Session 9 December 2017

[goyacobol]

Thanks to all for this thought provoking session.

Keeping in mind that "knowledge protects" I think we all need to get busy with the Work. If those who have been here for awhile haven't figured that out by now I don't know what to say. If you are new to the forum or even if you have been here for a long time. There is plenty to catch up on here:

Collingwood's Idea of History & Speculum Mentis


Session 15 August 2009

Q: (A***l) I have a question. They talked about genetics making it so that people can't receive things. Is there something that people
can do that would help change their genetics in some way that would help them become more receptive?
A: You can't change, but you can activate it if it is latent.
Q: (L) In other words, a lot of people have a lot of genetics going on that they aren't using. (Allen) And those genetics can be
activated. (A***l) So how do you activate it?
A: Effort counts for a lot. And effort can lead to knowledge which does what?
Q: (Joe) Protects!
A: For example, the recent issues of brain chemistry: this understanding has come about due to effort and the growth of knowledge!
The result will be activation of additional DNA! Notice how the knowledge is now growing exponentially with networking and
experimentation!

Session 15 August 2009

(L) Not seeing yourself and others clearly...
(Galatea) I've been thinking lately that too much intellect is a bad
thing. Is that true?
A: No
Q: (Galatea) Why not?
A: The brain is your greatest gift if you learn how to use it.

Session 15 August 2009

(L) Well, if you don't ask it, I'll think of one.
(parallel) How can I process or work with the emotions that I feel are underneath, but which sort of get
stored under a certain layer in daily life, and so never get processed?
(L) Never get expressed or processed? Because they're not being expressed, or they have never been
expressed in any way? How can you deal with the emotions that block you, or something like that?
A: Keep in mind that you have dealt with things the same way for so long that there are very deep
tracks in the brain. At the same time, there are circuits that have been little or never used. This must
change!!! Super efforts are needed or you will deteriorate rapidly!

"To be, or not to be, that is the question:" from William Shakespeare's play Hamlet

Session 18 July 2015

Q: (Perceval) So it's basically wasted on a lot of people in a certain
sense.
(Pierre) At least they're not sick.
(Perceval) No, the people who want to fight against the system and
who care about the state of the world and the lies and all that stuff,
they don't have the immunity. But the ones who do have it, they're
not influenced by the waves but they don't care.
(Galatea) So is there positive information we can acquire somehow to
combat the negative information?
A: We have given you the data and clues. Knowledge must be
acquired via efforts so as to make proper connections and pathways
in the brain.
Q: (L) Why is it so important to make connections and pathways in
the brain?
A: That is, quite simply, building your receiver!!!

Or just pop a "soma" pill and everything will be fine.

 

[BrendaH]

Q: (L) What was the soma?

A: You have researched this. What do you think?

Cs avoided a direct answer to that question. Either because we are not ready to experience it or they were trying to avoid consequences of the disclosure, or if soma never had the described properties. I think the proper question to the Cs should be asked as "If there was soma with its fabled longevity properties?"

I think they didn't answer because Laura already knew the answer, they said "You have researched this. What do you think?", if you observe, Laura even explained what the soma was.

Q: (L) Alright. He says that the soma, which is a hallucinogenic brew, was the most important part of yoga. Is that true?

A: No.

Q: (L) What was the soma?

A: You have researched this. What do you think?

Q: (L) Well... According to the most ancient texts, the soma or haoma was something that gave somebody superpowers, made them super-alert, prevented them from sleeping, they were extra strong... They called it the plant of immortality. It was a juice that was pressed out of a plant. It was pressed out and drunk immediately. It wasn’t fermented in any way. It was strained through lamb's wool or something. It grew in the mountains, not in pastures where mushrooms grow. Most of the experts that I've read who seem to have a clue what they're talking about say that it's an ephedra plant that's a substance that's very similar to amphetamine.

(Joe) Right, so it makes you super-alert, super-active, super-whatever, and you don't have to sleep. Then you drop dead! [laughter]

(L) Well, usually they didn't get so big a dose. But it made them pretty charged up. I'm sure some of them did drop dead from it. So, basically I would say that just from my own research that when this guy says that, he's full of bollocks.

