The Vegetarian Myth

Laura said:
Dunno. But, my suggestion to you is this: if you live in France, (...) we strongly urge people to consult their own doctors before undertaking any dietary changes or adding supplements to their diet.

Now, regarding your question above: if it was me, and I had a bad experience taking anything, I would stop taking it. I had a similar result to what you describe using a highly recommended colon cleansing product. It turned out to be loaded with psyllium husks and I just can't tolerate seeds of any kind.
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Thank you Laura. I laughed and was sad at the same time reading your response. Don't waist time with the warning protocol, I declare I have read the disclaimer for French citizens. There's no way to take me to the doctors.
The "if it was me" beginning is perfect.

The C seems to be vital in high carb diets that make us sick.
It's with the fat diet that the real elimination diet seems to begin.
There are new veggies I can't tolerate either. I had to throw away a whole bone-tongue broth because some veggies I had put in it made me too sick. It never happened before.
The C is said to be made from glucose, that comes from wheat or maize. So if we cannot tolerate seeds, perhaps there's no wonder. Lemon seeds are still ok though...

Danse la vie
 
Laura said:
dugdeep said:
Yeah, I can't remember if I was quoting or speculating, but it does make sense. Since, on a low-carb diet, you're not taking in nearly as much carbohydrate, you're going to get a lot more vitamin C since there's not as much glucose to compete for uptake. From personal experience, I found my bowel tolerance for vit. C reduced big-time once I cut the carbs. I was taking 5g or more at a time while on carbs, now I'll get a gurgly stomach at 3g (last I checked).
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Just want to chime in here "ME TOO!" For awhile there, we were using the bowel tolerance to sort of gauge how much toxicity was present, how sick a person was, etc. We must be a LOT better because none of us can tolerate loads of vitamin C anymore!
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Ah-ha! Me too! This info is good to find out.
btw, does anyone else still get stopped up? I still do, about once a week, and I cannot tolerate the Vit C amounts I was taking, so I just take a little more magnesium when that happens, but I would say my bowels have not regulated yet.
On days when I have 2 or more movements, it feels like that's how it should be every day. But mostly I have one movement a day--in the morning, and not a whole lot comes out.
Maybe this takes a lot longer than I thought, or I am normal and don't know it. Still testing things out.
I am eating more fat, a little less protein and very little carbs. Supplements are: Omega 3's, postassium, CoQ10, mag, calcium, L-carnitine, L-glutamine and a little Vit C (500g/day.)
 
Laura said:
dugdeep said:
Yeah, I can't remember if I was quoting or speculating, but it does make sense. Since, on a low-carb diet, you're not taking in nearly as much carbohydrate, you're going to get a lot more vitamin C since there's not as much glucose to compete for uptake. From personal experience, I found my bowel tolerance for vit. C reduced big-time once I cut the carbs. I was taking 5g or more at a time while on carbs, now I'll get a gurgly stomach at 3g (last I checked).
Click to expand...

Just want to chime in here "ME TOO!" For awhile there, we were using the bowel tolerance to sort of gauge how much toxicity was present, how sick a person was, etc. We must be a LOT better because none of us can tolerate loads of vitamin C anymore!
Click to expand...

Having read of this vitamin C stomach gurgle - and also the related use of vitamin C when constipated - somewhere around a month ago, I tried it out - never before having experienced any such "effects", but at that time finding myself in the need. So I had a lot more vitamin C than usual (plain ascorbic acid powder in water), then waited a while - and then repeated, etc. - after hours, not so long after reaching around 60 grams of vitamin C, a very slight gurgle could finally be heard. Not too long after, in reaching - I think - about 67 grams, then things finally got going - and kept going for the day and part of the next day.

I'd begun feeling a bit strange - much like when doing the DMSA detox some of the first times - before reaching that point; then, for over 24 hours I ate or drank nothing, felt a bit weak and peculiar - and in the end came out better than ever.

Since then, my tolerance is markedly lower (much more normal), though sometimes still a bit greater than what's commonly reported here.
 
