The Vegetarian Myth

[Nienna]

Thanks Megan.

And thanks SeekinTruth. I went to the KD thread first and read the feedback including yours. I know you're right and will act on your advice.

Vic

Just so you know Vic, this diet "experiment" here on the forum was done over a couple of years so we went incrementally from the Standard American Diet to the Paleo diet to the Ketogenic diet. So for your sake, don't take on too much too fast. Your body is used to a vegetarian diet and needs to transition slowly. Maybe not as slow as we did, but a step by step procedure is most likely best. :)

 

[Tracy Anne]

My goodness this is all food for thought....pardon the pun. Just joined the fourm but have read about the keto/paleo diet for some time but havent put it into practice. Its daunting, the amount of material to read on this will take some time. Im off to get a copy of TVM. So far Im gluten free and eat fish/chicken a few times a week. The vegetarian option always sounded good to me and I WAS heading that way! Thank you every one for your posts Ive learnt alot and will investigate further.

 

[Vic]

the truth that vegetarians/vegans do nothing to help animals by not eating them, because the only people we comfort are ourselves in a delusion of self-righteousness and superiority.

It's exactly that. It's all the more frustrating that a lot of vegetarians have good intentions. They really make efforts to try to save the planet and alleviate animal's suffering.

Well intentioned but misguided, eh, Bellibaste. It's a yearning for an end to suffering, but a child-like yearning. When I first came into the forum I was amazed by the number of ex-vegetarians that responded to my 'I love animals and I will not eat them' declaration. Not only the number, but also the tone of the response - patient, tolerant, caring. That in itself has been a good lesson for me, especially when I find myself responding to those still programmed into the Vegetarian Myth coming to these forums.

 

[Vic]

Just so you know Vic, this diet "experiment" here on the forum was done over a couple of years so we went incrementally from the Standard American Diet to the Paleo diet to the Ketogenic diet. So for your sake, don't take on too much too fast. Your body is used to a vegetarian diet and needs to transition slowly. Maybe not as slow as we did, but a step by step procedure is most likely best. :)

Superb advice, Nienna. Those two carb-free days gave me a small taste of what can be gained. Or maybe it was the fact that I had started eating fish for a week before the zero-carb attempt. Either way it felt good -mentally and physically. Being back at work today after a week off, my dietary discipline failed, and I ate too many carbs. I now feel mentally sluggish.

So I'll plough on with the KD thread, LWB has been ordered, and I've downloaded Primal Body, Primal Mind to my iPhone. The only challenge is dragging myself away from The Wave book 5 to read all the dietary info. What a book!

 

[Aliana]

the truth that vegetarians/vegans do nothing to help animals by not eating them, because the only people we comfort are ourselves in a delusion of self-righteousness and superiority.

It's exactly that. It's all the more frustrating that a lot of vegetarians have good intentions. They really make efforts to try to save the planet and alleviate animal's suffering.

That is the saddest part - that most vegan/ vegetarians have the best intentions - both for their own health and the well-being of the planet. That the vegetarian "ideal" is still so widely promulgated in the media is just ridiculous...but i guess it serves the PTB agenda.

One of the ladies in my book club is recovering from cancer and has become a vegan with the misplaced notion that this is going to prevent a re-occurrence of the cancer and improve her overall health. She is roundly congratulated on her new diet by everyone else, and I just stay quiet. It does make me sad , but obviously I would not say anything otherwise in this situation as she has not asked for any other opinions. It's a struggle not to say something, but it is quite obvious she would not take kindly to it - so I keep my thoughts to myself.

 

[Vic]

Aleana, it's interesting that you mention about the issue of wanting to suggest ways of helping that lady in your book club, but at the same time respecting, or not violating, her free will. I am in a similar situation.

Several years ago my mum was told she had 'terminal' cancer - stage 4. She gave up meat and dairy, and went on an intense vegetable diet - broccoli especially. In less than a year she was cancer free and has remained so. She did resume eating meat, but kept off the dairy.

