The Vegetarian Myth

Laura said:
Chacara said:
May I ask you about how much of Vit C you take daily? I'm still breastfeeding, but I think Vit C can be OK in my case. I know that its dosage is very individual. But how much, you think, I could start with? As to other supplements, I'm concerned about trying them before stopping breastfeeding.

If it were me in your situation, I would be taking at least a gram a day and see how baby likes that. If there is no upset in the milk, then I would up it to 2 grams, wait and see, then increase incrementally. But, that's just what I would do.

Thank you for the advice! Increasing gradually my intake of Vit C (with no apparent bad impact on the milk quality), I've come to up to 5 g/day. My only doubt is should it be taken in a few takes during the day or can be taken just once? Also, before or after the meal (if it matters)?

All this time I was buying Vit C locally depending on what was available at the moment and the choice is very limited here. Normally, it was in tablets and made by different manufacturers, but now I think it's better to keep taking just one and the same product (for ex., this one: http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/ProductsbyCategory/Category/M003656.htm?cat=Vitamins) to avoid quality discrepancy. Unfortunately, I have no plastic card, so cannot order stuff from overseas. Also, the most of websites just do not ship articles here. However, I'll try to ask a friend of mine to order Vit C in quantity for me, so I can have a stock for me and my family.
 
Chacara said:
Laura said:
Chacara said:
May I ask you about how much of Vit C you take daily? I'm still breastfeeding, but I think Vit C can be OK in my case. I know that its dosage is very individual. But how much, you think, I could start with? As to other supplements, I'm concerned about trying them before stopping breastfeeding.

If it were me in your situation, I would be taking at least a gram a day and see how baby likes that. If there is no upset in the milk, then I would up it to 2 grams, wait and see, then increase incrementally. But, that's just what I would do.

Thank you for the advice! Increasing gradually my intake of Vit C (with no apparent bad impact on the milk quality), I've come to up to 5 g/day. My only doubt is should it be taken in a few takes during the day or can be taken just once? Also, before or after the meal (if it matters)?

I am asking these questions because I was feeling nausea when taking 4-5 g/day in one take. So I'm not sure if it was due to taking a big dose at once (instead of dividing it in a few takes during the day) or due to a probable poor quality of my Vit C tablets? Anyway, I've suspended it for now and trying to order ascorbic acid powder recommended here.

Dear Administrator, is it possible to merge this my post with the Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) topic? Thank you in advance!
 
Chacara said:
Chacara said:
Laura said:
Chacara said:
May I ask you about how much of Vit C you take daily? I'm still breastfeeding, but I think Vit C can be OK in my case. I know that its dosage is very individual. But how much, you think, I could start with? As to other supplements, I'm concerned about trying them before stopping breastfeeding.

If it were me in your situation, I would be taking at least a gram a day and see how baby likes that. If there is no upset in the milk, then I would up it to 2 grams, wait and see, then increase incrementally. But, that's just what I would do.

Thank you for the advice! Increasing gradually my intake of Vit C (with no apparent bad impact on the milk quality), I've come to up to 5 g/day. My only doubt is should it be taken in a few takes during the day or can be taken just once? Also, before or after the meal (if it matters)?

I am asking these questions because I was feeling nausea when taking 4-5 g/day in one take. So I'm not sure if it was due to taking a big dose at once (instead of dividing it in a few takes during the day) or due to a probable poor quality of my Vit C tablets? Anyway, I've suspended it for now and trying to order ascorbic acid powder recommended here.

Dear Administrator, is it possible to merge this my post with the Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) topic? Thank you in advance!

I wouldn't take that large a dose all at once.

You can take either 1 gram or 1/2 gram every 1/2 hour to an hour to see how much your system can handle. When you are sick, your body needs much more and will tolerate as much as it needs. I've actually taken 22 grams a day and others have taken much, much more when the need arises.

When I am taking a lot of ascorbic acid, I can take a couple of grams at a time. It all depends on what your body needs. Once I know how much I need to take, I spread it out over the day.
 
Yes, the expert advice is to only take Vitamin C like one or two grams at a time if you are following that sort of protocol. In the case where it is being done for serious therapeutic reasons, the experts generally say to take that amount once an hour until the bowels give a signal (bubbling). Otherwise, they say one should just spread the doses out through the day.

For those who are strictly paleo, you might not need to be taking Vitamin C because the other system (discussed in this thread) kicks in quite well. Most of the people I know who are strict paleo no longer tolerate much vitamin C. I hardly take any supplements of any kind any more since the diet seems to take care of everything.
 
