The Vegetarian Myth

[thest0rm]

Greens also have free amino acids. Do enzymes count with protein content?

So and even so, I'm calculating everything on fitday.com with dry seeds, not sprouted. And alfalfa sprouts where I'll really get much more variety than alfalfa. And it all provides more than 100% RDA of all nutrients except for b12 and vitamin D. Which is not uncommon even in non-vegan diets.

 

[thest0rm]

Ive spent a Lot of time on fitday carefully calculating how much I would require of different kinds of seeds that I eat everyday, that would be cheapest and most efficient/convinient for me/my purposes.

I dont even sprout other things like grasses and other microgreens which I should be, so I can juice. I ony have about 1-2 lbs a day of the microgreens and I grow them in jars. If I grew them vertically, and included soil based microgreens that would take it to the max.

 

[Turgon]

thestOrm, can you formulate your thoughts into a singular post? Posting 4-5 in frenzied succession is coming off as a bit manic.

 

[shijing]

thestOrm, can you formulate your thoughts into a singular post? Posting 4-5 in frenzied succession is coming off as a bit manic.

I agree -- it would be considerate for you to put some thought into whatever you'd like to say and do it in one post, and it might also be a good exercise for you to slow down a bit instead of posting things rapidly as they occur to you.

 

[thest0rm]

Yes, I'll do my best. I often do this.

 

[Laura]

Yes, I'll do my best. I often do this.

Since we aren't interested in your diet and you don't have references to cite, I think we can end the discussion.

 

[JGeropoulas]

Hadn't seen that emoticon and it took a minute to decipher it because, due to the discussion topic, all I was seeing was a "cow" (i.e. beef or sacred cow). Then I realized it was a "dead horse" -- perfect!

 

[nicklebleu]

Hadn't seen that emoticon and it took a minute to decipher it because, due to the discussion topic, all I was seeing was a "cow" (i.e. beef or sacred cow). Then I realized it was a "dead horse" -- perfect!

Didn't see the dead horse!

Thought it was a smiley trying to flog a genie out of an oil lamp ....

 

[melatonin]

I went Vegan for a while after having my gallbladder removed, as my liver was reacting to meat/dairy.
I joined vegan facebook groups, and my observation was that people who are vegan use it as a crutch. They are vegan therefore they have "made it"....they have completed their mission in life.
Actually most vegans I found were atheists and didn't think there was any meaning to life, and I was surprised by this. Alot make a connection between rational thinking and being vegan.

I also found that there was a lot of anger transfer going on. Another interesting thing...a lot of vegans seemed to have had bad childhoods or were bisexual or gay...a greater percentage than you would usually find in a community.

A lot of them also forgot they used to eat meat themselves, and HATED meat eaters.

 

[Vic]

I went Vegan for a while after having my gallbladder removed, as my liver was reacting to meat/dairy.
I joined vegan facebook groups, and my observation was that people who are vegan use it as a crutch. They are vegan therefore they have "made it"....they have completed their mission in life.
Actually most vegans I found were atheists and didn't think there was any meaning to life, and I was surprised by this. Alot make a connection between rational thinking and being vegan.

I also found that there was a lot of anger transfer going on. Another interesting thing...a lot of vegans seemed to have had bad childhoods or were bisexual or gay...a greater percentage than you would usually find in a community.

A lot of them also forgot they used to eat meat themselves, and HATED meat eaters.

Sure seems like veganism doesn't agree with you then ;)

I don't think facebook can be regarded as a place to go to for an accurate picture of the psychological and sexual dynamics of vegans. Yes, the social networking site has an incredible number of users, but I suspect the number of vegans on there is a drop in the ocean in terms of the number of vegans in the world - not members of FB.

One of your points is interesting - "... a lot of vegans seemed to have had bad childhoods or were bisexual or gay ..." What are your thoughts on that, Melatonin?

How many is a lot?
Are you suggesting that people who have had bad childhoods turn vegan?
Are you also suggesting that not eating meat or dairy influences people's sexual preference in the direction of same sex partners?

Or are you thinking of the sexual issue in terms of social politics? Vegans being trendy and alternative ... perhaps just saying they are bisexual or gay for effect.

I didn't have a fantastic childhood, but better than some. It's possible there was something about that that resulted in my veganism - maybe as a sort of protest. But I didn't find myself starting to look at chaps. Maybe it takes longer than six years.

It would be good to see some real statistics on this.

You back on the meat, Melatonin? :D

 

[whitecoast]

the truth that vegetarians/vegans do nothing to help animals by not eating them, because the only people we comfort are ourselves in a delusion of self-righteousness and superiority.

It's exactly that. It's all the more frustrating that a lot of vegetarians have good intentions. They really make efforts to try to save the planet and alleviate animal's suffering.

But, like in many other domains the good will and good intentions of people is being channeled by lies and manipulations towards detrimental or, at best, illusory ends. The vegetarian myth is doubly detrimental: it destroys the planet (agriculture) and it destroys the individual (carbs, gluten, pseudo opioids, lectins, ...)

