emotional energy HAS to go somewhere. If you don't use it in expressing the emotion as it is, then most often the energy gets used up by the intellect, which goes into overdrive to explain what you are feeling and what to do about it. Now remember, you deny emotions, have done so for a long time. You deny your childish feelings and what they tell you. Like, "I am scared", "I am vulnerable", "I feel like you don't love me". "I WANT MY MOMMY!" :)

So when the intellect uses this emotional energy to tell you what is going on, it is NOT going to tell you what you are really feeling, first because its job is to "protect" you from hurt and pain (which it has decided from past experience is what happens when you show your emotions), second, because it is not going to admit anything about you that conflicts with the 'perfect' image you have of yourself. And third because it can't really access your emotions because that is not its job.

So what happens? Your intellect uses this emotional energy, that it has effectively stolen, and it makes theories about the emotional shock you have just experienced, but remember, it cannot blame you or show you up as having any "childish" feelings etc (because it has learned that is bad!) so it projects outwards. This person is bad, that person is bad, this situation is bad, life is bad, Oh! if only....blah blah blah. Meanwhile, all that needed to happen was for the original feeling that was provoked in you to be expressed as you felt it. These feelings are buried deep. So we have to find a way to access them.

It's like having a bunch of symbols in your belly that represent the various different feelings you experienced as a child, usually as a result of trauma, and for one reason or another, you learned that they were bad and should be hidden away. So there they sit. Every now and then, someone says or does something, or something happens that creates in you a distinct echo of that original trauma-based emotion, and it lights up like a bulb and starts hopping up and down inside you.

So what should happen on such an occasion? Obviously we should re-experience the emotion and trauma, let it out and let it go. One down, a bunch to go. But what usually happens is that we cannot bear to re-experience these old feelings of hurt, so, like I said above, we have a well-built mechanism to deal with them and it basically works by projecting the feelings outside of ourselves onto people or things.

Obviously though, there are real consequences from this.

First, we spend our lives with these old feelings sitting inside of us. We don't release them, but they certainly colour our thinking and view of life because they are very much a part of us. They often remind us to be distrustful of life and people in it. That people hurt us and are generally not to be trusted with anything that could threaten our hurt inner selves and our fragile and unrealistic image of ourselves that we project outwards.

Second, every time these old feelings "light up" in response to a perceived similar dynamic as the original, we blame someone else for (deliberately, or so we believe) "making us feel that way". Imagine we had an old war wound that was painful to touch but not visible. We meet someone and they accidentally touch the wound with knowing anything about it. Then imagine that we get really angry, shout at the person or just walk off in a huff and continue to hold a grudge against them for ages and convince ourselves that they really did that on purpose.

In short, we blame other people for something that has nothing to do with them and everything to do with us. This is easy to do because that belief in the inherent untrustworthiness of life and people in it that is generated by these old emotions (or wounds) is always there. Basically, these old wounds and emotions effectively create the situation where we get apparent "evidence" that what the old wounds are telling us is in fact true! It's a circular argument to beat them all because it can govern our entire lives! The reality that we created the entire dynamic and perpetuate it ourselves is what we have to understand.

Needless to say, all of this will likely have a very bad effect on our hopes for fulfilling and loving relationships with others.

Third, we remain with a non-functioning emotional center, since it is clogged up with 'stuck' old trauma. This lack of a properly working feeling center has serious consequences not only for really connecting with other people and giving and receiving true love, but also for our ability to connect to the deeper reality we live in.

Fourth, according to Mouravieff, without three properly functioning lower centers, we cannot expect the formation of a "magnetic center" and the access to higher centers.

But we've got plenty to work on before thinking about higher centers. We can all decide today to make it our singular goal - to observe ourselves in every moment with the aim of making conscious awareness a permanent aspect of our beings. By doing this, we progressively gain control over our thinking and turn the attention inwards to rediscover our lost emotions and the broader lost world of pure emotions.

Perceval
 
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