 

[SlavaOn]

Q: (L) Alright. He says that the soma, which is a hallucinogenic brew, was the most important part of yoga. Is that true?
A: No.

According to the answer soma was not a hallucinogenic aka psychedelic brew or it was not the most important part of yoga or both.
I think it is both. And in any case, that drink could have been brewed from non-hallucinogenic plants or if from hallucinogenic plants but not because of their hallucinogenic properties. The desired effect of longevity (immortality) does not call for a psychedelic trip.

Q: (L) What was the soma?
A: You have researched this. What do you think?

Q: (L) Well... According to the most ancient texts, the soma or haoma was something that gave somebody superpowers, made them super-alert, prevented them from sleeping, they were extra strong... They called it the plant of immortality. It was a juice that was pressed out of a plant. It was pressed out and drunk immediately. It wasn’t fermented in any way. It was strained through lamb's wool or something. It grew in the mountains, not in pastures where mushrooms grow. Most of the experts that I've read who seem to have a clue what they're talking about say that it's an ephedra plant that's a substance that's very similar to amphetamine.

I explored the modern literature on soma to an extent and there is a general consensus that none of the known entheogen plants fits the bill - not Peganum Harmala aka Syrian Rue or ephedra or mushroom Amanita Muscaria. There should have been some other - currently extinct plant. The only ancient text that I found, that mentions soma, was "Rig Vedas IX". For example Hymn III from http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv09003.htm

1. HERE present this Immortal God flies, like a bird upon her wings,
To settle in the vats of wood.
2 This God, made ready with the hymn, runs swiftly through the winding ways,
Inviolable as he flows.
3 This God while flowing is adorned, like a bay steed for war, by men
Devout and skilled in holy songs.
4 He, like a warrior going forth with heroes, as he flows along
Is fain to win all precious boons.
5 This God, as he is flowing on, speeds like a car and gives his gifts:
He lets his voice be heard of all
6 Praised by the sacred bards, this God dives into waters, and bestows
Rich gifts upon the worshipper.
7 Away he rushes with his stream, across the regions, into heaven,
And roars as he is flowing on.
8 While flowing, meet for sacrifice, he hath gone up to heaven across
The regions, irresistible.
9 After the 'way of ancient time, this God, pressed out for Deities,
Flows tawny to the straining-cloth.
10 This Lord of many Holy Laws, even at his birth engendering strength,
Effused, flows onward in a stream.

In many hymns it is described as a juice from grass filtered through sieves, it becomes golden/reddish in color and is mixed with milk. Hymn XIV:

1. THE pressers from the Soma-press send forth thy juice for rapturous joy
The speckled sap runs like a flood.
2 With strength we follow through the sieve him who brings might and wins the kine,
Enrobed in water with his juice.
3 Pour on the sieve the Soma, ne’er subdued in waters, waterless,
And make it pure for Indra's drink.
4 Moved by the purifier's thought, the Soma flows into the sieve:
By wisdom it hath gained its home.
5 With humble homage, Indra, have the Soma-drops flowed forth to thee,
Contending for the glorious prize.
6 Purified in his fleecy garb, attaining every beauty, he
Stands, hero-like, amid the kine.
7 Swelling, as ’twere, to heights of heaven, the stream of the creative juice
Falls lightly on the cleansing sieve.
8 Thus, Soma, purifying himwho knoweth song mid living men,
Thou wanderest through the cloth of wool.

 

[aimarok]

Thank you guys for such a fascinating session! And comments bring even more to consider.

 

[SlavaOn]

That was the second most famous ancient text that mentions THE plant (but not by the name soma)
The Epic of Gilgamesh Tablet XI http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab11.htm
Here Utanapishtim aka Noah tells Gilgamesh:

"Gilgamesh, you came here exhausted and worn out.
What can I give you so you can return to your land?
I will disclose to you a thing that is hidden, Gilgamesh, a... I will tell you.
There is a plant... like a boxthorn,
whose thorns will prick your hand like a rose.
If your hands reach that plant you will become a young man again."
Hearing this, Gilgamesh opened a conduit(!) (to the Apsu)
and attached heavy stones to his feet.
They dragged him down, to the Apsu they pulled him.
He took the plant, though it pricked his hand,
and cut the heavy stones from his feet,
letting the waves(?) throw him onto its shores.
Gilgamesh spoke to Urshanabi, the ferryman, saying:
"Urshanabi, this plant is a plant against decay(!)
by which a man can attain his survival(!).
I will bring it to Uruk-Haven,
and have an old man eat the plant to test it.
The plant's name is 'The Old Man Becomes a Young Man.'"
Then I will eat it and return to the condition of my youth."
At twenty leagues they broke for some food,
at thirty leagues they stopped for the night.
Seeing a spring and how cool its waters were,
Gilgamesh went down and was bathing in the water.
A snake smelled the fragrance of the plant,
silently came up and carried off the plant.
While going back it sloughed off its casing.'

It would be proper to ask "Is that the same plant as soma?"

 

[Phill4]

Q: (L) What was the soma?

A: You have researched this. What do you think?

Cs avoided a direct answer to that question. Either because we are not ready to experience it or they were trying to avoid consequences of the disclosure, or if soma never had the described properties. I think the proper question to the Cs should be asked as "If there was soma with its fabled longevity properties?"

I don't think so, their answer was not a deflection, simply that Laura had that knowledge because she had researched this, it is clear in their response. The continuing discussion reveals it, no?:

Q: (L) Well... According to the most ancient texts, the soma or haoma was something that gave somebody superpowers, made them super-alert, prevented them from sleeping, they were extra strong... They called it the plant of immortality. It was a juice that was pressed out of a plant. It was pressed out and drunk immediately. It wasn’t fermented in any way. It was strained through lamb's wool or something. It grew in the mountains, not in pastures where mushrooms grow. Most of the experts that I've read who seem to have a clue what they're talking about say that it's an ephedra plant that's a substance that's very similar to amphetamine.

(Joe) Right, so it makes you super-alert, super-active, super-whatever, and you don't have to sleep. Then you drop dead! [laughter]

(L) Well, usually they didn't get so big a dose. But it made them pretty charged up. I'm sure some of them did drop dead from it. So, basically I would say that just from my own research that when this guy says that, he's full of bollocks.

(Joe) Good answer.

(L) Anyhow, the guy goes on to say about the mushrooms that they give you direct contact with your genetic system.

A: Nonsense!

Meaning that the the "superpowers" were a state of hyperactivity and thus a change in perception that they associated with spirituality, (from what I am understanding), but that that this appreciation is inaccurate. because this state of hyperactivity is NOT a synonym of spirituality, just a different state of awareness.

 

[John G]

According to the answer soma was not a hallucinogenic aka psychedelic brew or it was not the most important part of yoga or both.
I think it is both. And in any case, that drink could have been brewed from non-hallucinogenic plants or if from hallucinogenic plants but not because of their hallucinogenic properties. The desired effect of longevity (immortality) does not call for a psychedelic trip...

I explored the modern literature on soma to an extent and there is a general consensus that none of the known entheogen plants fits the bill - not Peganum Harmala aka Syrian Rue or ephedra or mushroom Amanita Muscaria. There should have been some other - currently extinct plant. The only ancient text that I found, that mentions soma, was "Rig Vedas IX"...

In many hymns it is described as a juice from grass filtered through sieves, it becomes golden/reddish in color and is mixed with milk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botanical_identity_of_soma%E2%80%93haoma#Ephedra

Another candidate of the non-hallucinogenic, stimulant hypothesis is a species of the genus Ephedra... In the late 19th century, the highly conservative Zoroastrians of Yazd province in Iran were found to use Ephedra (genus Ephedra), which was locally known as hum or homa... The marrow in the stems is brown-coloured in some species, reminiscent of Sanskrit babhru ("greyish-brown"), used exclusively in the Vedas to describe the extract... The native name for Ephedra in most Indo-Iranian languages of Central Asia is derived from *sauma- (e.g. Nepali somalata, Pashto Oman/unan, Baluchi hum/huma/uma)... Falk established that the effect of the alkaloid ephedrine was, in many respects, similar to adrenaline, but "its actions are less intense but more prolonged than those of adrenaline, and, most important, it prevents sleeping."...