She has used soy milk instead. She does like a cup of tea, to say the least, so adding soy milk to several cups a day obviously adds up. Now, through The Vegetarian Myth, and this forum, I am aware of the dangers of soy. But I can't warn her can I? I was actually going to call her today, but your post reminded me about the free will aspect.

Hmm.

 

[Foxx]

Aleana, it's interesting that you mention about the issue of wanting to suggest ways of helping that lady in your book club, but at the same time respecting, or not violating, her free will. I am in a similar situation.

Several years ago my mum was told she had 'terminal' cancer - stage 4. She gave up meat and dairy, and went on an intense vegetable diet - broccoli especially. In less than a year she was cancer free and has remained so. She did resume eating meat, but kept off the dairy.

She has used soy milk instead. She does like a cup of tea, to say the least, so adding soy milk to several cups a day obviously adds up. Now, through The Vegetarian Myth, and this forum, I am aware of the dangers of soy. But I can't warn her can I? I was actually going to call her today, but your post reminded me about the free will aspect.

Hmm.

If she might be open to this knowledge, maybe you can give her The Vegetarian Myth as a gift. I personally think that's probably the best option if you think she'd read it and be interested in what it has to say. Or maybe just casually mentioning that you have been reading about some negative health aspects with soy and has she considered trying any of the other milk alternatives like Almond or Coconut, both of which are also tastier than soy milk. If she's interested, she'll probably be receptive and if not, pushing the issue will probably only make things worse. Not everyone cares about their health and likes (is addicted to) the things they eat, so any arguments in favor of better health will probably be lost on such individuals, but some people are looking for good information and just got lost somewhere along the way and so would be happy to hear such things.

Perhaps, though, it might be best to make some progress on your own dietary changes first to showcase the improvements you've had from changing your diet.

I'm not sure what's best for you or how open your mom might be to dietary recommendations, so those are just some possibilities that come to my mind.

 

[Aliana]

Aleana, it's interesting that you mention about the issue of wanting to suggest ways of helping that lady in your book club, but at the same time respecting, or not violating, her free will. I am in a similar situation.

Several years ago my mum was told she had 'terminal' cancer - stage 4. She gave up meat and dairy, and went on an intense vegetable diet - broccoli especially. In less than a year she was cancer free and has remained so. She did resume eating meat, but kept off the dairy.

She has used soy milk instead. She does like a cup of tea, to say the least, so adding soy milk to several cups a day obviously adds up. Now, through The Vegetarian Myth, and this forum, I am aware of the dangers of soy. But I can't warn her can I? I was actually going to call her today, but your post reminded me about the free will aspect.

Hmm.

If she might be open to this knowledge, maybe you can give her The Vegetarian Myth as a gift. I personally think that's probably the best option if you think she'd read it and be interested in what it has to say. Or maybe just casually mentioning that you have been reading about some negative health aspects with soy and has she considered trying any of the other milk alternatives like Almond or Coconut, both of which are also tastier than soy milk. If she's interested, she'll probably be receptive and if not, pushing the issue will probably only make things worse.
...

Perhaps, though, it might be best to make some progress on your own dietary changes first to showcase the improvements you've had from changing your diet.

Casually mentioning the new information you have found in your own search sounds like a good idea. Then you can see how she responds and go from there. Also - I do agree that when family members and friends start to notice changes in you, they will often be interested to know what you are doing, and sometimes more receptive. Then again, when they find out it involves giving up cherished "treats", they may shut their ears.

I have learned the hard way on that one..which is why I am keeping quiet with my book club acquaintance. I really get it that she is not open to hearing any contra-opinions on veganism! I am slowing getting over my "saviour program" - and it's about time! :P

 

[Vic]

I spoke to my Mum. She was fine and said she would think about it. What more can I ask :)

 

[thest0rm]

Hi, I can't really say I agree with the vegetarian myth. To say All vegetarians are traumatized beings trying to make up for their guilt... that seems liek the myth itself.

Some do it for health reasons, some actually think there is karma involved. Some just dont like the idea and will not stand for the idea of having to murder/sacrifice animals as it just doesn't fit their paradigm. Granted, it's hard for most to do the vegan diet right, that still doesn't mean that it's 'wrong'.