For those who are strictly paleo, you might not need to be taking Vitamin C because the other system (discussed in this thread) kicks in quite well. Most of the people I know who are strict paleo no longer tolerate much vitamin C. I hardly take any supplements of any kind any more since the diet seems to take care of everything.

The supplements I'm taking for adrenal fatigue have up to a gram of Vitamin C a day. I have to really spread them out to keep from being stuck in the bathroom. In light of the recent TED video on paleo diet for MS, I'm going to start adding in the greens, sulfur containing veggies, and organ meats to my current diet. (which is almost all meat, bacon fat, with maybe a cup of broccoli a day right now.) I take fish oil instead of eating any local fish, its almost impossible to find out where its from here.

Fwiw, I'm not making these changes to 'cure' anything. MS is a very individual disease, what works for one may never do anything for someone else. I figure I don't have anything to lose, so I'm going to have a go at it. ;D

Her recipe is:

3 cups greens
3 cups colored veggies (or berries)
3 cups sulfur containing veggies
Grass fed meat
Organ meats
Fish-fish oil, herring, wild caught salmon
Iodine from seaweed

Thoughts?
 
Gimpy said:
Fwiw, I'm not making these changes to 'cure' anything. MS is a very individual disease, what works for one may never do anything for someone else. I figure I don't have anything to lose, so I'm going to have a go at it. ;D

Her recipe is:

3 cups greens
3 cups colored veggies (or berries)
3 cups sulfur containing veggies
Grass fed meat
Organ meats
Fish-fish oil, herring, wild caught salmon
Iodine from seaweed

Thoughts?

Why not add in some things a little at a time and wait three days after each addition or increase to see how it affects you? You are doing so well and we know it takes time, but I don't see anything wrong with some gentle experimentation to see if you can improve anything. That does sound like WAY too many veggies, though. Maybe she was just never brave enough to cut them out and still thinks she needs them?
 
Gimpy said:
The supplements I'm taking for adrenal fatigue have up to a gram of Vitamin C a day. I have to really spread them out to keep from being stuck in the bathroom. In light of the recent TED video on paleo diet for MS, I'm going to start adding in the greens, sulfur containing veggies, and organ meats to my current diet. (which is almost all meat, bacon fat, with maybe a cup of broccoli a day right now.) I take fish oil instead of eating any local fish, its almost impossible to find out where its from here.

Not so sure if a cup of broccoli is okay, I could be wrong. I remember Psyche's post in which she mentioned that broccoli is one of the foods that can ''contribute to amino acid pool and thus can influence the functioning of the mTOR pathway.'' Maybe it can be replaced by another veggie? But then again, maybe a cup is not that much.

Also, why sulfur containing veggies? Why not take the sulfur needed from eggs (it's in the egg yolks) and just organ meats only? (That is, if you can consume eggs)

Gimpy said:
Her recipe is:

3 cups greens
3 cups colored veggies (or berries)
3 cups sulfur containing veggies
Grass fed meat
Organ meats
Fish-fish oil, herring, wild caught salmon
Iodine from seaweed

Thoughts?

Still not so sure on the veggies, sure looks like a lot! Veggies are pretty new to our diet, and to think that they need to be consumed in order to heal our bodies just sounds a bit strange to me (could be wrong here). Also, since the berries of today are cultivated in a way to make them sweeter, I don't see how that could be beneficial. There are many antioxidants in organ meats already and animal fats have antioxidant properties as well. Just my take on it, though! I agree that experimenting would be a good approach.
 
Yeah, I would say be careful and test each new food separately before adding it in large quantities. Also, doesn't eating everything on that list pretty much insure you'd be knocked out of ketosis? Like Oxajil said, you can get everything in the veggies from organ meats and lots of fatty pork, etc. And if you still need more sulfur for instance, you can supplement with MSM for a while.
 
I just wanted to add that in the video "The Oiling of America" Sally Fallon says that vegetables are a really recent addition to our diets. In a 1870's cookbook there's VERY little vegetables in any recipes but LOTS of animal fat in everything. And the very few vegetable recipes are all very well cooked and drowned in fat.

She also mentions that the first heart attack in the medical records in the U.S. was in 1921 and Crisco had come on the market in 1913.

Pastured / grass fed animals should have all the nutrients we need to be and remain healthy, judging by all the reliable data.
 
Laura said:
Gimpy said:
Fwiw, I'm not making these changes to 'cure' anything. MS is a very individual disease, what works for one may never do anything for someone else. I figure I don't have anything to lose, so I'm going to have a go at it. ;D

Her recipe is:

3 cups greens
3 cups colored veggies (or berries)
3 cups sulfur containing veggies
Grass fed meat
Organ meats
Fish-fish oil, herring, wild caught salmon
Iodine from seaweed

Thoughts?