In his autobiography, Swami Rama recalls contacting an Indian herbologist and Vedic scholar named Vaidya Bhairavdutt, who is described as "the only living authority on soma"... Several students attempt to restrain the apparently slightly built Bhairavdutt, but are unable to do so. Meanwhile, Swami Rama develops a crippling headache, a symptom which is compatible with the effects of ephedrine overdose. No hallucinogenic effects are described by Swami Rama...

I think the "immortality" is more in the really good cup of coffee, feeling the adrenaline kind of sense. It as you say not a hallucinogen; it's a stimulant. Not a hallucinogen, stimulant "immortality", modern use, local names for the plant, and even color via the Vedas seem to point to ephedra.

 

[Divide by Zero]

I think the "immortality" is more in the really good cup of coffee, feeling the adrenaline kind of sense. It as you say not a hallucinogen; it's a stimulant. Not a hallucinogen, stimulant "immortality", modern use, local names for the plant, and even color via the Vedas seem to point to ephedra.

I agree. SlavaOn if you have read Collinwood and/or Carr, they describe that history is filtered through those that write it. Just because they said it brought immortality, we can't be sure that was what actually happened.

If something makes you feel energetic, like a strong stimulant as ephedra, it might be thought to be as immortality or "of the Gods". Even you hear people addicted to meth amphetamine or cocaine/crack think that they are super powerful.

 

[SlavaOn]

There is a large list of natural stimulants known to men for millenia: Ma Huang (Ephedra spp.), Coffee, Tea (Thea sinesis), Chocolate (Theobroma cacao), Guarana (Ilex spp)., Kola (Cola nitida), Betel (Areca catechu), Khat (Erythroxylum coca). They were cultivated and propagated over the world. No devastations, famines or wars were able to rob the mankind off these plants.

Somehow, soma (as a stimulant) is not on that list. Since there is a plenty of alternatives, Gods would have been able to pick and choose. Why would the hymns were sang ten millenias ago while describing in details the manufacturing process of some stimulant drink? And compared the active element in it to Immortal God? I think it was for a reason. That drink should had had some unique properties that would put it into a category of its own. Is it the same plant as the one called 'The Old Man Becomes a Young Man" by Noah? It could be. I can speculate that the knowledge of the plant would be very restricted, its cultivation would be very protected and only managed by selected few. Thus, in case of a global disaster, the plant could have survived but the knowledge of it may have perished.

 

[goyacobol]

There is a large list of natural stimulants known to men for millenia: Ma Huang (Ephedra spp.), Coffee, Tea (Thea sinesis), Chocolate (Theobroma cacao), Guarana (Ilex spp)., Kola (Cola nitida), Betel (Areca catechu), Khat (Erythroxylum coca). They were cultivated and propagated over the world. No devastations, famines or wars were able to rob the mankind off these plants.

Somehow, soma (as a stimulant) is not on that list. Since there is a plenty of alternatives, Gods would have been able to pick and choose. Why would the hymns were sang ten millenias ago while describing in details the manufacturing process of some stimulant drink? And compared the active element in it to Immortal God? I think it was for a reason. That drink should had had some unique properties that would put it into a category of its own. Is it the same plant as the one called 'The Old Man Becomes a Young Man" by Noah? It could be. I can speculate that the knowledge of the plant would be very restricted, its cultivation would be very protected and only managed by selected few. Thus, in case of a global disaster, the plant could have survived but the knowledge of it may have perished.

SlavaOn,

If you are interested in these plants for general health benefits I think that is reasonable but I personally would not get too excited about finding one great plant that will take the place of learning lessons and growing in knowledge.

Session 12 December 1995

Q: (L) Well, that says a lot. One of the questions on the list is: In many of the Sumerian drawings and
literature, the gods, the Annunaki, are described as eating a plant that grew at the bottom of the
ocean, and this plant was the source of eternal life.
A: Nonsense! The source of eternal life is existence!
Q: (L) Well, the point was that there was some sort of food that these beings ate that was unusual or
different that somehow enhanced their abilities to an extreme degree...
A: Totally false and you should know it!! All so-called "special powers" come from non-physical
sources!!!

