The Vegetarian Myth

[Gertrudes]

Well, this week seems to be more pronounced, but a few months I guess. I've been eating some buckwheat shortbread this week. And today wasn't really that bad. I think it could be too much fat intake maybe, but I don't get nauseous.

Hmmm...funny you should say this. I've been upping my fat intake lately and noticed some nausea at times. Today I over did it at breakfast and ate a lot of fat, after 2 hrs felt nausea followed by strong abdominal cramps. I haven't had abdominal cramps since the time I used to eat gluten, and not for this long (its' 7pm and still with cramps) so this is very abnormal. I'm going to cut down on fat for a while and see how it goes, it might help my digestion and bloating. I don't think it is the fat that's doing it per se, only that my digestive system has been made very sensitive due to a stressful period last year and more recently the use anti fungals, and is struggling to cope with too much, too soon.

Out of curiosity, did the few months you mentioned coincided with a change in your diet?

I'm still taking a probiotic, which I found out on another thread is not necessary on this diet. I've always thought that gas was a normal part of digestion.

From what I read in "Fiber Menace" too much gas is not a good sign, and so it is total absence of gas.

Added: to further clarify the above, too much gas would equal too much fermentation and rotting food, total absence of gas would equal lack of good bacteria.

 

[Ollie]

What I've noticed over the past few weeks is that on FIR sauna days, I experience a lot of farting (although no bloating), and a lot of visits to the bathroom to excrete, far above that of the rest of the week. From reading The Fiber Menace, my stool pattern has yet to adjust to the low carb, high protein and fat diet. Varying the amount of magnesium doesn't seem to make a lot of difference to the frequency of voiding. And, I'm still taking probiotics and digestive enzymes, as well as supplements for a sluggish liver. Seems like there is a lot of adjusting to do on this new diet. Perhaps age and the amount of lifetime carb consumption has something to do with it. :)

The Vegetarian Myth book has arrived, yet to read though. :)

 

[Guardian]

On the other hand, I would like to report a downside I'm having with the meat and fat diet. Although my energy levels are better and more constant (no swings in energy during the day) and it does not give me gas, my stomach feels very heavy most of the time. Like there is a heavy ball in my belly. I haven't noticed any harm from this so far, but it does bother me. I bought digestive enzymes today to check if they help. If anyone has dealt with this or has other ideas, I would be glad to hear them.

Are you drinking enough water and getting enough salt? I need LOTS of water to digest meat, and I get that canon ball in my belly feeling if I don't drink enough.

I drink about 60-80 ounces of water with every meal, and I sip at least another 40-60 ounces constantly between meals. From what I've seen all meat eaters take a stomach full of water after they eat a meal.

Salt is very important too, my food sits in my stomach too long without it. It does something to help break down the meat.

 

[RedFox]

I've been upping my fat intake lately and noticed some nausea at times. Today I over did it at breakfast and ate a lot of fat, after 2 hrs felt nausea followed by strong abdominal cramps

fwiw I had this happen a few weeks ago. What I discovered is the type of fat has an effect on me. Duck/goose fat (or fat on pork) I seem to be able to eat a lot of - with one exception being goose/duck fat that appears solid at room temperature, that will make me nauseous within half an hour.
Supermarket lard and tallow are ok, but I can't eat that much. Ghee seems to cause almost instant nausea now even if its a tiny amount. :(

On the other hand, I would like to report a downside I'm having with the meat and fat diet. Although my energy levels are better and more constant (no swings in energy during the day) and it does not give me gas, my stomach feels very heavy most of the time. Like there is a heavy ball in my belly. I haven't noticed any harm from this so far, but it does bother me. I bought digestive enzymes today to check if they help. If anyone has dealt with this or has other ideas, I would be glad to hear them.

Are you drinking enough water and getting enough salt? I need LOTS of water to digest meat, and I get that canon ball in my belly feeling if I don't drink enough.

I drink about 60-80 ounces of water with every meal, and I sip at least another 40-60 ounces constantly between meals. From what I've seen all meat eaters take a stomach full of water after they eat a meal.