Why not add in some things a little at a time and wait three days after each addition or increase to see how it affects you? You are doing so well and we know it takes time, but I don't see anything wrong with some gentle experimentation to see if you can improve anything. That does sound like WAY too many veggies, though. Maybe she was just never brave enough to cut them out and still thinks she needs them?

My same thoughts.

A good fatty bone broth every day is more nutritious and it is very satisfying. You can find even better sulfur sources in meats, seafood and organs. Organ meats of trusted quality are the way to go.
 
I begun to eat meat again from 2,5 months now (after have been a vegetarian during 4 years), at the same time I started the Eiriu-Eolas program, actually. Between 3 and 4 times per week at this moment, (the others days, I eat eggs or fish). From the same time (again), I do not eat any dairies (except one or twice by week for goat cheese), no more sugar, no more gluten, no more vegetale oils (except olive oil sometimes), only fat of duck or goose and virgin coconut oil. Apples and red berries for fruits.

The only one thing I always eat is oat: Oat bran (for fibers), oat flakes and the hulled grain of oat to cook cakes (without sugar but with one spoon of honey for all the cake and I also use rice flavour for them).
A kind of gluten in the oat:
The oat contains a protein, the avenine. Its composition is similar to that of the gliadine, the protein of the wheat and the constituent of the gluten. We attributed them thus for a long time the same properties and the same implication in the coeliac disease.
But, the oat contains only 15% of avenine while the wheat contains 40 in 50% of gliadine. The oat thus possesses less gluten than the wheat.
Maybe I will have to stop it at a moment, but for now, with less of 70g a day, I think I am in. I mean, nothing looks bad with me. I do not use to go to see the Doctor anymore, because I do not need him, I am never ill. Or I am without know it and without have any specifics symptoms.

I have to add that I have never developed food intolerance, that I am not sick (exception certainly for the Candida) and that this new "diet" seems to suit me.
In the perspective of this Candida, to detoxify myself, and waiting for to eat meat 3 times per day, I also use from 2,5 months, several alimentary complements as: Vit E, Vit D3, Vit C (triple C), Magnesium, Zinc, Chlorella, Spiruline, Omega3, Selenium, Silicea, Coq10, Ginkgo.

I also have to look what kind of vegetables are required here on the forum, because I am sure some of them are not so good for us... I stopped to eat any cabbages a long time ago, they gave me of serious pains to intestines and seemed to acidify my biological ground.

I should make tests of blood and urine next January, to establish a first personal "diagnosis". Would it be a good thing?
 
Psyche said:
Laura said:
Gimpy said:
Fwiw, I'm not making these changes to 'cure' anything. MS is a very individual disease, what works for one may never do anything for someone else. I figure I don't have anything to lose, so I'm going to have a go at it. ;D

Her recipe is:

3 cups greens
3 cups colored veggies (or berries)
3 cups sulfur containing veggies
Grass fed meat
Organ meats
Fish-fish oil, herring, wild caught salmon
Iodine from seaweed

Thoughts?

Why not add in some things a little at a time and wait three days after each addition or increase to see how it affects you? You are doing so well and we know it takes time, but I don't see anything wrong with some gentle experimentation to see if you can improve anything. That does sound like WAY too many veggies, though. Maybe she was just never brave enough to cut them out and still thinks she needs them?

My same thoughts.

A good fatty bone broth every day is more nutritious and it is very satisfying. You can find even better sulfur sources in meats, seafood and organs. Organ meats of trusted quality are the way to go.


I think going slow with a cup at a time or less will be the ticket. I'm also not convinced she needs all the greens, but it may be the difference between us...I've done paleo before and did very well on it, I don't think she ever tried it until she was flat out bedridden. Things are going so well for me at the moment, I'm also a little leery of screwing it all up. ;) Hubby is going to have a look at the video, too. He's not sure that many veggies will work for me either, but when I mentioned kale fried with bacon/fat his eyes lit up. :lol:

If things start to go bad, I'll go back to my bone broths. I haven't found organ meats I can stand other than tongue, or pig intestines, but Hubby is willing to experiment with more.
 
I happened to stumble on this forum and I find it very interesting. I really appreciate that people seem to be able to exchange ideas without biting each others head of. :)

Now reading this thread on the myth of vegetarianism (well some of it not all 40 pages :lol:) somehow doesn’t resonate with my experience of reality. I am a vegetarian for 20 years and feel great without meat, for several reasons.

I started to drop meat after having troubles digesting red meat, which I loved. Dropping red meat was just the start because pork wasn’t really appetizing to me, lamb was to expensive so I ate mostly chicken. Dropping meat altogether wasn’t difficult since I was already increasing vegetables, beans, and dairy products in my diet.