On the plus side, I still think vegetarianism/veganism is a step up from the standard American diet, which doesn't even attempt to care for the well being of other creatures. Like Keith says, with the vegetarians it's more a question of being misinformed. With the SADers, it's difficult to even get them to rouse to question the ethical implications of how we eat, much less to absorb the objective facts about what is healthy.

 

[hlat]

Maybe veganism is like the false alternative to the mainstream American diet, like new age is the false alternative to the 3 monotheistic religions. All methods to keep people trapped in the control system.

 

[Gimpy]

I went Vegan for a while after having my gallbladder removed, as my liver was reacting to meat/dairy.
I joined vegan facebook groups, and my observation was that people who are vegan use it as a crutch. They are vegan therefore they have "made it"....they have completed their mission in life.
Actually most vegans I found were atheists and didn't think there was any meaning to life, and I was surprised by this. Alot make a connection between rational thinking and being vegan.

I also found that there was a lot of anger transfer going on. Another interesting thing...a lot of vegans seemed to have had bad childhoods or were bisexual or gay...a greater percentage than you would usually find in a community.

A lot of them also forgot they used to eat meat themselves, and HATED meat eaters.

Sure seems like veganism doesn't agree with you then ;)

I don't think facebook can be regarded as a place to go to for an accurate picture of the psychological and sexual dynamics of vegans. Yes, the social networking site has an incredible number of users, but I suspect the number of vegans on there is a drop in the ocean in terms of the number of vegans in the world - not members of FB.

One of your points is interesting - "... a lot of vegans seemed to have had bad childhoods or were bisexual or gay ..." What are your thoughts on that, Melatonin?

How many is a lot?
Are you suggesting that people who have had bad childhoods turn vegan?
Are you also suggesting that not eating meat or dairy influences people's sexual preference in the direction of same sex partners?

Or are you thinking of the sexual issue in terms of social politics? Vegans being trendy and alternative ... perhaps just saying they are bisexual or gay for effect.

I didn't have a fantastic childhood, but better than some. It's possible there was something about that that resulted in my veganism - maybe as a sort of protest. But I didn't find myself starting to look at chaps. Maybe it takes longer than six years.

It would be good to see some real statistics on this.

You back on the meat, Melatonin? :D

I think you're skating a fine line towards picking an argument Strawman. Lot of irony there.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Maybe veganism is like the false alternative to the mainstream American diet, like new age is the false alternative to the 3 monotheistic religions. All methods to keep people trapped in the control system.

Yup, that's pretty much my take on it, as well.

 

[Vic]

I went Vegan for a while after having my gallbladder removed, as my liver was reacting to meat/dairy.
I joined vegan facebook groups, and my observation was that people who are vegan use it as a crutch. They are vegan therefore they have "made it"....they have completed their mission in life.
Actually most vegans I found were atheists and didn't think there was any meaning to life, and I was surprised by this. Alot make a connection between rational thinking and being vegan.

I also found that there was a lot of anger transfer going on. Another interesting thing...a lot of vegans seemed to have had bad childhoods or were bisexual or gay...a greater percentage than you would usually find in a community.

A lot of them also forgot they used to eat meat themselves, and HATED meat eaters.

Sure seems like veganism doesn't agree with you then ;)

I don't think facebook can be regarded as a place to go to for an accurate picture of the psychological and sexual dynamics of vegans. Yes, the social networking site has an incredible number of users, but I suspect the number of vegans on there is a drop in the ocean in terms of the number of vegans in the world - not members of FB.

One of your points is interesting - "... a lot of vegans seemed to have had bad childhoods or were bisexual or gay ..." What are your thoughts on that, Melatonin?

How many is a lot?
Are you suggesting that people who have had bad childhoods turn vegan?
Are you also suggesting that not eating meat or dairy influences people's sexual preference in the direction of same sex partners?

Or are you thinking of the sexual issue in terms of social politics? Vegans being trendy and alternative ... perhaps just saying they are bisexual or gay for effect.

I didn't have a fantastic childhood, but better than some. It's possible there was something about that that resulted in my veganism - maybe as a sort of protest. But I didn't find myself starting to look at chaps. Maybe it takes longer than six years.

It would be good to see some real statistics on this.

You back on the meat, Melatonin? :D

I think you're skating a fine line towards picking an argument Strawman. Lot of irony there.

Hi Gimpy.

My conscious intention was not to pick a fight. But yes, there is something wrong with my post. There are comments, or thought processes, in that post by Melatonin, that I felt uncomfortable with. I decided to use humour (irony) as a buffer to confrontation. This is where I went wrong. I realise that in adopting that approach I was being deceptive -I wasn't being honest. I should have been objectively direct, with external considering, in offering the reasons for my discomfort.

I apologise to Melatonin, and I thank you for bringing this to my attention.