Psalehesost said:
Having read of this vitamin C stomach gurgle - and also the related use of vitamin C when constipated - somewhere around a month ago, I tried it out - never before having experienced any such "effects", but at that time finding myself in the need. So I had a lot more vitamin C than usual (plain ascorbic acid powder in water), then waited a while - and then repeated, etc. - after hours, not so long after reaching around 60 grams of vitamin C, a very slight gurgle could finally be heard. Not too long after, in reaching - I think - about 67 grams, then things finally got going - and kept going for the day and part of the next day.

I'd begun feeling a bit strange - much like when doing the DMSA detox some of the first times - before reaching that point; then, for over 24 hours I ate or drank nothing, felt a bit weak and peculiar - and in the end came out better than ever.

Since then, my tolerance is markedly lower (much more normal), though sometimes still a bit greater than what's commonly reported here.
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Holy smokes! 67 grams!? Wow. I've never heard of anyone taking that much outside of being really, really sick. I wonder if your body was in real need of it for some reason. I can't think of what that reason might be, but I guess you required a mega-dose. Vitamin C is used for heavy metal chelation in some situations. I wonder if you were quite toxic for some reason?

Whatever the reason, I'm glad it made you feel better afterwords, Psalehesost. :)
 
dugdeep said:
Holy smokes! 67 grams!? Wow. I've never heard of anyone taking that much outside of being really, really sick. I wonder if your body was in real need of it for some reason. I can't think of what that reason might be, but I guess you required a mega-dose. Vitamin C is used for heavy metal chelation in some situations. I wonder if you were quite toxic for some reason?

Whatever the reason, I'm glad it made you feel better afterwords, Psalehesost. :)
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Looking at what came out back then (mainly lots of - at first and for some time - almost black liquid), I guess there was the need for a real gut cleansing. I also mentioned that I began to feel similar (and this impact was much quicker than the other "reaction") to the way I did some of the first times I did DMSA detox - sensory impressions feeling more acute and almost a bit overwhelming, and at the same time (in another way) there is a bit of a distance.

I'm also not completely sure what the real tolerance was, because my later experience has been that it can sometimes (not always) take a number of hours before I notice clearly if tolerance was really exceeded or not - though even then, gurgling starts more promptly before that, but in the above-mentioned case that didn't happen until having about 60 grams.
 
Wow! Like Dugdeep, I think you must have needed a serious detox! I've taken up to 25/30 grams when very sick, and others in the house have taken doses up near 100 grams when deathly ill, but my usual "I'm sick, need vit C" level is about 15 grams and daily is about 3 to 5.

Thing is, it DOES work and it does seem to be a sort of indicator of how badly one needs it by the amount that can be taken before the "action" starts. My view is that anyone who says "it doesn't work" or "made me constipated" just simply hasn't reached bowel tolerance. They seem to be afraid of it. Heck, I was too until I witnessed it do literal miracles.
 
I´m almost done with the LWB thread and have started going through this one.

As for my C vit. experience, I always wondered why I never feel any gurgle in my gut when taking it, which is a pure ascorbic powder form, 1-2 grs/day and up to 3 grs. very rarely. If I would increase it, I´d get diarrhea, taking Mag amount in consideration too. Now, each time I take it, I get such a strong uplifting effect on my general health and mental state that I often wish I could take more. I´m wondering if this could be due to the "Manitou" cigarettes I´m smoking, which I don´t trust too much as I don´t see any real difference with other current brands (no organic cigarettes available in Spain), even when it says to contain no additives. I think it still has toxins that could explain the negative influence, specially on my gut and throat. When I wake up in the morning, I feel a knot in my gut and sore throat that disappear for the rest of the day as soon as I take this C vit. Moreover, I´ve upped my cigarettes consumption with 5 more cigarettes per day since I started the high fat/low carb diet 3 weeks ago, which has increased a bit the gut and throat sensitivity at awakening. I´m taking all the recommended supplements for the gut on and off for almost 2 years now but I also think that I probably never have sufficiently detoxed my body, (I was told to have arthrosis at 18 and calcium deposit some years ago), and decided not repeating twice the DMSA protocol for caution.