Salt is very important too, my food sits in my stomach too long without it. It does something to help break down the meat.

Eating too much protein (lean beef) and not enough fat can do that to me. A good digestive enzyme (with ox bile) and/or lemon juice (either cooked with the meat or in water to drink) can help as both aid digestion.

 

[3DStudent]

Just curious, but do you drink any liquids before, during or after a meal? Because if you do, it does dilute digestive enzymes.

No, I don't drink anything. But I do take my morning pills with a little water and eat breakfast about 15 minutes later. I try to stick with the drink 30 minutes before, or an hour after, eating rule. And I don't understand Guardian's drinking of water. My understanding is that that would really dilute your stomach acid.

Out of curiosity, did the few months you mentioned coincided with a change in your diet?

Yeah, right around when I heard about the 72 gram guideline and cut out more carbs and added fat. Today wasn't bad either. I think that like Gimpy, even though I've taken ox bile for many months (over a year now), I may have sluggish liver.

 

[Guardian]

No, I don't drink anything. But I do take my morning pills with a little water and eat breakfast about 15 minutes later. I try to stick with the drink 30 minutes before, or an hour after, eating rule. And I don't understand Guardian's drinking of water. My understanding is that that would really dilute your stomach acid.

I've heard that too, but it works just the opposite for me, I NEED water when I eat or my food sits like a rock and I bloat.

When I've got to pick between what medical science says, and what nature shows...I'm gonna go with nature every time. I watch other meat eaters take a good long drink after they eat...why would my gut be different? It's about the same length, proportional to weight, as a wolves.

Eat, Drink, Rest, Work, Play ... repeat.

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

Are you drinking enough water and getting enough salt? I need LOTS of water to digest meat, and I get that canon ball in my belly feeling if I don't drink enough.

I drink about 60-80 ounces of water with every meal, and I sip at least another 40-60 ounces constantly between meals. From what I've seen all meat eaters take a stomach full of water after they eat a meal.

Salt is very important too, my food sits in my stomach too long without it. It does something to help break down the meat.

I try to drink enough water during the day but I usually try to not drink a lot together with meals, as I've heard a number of times that we should not drink liquids right before, during or right after meals (the half an hour rule). But maybe you're on to something, given that mainstream medical advice is usually not the best. I'm going to make some tests and let you know how it goes.

Regarding salt, I was actually wondering whether I should use more salt or no salt at all. Then I read the article Tips & tricks for starting (or restarting) low-carb Pt II, which states the importance of salt when on a low carb diet. And according to the Weston A. Price Foundation all primitive diets contain some salt. So I increased my salt intake since yesterday. Maybe it will also help with the heavy stomach.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

Eating too much protein (lean beef) and not enough fat can do that to me. A good digestive enzyme (with ox bile) and/or lemon juice (either cooked with the meat or in water to drink) can help as both aid digestion.

You're right about that RedFox, and I've learned it the hard way. When starting to a eat a lot of meat some months ago I wasn't aware of the importance of fat, so I ate my meat with just the little fat I was used to, because I always loved a steak with a crispy sidefat! And wow how that made my stomach heavy!

Now that I focus more on the fat than the meat itself (I may left some meat on the plate, but not the fat), things are better, but I still have the heavy stomach problem. By the way, increasing the amount of fat also helped A LOT with the constipation (together with magnesium and vit C).

The lemon juice seems to be a good idea. I'll try it with water during meals to see what happens (I also have to check if citrus goes well with my body).

Thanks!

 

[Aliana]

Eating too much protein (lean beef) and not enough fat can do that to me. A good digestive enzyme (with ox bile) and/or lemon juice (either cooked with the meat or in water to drink) can help as both aid digestion.

You're right about that RedFox, and I've learned it the hard way. When starting to a eat a lot of meat some months ago I wasn't aware of the importance of fat, so I ate my meat with just the little fat I was used to, because I always loved a steak with a crispy sidefat! And wow how that made my stomach heavy!