 

[nicklebleu]

Hi, I can't really say I agree with the vegetarian myth. To say All vegetarians are traumatized beings trying to make up for their guilt... that seems liek the myth itself.

Some do it for health reasons, some actually think there is karma involved. Some just dont like the idea and will not stand for the idea of having to murder/sacrifice animals as it just doesn't fit their paradigm. Granted, it's hard for most to do the vegan diet right, that still doesn't mean that it's 'wrong'.

It's not about "wrong" or "right" - it's about what fuel is best for your body. And in this department the vegan diet falls short on all fronts. That's not an opinion, that's a scientific fact.

The other side of the coin is that anyone can eat the way he or she likes, vegan/vegetarian or not, it's their choice, and this is not judging people. Of course one can ask himself, why - even in the face of scientific evidence to the contrary - people continue to follow a vegetarian life style, and I could well imagine, that a portion of these would be traumatized.

As always, "always" and "all" doesn't exist in real life ...

 

[thest0rm]

As I said, veganism, has been targetted a lot, gets a lot of flak and that's mainly due to the reality that most people doing it do it wrong.

Check out thesproutarian.com for some insight into the vegan diet. It'll be updated soon.

Regards

 

[Laura]

As I said, veganism, has been targetted a lot, gets a lot of flak and that's mainly due to the reality that most people doing it do it wrong.

Check out thesproutarian.com for some insight into the vegan diet. It'll be updated soon.

Regards

You may be sure that many of the individuals contributing to this thread have "done it right" - to their great detriment. And it's not true that veganism gets a lot of flak in general; it only comes into view when another person dies while practicing it.

Also, I notice from your intro: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,32336.msg440242.html#msg440242

That you are only here for the info on tobacco. So perhaps you should restrict yourself to those discussions if you aren't able to read the vast amount of research that has been done on diet by the members of this forum.

 

[thest0rm]

also, the book "Left in the Dark" may provide some insight.

Yes, the fruitarian diet may have been what is best for us but the fact is humans have fallen from grace a long time ago. Most can no longer do it and by far, we aren't adapted to it. Either we are hybrid beings or what, dont know, but I would say we couldn't do the fruit diet even if we made food forests. I mean technically maybe if we made the food forest correct, and we transformed earth back into the paradise it once was, like a so called "garden of eden" sure, maybe. But we dont know if modern human can even be adapted to the natural blueprint of a hominoid fruitarian because simply... humans are not really hominoids. Bigfoot, sasquatch, yeti etc. are hominoids. We are something else. Which means we may not eve have a natural diet for us... and this is the main reason why vegan diet is so hard for humans. ITs the reason why we have to process all the foods we eat, kill animals to eat even though it may be we dont have to. It's because we aren't necessarily adapted. But with the tools we have now, it can be possible to be vegan finally and if not, once again. Sprouting and fermenting are key. Traditional food processing methods are key. ANd keeping it raw, with fermenting, mechanical processing methods it's all possible.

 

[thest0rm]

As I said, veganism, has been targetted a lot, gets a lot of flak and that's mainly due to the reality that most people doing it do it wrong.

Check out thesproutarian.com for some insight into the vegan diet. It'll be updated soon.

Regards

You may be sure that many of the individuals contributing to this thread have "done it right" - to their great detriment. And it's not true that veganism gets a lot of flak in general; it only comes into view when another person dies while practicing it.

Also, I notice from your intro: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,32336.msg440242.html#msg440242

That you are only here for the info on tobacco. So perhaps you should restrict yourself to those discussions if you aren't able to read the vast amount of research that has been done on diet by the members of this forum.

Well, Ive done my own research as well. I could very well say you can probably restrict yourself to the discussion with me unless you've also read the vast amount of research I've done on the vegan diet.

And I've done a lot, a lot that is unconventional. Where exactly can I find a collection of the researches the forum members have done that really Proves that veganism doesn't work?

and tbh, Im not even going to try and change people's minds or provide much info anyways because you guys seem dead set on proving me wrong anyways as "your cup is full" so to speak.