I know it would be easier to have some medical advise, but I just can´t rely anymore on them based on my experiences, stop - if there were a thread about personal experiences with doctors (assuming there isn't), we would only expose ourselves in our truth quest!

This positive surge reaction from the C vit. is what I´m trying to identify, where does it point at? It would be so fine to receive your comments!
 
Laura said:
Thing is, it DOES work and it does seem to be a sort of indicator of how badly one needs it by the amount that can be taken before the "action" starts. My view is that anyone who says "it doesn't work" or "made me constipated" just simply hasn't reached bowel tolerance. They seem to be afraid of it. Heck, I was too until I witnessed it do literal miracles.
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It sure does. A few years ago my sister was seriously poisoned by something. She could not move her body without great pain and effort. All she could do was take massive doses of C for two days (easily 100 grams/day). No bowel disturbance but the C cleared out her system.
 
Psalehesost said:
I'm also not completely sure what the real tolerance was, because my later experience has been that it can sometimes (not always) take a number of hours before I notice clearly if tolerance was really exceeded or not - though even then, gurgling starts more promptly before that, but in the above-mentioned case that didn't happen until having about 60 grams.
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In my experience, the stomach gurgle is the sign that you've reached tolerance, even if it takes awhile after that before you "go". Once the gurgling starts, I stop with the vit. C, not even finishing off the glass I'm drinking. This method has always worked for me. Others experiences may differ, of course.
 
ok so i just read this article that talks about foods to eat to enhance your pineal gland...
http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/foods_that_feed_the_pineal_gland

and then I get to the end and it talks about being a vegan.

"The proper foods can positively affect your pineal gland but you can also activate your pineal gland by eating more of a raw foods, vegan, or vegetarian diet, running an ozone machine in your home to clean up the air in your home, and drinking filtered water. As much as the pineal gland needs sunlight, it also needs to produce enough serotonin to be activated so that it can increase its psychic awareness therefore serotonin is produced when the brain is asleep and therefore sleeping in a very dark room is extremely nourishing for the pineal gland as well. Foods that produce serotonin are almonds, bananas, hot peppers, rice, potatoes, and black-eyed peas and when consumed can also nourish and feed the pineal gland as well."


this seems like a bunch of hog wash to me, but i'm curious what others thinkg...
If you're following a meat based diet, how does this effect your pineal gland? I thought fish was good for you??
 
anart said:
LadyRodgers said:
this seems like a bunch of hog wash to me, but i'm curious what others thinkg...
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I agree with you...
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Yeah. The biological precursor of serotonin is tryptophan, which is too rare in plants to support adequate serotonin production. You would have to eat so much plants, and deal with all the fallout (from antinutrients, insulin surges, and their associated biochemical mahem) in the process.

Lierre Keith even related in stories that many vegans are sugar-addicted because high insulin levels were needed to let the little tryptophan there was cross the blood-brain barrier unimpeded and cause a brief spike in serotonin. Depression was a prevalent and yet tragically preventable symptom among the vegans as well, due to the brain's continuous starvation of essential amino acids: something Keith lost over of a decade of her life to. :(
 
I finished The Vegetarian Myth a few days ago, and think that as many as possible should read this book.

It addresses a lot of questions from the environmental to the health related, and Lierre Keith writes excellent. Very easy to read and to follow the logic.

I agree that the last chapter, "To save the world", differed from the rest. (Maybe it's added rather lately, without so much time to work on it. I do not know. The previous chapters, however, makes the book worth reading. Indeed!)

I didn't know that altogether 98 % of the prairie has been destroyed, giving way to agriculture. I knew it was a lot, but that is almost all of it!

Right now I have started on Wheat Belly (William Davis), which tells a similar story regarding health, although it mainly has focus on wheat and gluten. It's highly interesting that wheat gives blood sugar spikes higher than table sugar, because the starch in wheat (amylopectin A) is so easily degradable in our intestines. The information on exorphins binding to receptors in the brain and the relationship to schizophrenia is also worth reading, and I have learned more about gluten. Never eating it again!
 
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