Now that I focus more on the fat than the meat itself (I may left some meat on the plate, but not the fat), things are better, but I still have the heavy stomach problem. By the way, increasing the amount of fat also helped A LOT with the constipation (together with magnesium and vit C).

The lemon juice seems to be a good idea. I'll try it with water during meals to see what happens (I also have to check if citrus goes well with my body).

Thanks!

I think that eating too much meat made my stomach heavy when I first started the changeover as well. I also realized I was not eating enough fat and so now I add a lot of extra bacon fat or butter when I cook meat that is lean. If I get enough fat, then I automatically eat less meat.

One of the things I also finally realized that when I was accustomed to eating a lot of vegetables, it took more bulk to feel satisfied and my stomach was used to having that fullness. Getting more of calories from fat means you get satiated and don't need as much bulk, but it sure takes some time to adjust. I am guilty of just inhaling food, mostly because of low-blood sugar (which has now improved a great deal). But because I still eat fast out of habit, it's easy to overeat. Digestive enzymes really help in those cases - of course, slowing down is a good idea too! :P I have also used ginger capsules at times when I had indigestion or would drink water with a bit of raw ginger in it for flavor. It is really soothing.

I am also drinking a LOT more water and try to drink lemon water every day - it really does seem to help if you can tolerate citrus.

I can see why this process takes a while - not only does the body have to adjust - but we have to throw out so many bad habits, incorrect assumptions and just completely reorient our psyches to a whole new way of looking at food/nutrition. It's amazing though!

 

[mcb]

No, I don't drink anything. But I do take my morning pills with a little water and eat breakfast about 15 minutes later. I try to stick with the drink 30 minutes before, or an hour after, eating rule. And I don't understand Guardian's drinking of water. My understanding is that that would really dilute your stomach acid.

I've heard that too, but it works just the opposite for me, I NEED water when I eat or my food sits like a rock and I bloat.

When I've got to pick between what medical science says, and what nature shows...I'm gonna go with nature every time. I watch other meat eaters take a good long drink after they eat...why would my gut be different? It's about the same length, proportional to weight, as a wolves.

Eat, Drink, Rest, Work, Play ... repeat.

:/

I learned about the "dilution problem" when I went vegan. Up until then I had often had water with meals. My two resident carnivores do like to have a good drink after a meal, so I guess they never got the word. One of them really gets into it, sticking her paw in the dish and splashing water around the room, and sitting there "singing" her drinking song. I think I might skip that part.

It's worth a try. I don't think I want to go back to drinking water with meals, though.

 

[mcb]

I am having further reactions, too. I stopped taking probiotics (I was just using up my supply anyway), cut the veggies down even further, and added digestive enzymes and bile salts. I was expecting something to happen, but it cleaned me out and I wasn't expecting that. It was good to see my weight drop to the lowest it has been for a long time, though (still rather high).

I am feeling reasonably well, now, although there are signs tonight of another round of something starting in my gut. After reading the "tips" articles, I think this is probably to be expected. It's nowhere near as bad as some of the things I have experienced in the past. The difference this time is that I feel as though I have some control over it, through what I choose to eat.

 

[Laura]

I am having further reactions, too. I stopped taking probiotics (I was just using up my supply anyway), cut the veggies down even further, and added digestive enzymes and bile salts. I was expecting something to happen, but it cleaned me out and I wasn't expecting that. It was good to see my weight drop to the lowest it has been for a long time, though (still rather high).

I am feeling reasonably well, now, although there are signs tonight of another round of something starting in my gut. After reading the "tips" articles, I think this is probably to be expected. It's nowhere near as bad as some of the things I have experienced in the past. The difference this time is that I feel as though I have some control over it, through what I choose to eat.

It's definitely a daily observation and adjustment process to find out what works and makes you comfortable. Main thing I am happy about now is that everything moves through without bloating, gas or long digestive times. I still occasionally take a digestive enzyme, but I think my liver must be back online.

Last night we had pork burgers with extra fat ground in and a half sweet-potato to soak up a lot of ghee. That was about right for me.