Looking at dietary habits of different nations I have come to realize that diet is a little bit like religion; you most often stick to what you are born into. Being a European and having traveled extensively I have seen people from different countries bring their own cuisine on their travels since they aren’t sure what kind of “food” they will get “abroad”.

It is my conviction that everyone has to choose what is best for him/her. What is good for one is not necessarily good for another, but to attribute vegetarianism to bad health is in my opinion based on ignorance. To be a vegetarian does not mean that you eat healthy; there is a lot of unhealthy vegetarian food. Just like meat eaters can eat healthy or unhealthy so can vegetarians.

To me the most important reason for being a vegetarian is that I feel twice as good after I eat vegetarian food compared to meat. This is because (healthy) vegetarian food is most often lighter than (healthy) meat diet and easier on the digestion. This translates into feeling more energetic, light and strong all day.

Another aspect is that I don’t need to kill an animal and eat it in order to live; it is only a question of taste. And for that reason I am not ready to condemn another living being to be tortured (through factory breeding) and killed to be devoured by me. I don’t feel it is right to create suffering (even in animals) so that I can enjoy a particular taste.

I believe (and you may disagree) that the violence that the animal is subject to, is transferred into the meat and those who eat it are consuming violence that is later manifested in them. In fact the whole of our society is fraught with violence and we don’t seem to notice it, in my opinion because of our consumption of meat.

These are only a few of my considerations in connection with vegetarianism vs. meat eating, It is worthy to remember that more than half of the world population is vegetarian; almost the whole of India and a large part of China is vegetarian. The vegetarian diet doesn’t seem to affect their ability to live prosperously.

As you already know meat is rich in protein and poor in vitamins; most of our vitamins come from other sources than meat. It is known in Yoga and other systems that food has to contain prana (energy) in order to be healthy. When an animal is killed its meat starts to rot and the prana disappears from it. In our intestines the meat continues its rotting process in 37 degrees C and 100% humidity, creating gasses and toxins that our body has to cope with. Vegetables are broken down trough another process, which is fermentation and does not create toxins during digestion.

This information that is not based on my own experience is learned from other people that have come to certain conclusions. Their findings resonate with my own experience with vegetarian food and meat. I therefore base my opinion on my own experience and the results others have reached through experimentation and research; provided that it is plausible and in context with what I already know.

But as I said before, everyone has to choose for him/her self, since the responsibility for our health rests only on our own shoulders.
 
FraterDov said:
Now reading this thread on the myth of vegetarianism (well some of it not all 40 pages :lol:) somehow doesn’t resonate with my experience of reality.

It may assist you to read the entire 40 pages of this thread in order to understand the stance/reasoning on vegetarianism held by the majority of members here. This forum is built on solid research, not opinions/conjecture. And, if you take the time to read through this thread in it's entirety you will discover just what that research is based upon.

FraterDov said:
I therefore base my opinion on my own experience and the results others have reached through experimentation and research; provided that it is plausible and in context with what I already know.

If you limit yourself to what "is plausible and in context with what I already know" then you can't really learn more than what you already think/know.

In addition, it is customary on this forum that new members introduce themselves in the Newbies section of the forum. No need for personal information, just a bit about yourself and how you found us.
 
1984 said:
FraterDov said:
Now reading this thread on the myth of vegetarianism (well some of it not all 40 pages :lol:) somehow doesn’t resonate with my experience of reality.

It may assist you to read the entire 40 pages of this thread in order to understand the stance/reasoning on vegetarianism held by the majority of members here. This forum is built on solid research, not opinions/conjecture. And, if you take the time to read through this thread in it's entirety you will discover just what that research is based upon.

FraterDov said:
I therefore base my opinion on my own experience and the results others have reached through experimentation and research; provided that it is plausible and in context with what I already know.

If you limit yourself to what "is plausible and in context with what I already know" then you can't really learn more than what you already think/know.

In addition, it is customary on this forum that new members introduce themselves in the Newbies section of the forum. No need for personal information, just a bit about yourself and how you found us.

Thank you for your advice. You might point me towards some of the “solid research” you mention so that I can better understand your point of view.

I am aware that it can be tiring to get a newbie asking questions or giving comments that have been answered and discussed on previous pages; I will do my best with the 40 pages but I don’t promise anything. :D

Requiring new information to be in context with something you know can be called a limit, but I feel that it saves me from falling prey for charlatans, and unsubstantiated claims, and as such this attitude has served me well.

Now I will visit the newbie section and tell you how I found you etc.
Thanks again for taking the trouble to answer.
 

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