 

[SlavaOn]

If you are interested in these plants for general health benefits I think that is reasonable but I personally would not get too excited about finding one great plant that will take the place of learning lessons and growing in knowledge.

I agree. Finding one great plant is just a part of learning and growing.

 

[mkrnhr]

If you are interested in these plants for general health benefits I think that is reasonable but I personally would not get too excited about finding one great plant that will take the place of learning lessons and growing in knowledge.

I agree. Finding one great plant is just a part of learning and growing.

It's more of a limiting factor for growth. There are no shortcuts or one miracle solution to everything. Learning and growth require the combination of various factors operating at different levels of being: proper nourishment, knowledge, psychic and emotional hygiene, brain training, proper thinking, etc.

 

[John G]

There is a large list of natural stimulants known to men for millenia: Ma Huang (Ephedra spp.), Coffee, Tea (Thea sinesis), Chocolate (Theobroma cacao), Guarana (Ilex spp)., Kola (Cola nitida), Betel (Areca catechu), Khat (Erythroxylum coca). They were cultivated and propagated over the world. No devastations, famines or wars were able to rob the mankind off these plants.

Somehow, soma (as a stimulant) is not on that list...

The Vedic name for it is soma and the Avestan name is haoma and ephedra is still known as homa in Iran. If you trace the origins of Indo-Iranian religions to the Pontic-Caspian region; it likely started there and would still grow in Iran but not India so it makes more sense that homa as a stimulant would last better in Iran. This idea is from this Wikipedia link I mentioned previously:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botanical_identity_of_soma%E2%80%93haoma

 

[Fluffy]

Thank you for sharing the session with us

Q: (Artemis) Okay. I have this experience where I have this knowledge where I thought that I could do something, like I had some sort of ability, but I lost it. Do you know what I'm talking about? I can't describe it to you.

Could you elaborate on this at all, Artemis? It's just that it stood out to me personally because I've always wished I could ask the C's an almost identical question.

I would if I could. It's very hard for me to put into words. I had this knowledge - something I just understood I could do, and it all made sense in that very moment, and I thought it was amazing. Almost as soon as it came, it was gone, but I remember knowing that I knew it. Can't get any clearer than that

I also have experienced something like this, multiple times. It fleets in, its momentary, like seconds but feels like it could also be hours, nothing my current conscious ability can understand. If I try to rationalise with it or emphasise it I get very confused and can't think at all about anything for a short time.I find it frustrating because I cannot grasp a thing about it but it's familiar and natural. Attempting to think about it after I come back (feels may be like I 'left' or shifted away from this reality that is my normal state of mind) leaves me with a knowing of some kind, by nothing could describe it.

I've read many of Carlos Casteneda's books and get a real deep kick in a place of 'knowing' from them as well, also something unexplainable....

Could it be something like what Carlos describes in his learning...? Beyond the rational human mind, moving of the assemblage point...???¿ the place of KNOWING ¿

 

[Laura]

There is a large list of natural stimulants known to men for millenia: Ma Huang (Ephedra spp.), Coffee, Tea (Thea sinesis), Chocolate (Theobroma cacao), Guarana (Ilex spp)., Kola (Cola nitida), Betel (Areca catechu), Khat (Erythroxylum coca). They were cultivated and propagated over the world. No devastations, famines or wars were able to rob the mankind off these plants.

Somehow, soma (as a stimulant) is not on that list. Since there is a plenty of alternatives, Gods would have been able to pick and choose. Why would the hymns were sang ten millenias ago while describing in details the manufacturing process of some stimulant drink? And compared the active element in it to Immortal God? I think it was for a reason. That drink should had had some unique properties that would put it into a category of its own. Is it the same plant as the one called 'The Old Man Becomes a Young Man" by Noah? It could be. I can speculate that the knowledge of the plant would be very restricted, its cultivation would be very protected and only managed by selected few. Thus, in case of a global disaster, the plant could have survived but the knowledge of it may have perished.

Here you are falling into wishful thinking. There are many reasons that hymns would talk about some sort of magical substance that has magical properties because it happens rather often in myths and legends. People do just "make stuff up".