 

[Psalehesost]

No, I don't drink anything. But I do take my morning pills with a little water and eat breakfast about 15 minutes later. I try to stick with the drink 30 minutes before, or an hour after, eating rule. And I don't understand Guardian's drinking of water. My understanding is that that would really dilute your stomach acid.

I've heard that too, but it works just the opposite for me, I NEED water when I eat or my food sits like a rock and I bloat.

When I've got to pick between what medical science says, and what nature shows...I'm gonna go with nature every time. I watch other meat eaters take a good long drink after they eat...why would my gut be different? It's about the same length, proportional to weight, as a wolves.

Eat, Drink, Rest, Work, Play ... repeat.

:/

I learned about the "dilution problem" when I went vegan. Up until then I had often had water with meals. My two resident carnivores do like to have a good drink after a meal, so I guess they never got the word. One of them really gets into it, sticking her paw in the dish and splashing water around the room, and sitting there "singing" her drinking song. I think I might skip that part.

It's worth a try. I don't think I want to go back to drinking water with meals, though.

I read something on the forum before - can't find it now, have searched - about water and digestion. In short, what was said was that the idea that you shouldn't drink with your meals is bogus, and that if you don't, the body will simply have to work hard to extract water from its fluids and pump it into the stomach to accomplish the same thing - the right fluidity in that digested. Drinking a moderate amount of water with a meal, then, simply saves the body some work and dehydration - or is an essential help if it can't do that work properly.

 

[Gertrudes]

I read something on the forum before - can't find it now, have searched - about water and digestion. In short, what was said was that the idea that you shouldn't drink with your meals is bogus, and that if you don't, the body will simply have to work hard to extract water from its fluids and pump it into the stomach to accomplish the same thing - the right fluidity in that digested. Drinking a moderate amount of water with a meal, then, simply saves the body some work and dehydration - or is an essential help if it can't do that work properly.

I've also been ignoring the "don't drink water" theory with meals. I don't think I could not drink water, I'm too thirsty and if I don't drink all I can think of is water, water, water.... so that for me is definitely a sign of needing water intake with meals.

 

[Gertrudes]

I've been upping my fat intake lately and noticed some nausea at times. Today I over did it at breakfast and ate a lot of fat, after 2 hrs felt nausea followed by strong abdominal cramps

fwiw I had this happen a few weeks ago. What I discovered is the type of fat has an effect on me. Duck/goose fat (or fat on pork) I seem to be able to eat a lot of - with one exception being goose/duck fat that appears solid at room temperature, that will make me nauseous within half an hour.
Supermarket lard and tallow are ok, but I can't eat that much. Ghee seems to cause almost instant nausea now even if its a tiny amount. :(

Yes, I do remember you saying you had problems with the type of fat. I need to be watchful with that, so far I had problems with Ghee, coconut oil, and the fat from the fatty meat I cooked with no added fat. I don't seem to have had problems with fat that is solid though, only when it is liquid. But still not sure, it needs more exploring.

Out of curiosity, did the few months you mentioned coincided with a change in your diet?

Yeah, right around when I heard about the 72 gram guideline and cut out more carbs and added fat. Today wasn't bad either. I think that like Gimpy, even though I've taken ox bile for many months (over a year now), I may have sluggish liver.

The same happened with me, although in my case that also coincided with the start of the candida protocol.
Last year I also got a period of a few months were I got extremely bloated. This started around the time when I began the USD, and cut down strongly on carbs. However, at the same time I was going through a very stressful period and I had put the bloating down to the stress. My symptoms normalized again with 2 events: I regained my emotional stability, and an increased intake of carbs. So I don't know what did what.

On a side, note, my bloating has disappeared over the past couple of days (hurray!). First I started taking a product called oxy cleanse, that helped but I was still bloated, and then I started taking potassium, aloe vera and peppermint gels. That really helped, and I'm no longer constipated. It is still early stages though, so let's see if the bloating returns.
I don't know whether any of the above products can help you 3D Student, but I've posted it just in case.